freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-05-15

fsmithredfrabbit, you can download the package, check integrity, install locally with dpkg00:37
frabbitfsmithred: hm.. good idea.. but to late now xD00:44
frabbiti already updated it a few minutes after release00:44
frabbitdunno yesterday at 7 am or something...00:44
tuxd3vhello all04:35
tuxd3vI am trying to build a 4G router, and come across https://pcengines.ch04:36
tuxd3vdoes any one has experience with their boards?04:36
tuxd3vthey run a amd64 cpu04:36
tuxd3vQuad Core@1Ghz04:36
tuxd3vcoreboot bootloader, and maybe I could stick devuan on it :)04:37
DonkeyHoteireportedly they run linux a lot more efficiently than they run bsd, but equally supported04:40
tuxd3vmy idea was a 2.4/5Ghz WIFI + 4G LTE + 3 Gigabit ports for some routing , dmz, and firewall04:41
tuxd3vI don't know if the cpu is enough, because I don't have any experience with them, and no idea on memory consumtion of the system..04:42
tuxd3vthey sell board with 2GB and 4GB04:43
DonkeyHoteicpu is nice for what it is but the big downside IMO is the lack of L2 cache04:48
stiltrFor reference, I'm running Devuan on an espressobin and it's handling being a router just fine.04:48
DonkeyHoteiespressobin is arm, and the above board is x86_6404:49
stiltrWow I read amd64 as arm64... I need more sleep.04:49
slvrI'm gpu shopping. Any suggestions for a well supported one? I'm looking at a radeon rx560 right now.04:53
tuxd3vstiltr, expressobin is a nice board, but it doesn't have the 3 mini-pcie ports I need :(04:56
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, does you think it will handle 2.4/5Ghz WIFI + 4G LTE trafic, and also some routing between 3xGigabit ethernet ports, with firewal running and such04:57
tuxd3vI mean handle it well, without trouble or capping the bandwith because its cpu is slower?04:58
tuxd3vI know what are the usual Ram sizes that a minimal linux has for arm64, but I don't know for amd64 :(04:59
DonkeyHoteituxd3v: how fast is your wan connection?04:59
tuxd3vdon't have a picture of the default base could boot usage04:59
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, it will be at least 150Mbit Download/50Mbit upload04:59
tuxd3v4g LTE05:00
DonkeyHoteii have symmetric gigabit and seriously looked at that board, ended up going with something intel-based05:00
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, so in your perpective, cpu will be bottlenecked..?05:02
tuxd3vits a 4 core, but I don't know if its more eficient than a 4 core ARM6405:02
DonkeyHoteiat symmetric gigabit it has little leeway from what i've heard05:03
DonkeyHoteiat 150Mb you're fine05:03
tuxd3vwhat is symmetric Gigabit?05:03
tuxd3v2 Gbit/s05:04
tuxd3v1 + 105:04
DonkeyHotei1000 down, 1000 up05:04
tuxd3vwell 150Mbit is the maximum of my modem05:04
tuxd3vI will be at around some 10 Mbit/s or so :D05:04
bgstack15does anyone have any problems with update-rc.d never returning?05:05
bgstack15"update-rc.d sssd enable" just hangs05:06
bgstack15same for certmonger05:06
tuxd3vbut of-course will be 2.4Ghz/5Ghz dedicated cards, which theoretically could push for something like ~2000Mbit, 2300Mbit, but for that to hapen it needs to consume or send data to internal interfaces, like the NAS05:07
tuxd3vbgstack15, what you get with 'update-rc.d sssd defaults'05:12
tuxd3vit could be related with the sssd service..05:12
bgstack15tuxd3v: update-rc.d sssd defaults operates fine05:12
bgstack15does update-rc.d execute the init script?05:12
tuxd3v'service sssd restart' :)05:13
bgstack15I don't want to restart the service. The ipa-client-install command wants to set the daemon to the defaults. I'm translating the hard-coded systemctl command (systemctl enable sssd.service) to update-rc.d sssd enable05:14
tuxd3vit should be enabledonly in init 2?05:15
tuxd3vif so:05:15
tuxd3v'update-rc.d sssd enable 2'05:15
bgstack15I don't even really care about what the defaults are. The command is going to run unless I hardcode my wrapper to not execute it.05:15
tuxd3vthat way it will be enabled in runlevel 205:15
bgstack15Has anyone heard of any update-rc.d commands that never return?05:15
tuxd3vdefaults is for runlevels 2,3,4,5, iirc05:16
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, you suggest intel instead, but I don´t know of any manufacturer that does this boards with intel atoms05:18
tuxd3vbgstack15, you can check if simlinks are generated correctly or not with:05:23
tuxd3v'find /etc/rc?.d -type l -name ???sssd -exec ls -l {} \;'05:23
bgstack15Thank you, theit looks like it was disabled last, but I'm in the midst of reinstalling/uninstalling freeipa client.05:24
bgstack15The problem is the update-rc.d command never returns to the prompt.05:24
bgstack15oh my05:25
bgstack15i found the problem05:25
bgstack15update-rc.d invokes /bin/systemctl, which is my wrapper that invokes update-rc.d...05:25
* bgstack15 has had enough for one day05:25
bgstack15thanks tuxd3v for the help! Come to find out, I shot myself in the foot, repeatedly.05:26
tuxd3vbgstack15, I sometimes shot against me too :)05:27
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, the other board producer is Bananapi with the r2, or r64, but they don't even have simcards in the board05:28
tuxd3vit they had, maybe I would buy r205:28
masonbgstack15: You haven't even seen the footcannons I encounter in my day job.05:30
bgstack15mason: you're scaring me, man05:32
tuxd3vDonkeyHotei, the GX-412TC@1Ghz has 2MB L2 cache total05:47
DonkeyHoteithat's not much06:00
tuxd3vI don't know of other option that permits me to have 3 mini-pcie card06:01
tuxd3v2.4Ghz + 5Ghz wIFI06:02
tuxd3vplus 4G LTE06:02
DonkeyHoteithat board has only 2 such slots btw06:02
DonkeyHoteithe 3rd is only msata06:02
tuxd3v1 can be obly deditaced to 4G06:02
tuxd3v1 can be dedicated to WIFI06:03
tuxd3vthe other can be for msata or wifi06:03
tuxd3vI believe06:03
tuxd3vI am not 100% sure..06:03
DonkeyHoteithey have two different variants with different pin routing06:04
DonkeyHoteicheck the schematics06:04
tuxd3vthe one I am chasing is the apu3c?06:05
tuxd3vit has 3 gigabit ethernet ports, and 3 ini-pcie ports06:05
tuxd3vini -> mini06:05
DonkeyHoteicompare the apu3 schematics for the slots to the apu206:06
tuxd3vbananapi has the r2, and the r64 but they don't even have simcards onboard :(06:06
tuxd3vapu2 cannot be used for this, has it obly has 2 m-pcie :)06:11
tuxd3vit needs to be apu306:11
openbsdt1i123it seems that slackware runs faster than devuan. is this behavior possible?11:19
golinuxHow is that a devuan support question?  It's not.  Just more useless trolling11:24
JorilAt the very least, a vague statement14:03
masonopenbsdt1i123: Slackware is WAY WAY faster. It's almost as fast as Gentoo. This is because Devuan doesn't funroll the loops.15:34
masonopenbsdt1i123: If you share the comparitive perf data you've collected we can give you more detail.15:34
masonopenbsdt1i123: Also, feel free to come join us at ##slackware, where you'll also find a lot of useful data on this comparative analysis you're doing.15:36
masonopenbsdt1i123: (Because then you can ask "wow, how are you guys so fassszzzt?")15:41
MinceRlol @ funroll-loops15:47
buZzslackware just cheats by doing -O9999 on all binaries15:51
golinuxAnd that still does not relate to Devuan support.18:33
nemoMinceR: I always loved the funroll-loops meme because it made me think of a rollercoaster18:38
nemomy home systems are devuan and gentoo and I love them both ☺18:38
nemoI used to run gentoo on my... P166 or P233, I forget exactly at this point. I think 166 with a whopping 96MiB of RAM, laptop.18:39
nemofinally gave up on that in like... 201018:39
golinuxGood grief, can y'all please get back on topic.  Take it to #debianfork18:42
slvrWhere do we see the list of rules for this chat room, and how are the rules modified? Is a sole person in charge or is it open to community input? I have some thoughts on how offtopic conversations could be better handled.18:55
furrywolfyou mean "golinux yells at you until you stop" isn't ideal?  :)19:01
golinuxAlso in the topic for this channel.19:02
slvrI'm on irssi and my term is 80ch wide, the last thing I see up there is
slvrthanks for the link, I'll write something up.19:02
golinuxFind something more productive to do and take it to the fork unless you have a support question.19:05
furrywolf"how do we modify devuan policies" seems like valid support question.19:08
golinuxOf all the things that need attention, that would be at the bottom of the list.19:08
golinuxDevelopers who read this channel, shouldn't be taxed with slogging through unrelated stupidity to find legitimate issues that need attention.19:11
slvrHmm well I'll have something ready later. Discussing it here I agree is offtopic.19:13
golinuxKnock yourself out19:15
specingmeep meep19:17
ejrhi. i am trying to get my microphone to work in my browser(s). it works in installed programs otherwise, but when browser applications (palemoon and ,more importantly, chromium) try to access the mic, it does not. I cannot grant it permissions to be accessed either. i assume it is somehow related to my system settings, but dont really know where to look20:14
ejrmy mic is unmuted in alsamixer20:14
ejr(btw, running beowulf)20:15
masonejr: The browser has to let you select a device.20:17
masonejr: Which is to say, the web app it's running has to let you select something.20:17
ejrit does let me select a device, but when i try to set the permissions from "Block" to "Ask" or "Allow" it switched immediately back to "Block"20:18
bgstack15palemoon does not support WebRTC, which is the normal way (nowadays) to get to a microphone input.20:24
bgstack15have you ensured that other applications can get to the mic, and are not currently using it when trying the browser?20:25
ejrbgstack15: yes, i actually just need it for chromium really, for the reason you stated.20:26
ejrand i am pretty sure no other application is using the mic, though i am not sure how to check (other than disabling most programs running)20:27
ejrah wait, maybe it's telegram, i did not quit that yet20:27
ejrnah, still doesnt work without telegram running20:29
bgstack15Can you try and see if it prompts you about the mic?20:33
ejrit actually complains right away that mic + cam access is not allowed (though cam works at the other site i was trying, jitsi meet)20:40
ejrah well, when i go on regardless, the cam works on that test site too...but not the mic20:40
ejr"NotAllowedError: Permission denied" is the error message for audi access20:41
bgstack15So in the same browser session though, jitsi meet will successfully use the microphone?20:51
ejrno, only the cam, not the mic20:52
slvris your user in the video group?20:53
slvrI think webcam permissions to /dev/video0 might be needed20:53
masonAudio should present as a separate device, no?20:54
slvrI suppose20:54
slvraudio works from other applications?20:55
ejri just tried, to make sure, "sudo adduser myusername video", but i was already in that group20:55
ejrthese are the permissions of /dev/video0: crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 May 15 20:29 /dev/video020:56
ejrthough the mic i want to use is not that of the webcam, it's an attached headset20:56
ejrand yeah, audio works in zoom, telegram etc., but not in chromium20:56
slvrPosted my thoughts on moderation in this room for discussion on the forum. It's long, sorry.
slvrIs chromium able to play audio?20:57
ejrslvr: yes21:01
slvrI used jitsi in firefox on devuan often, I wonder what makes chromium different.21:07
ejryeah, even more strange because it worked on my earlier installation (also beowulf); i just reinstalled it today21:07
ejrand i dont really know what is different now, in terms of packages or permissions21:08
masonslvr: Thanks for the post. Thoughtful.21:08
systemdletePuzzling.  Not sure what has changed, but I am having a problem suddenly.  I have been running ascii in a VM for months now, actually years.  I apply updates regularly.  It is up to date atm.  But now when I switch between the VM and the host, the VM does not "come back" -- meaning, all I get is a blank screen.  If I open console, I can see the user is sstill logged in and running the desktop.  ???21:08
systemdleteI tried searching this, but apparently I am not picking the right terms.  Any ideas?21:09
slvrejr: might be worth running chromium from a shell and looking at the output while it is failing21:09
slvrsystemdlete: is monitor blanking enabled?21:09
systemdletenot sure.  How to tell?21:09
slvrsystemdlete: I think you check with DISPLAY=:0 xset -q21:09
systemdletefrom console?21:10
slvrI just fixed this today on a beowulf system. Installing firmware-linux pacakge made blanking enabled. :./21:10
slvryeah ssh'd in or from a console. Doesn't matter.21:10
systemdleteNo protocol specified   xset:  unable to open display ":0"21:11
slvris X running?21:11
slvras your user?21:11
slvrif there's no session running, it won't have anything to connect to.21:12
systemdletexfce4-session running21:12
systemdletexfwm4 --display :0.0 is running21:12
systemdletexfdesktop is running21:13
systemdletelooks like 2 instances of Xorg are running, one for my user and the other waiting for additional login21:13
systemdlete(tty7 and tty8)21:13
systemdletehuh... what is -novtswitch option to Xorg -- is that the issue?21:14
ejrthis is the log from starting chromium in the shell and doing the test21:14
systemdletefirmware-linux is not installed21:15
iv4nshm4k0v"No protocol specified" suggests an X authentication error.21:15
ejrtowards the end of the log some messages say that no audio channel exists and something about clearing from sink for ssrc 0, whatever that means21:15
systemdleteI just rebooted the VM, logged in, switched to the host, then back to VM.  That's all -- I haven't done anything else.21:16
systemdleteOne thing I remember now.  I temporarily clicked on the checkbox (on a previous boot earlier today) that says something to the effect that it should always ask for the session (I think upon login, but I'm not sure)21:17
systemdleteI checked it, unchecked it and left that dialog.  But it does query me upon login now.21:18
systemdleteThat's the only session-oriented issue I can think of atm.21:18
systemdleteit's xfce4 btw21:18
systemdletestrange, it just switched back to the login screen on its own21:21
systemdlete(I was in console)21:21
systemdleteslvr:  xorg is running (2 instances) but as root, not my user21:22
systemdleteare we still here?21:34
systemdleteone other change I made was increasing memory from 4G to 6G in the VM.21:36
ejri just tried the site and there i also get a general "Permission denied" error21:49
systemdleteI'm trying xfce4 in a new session.  I want to see if maybe that one session config is messed up.21:56
slvrSorry, I was told I was an SJW and to begone by the fucking asshole running this place. I'm out. This project is fucked as long as golinux is here.22:00
masonYeah, there's a strong alt-right leaning which is unfortunate.22:02
systemdleteadelie linux can't come soon enough it seems22:03
coniferhow did such subject even come up in a software project?...22:03
crashoverridesystemdlete: dunno, I switched to BSD22:04
crashoverrideadelie is taking years literally22:04
systemdleteand when?  slvr and I were just chatting, moments ago, and then suddenly *poof*22:04
systemdleteI know, I know.22:04
systemdleteand then there's openindiana22:05
systemdleteor was, anyway22:05
masonStill is. They just had a release IIRC.22:06
masonBut Devuan's quite worthwhile.22:06
systemdleteyour comment was unsettling, and it made me want to run and cry, not nec in that order22:07
systemdletebut this prob belongs in fork, not here22:07
masonToo toxic in there for me.22:07
sgageslvr, you are WAY out of line. Take your foul-mouthed passive-aggression somewhere else.22:11
sgageAs for SJW, it comes across that way. Fiddly little CoC's come next.22:12
sgageI'm off topic! Buh-bye...22:12
systemdletewell, now I can see what's happening -- after some period of time, a new login session just suddenly appears, and the one that was running goes blank screen, but all the programs are still running in that session!  and the user is still logged in22:19
systemdleteAnd this is with a fresh session.22:20
MinceRstrange how caring more about software working properly than making suits/politicians feel happy makes one altReich...22:20
systemdleteOr, one could be nice *and* helpful at the same time, right?  Maybe not bring up politics too much though.22:21
systemdleteCan anyone actually help me with this problem?22:21
systemdleteI mean, things were going quite well before now22:21
MinceRsorry, i have no idea what's going on there22:21
systemdletethis problem only started appearing the last day or so22:21
systemdletewhat is "dito"?22:22
systemdleteis that like ditto?  or is it an acronym?22:23
ejrit means "i agree"22:23
buZzsystemdlete: lacking idem22:23
ejr(as I also have my problem with the microphone still, since my reinstall)22:23
systemdletebuZz:  Sorry, not familiar with idem either!22:24
buZzthats ok ;) its kinda bloated language anyway22:24
systemdleteejr:  I think you meant "ditto" not "dito"22:24
buZzidem dito is latin for 'same as before'22:24
ejrisn't all language bloat?22:24
buZzsystemdlete: no, dito ;)22:24
systemdleteanyway, per my issue, please...22:25
buZzare you multiseat logging into your 1 X server?22:25
masonsystemdlete: Can you summarize it? You're losing your screen swiching back and forth between a VM and your host system...? What software are you using, if this is accurate?22:25
systemdleteafter some period of time, a new login session just suddenly appears, and the one that was running goes blank screen, but the user is still logged in and all the programs are still running in that session!22:26
systemdletevirtualbox running ascii22:26
systemdletesomehow a new login is being spawned, not sure why22:26
masonsystemdlete: So, it's just inside the virtualbox that things go south?22:26
systemdleteso far, yes...22:26
masonsystemdlete: Nothing in dmesg about it?22:26
systemdleteah, those logs, yes...22:27
buZzhow are you seeing the login being spawned if you have a black screen?22:27
buZzis it a tty login? a X login? what?22:27
buZzso, nothing22:29
systemdleteNot sure where the ISO/CD messages come from.  I didn't insert a CD22:29
buZz> 22:27:17 < buZz> how are you seeing the login being spawned if you have a black screen?22:29
masonsystemdlete: X session? Can you show us the end of /var/log/Xorg.0.log?22:29
buZzi'm -guessing- he just dropped to console from X22:30
buZzalt+f7 to go back22:30
systemdleteI did say that the one that was running goes blank screen, so yes22:30
buZzso how does a blank screen show you a login?22:31
masonsystemdlete: It could go blank from being X or from being a getty22:31
systemdletewho(1) shows who is logged in22:31
masonsystemdlete: Have you verified that the virtual console hasn't simply changed?22:31
systemdletemason: But why after so long?22:31
systemdleteno, virtual console is still tty722:31
systemdletethe new login is on tty822:31
systemdletebut no one is logged in on tty822:32
buZzi bet you just need to go back to the virtual console running X , virtualbox made you leave it somehow22:32
masonso you see a getty show up on ttyv7 after there'd been a X session there? Or there's been a logged in getty session there?22:32
systemdleteno, on tty822:33
systemdletetty7 is blank22:33
systemdlete(black screen)22:33
masonWas there an X session on ttyv7 before that?22:33
systemdleteyes, that is what I'm saying.  My user was logged in on tty722:33
buZzon tty7, or in X?22:33
systemdletesuddenly, out of nowhere, the VM switches to tty8/login, and when I go back to tty7, it is blank22:34
masonsystemdlete: I really want to know what was on 7 before. It's not clear. X? console login? It matters for debugging.22:34
systemdletethere is still my user logged in on tty7, and all the programs for xfce etc are still running under that user22:34
masonAh, XFCE means X.22:34
masonSo there was X on it before that. Please show us the end of /var/log/Xorg.0.log from the VM then.22:34
systemdleteI just did22:35
masonOh, thought that was from dmesg.22:35
masonOh, that paste. It was a bad URL. "No such paste."22:35
systemdletehere it is again:
buZzEntry not found22:35
masonSays "entry not found" here.22:35
masonThat one works. Looking.22:38
systemdleteI'm starting to wonder if  maybe I need to reboot the host.  Perhaps some weird VM stuff coming from vbox22:39
masonsystemdlete: Not altogether sure as I don't tend to run X in VMs, but the vmware lines with what appear to be resolutions seem notable.22:39
systemdleteright.  That would be the VM changing "resolutions"22:39
masonsystemdlete: I'd line up that second one, at 6087.335, with the session going away.22:39
masonIs that the event at which it went away?22:40
systemdleteI'm not expert on X22:40
masonsystemdlete: This is killing it with fire, but if I were you I'd use qemu-kvm for VMs.22:40
systemdleteor maybe it's just another annoying problem with vbox that needs to be reported... yeah, I'm actually starting to look at xen22:41
systemdleteLet me try a reboot and see if that does anything good.22:41
masonThat's work too. KVM is less work to use since it's a type 2 hypervisor.22:41
masonI used Xen for years. I prefer KVM now.22:41
systemdleteIf not, we can look further.  At this point we are guessing and maybe wasting your time.  I appreciate it though.22:42
systemdletehave you looked at xen dom0-less?22:42
masonNah, we documented the event that led to what you're seeing. That's productive.22:42
systemdleteit's available in the latest xen22:42
masonsystemdlete: That sounds conceptually impossible. Weird. I'll look.22:42
systemdleteI'm trying to install it here on a testbox22:42
systemdletewell, at this point, you still have dom0, but it doesn't do the work of launching the domU's22:43
systemdleteyeah, there's a few youtube vids on it also.22:43
systemdleteI like the idea of not having a "host" OS (dom0)22:44
buZzi wonder if they finally fixed proxmox to install onto devuan yet22:44
masonHm, pushing functionality off to the bootloader. I guess that could reduce system load.22:44
systemdleteand they claim it is fast too because it is booting the domU's in parallel22:44
systemdletebut for the moment, let me reboot and see if this goes away22:45
systemdleteI had also installed light-locker; forgot about that one.  I think I read that it can present some issues23:05
systemdletethat might be the sticky wicket23:05
systemdleteI might not have had it configured correctly, but it is gone now23:06
systemdletethat apt history log comes in handy... I had forgotten I installed it.  I'll let the VM run for a while and see if the behavior returns23:10
specingIs there a guide on how to write Devuan OpenRC init scripts ?23:15
specingI see "### BEGIN INIT INFO" at the top of them, loooks like machine readable part? Is there a tool one should use?23:16
specingactually... those don't look like OpenRC scripts, do they?23:17
gnarfacespecing: i think those are the sysvinit scripts you're looking at.  they still all run under the default openrc setup23:50
gnarfacespecing: (i think the whole point of openrc is to not have init scripts, but then you lose compatibility with things that were using them, so someone came up with a way to use both)23:50
gnarfacespecing: there's a way to change it to be only openrc like gentoo does it, but i don't know specifics.  people in here have done it though.23:51
specingIts fine if its mixed23:54
specingI just chose openrc as I'm familiar with it from Gentoo23:54

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