| MTecknology | Heh... the devuan.org website is kinda sad. :/ | 00:55 |
|---|---|---|
| MTecknology | It's also not clear to me what dyne.org is. | 00:56 |
| MTecknology | To elaborate- the website feels loaded with a lot of technical information that could be stuck into more discrete areas. https://devuan.org/os/ <- This describes an init, barely explains why a simple init system is important, describes some of the rest of the system, mentions defaults, shares some technical information, but... at no point does it really explain the Devuan OS. | 01:00 |
| fsmithred | MTecknology, take a look at beta.devuan.org which will soon be the website. | 01:02 |
| MTecknology | I also just noticed there's no simple link in the header back to the home page. One is required to assume/guess that the devuan image portion of the <h1> section in meant for the return. | 01:03 |
| golinux | Try the logo | 01:03 |
| golinux | Duh . . . | 01:04 |
| MTecknology | ... right, please re-read that | 01:04 |
| fsmithred | don't bother reviewing that site any longer - it will soon be replaced with a better layout | 01:04 |
| * MTecknology is looking | 01:04 | |
| golinux | But the logo will still get you to home. It's been that way for 5 years | 01:05 |
| MTecknology | fsmithred: I don't see much difference between the two. I mean, certain things are obviously different, but it mostly seems like a change of colors. | 01:05 |
| MTecknology | golinux: Please re-read what I said. | 01:06 |
| golinux | The content has been totally reorganized | 01:06 |
| golinux | I've been busting my azz on it for weeks. | 01:06 |
| MTecknology | Do you want the opinion of someone that's fresh to it, or do you want to just tell me I'm wrong? | 01:07 |
| golinux | It's a significant improvement. At least most everyone thinks it is. | 01:07 |
| fsmithred | I'm pretty sure it's different - I can never find what I want on the old site, but I can with the new layout. | 01:07 |
| golinux | I don't care much any more as after 5 years, I'm retiring as soon a beowulf is released. | 01:08 |
| MTecknology | I was hoping devuan might be different than debian, but it looks like it's just more of the same. | 01:08 |
| fsmithred | about 99% the same | 01:08 |
| MTecknology | At least I was able to learn this early. :/ | 01:08 |
| fsmithred | we fork the packages that require systemd | 01:08 |
| fsmithred | and ban the ones that can't be forked | 01:09 |
| golinux | I am currently in the process of restructuring the code because no one else could deal with the rat's nest. I learned to live with it. (It wasn't my doing) | 01:09 |
| golinux | Thankfully gone | 01:10 |
| golinux | Byeeeeee | 01:10 |
| golinux | Looks like he was a 'buntard | 01:12 |
| Xenguy | Don't let the door hit you on the way out | 01:32 |
| Xenguy | .oO( Ungrateful wretch ) | 01:32 |
| sauron- | great, i can see tiktok videos from mpv/youtube-dl | 05:00 |
| Unit193 | My condolences. | 05:10 |
| ullet | debianfork would be a better place for it | 05:16 |
| ullet | #debianfork, that is | 05:16 |
| golinux | ullet: Thank you. :) | 05:17 |
| Guest59969 | can someone please help, I can't seem to launch gmusicbrowser in windowmaker on Devuan ASCII | 08:35 |
| Guest59969 | it just sits there at the bottom of the screen forever | 08:35 |
| Guest59969 | but I can't click on it | 08:35 |
| Guest59969 | I think there may be a bug or something | 08:38 |
| Guest59969 | also | 08:38 |
| Guest59969 | open Devuan ASCII, windowmaker doesn't show any XDG applications | 08:38 |
| Guest59969 | just hardcoded binaries | 08:38 |
| ullet | hi Guest59969. no experience with it here | 09:06 |
| Guest59969 | ok | 09:06 |
| ullet | if you have a display manager you can install an alternative WM like openbox and see if it breaks there also | 09:07 |
| ullet | makes it easy to try alternates out | 09:07 |
| Guest59969 | i doesn't break in the default xfwm | 09:07 |
| ullet | havent used windowmaker in ages. the irc channel is pretty dead too | 09:08 |
| Guest59969 | what do you use? afterstep? | 09:11 |
| ullet | not really using the dockapps anymore so | 09:13 |
| ullet | trying out different stuff | 09:13 |
| ullet | i like laying out my startup window positions with fluxbox | 09:13 |
| ullet | but xfce remembers positions now, which is actually one thing i really like | 09:13 |
| ullet | but there's other bits of xfce that aren't in such happy shape | 09:13 |
| ullet | i like the windowmaker dockapps ofc, but i never got around to finishing mine, so i soured on em | 09:14 |
| Guest59969 | ullet, how do I make a program that follows windowmaker themes | 09:18 |
| Guest59969 | it's not gtk2 | 09:18 |
| Guest59969 | or qt5 | 09:18 |
| Guest59969 | is gnustep a toolkit or a wm? | 09:18 |
| ullet | well it derives from nextstep i think | 09:19 |
| ullet | which was a full fledged os | 09:20 |
| ullet | and i don't know which subset of components gnustep provides | 09:20 |
| ullet | but i think one should think of it as both a gui toolkit and a desktop environment? | 09:20 |
| ullet | and a windowmanager | 09:20 |
| ullet | the heritage of it precedes GTK | 09:21 |
| Guest59969 | it's very efficient | 09:47 |
| Guest59969 | and fast | 09:47 |
| Guest59969 | and unlike DWM or MWM it actually looks comfortable for being a minimal wm | 09:48 |
| Guest59969 | I don't think i'd call it a DE | 09:49 |
| Guest59969 | it doesn't have it's own programs except for docklets | 09:49 |
| Guest59969 | which, seem to me more like a new window management paradigm than WM-specific programs | 09:49 |
| Guest59969 | supposedly it's interoperable with gnustep and afterstep | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | but wow | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | 4megs of ram usage | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | I'm very happy right now | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | super snappy | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | I can use this and not worry about how much ram things are taking | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | btw i figure it out | 09:50 |
| Guest59969 | I needed to 'attract the icons with the clip' and then right-click->launch gmusicbrowser | 09:51 |
| Guest59969 | nothing was broken in devuan | 09:52 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Guest59969: The jwm Debian package used to be rather minimalist until Stretch. Hope the maintainer could be persuaded to make a separate ‘tiny’ package for it (http://bugs.debian.org/960145.) | 09:55 |
| Guest59969 | windowmaker is fantastic | 10:25 |
| Guest59969 | I feel like back when I discovered Linux for the first time | 10:25 |
| Guest59969 | I'm might to try to figure out out to patch and compile a devuan kernel for MuQSS again tomorrow | 10:26 |
| ullet | Guest59969: let me know when you start please | 12:23 |
| ullet | maybe i can follow your procedure for building a kernel for VIM3 | 12:24 |
| specing | This is strange... qemu-img create -f qcow2 devuan.qcow 6G ... installer thinks it has 6.4GB available | 12:27 |
| ullet | GB vs GiB issue? | 12:40 |
| specing | it does explain it | 12:41 |
| specing | mkfs.btrfs reports 6GB | 12:41 |
| ullet | the first manufacturer to switch to decimal based 'megabytes' was Connor, for their tape drives | 12:45 |
| ullet | it was a deceptive, outrageous ploy | 12:45 |
| ullet | but as with other corruptions, the other manufacturers had a choice to resist it, or adopt it. they ended-up adopting it | 12:46 |
| specing | It's not deceptive at all | 12:50 |
| specing | G is a SI prefix standing for 1e9 | 12:50 |
| specing | It is deceptive to use GB to mean 1024**3 | 12:50 |
| koollman | manufacturers also don't use it as the SI unit though, it is a mix of both | 12:52 |
| koollman | (since hard drives do not have 500-bytes or 4000-bytes sectors, for example) | 12:53 |
| specing | Disk /dev/sda: 223.6 GiB, 240057409536 bytes, 468862128 sectors | 12:54 |
| specing | Disk model: CT240BX200SSD1 | 12:54 |
| specing | seems quite correct | 12:54 |
| koollman | specing: well, it is not 240*1e9. It is also not the same size as another disk that could also be sold as '240GB' | 12:55 |
| ullet | Connor broke standard industry units, around 1995. | 12:55 |
| ullet | 96 maybe | 12:56 |
| specing | koollman: it's close enough | 12:56 |
| koollman | specing: yeah, until you need to find a replacement for a raid or something else that will not tolerate much variation :) | 12:57 |
| specing | koollman: 0.02% away from truth | 12:57 |
| specing | btrfs has great tolerance | 12:57 |
| koollman | which is pretty big, in an industry that can make such exact and precise things | 12:57 |
| specing | But the error is on my side, which is good | 12:58 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | There actually /is/ a standard for HDD sizes. And from my limited perspective it seems to be followed as well. | 13:03 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Then, however, there's the # hdparm -N setting, which can reserve arbitrary portion of the usable disk space off its tail. It's not unheard of of BIOS making use of it. | 13:03 |
| linuxer_ | Hey people | 13:30 |
| linuxer_ | just joined jaromil | 13:30 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | (Curiously, I can't seem to find any reference on said standardization. Perhaps I got mistaken on that somehow. My disks still seem to have identical byte capacity for each claimed one.) | 13:40 |
| specing | Does this https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/Intro?action=show&redirect=IntroDebianPackaging | 15:08 |
| specing | also apply for Devuan packaging or is there another intro for that? | 15:08 |
| Guest59969 | can is use export in .xinitrc? | 15:11 |
| Guest59969 | how how would I set a environment varible before the window manager starts? | 15:12 |
| gnarface | specing: i don't know if that is up-to-date but the packaging process didn't change, correct. | 15:14 |
| gnarface | Guest59969: depends on whether you want it set for all users or not | 15:15 |
| Guest59969 | no just me | 15:16 |
| gnarface | if you're using a graphical login you might need to tell it to set the variable as you login then | 15:17 |
| gnarface | otherwise just use your ~/.bash_profile | 15:17 |
| gnarface | those will both set it at login not before, but i think that's what you actually want | 15:17 |
| gnarface | (the bash manpage has useful details) | 15:18 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Also pam_env(7). | 15:30 |
| openbsdtai123 | my solution to fix the bug of devuan ascii mkfs.ext2/ext3/... hanging and freezing is as follows (on ascii devuan). | 15:40 |
| openbsdtai123 | I have created 4 partitions, sda1 slackware amd64, sda2 openbsd, sda3 the ascii amd64 with virtualbox. I get lilo to boot the machine. slackware is very stable and I can format my disks. this way I can use multiboot and make use of devuan. If devuan fails, there is slackware that can format, and I put back the system with cp -a /devuan /media/mount_sda3 | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | specing, https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/wip/new-packaging-guide/maintainers | 16:06 |
| openbsdtai123 | nice, to see, ah instal�ling 2.2. debianpotato on virtualbox. I will try to get few files to put back on devuan/i386/amd64 using fltk. | 16:33 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: Why potato? | 16:35 |
| openbsdtai123 | Because I started there, with KDE on Debian at school | 16:36 |
| * iv4nshm4k0v has started Debian with Sarge... or perhaps rather Etch. | 16:36 | |
| openbsdtai123 | pff so late in time? | 16:36 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: I've started with KSI and Red Hat 5.2, with Fvwm2, WindowMaker, etc. | 16:37 |
| openbsdtai123 | I never got redhat 5 fully working at the time. | 16:37 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: I never got KDE to do anything of value for me. (Or GNOME FTM.) | 16:39 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | More to the point, I've since moved on. No idea what use I may find for RH5.2 now. (I'd rather use something supported... CP/M perhaps?) | 16:40 |
| openbsdtai123 | CP/M ? I am interested. what can you use or emulate, or do with cpm? | 16:41 |
| specing | fsmithred: I was planning on having a (public) repo for per-commit builds of an already existing package, for more or less private use | 16:43 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | openbsdtai123: Edit text files? Say, you may author prose, or code. I don't actually use it; but I've followed the folks at news:comp.os.cpm, and they do find uses. | 16:43 |
| specing | fsmithred: looks like the package in question is going to be auto-purged from debian in 6 days, R.I.P. | 16:44 |
| fsmithred | then you'll be building on your own machine. | 16:44 |
| specing | yes | 16:44 |
| fsmithred | which? | 16:44 |
| specing | fsmithred: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeorion | 16:44 |
| fsmithred | it's not clear when python2 will be dropped. It's still in ceres. | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | the linked message about it is almost 2 years old | 16:49 |
| specing | python 2 is immortal! | 16:53 |
| openbsdtai123 | would it be possible to cleanup the "mount" output in next gen of devuan? A mount (clean) output like slacware would be cool | 18:13 |
| fsmithred | For more robust and customizable output use findmnt(8) | 18:20 |
| openbsdtai123 | I use mount since unix opensource is there, I'd be happy that unix entity remains. | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | I don't think mount is going away any time soon. | 18:25 |
| openbsdtai123 | If debian goes direction of Ubuntu, there is no reason that devuan goes that way. | 18:26 |
| fsmithred | there are a couple of good reasons we don't change most of the packages in debian | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | 1. Most of them don't need it. (so far, so good) | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | 2. We need more devs if we fork more packages. Like 1-2 orders of magnitude more. | 18:28 |
| openbsdtai123 | that's sad to see a bit that debian - good debian operating system collapsed since systemd was introduced. | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | seems like a lot more stuff comes out of the box broken than used to be. | 18:31 |
| james1138 | Hello all. General question about Devuan ASCII and/or Beowulf. Has anyone tried installing it on a touch tablet?? The reason I ask is that with the self-quarantine - walking around the house with a tablet is a lot easier than walking around trying to carry a laptop (especially if one is spending "quality-time" in the bathroom). | 18:33 |
| furrywolf | should I ask why self-quarantine has any effect on the difficulty of carrying various devices? | 18:34 |
| fsmithred | quarantine increases the amount of time spent on devices. But I recommend not looking at the screen while you're walking to avoid certain health risks. | 18:48 |
| fsmithred | like falling down the stairs | 18:49 |
| Akuli | :D | 18:52 |
| ullet | disobeying the house arrest orders is the duty of everyone | 19:57 |
| fsmithred | huh? | 20:06 |
| fsmithred | nm, OT here | 20:07 |
| ullet | james1138: you can't type properly on a screen. get a droid4 with devuan instead. :) | 20:23 |
| james1138 | Thanx | 20:28 |
| ullet | images available | 20:38 |
| Guest59969 | How can I install an alternate GCC version in Devuan ASCII? | 21:50 |
| debdog | define 'alternate' | 21:55 |
| ullet | https://duckduckgo.com/html/?kp=-1&q=apt+debian+install+specific+version+of+a+package | 21:56 |
| debdog | even without that, debian/devuan provides several versions | 21:57 |
| debdog | managed by the 'alternatives' system | 21:57 |
| debdog | /etc/alternatives | 21:57 |
| Guest59969 | debdog, how to I access those multiple versions? | 22:00 |
| Guest59969 | I need access to a newer or older compiler | 22:00 |
| Guest59969 | because gcc 6 specificly produces bad builds | 22:00 |
| Guest59969 | works fine on gcc9 and 4 | 22:00 |
| ullet | Version: 4:9.2.1-3.1 this is version 4 or 9? | 22:01 |
| ullet | gcc -v says 8.3.0 | 22:02 |
| debdog | since older versions are kept during dist-upgrades, I am not certain, which versions a plain ASCII provides... | 22:03 |
| debdog | and it's not easy (for me) to filter and display versions in oldstable on https://packages.debian.org | 22:05 |
| Guest59969 | it seems like 6 | 22:05 |
| debdog | Guest59969: check wheter apt provides gcc-4* to gcc-9* | 22:05 |
| debdog | like "aptitude search gcc- | grep -e "-base"" | 22:06 |
| debdog | in case ASCII only provides 8 you'll either need to install packages from an older or a newer debian release. but they should™ be designed to easily coexist and be managable by the Alternatives system | 22:10 |
| systemdlete | trouble configuring usbview. It needs the usb devices file -- where is that located these days; the default no longer exists /sys/kernel/debug/usb/devices. Does usbview require some special modules or other configuration? | 22:33 |
| systemdlete | oh, I see. Needs usbdevfs | 22:34 |
| systemdlete | ? | 22:38 |
| systemdlete | no such type file system | 22:41 |
| systemdlete | hmmmm. udev. The program usbview looks to be rather old and maybe has not migrated to newer structures in the kernel? | 22:47 |
| gnarface | seems possible | 22:48 |
| gnarface | Guest59969: you can always debootstrap testing or unstable into a chroot and use the newer compilers in there | 22:49 |
| GLAT-agent | I'm selling GNU/Linux single user ($99) and volume ($49) licenses | 22:56 |
| ullet | me too | 22:56 |
| GLAT-agent | How much licenses did you sell | 22:57 |
| ullet | except i'm charging $98/$48 | 22:57 |
| GLAT-agent | Only Bitcoin is accepted | 22:57 |
| ullet | none yet. i just started | 22:57 |
| onefang | I'm giving them away for free. I never was any good at marketing. | 22:57 |
| ullet | hah drove off the competition | 22:58 |
| Guest59969 | gnarface, no i can't because then my resulting builds would use testing or unstable libraires when i want to use the binary for ascii | 22:59 |
| gnarface | Guest59969: well you can try backporting a newer gcc to ascii but it might be a futile exercise | 23:02 |
| Guest59969 | gnarface, did you make the red tk theme in beawulf? | 23:02 |
| glat-user | Hi. | 23:03 |
| gnarface | Guest59969: no i think that was golinux | 23:03 |
| glat-user | onefang: any free licenses left? | 23:03 |
| Guest59969 | golinux, did you base your theme off adwaita styles? | 23:03 |
| onefang | Should be plenty over at https://devuan.org/ | 23:04 |
| glat-user | onefang: where can I get my product key and COA? | 23:04 |
| onefang | https://files.devuan.org/ B-) | 23:05 |
| glat-user | Are they available on every image? | 23:06 |
| onefang | For more information, head over to #debianfork. | 23:06 |
| golinux | Guest59969: No. Adwaita totally sucks. Clearlooks-Phenix | 23:11 |
| Guest59969 | golinux, I'm confused then. Why to text input boxes look so rounded and bezeled? | 23:13 |
| Guest59969 | I thought that was only a carryover from adwaita bases | 23:13 |
| Guest59969 | FREEDOM | 23:28 |
| Guest59969 | and | 23:28 |
| Guest59969 | JUSTICE | 23:28 |
| Guest59969 | YESH | 23:28 |
| Guest59969 | (OLD MINECRAFT PAIN NOISE!) | 23:29 |
| golinux | Guest59969: clearlooks-phenix looks like it has always looked since I started skinning it for Devuan Jessie. | 23:35 |
| Guest59969 | golinux, have you used bluecurve-targerine? | 23:40 |
| golinux | Nope | 23:40 |
| Guest59969 | golinux, if I send you a tarball would you check it out? | 23:40 |
| golinux | probably not as I'm getting out of the theming business. A screenshot would be appreciated though | 23:43 |
| golinux | Couldn't find any on the net. | 23:43 |
| Guest59969 | golinux, i can send you a screenshot later | 23:43 |
| golinux | You probably wouldn't have a 32 bit tarball for jessie anyway. | 23:43 |
| Guest59969 | what are you talking about? | 23:44 |
| Guest59969 | gtk2 themes aren't binaries | 23:44 |
| Guest59969 | but a simple configuration file, and yes it works on 32j | 23:44 |
| golinux | <Guest59969> golinux, if I send you a tarball would you check it out? | 23:44 |
| Guest59969 | yes | 23:44 |
| golinux | I'll take a look a a screenie | 23:45 |
| golinux | afk | 23:46 |
| some_alex | hi | 23:46 |
| some_alex | any maintainers here? | 23:46 |
| golinux | Why? | 23:47 |
| some_alex | have a question about TLS and apt searvers | 23:47 |
| golinux | Just ask and will be answered when someone sees it. | 23:47 |
| some_alex | basically apt refuses to work with default devuan servers when I use HTTPS because the certificate is issues for a random server (such as devuan.packet-gain.de) while I'm trying to connect to deb.devuan.org | 23:49 |
| onefang | Correct. | 23:49 |
| some_alex | can this be fixed? | 23:49 |
| onefang | If you want to use HTTPS, pick a specific mirror that supports it. | 23:49 |
| onefang | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 23:50 |
| golinux | It is working properly | 23:50 |
| * golinux needs a nap | 23:50 | |
| golinux | bye | 23:50 |
| some_alex | onefang: I see, thanks | 23:50 |
| Guest59969 | some_alex, don't use https for mirror access | 23:50 |
| onefang | You are welcome. | 23:51 |
| Guest59969 | all the files are verified out of band by GnuPG | 23:51 |
| onefang | Sleep well golinux. | 23:51 |
| some_alex | Guest59969: I know we have GPG. Extra layer of encryption / authentication would never hurt, would it? | 23:52 |
| Guest59969 | yes it does | 23:55 |
| onefang | Most of the mirrors support HTTPS. I believe HTTPS is now default for apt. | 23:55 |
| Guest59969 | as you can see, mirror redirection and transparent proxy caching don't work when you use https | 23:55 |
| Walex | HTTPS is pointless for package downloads and is potentially quite expensive for package servers. | 23:56 |
| some_alex | Guest59969: how so? | 23:56 |
| some_alex | onefang: after devuan install default was http until I chnaged it | 23:56 |
| onefang | ASCII or Beowulf? | 23:57 |
| Guest59969 | not to mention https uses the X.509 authentication model, which is a terrible complex standard that has way to many points of failure and all this extra complexity is completely uneeded | 23:57 |
| some_alex | onefang: Beowulf beta2 | 23:58 |
| Guest59969 | betawulf | 23:59 |
| onefang | We might have fixed it then, I think it's Debian Buster that new defaults to HTTPS, and Beowulf is based on Buster. I could still be wrong. lol | 23:59 |
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