libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-05-17

bsd4mefsmithred, I'm trying to run gparted on updated refracta, but get "usr/sbin/gparted: 78: /usr/sbin/gparted: pkexec: not found"00:45
buZzmaybe pkexec is not found00:46
bsd4mecouldn't locate it, but couldn't find it via apt either00:47
debdogpk == policy kit?00:49
debdoghttps://packages.debian.org/buster/amd64/policykit-1/filelist00:50
bsd4meThanks! See it. Now a newbie question. How do I fix that?00:53
debdoghehe, good question :)00:53
bsd4me:)00:54
bsd4meGuess, I'll not use it for a while00:54
bsd4menormally use cfdisk anyway00:54
fsmithredtrying to start gparted from menu?01:00
fsmithredand when you say updated refracta, do you mean refracta10-beta3?01:01
fsmithredbsd4me, ^^^01:01
bsd4meugh, let me check. Been installed for few months...forget :)01:02
fsmithredoh01:02
fsmithredwhich kernel?01:02
fsmithred4.9 or 4.19?01:02
bsd4metried starting from menu and cli01:02
bsd4me5.301:03
fsmithredoh01:03
fsmithredgparted-pkexec should start it from terminal01:03
fsmithredif you're user01:03
bsd4menope. Thats where I got the error01:03
bsd4meLinux refracta 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux01:04
fsmithredthis system I'm running doesn't have gparted-pkexec either01:05
fsmithredwas installed back in december and it's refracta beowulf, but I dont' recall how I got here.01:05
fsmithredanyway, just su and run gparted01:05
bsd4mesorry, how do I open display?  Never had to do that01:06
fsmithredthere's a little black rectangle in the top panel, next to the apps menu01:06
fsmithredoh01:06
fsmithreddisplay01:06
fsmithredstartx?01:06
bsd4meoh, ok. I was looking for something like gksu01:07
fsmithredoh01:07
fsmithredare you already on a desktop?01:07
bsd4meGuess I can logout, then login as root01:07
bsd4meyes01:07
fsmithredno!!!01:08
bsd4meok01:08
fsmithredjust open a terminal, become root and start gparted01:08
bsd4me(gpartedbin:20859): Gtk-WARNING **: 15:08:28.090: cannot open display:01:08
fsmithredecho "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" >> /etc/default/su01:09
fsmithredthen log out of root and su again01:09
fsmithredyou're doing su, not 'su -' right?01:10
bsd4meno. su -01:11
fsmithredthat won't work. Don't bother with the echo.01:11
bsd4mewhat I used01:11
bsd4meok01:11
fsmithredjust exit and then su01:11
fsmithredso you keep user's environment01:11
bsd4meGot it! Thanks :)01:11
fsmithredand contrary to what I may have said weeks or months ago, which you probably didn't hear, copying user's .Xuathority to /root does still work01:13
fsmithred(or maybe it works again)01:13
fsmithredand I didn't spell that right01:13
bsd4meMissed that and will do that!01:13
fsmithredin the new refracta beowulf isos, gparted does start from the menu01:14
bsd4me:)   oh, with new isos, will there be a newer kernel? Just curious01:15
fsmithredno, there will be an older kernel01:15
fsmithredlol, older than yours01:15
bsd4meok, np01:15
fsmithredstock beowulf 4.19-whatever01:15
fsmithredunless it turns out the new kernel fixes a particular issue that's bugging me01:16
bsd4melol, this is the kernel that came with the iso I downloaded01:16
bsd4meok. Understand that.01:16
fsmithredwtf backports iso did I make??01:16
bsd4meNo idea. Got it from a site you told me to try, since older kernels don't work on this lenova ideapad 32001:17
fsmithredthis has openbox instead of xfce?01:17
bsd4meWell, they work, but need a bunch of additions/switches01:18
bsd4meyes01:18
fsmithredok, I know which one it is01:18
fsmithredyou might need to add policykit-1-gnome to get gparted-pkexec01:19
bsd4meBeen working great for me01:19
bsd4meok01:19
fsmithredI'm not sure how much other crap that will pull in01:20
bsd4meabout a dozen or so. Removes libsystemd()01:21
fsmithredreplaces it with libelogind0?01:21
bsd4meyes01:21
fsmithredI just booted the iso I think you used01:24
fsmithredit's pretty lean - no elogind, consolekit or policykit.01:24
bsd4meyes, lean for sure, but working fine for me.01:24
tuxd3vhello dear Dev1ners,08:30
tuxd3v:)08:30
tuxd3vdon't know if somebody can help me, with a strange request..08:31
tuxd3vI need a crosscompiler from --build=i686 --host=amd64 --target=amd6408:31
tuxd3vI am in i686 and need to compile stuff for amd64 :S08:32
tuxd3vpeculiar request08:32
tuxd3vactually I will need both08:42
tuxd3vamd64-Linux-gnu08:43
tuxd3vand amd64 baremetal to compile coreboot bootloader..08:43
gnarfacetuxd3v: don't know for sure, but i didn't think that was possible.  mabye in qemu though...09:23
meep_____I know it's certainly possible in gentoo09:25
meep_____Hmm09:25
meep_____I don't know09:25
meep_____In any case you might have to compiile gcc yourself if it's not packaged09:25
onefangIt should be possible.  The very first 64 bit compilers where likely built using 32 bit cross compilers.  Qemu is a good idea though.09:25
meep_____Bootstrapping gcc isn't two bad, there's only like 2 or three math libraries you need09:25
meep_____*too09:26
meep_____onefang: TCG 64bit emulation on a 32 bit host09:26
meep_____That's not going to be fun09:26
onefanghttp://landley.net/aboriginal/about.html is what I use for my cross compiling.09:27
gnarfaceif it works in gentoo then it should work in ceres at least, i would think09:29
gnarfacei wouldn't put much hope in it working on ascii though09:29
gnarface(just because i couldn't cross-compile anything else there either)09:29
gnarfacetuxd3v: these guys say it should work, just add it as a foreign architecture and see what happens?09:31
tuxd3vthanks guys, I believe that in the past I was trying to build my own crosscompiler, but I gaveup because of memory contraints something like that09:33
tuxd3vI only have 4GB total in my machine and I am in beowulf09:33
tuxd3vI have around 2.5GB free and I think the minimum needed was 3 or 4 something like that09:34
tuxd3vI mean to build the crosscompiler..09:35
tuxd3vits strange but that are a lot of combinations possible out there for other smaller usage archs, and for --host amd64 I still haven't found one crosscompiler :)09:36
tuxd3vgnarface, you mean add it as a foreign architecture, it will install new glibc, and a lot of packages I believe09:37
tuxd3vonefang, nice stuff :)09:38
gnarfaceyes, it would probably also pull in a bunch of dependencies09:38
gnarfacewell, i used a chroot09:39
gnarfacehow qemu compares on disk space usage may vary...09:39
kaun_Hi people. I am a returning refugee, braving a ascii->beowulf upgrade. I have trouble.12:05
kaun_Any non-contributors here running beowulf?12:09
* crashoverride does the German thing and stacks kaun_ with the rest of the refugee in an overcrowded locked up "camp" where a good half is sick12:09
kaun_ha ha12:09
kaun_I shouldn't have moved now?12:10
crashoverridethat's pretty much the message they're sending: die in your verdammt OWN country12:11
ejrkaun_: why do you qualify your question with the comment about being a refugee?12:11
kaun_I was over-confident, having used Debian since Potato. Coming back after a couple of years of Gentoo, I guess I got excited.12:11
onefangMight be better just to tell us what the trouble is you have.12:11
kaun_I did a ASCII2.0 netinst, and immediately dist-upgrade'd to beowulf.12:12
* crashoverride thinks it was a humorous attempt, and found it so before trying to turn it into dark humour for the sake of "activism"12:12
kaun_I got Xorg working, but not with beowulf's 4.19 kernel.12:12
kaun_ASCII's 4.19 works.12:13
ejrif your installation was recen and you havent yet set up all your programs and stuff, just reinstall a beowulf netinstallation image12:13
crashoverrideI would expect the apt update && apt upgrade && apt dist-upgrade to work12:14
kaun_recent, yes. 12 hours old!12:14
ejrthen just reinstall12:14
ejris usually easier than going through the hassle of setting that up manually, after a bothed dist-upgrade12:14
crashoverrideejr: but is this not a bug report in a way?12:14
kaun_I expected it to too. dist-upgrade really spoils one.12:14
kaun_I am just wondering. userland beowulf is working.12:15
gnarfacethe beowulf upgrade worked when i tested it, but i had to uninstall one of the policy backends again like with ascii12:15
crashoverrideor do you think this borked upgrade is a one-off only?12:15
gnarface(it's mentioned in the release notes)12:15
ejrcrashoverride: true... assuming that it's not Xorg related (there were several bugs because of the new kernel recently)12:15
kaun_ok12:15
crashoverridehmm12:16
ejruserland beowulf is working fine otherwise, yes. i myself also had some issues with the kernel upgrade 2 weeks ago though, related to Xorg (but I am running libreboot so that complicates matters even more)12:16
manchotanyone speak french here?12:19
onefangThere might be a #devuan-fr, I'm not sure.12:20
kaun_I'd like to get 4.19 working now, when I'm in the middle of setting the system up.12:24
meep_____kaun_: why? What's wrong with 4.9?12:25
kaun_I'd have to ask the developer of 4.10+ ;-)12:25
kaun_I assumed 4.9 was ASCII's kernel.12:26
meep_____Yes12:26
meep_____Oh is beowulf releasing now?12:26
kaun_I dist-upgraded to beowulf (knowingly)12:26
kaun_it largely works ... with ASCII's kernel12:27
meep_____Oh nvm then12:27
meep_____I thought you were trying to backport kernels to ascii or something12:27
kaun_nah, typical desktop user here.12:28
kaun_I want to spend time now, when I've just installed Devuan.12:29
kaun_keep updating like a rolling release until beowulf releases.12:29
kaun_then stay put.12:29
kaun_I went from a long stint on Debian, to Gentoo for a couple of years. I had forgotten how "old" De{bv}uan kernels are.12:31
kaun_For good reason.12:32
kaun_the beowulf kernel problem is not Xorg, it is earlier - when kms kicks in.12:36
kaun_So, I can't see anything on console. Which log files could I look at after rebooting with ASCII's kernel?12:37
meep_____As a gentoo user i just went back to 4.19 from 5.4 lts12:38
meep_____They are old for a reason12:38
meep_____Because they work12:38
kaun_yep12:39
meep_____I'd rather wait for debian to be good and ready12:40
meep_____Also12:40
meep_____Openrc on devuan is atrocious12:40
meep_____Hopefully that improves12:40
kaun_meep____: gentoo? sticking with it?12:40
meep_____*devuan to be good and ready12:40
meep_____Yes12:40
kaun_i stay with sysinit12:40
meep_____I'm sticking with gentoo on my main machine12:40
kaun_ok.12:41
meep_____Everything else is devuan stable or netbsd release12:41
kaun_i missed dist-upgrades12:41
meep_____*netbsd stable12:41
kaun_on gentoo12:41
meep_____I don't like the rolling nature of gentoo12:41
meep_____That's my only complaint12:41
kaun_i usually didn't 'emerge sync' for months.12:41
meep_____I want more stability then just the !~arch12:42
meep_____Yeah, I have a computer to do work on, not run the updater in a while loop12:42
meep_____*cough archlinux cough*12:42
kaun_ha ha, yes.12:42
meep_____The problem with gentoo'12:45
kaun_ascii's 4.9 kernel and beowulf's 4.19, both use the same video firmware12:46
onefangThe problem with Gentoo is it has nothing to do with Devuan support so probably should be discussed somewhere other than this Devuan support channel.  B-)12:46
meep_____Gentoo's rolling release model even with experimental and stable flags, is that third party software can have major changes between releases so it's not safe to install all update automaticly for a release and not have to worry about things breaking like you can with devuan12:47
kaun_yep, devuan is better12:47
kaun_the beowulf system is not on any network, I can't ssh into it when it has booted 4.19 and lost the console likely due to kms12:49
gnarfaceyou could try adding nomodeset to the kernel command-line via the grub prompt?12:55
kaun_ah nomodeset (i only tried video=vesa)12:57
kaun_since I anyway seem to be kernel-hopping, does Debian/Devuan have only 1 supported kernel version? Do any patchset versions also see use, like Con Kolivas' desktop latency patches?12:59
gnarfacethere's beowulf-backports13:01
gnarfacethat should have a 5.4 kernel or later right now13:01
gnarfacewhich video card are you using?13:01
kaun_amd apu, 5350 (kabini)13:05
kaun_i see redhat and debian forums reporting the problem being missing firmware13:05
kaun_for some amd chips, i feel it could be missing for the kabini apu too.13:06
onefangBeowulf-backports has kernel 5.4 and 5.5 by the look of it.13:06
kaun_back in my decade of debian use, I stayed with stable. i'd like to start on "nextstable" and stay on it in devuan.13:08
kaun_in case some other amd apu user tries beowulf as-is13:08
gnarfaceoh, the firmware would be in non-free13:09
kaun_i pulled in non-free just for that (thst's why ascii kernel works)13:10
radhas anyone got an encrypted home directory (in beowulf or ascii)?14:11
rad"Package ecryptfs-utils is not available, but is referred to by another package."14:11
radhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=ecryptfs-util&release=beowulf it really doesn't exist in beowulf.14:19
rrqnot for my home dir, but I use gocryptfs as replacement14:22
radI see. I'll check if it can used for home dir encryption as well. Is ecryptfs-utils coming to beowulf? Can I somehow help to bring it over?14:24
radI've also got a question about packages and amprolla in general. I see that some debian packages are overridden by devuan-specific versions of these packages, which I assume are maintained by the devuan community. I am wondering first of all of there is a list of these packages and secondly, how does the maintainance go? Is there a repo for the devuan versions and peoply check the patches in the debian version and try to port them to their14:30
raddevuan version? Is it possible to monitor which devuan-specific packages are lagging behind especially in regard to security related patches?14:30
radI guess the devuan specific packages are here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages14:38
xrogaanthere should be a list somewhere15:16
xrogaanI mean, it's the logical stuff to do right? List the packages they forked...15:21
fsmithredrad, that list on gdo is not perfectly accurate, but it's close. For an exact list, you'd need to look at a Packages.* file in the repo, such as these: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/beowulf/main/binary-amd64/15:23
fsmithredand to see what devuan-specific packages you have installed, run 'dpkg -l | grep devuan'15:23
fsmithredwe put 'devuan' in the version when we fork a package from debian.15:24
radThanks for the info. Do you have any idea why ecryptfs-utils is not available? I would assume that if it's not overridden then it would come directly from debian. But it looks like it's coming from neither. And I checked some of the banned-packages textfiles in the pkgmaster page before and didn't find it anywhere.15:27
xrogaanthey have -devuan right?15:28
xrogaandpkg -l | awk '/devuan/ { print $2 " " $3 }'15:29
xrogaanrad: if the package depends on systemd and not forked, it may just be because nobody's done it.15:30
radIn ascii, not really: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/ecryptfs-utils_111-4.html15:31
radI'll check the package in buster to see if it depends on systemd15:31
xrogaanFor ecryptfs, it's not available in buster at all. So not available in beowulf either.15:31
xrogaansee: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/ecryptfs-utils15:32
radO_O but I have it in my raspbian, which I'm pretty sure it's based on buster.15:32
xrogaanDid you upgrade from stretch?15:33
xrogaanif so, may not have been removed.15:33
radI think it was a fresh image from the website (for rasbian)15:33
radAnd it's not even installed by default so I must have fetched it with apt.15:34
radI'm booting my raspbian now to check15:34
xrogaanask the debian people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯15:35
radyeah this doesn't seem to be an issue with devuan.15:35
xrogaantheir ML seems dead https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/filesystems-devel/15:38
radxrogaan, just in case you are interested, I checked my raspbian. I have ecryptfs-utils 111-4 armhf installed. And yeah it's supposed to be based on buster. So I suppose they got the version from stretch.16:58
xrogaanor sid17:50
wdqHello19:21
wdqOnly bots19:24
fsmithredno, we're here19:24
wdqOhh my god i was thinking is just bots19:25
fsmithredthis is more of a help channel than a conversation channel19:25
fsmithredif you ask a question here, someone will eventually answer19:26
wdqI see , and where is the conversational one19:26
fsmithredcould be seconds, minutes, hours...19:26
fsmithredOT channel is #debianfork19:26
wdqOkay19:26
wdq10x19:26
fsmithredyw19:26
fsmithredyou gonna burn a cd of your mix and test it for me, please?19:27
wdqYes ... if you need i have it on a usb drive and installed it twice19:28
fsmithredyeah, they work fine on usb19:28
fsmithredbut burned to optical, no mouse or keyboard19:28
fsmithredunless you boot toram19:28
fsmithredit's weird19:28
wdqI will put it on a cd now19:28
fsmithredthanks19:28
wdqNo problem19:29
wdqI will be back as soon as i am done with the test19:30
wdqStarted to write disk in real mode19:34
wdqFsmithred19:50
wdqhttps://ibb.co/sPGKMr519:50
wdqCheck this out19:50
wdqNo errors tested on different laptop with atached usb mouse19:51
wdqOhh sorry19:55
wdqYou wanted me to test the devuan distro19:55
wdqWill do and come back with a answer19:56
fsmithredno, I want to know about your distro (or any)20:06
fsmithredI already know mine doesn't work.20:07
morpheuMine is ok20:14
scaredysquirrelhello21:48
scaredysquirrelwhy does localedef during the install take half an hour or more to complete?21:48
scaredysquirrelI told it to generate all locales21:48
ShorTiethat is probily why22:24
systemdletemy ascii vm became unresponsive.  It took me an hour to figure out what the problem was because the entire VM was getting swallowed up by whatever it was.  Looking at the system logs, I saw that processes could no longer fork.  Then I recalled that sometimes firefox or thunderbird spring a memory leak.  So I did a killall firefox-esr and sure enough, that stopped the panic.   I just found out there is a new firefox-esr, and I've23:11
systemdleteinstalled it.23:11
systemdleteI've tried umpteen different ways to limit firefox memory (ulimit, etc) but none of it seems to work for me.23:11
systemdleteI'm more than happy to do whatever it takes to keep firefox from eating every last byte of memory in the system.23:12
systemdletestrange it had been working OK for some time.  This morning was the first time this has happened in recent time (say, 6 months or so?)23:12
gnarfacesystemdlete: i just wouldn't leave firefox running, it's not safe anymore.  it's got so many leaks you might even be experiencing different leaks depending on what features the website uses23:20
gnarfacesystemdlete: best you can probably do without cracking open the source code is just set something to kill it before it uses too much memory23:21
systemdletewhy doesn't ulimit work?23:21
gnarfacei don't really know specifically, but ulimit is a soft limit23:22
gnarfaceso, the progam in question has to be well enough behaved to care about it and obey it in the first palce23:22
gnarfacefirst place*23:22
gnarfacealthough, when you set ulimit did you override the "soft" or "hard" settings?23:23
gnarfaceit might matter but i'm not holding my breath23:23
gnarfacei frankly haven't tried struggling against firefox, i've only messed with these limits when something hits them23:25
gnarfaceit might be there's some trick to it like also limiting sockets or threads or file locks...23:25
gnarfacebut my assumption is whatever you manage to impose it's still going to end with a crashed firefox so you know, it might not be worth it except in the academic sense23:26
gnarfacei do wish it was different but at this point the situation needs a staffing solution23:27
* gnarface remembers being able to leave firefox open for weeks at a time but not recently 23:28
systemdleteLike, as in beat it with a staff?23:33
gnarfaceno i mean like, some people at mozilla need to be fired23:35
systemdleteI like that talk.23:35
systemdleteThis would be a good time to do it, too, given all the layoffs.23:36
gnarfacei've heard good things about palemoon, maybe it's worth a try? i don't know if it's more stable or not23:39
gnarfacemostly people switched to it because of protest over some other feature change23:39
systemdleteI've heard good things about palemoon also.  And I even tried it.  Many people do not like it.23:39
systemdletethen there is chrome23:39
systemdleteand waterfox23:40
gnarfacethe fact palemoon is not in Debian yet might be a warning sign, but then again waterfox isn't there either23:40
gnarfacebut yea you can use chromium instead, that's in the repo and it's also gaining popularity23:40
systemdletebut most of them use the same one or two rendering engines, so I'm not sure it makes too much difference.23:40
gnarfacefor rendering yea there's basically 223:41
systemdleteright.23:41
gnarfaceso except for bleeding-edge css3 features, probably no big differences in rendering23:41
systemdletethen there are some browsers that come with a different js engine23:41
systemdleteOn one hand, I'm curious to know what is eating memory.  Then, otoh, I really don't want to know either.23:41
gnarfacewell, valgrind might help?  i think that's what it is for23:42
systemdleteIt seems like most of the updates are superficial, changes to the UI, e.g., or some minor convenience features.23:42
gnarfaceif you can narrow it down to a specific website you have a good chance of narrowing it down to a specific plugin or javascript function23:42
systemdleteomg...23:42
systemdleteI usually have dozens of tabs open for all my banks, credit cards, utilites, etc23:43
gnarfacei mean, if you leave firefox open with only "about:blank" loaded, does it get any more stable?  that's a big question23:43
gnarfacemy assumption based on observations here is that it mostly does not leak, then suddenly leaks a bunch real fast23:44
systemdletethat could be the issue in itself, though, as I said, until recently firefox has been working well.  Firefox in particular seems to go through periods of rapid updates to fix their latest changes -- they should try testing before releasing, but that's just my silly, immature opinion23:44
gnarfacebut i'm not sure it's anything to do with web content per-se... it seems to happen more if other opengl programs are running at the same time, leading me to believe it may actually be exciting a leak in my *nvidia proprietary drivers* which isn't for whatever reason exposed by anything else except sometimes wine23:44
systemdleteI mean, I'd hate to tell a bunch of self-righteous hipster millenials how to do their work.23:44
gnarfacehehe23:45
gnarfacewell, let's not get too far off the rails into editorializing23:45
systemdleteok23:45
gnarfacei think we know their priorities aren't about the stability of the stupid thing23:45
systemdleteooh. what if...23:45
systemdletewhat if there were, say, an open source browser where the emphasis was on security and stability.  There would be hundreds of developers working on nothing but security and stability, and one part-time UI developer.23:47
systemdleteand of course 100s more to do testing23:47
systemdleteTHOROUGH testing.  Infrequent releases.23:47
fsmithredsystemdlete, how much ram does your VM have?23:48
systemdleteI just bumped it from 4G to 6G because I added a second user.  I have 16G total on the host, and only about 14 or so is used typically23:50
systemdleteAlso, the VM has 500M of swap... hmmm.   Maybe I should bump that up also?  But I'd think with 6G that really ought to be enough for both users, even if they are both running firefox23:51
fsmithredholy shit. 4G should be more than enough.23:53
fsmithredum23:54
fsmithredI take that back23:54
fsmithredI have 6 and I've had the browser choke23:54

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!