some_alex | is there any intention to ship linux-libre kernel? | 00:38 |
---|---|---|
fsmithred | some_alex, not at this time. Possibly in the future - it's an idea, not yet a plan. | 00:39 |
fsmithred | gnuinos is a devuan respin that uses libre kernel | 00:39 |
some_alex | their website is almost dead and not even English :( | 00:42 |
some_alex | fsmithred: any thoughts on the earlier question on initrd config? | 00:44 |
fsmithred | I'm not entirely clear on how it decides which modules to include | 00:46 |
fsmithred | gnuinos is alive, I'm sure. | 00:46 |
fsmithred | you can also add libre kernel yourself. Pretty sure someone wrote it up on the forum. | 00:47 |
some_alex | well I checked the website and all I see is a few buttons in a language I don't know | 00:47 |
some_alex | yes there's a script to deblob the sources recorded by the wayback machine (the original website is down at the moment) and I'll try to use it, but I prefer using distro packages whenever possible. The only program I have not from the repositories is Tor Browser which I run in a sandbox because of this. I'm also planning to create LXC containers to separate development far from my user evironment | 00:50 |
fsmithred | https://gnuinos.org/Beowulf/ | 00:52 |
fsmithred | Descargas for Downloads | 00:52 |
fsmithred | https://gnuinos.org/Ascii/ | 00:53 |
some_alex | fsmithred: sorry for not making it clear, but I don't trust distros with almost empty website. The less info I have on something, the less I can trust it. They don't even have a signature file. Did I mention that I either read or sandbox every single script that I have to run including any plugin to any program whatsoever? :) | 00:59 |
some_alex | say, what would it take to add another kernel package to devuan? | 00:59 |
fsmithred | a maintainer | 00:59 |
fsmithred | and not a one-shot deal | 01:00 |
some_alex | what are common tasks for maintainers? | 01:00 |
fsmithred | packaging, keeping up with the changes in the package so it's available in the next release | 01:01 |
fsmithred | doesn't someone package a libre kernel that works on debian? | 01:02 |
some_alex | you mean precompiled? | 01:05 |
fsmithred | yeah, a deb package | 01:05 |
fsmithred | the debian kernel hasn't been deblobbed enough? | 01:07 |
ebisu | How do I disable the network check on boot? I'm using network manager and I dont like having to mach ctrl+c every boot | 01:10 |
some_alex | fsmithred: an email from 2009 on debian-devel-announce mailing list indicates that it was decided in December 2008 to introduce the blobs | 01:11 |
some_alex | a debian package indeed exists on the same website that hosts the code for the deblob script, the site is up now | 01:12 |
some_alex | ebisu: I'm having the same issue :( | 01:12 |
some_alex | using OpenRC here | 01:13 |
ebisu | im using sysvinit | 01:13 |
some_alex | the network check is annoying and shouldn't even be there in the first place. Since when is network required to boot the system? | 01:13 |
ebisu | i mean, systemd does the same thing to me on the real debian | 01:15 |
some_alex | ebisu: there's an init script called network or something like that. I was thinking of putting it into a different runlevel or changing the dependencies in some init scripts, haven't figured this out yet | 01:15 |
some_alex | ebisu: hey, I came here to not think about systemd! xD | 01:16 |
ebisu | lol | 01:16 |
fsmithred | an easy way to turn services on/off in different runlevels is with sysv-rc-conf | 01:18 |
fsmithred | otherwise user update-rc.d | 01:18 |
ebisu | which service am i looking for? | 01:18 |
fsmithred | networking | 01:18 |
fsmithred | I guess you want to turn it off in S | 01:19 |
some_alex | fsmithred: so my guess to put it on another runlevel is the correct solution? | 01:20 |
fsmithred | is boot hanging while waiting for a connection? | 01:20 |
ebisu | yes | 01:20 |
ebisu | until it times out | 01:20 |
ebisu | i have network on boot cuz netowrkmanager | 01:20 |
some_alex | why is it even in sysinit runlevel in the first place? | 01:20 |
ebisu | dunno | 01:20 |
ebisu | i installed sysv-rc-conf and i cant find it anywhere | 01:21 |
fsmithred | sometimes just changing 'allow hotplug' to 'auto' do it (if you have configured /etc/network/interfaces) | 01:21 |
ebisu | that worked! | 01:22 |
ebisu | thanks a bundle | 01:22 |
fsmithred | ot | 01:22 |
fsmithred | oops | 01:22 |
fsmithred | it's a common problem | 01:23 |
fsmithred | ebisu, what couldn't you find? | 01:25 |
fsmithred | sysv-rc-conf the command, or networking inside that utility? | 01:25 |
ebisu | former | 01:25 |
fsmithred | you must be root, and... | 01:25 |
ebisu | i was | 01:26 |
fsmithred | they changed the way root works | 01:26 |
fsmithred | su does not give you root's path | 01:26 |
ebisu | ohhh | 01:26 |
ebisu | that explains a lot | 01:26 |
fsmithred | so use the full path to the command or use 'su -' | 01:26 |
fsmithred | if you like to start graphical apps as root from the user's desktop, you have to do other things now | 01:26 |
fsmithred | ...or if you like to get root's path and stay in the current directory | 01:27 |
fsmithred | if you're using network manager and you configured /etc/network/interfaces, they might fight with each other | 01:35 |
some_alex | fsmithred: do you know why devuan uses a special file in /etc to determine its current release? The same info can be fetched from /etc/os-release, why create another distro-specific file? | 01:41 |
sacioz | Many thanks to all of you for the stable version , Devuan devs , contributors and supporters. | 01:51 |
fsmithred | some_alex, probably because debian does the same | 01:56 |
some_alex | fsmithred: oh I see, didn't know this | 02:10 |
fsmithred | there's /etc/os-release, /etc/issue and /etc/debian-version and /etc/devuan-version | 02:13 |
fsmithred | and if you choose, you can add /etc/lsb-release | 02:14 |
some_alex | too much files that do the same :( | 02:24 |
frabbit | is it a realistics conception, that minti could take part in devuan beside sysvinit and openrc? - https://www.fefe.de/minit/ | 04:33 |
frabbit | *minit | 04:33 |
gnarface | if someone is willing to put the work into it and it's not designed to strategically/logistically block out other "competing" software, then sure | 04:36 |
gnarface | (if they even see themselves as a "competing" project though that's probably a red flag) | 04:36 |
frabbit | gnarface: what do u mean with competing? | 04:37 |
frabbit | like systemd-Poettering talks about init systems? | 04:37 |
frabbit | gnarface: hes not competing i can guarantee. and he hates systemd. ;) | 04:51 |
frabbit | hmm i have devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64-desktop.iso on a usb here. i started it from libreboots grub, as i started 2.1 when i wnated to go to the expert installer. but heres no guided partitoning... | 05:46 |
frabbit | guided lvm encrpytion bla | 05:47 |
frabbit | has it been removed? | 05:47 |
frabbit | or do i need different paramerts for the kernel now to boot into expert installer? | 05:53 |
frabbit | also i cant choose ext3 or 4 or lvm or encryption here if i do the partitioning manually... | 05:56 |
frabbit | ah my fault, i forgot to select tools... | 07:15 |
frabbit | probably it is know but in grub.cfg is written Debian GNU/Linux instead of Devuan GNU/Linux | 08:04 |
plasma41 | some_alex: While linux-libre is not in the Devuan repositories, jxself of the FSF runs an apt repository for linux-libre. I personally have been using his repo for my kernel for several years now. Details for added the repo can be found at https://jxself.org/linux-libre/ | 08:51 |
plasma41 | s/added/adding/ | 08:52 |
frabbit | plasma41: u dont need that the debian kernel is free | 09:00 |
frabbit | ive used jx kernel repo before too, but than a discussion here figured out that i dont need it | 09:01 |
frabbit_ | plasma41: u dont need that the debian kernel is free/msg NickServ REGAIN frabbit | 09:08 |
frabbit_ | whoops | 09:08 |
frabbit_ | ^_^' | 09:08 |
frabbit | plasma41: ah now i found that u said u using this repo because of newer kernel versions that contains features u want | 09:09 |
frabbit | btw. the only reqason devuan and debian are not in the list of recommended gnu distros is the fact, that one can add contrib and non-free right? | 09:10 |
frabbit | *reason | 09:10 |
gnarface | the only complaint is about non-free, i believe | 09:29 |
gnarface | but there might be some complaints about firmware in the kernel too | 09:30 |
gnarface | (not sure) | 09:30 |
frabbit | gnarface: but i thought the debian kernel has only free software | 09:31 |
frabbit | isnt that even written in debian guidelines somethin? | 09:31 |
* frabbit looks for that document... | 09:31 | |
frabbit | got a place to ask 4: #debian-kernel | 09:34 |
frabbit | lol only 1 bot in there xD | 09:35 |
gnarface | well it only has free software, but it has some binary blobs | 09:36 |
gnarface | some people take offense to that | 09:36 |
gnarface | but the GNU people might even take offense to the kernel just supporting the non-free ones, even if when they're not there in the distro | 09:37 |
frabbit | gnarface: but thats the upstream kernel only, im pretty sure that ive red that debian removes that blobs too, just as linux-libre | 09:38 |
gnarface | Debian is pretty strict compared to most distros about that type of stuff, but the GNU people are more extreme | 09:38 |
frabbit | extrem... | 09:39 |
frabbit | wrong word | 09:39 |
frabbit | would be the best to have a free kernel and if someone needs blobs or non-free stuff this person can just add it for her or himself and done | 09:40 |
frabbit | devuan use the same kernel as debian? or is there systemd stuff in it too already? | 09:40 |
gnarface | no, for now devuan is using the same x86 kernels as debian | 09:41 |
frabbit | ok | 09:41 |
frabbit | ill ask at #debian | 09:42 |
systemdlete2 | sound stops after a while, for some unknown reason, in ascii VM. | 11:39 |
frabbit | it seems that my dvd drive doesnt except empty dvds anymore... | 11:55 |
frabbit | wodim say no medium found when i try to burn devuan iso | 11:55 |
frabbit | can it be that it needs some specific driver? | 11:56 |
frabbit | i think i remember, that i already had that issue and i think it was first after i librebooted the laptop | 11:56 |
frabbit | i use the same dvds here that i used in the past | 12:04 |
frabbit | same vendor, size etc. | 12:04 |
fsmithred | frabbit, did you get a definitive answer about blobs in the kernel? | 12:58 |
frabbit | fsmithred: no =( | 13:05 |
frabbit | but i needed to reboot my computer some time after i asked tghe question so maybe there was on (channel has no log as it seems) | 13:06 |
fsmithred | what I recall, and what I could find now suggests that the only difference between the debian and libre kernels is that libre won't let you install any non-free | 13:06 |
frabbit | damn i was in the wrong channel after reboot! | 13:07 |
frabbit | fsmithred: nah i dont think that true. im pretty sure that ive installed som ugly stuff for mp3 once with that channel, but i can not guarantee 100% | 13:08 |
fsmithred | mp3 is free now, isn't it? | 13:08 |
frabbit | dunno but that was long agao | 13:09 |
frabbit | *ago | 13:09 |
fsmithred | I think they de-blobbled around squeeze or wheezy | 13:09 |
fsmithred | they=debian | 13:10 |
frabbit | ok | 13:11 |
* frabbit needs to rage against telefonica in #debianfork | 13:17 | |
* frabbit reads devuan log site | 13:19 | |
frabbit | ok i have set up a fresh minimal beowulf install here, encrypted disk except /boot. i have installed apt-transport-https, ca-certificates and openssl from the pool dir on the installation usb via dpkg -i | 14:02 |
frabbit | but when i run deborphan it lists apt-transport-https and cryptsetup! | 14:03 |
frabbit | ive setup the encryption, lvm and partitioning manually with the installer btw. | 14:04 |
Xelraa | frabbit do u have problem with the shutdowns btw? | 14:05 |
Xelraa | like cryptdisk busy busy busy | 14:05 |
fsmithred | frabbit, when I run deborphan it lists iptraf, which I installed deliberately | 14:05 |
Xelraa | then after a wait it probably forceumounts it uncleanly | 14:06 |
Xelraa | even tho the original debian had the same issues | 14:06 |
fsmithred | I think with debian, you don't see the error messages | 14:07 |
frabbit | Xelraa: -> shutdown -> yes but that is default since years, it already was in debian | 14:07 |
frabbit | fsmithred: yeah the took makeup over it ;) | 14:08 |
frabbit | but i didnt had that deborphan thing in ascci... | 14:08 |
fsmithred | oh, I have it in ascii, too. I don't know what causes it. | 14:09 |
frabbit | fsmithred: so what did you do? mark it as hold back or something (i think deborphan has such functions)? | 14:09 |
frabbit | fsmithred: wanted it to remove apt-transport-https too? | 14:10 |
fsmithred | I don't remove it | 14:10 |
frabbit | nah... | 14:10 |
fsmithred | or if I do something like apt-get remove `deborphan` | 14:11 |
fsmithred | then I reinstall it | 14:11 |
frabbit | thats my problem... i use deborphan in a script as: "deborphan | xargs apt-get autoremove --purge -y" | 14:11 |
fsmithred | I never bothered to try to find the cause | 14:12 |
frabbit | with that i killed my first install today morning... | 14:12 |
frabbit | =( | 14:12 |
fsmithred | maybe search, maybe look at the source code | 14:12 |
frabbit | nah it has options. but heavy: try running deborphan -a | 14:12 |
frabbit | it lists many packages u may dont want to be removed... weird | 14:13 |
frabbit | -A or --add-keep should work i guess... | 14:14 |
frabbit | it creates a balcklist then of packages that will never be reported by deborphan | 14:14 |
frabbit | *blacklist | 14:14 |
frabbit | ok that works, but where is that list...? o_0 | 14:17 |
fsmithred | man page should tell you where it is | 14:18 |
frabbit | hmm so i overread it... but im sleeping here on the keyboard... =/ | 14:21 |
frabbit | great seems that ive broke something here | 14:51 |
frabbit | i mentioned that i hadnt changed on line of the three in sources.list to beowulf in my install script... =( | 14:51 |
frabbit | so i got deborphan (and man-db) from ascii | 14:52 |
frabbit | ive correct the line and runned apt-get dist-upgrade and it updated these two packages | 14:52 |
frabbit | but after i played arround with the deborphan options (i removed the entries on keep list) i can not add packages anymore | 14:53 |
frabbit | i get "fseek on /var/lib/deborphan/keep Das Argument ist ungültig" | 14:53 |
frabbit | "Das Argument ist ungültig" is german and means that the argument isnt valid | 14:54 |
frabbit | fsmithred: can u maybe try to reproduce that: add a package to the list, remove it and add it again? | 14:56 |
fsmithred | frabbit, I'm about to leave for the day. Remind me later, please. | 14:58 |
frabbit | =( ok | 14:58 |
fsmithred | 6-8 hours | 14:58 |
frabbit | but probably i will do the install again | 14:58 |
frabbit | fsmithred: nah i will sleep then | 14:58 |
fsmithred | good idea | 14:59 |
frabbit | im awake since 13 hours | 14:59 |
fsmithred | have good dreams | 14:59 |
frabbit | thx =) | 14:59 |
frabbit | it is a bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=929273 | 15:18 |
frabbit | its in Version 1.7.31 and thats the version that comes with beowulf | 15:18 |
frabbit | no backports.. hm | 15:31 |
frabbit | i go sleep now | 15:31 |
frabbit | and dream of software that suck less xD | 15:32 |
Xelraa | SLiM is an acronym for Simple Login Manager. Lightweight and easily configurable, SLiM requires minimal dependencies, and none from the GNOME or KDE desktop environments. It therefore contributes towards a lightweight system for users that also like to use lightweight desktops such as Xfce, Openbox, and Fluxbox. | 15:56 |
Xelraa | which is funny that Devuan uses a deprecated login manager | 15:56 |
Xelraa | but it works tm | 15:57 |
crashoverride | it's not so funny | 15:57 |
crashoverride | all this is happening because all the other software are bloated to high heavens | 15:57 |
crashoverride | and this is only deprecated because unmaintained... | 15:57 |
crashoverride | =/ | 15:57 |
crashoverride | the state FOSS is in, really. | 15:57 |
Xelraa | too bad that the fluxbox package is also only 1.3.5 not the latest 1.3.7 even that is more than 2 years old as I remmber | 15:57 |
xrogaan | that's debian | 16:01 |
xrogaan | same with xfce | 16:02 |
MinceR | "simple", "Lightweight", "minimal dependencies" but depends on logind? :> | 16:06 |
MinceR | they keep using those words. i do not think they mean what they think they mean. | 16:06 |
zatumil | yes, devuan embraces minimalism and shuns bloat https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/devuan_beowulf_30/ | 16:12 |
xrogaan | elogind removes quite a lot of problems actually | 16:17 |
xrogaan | I don't understand why. Maybe consolekit is just too indigest. | 16:18 |
mason | xrogaan: The thing is, elogind is logind is systemd. | 16:27 |
MinceR | indeed | 16:34 |
FlibberTGibbet | how do I deal with this please? | 16:47 |
FlibberTGibbet | E: Repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf InRelease' changed its 'Suite' value from 'testing' to 'stable' | 16:47 |
FlibberTGibbet | N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. | 16:47 |
FlibberTGibbet | i'm not much the wiser for the apt-secure man pages :) | 16:47 |
tomtastic | run apt get manually, say 'Yes' | 16:48 |
FlibberTGibbet | aha! | 16:48 |
FlibberTGibbet | thanks tomtastic | 16:50 |
robin_ | Hi guys ! :) | 17:02 |
robin_ | Is anybody here available for some few questions ? :D | 17:02 |
tomtastic | Only 250 users here, so I say just ask, dont ask to ask. | 17:03 |
robin_ | Okey sorry | 17:03 |
robin_ | i have tried to read abit about it but couldnt find any clear solution | 17:03 |
robin_ | Just installed 3.0 | 17:03 |
robin_ | But pulse-audio dont work, i guess i need to enable the service or is it something else ? : ) | 17:04 |
robin_ | Because i cant find any documentations on how to disable / or enable in sysvinit | 17:05 |
robin_ | either | 17:05 |
mason | robin_: look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf | 17:05 |
robin_ | autospawn=0 | 17:06 |
mason | Hm, I haven't tried 0 there. "no" definitely works. | 17:10 |
robin_ | i mean i have sound | 17:11 |
robin_ | but its not possible to edit the volume | 17:11 |
robin_ | with the plugin icon on xfce | 17:11 |
mason | Or, opposite. Sorry. Distracted by work stuff. You want to comment out the line. Should look like: https://bpa.st/CH6Q | 17:12 |
robin_ | Establsihing connection to pulseaudio is all i get | 17:12 |
mason | robin_: Check to see if your user's in the audio group. | 17:12 |
mason | Beyond that, unsure. I mostly try not to use PulseAudio. | 17:13 |
robin_ | fgrep -ie 'audio' /etc/group | 17:14 |
robin_ | audio:x:29:pulse,robin | 17:14 |
mason | When I get a chance I'll look at my daughter's box to see if we had to do anything special. She runs pulseaudio and xfce on Beowulf. | 17:15 |
robin_ | ao okey :D | 17:15 |
robin_ | cool man | 17:15 |
robin_ | its working fine now :) | 17:19 |
robin_ | anyway, how do you enable / disable service in sysvinit? :) | 17:19 |
djph | robin_: check /etc/rc#.d/ | 17:20 |
mason | update-rc.d | 17:37 |
mason | but he's gone | 17:37 |
nemo | anyone successfully setup lightdm to launch two X sessions on vt7 and vt8? | 20:49 |
nemo | I'm kinda banging my head against a wall on this one | 20:49 |
nemo | found examples online but none seem to work | 20:49 |
plasma41 | nemo: two X sessions? May I ask what you are trying to accomplish? | 20:52 |
fsmithred | nemo, why do you need to use lightdm to start the second session? | 21:04 |
nemo | fsmithred: I don't, it's just more convenient than switching to a vt and typing startx -- :1 & exit | 21:04 |
fsmithred | startx -- :1 won't do it for you? | 21:04 |
fsmithred | then it's just ctrl-alt-f7, ctrl-alt-f8 to switch | 21:05 |
fsmithred | what's the & exit for? | 21:05 |
nemo | fsmithred: to leave it closed | 21:05 |
nemo | the vt | 21:05 |
nemo | fsmithred: otherwise sometimes forget to log out of it on exit. | 21:05 |
fsmithred | h | 21:05 |
fsmithred | oh | 21:05 |
nemo | fsmithred: ideally would be back at the second lightdm screen | 21:05 |
nemo | and just log in again later | 21:05 |
nemo | it's tidier | 21:05 |
nemo | and seems like something that *should* work just by specifying [Seat:0] [Seat:1] | 21:06 |
nemo | buuuut can't seem to get it to use them | 21:06 |
fsmithred | I think I know a way to do this if I can remember it | 21:06 |
fsmithred | gdmflexserver | 21:09 |
nemo | oh. back to gdm? | 21:09 |
fsmithred | or | 21:09 |
fsmithred | ... | 21:10 |
fsmithred | wtf is it called? | 21:10 |
_abc_ | fyi https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2020/06/03/devuan_beowulf_30/ mentined, also MX linux, another systemd less (not enabled) distro | 21:10 |
fsmithred | dm-tool | 21:11 |
fsmithred | maybe | 21:11 |
fsmithred | nemo, try this one: https://askubuntu.com/q/416825 | 21:12 |
nemo | hmmm | 21:12 |
nemo | that seems a bit clunky compared to ctrl-alt-f7 but will dig into it | 21:13 |
nemo | maybe can add shortcuts or something | 21:13 |
fsmithred | I think you switch from the exit menu - Switch user | 21:16 |
amesser | For me this works when typing in a console on tty7 "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" | 22:08 |
amesser | just plain beowulf lightmconfig without any changes | 22:08 |
amesser | hmm, seems that lightdm just jumps back to the existing session without opening a new one. I think it was made to behave like that. | 22:38 |
amesser | I come to the conclusion that it is not supposed to work out with lightdm at all: In *logind notation, a standardpc has one "seat", namely "seat0". In principle you can start multiple sessions on that "seat0" but lightdm won't let you create another session of the same user. | 22:46 |
crashoverride | systemd should be called "license2linux" | 22:51 |
crashoverride | it's literally made for redhat to become the new microsoft. | 22:53 |
golinux | Someone in the comments at https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/devuan_beowulf_30/ said: | 23:03 |
golinux | "It seems to be a better implementation of the excellent Windows NT service interface!" | 23:03 |
fsmithred | I'm smiling at that title | 23:09 |
mason | Windows NT took a lot of its technology from VMS, so that wouldn't be so bad. | 23:23 |
MinceR | yeah, VMS is almost as bad as Backdoors NT | 23:52 |
justinsm | I saw the beowulf announcement posted on dng and devuan-dev, but did somebody forget devuan-announce? | 23:54 |
kingsley__ | Congratulations on releasing version 3 of Devuan. If it would be convenient, comfortable, and all those good things, I'd be happy to receive your informed update. I'm interested in software complexity and the apparent contradiction between the instabilities I perceive in systemd, vs its wide adoption, as well as that of another big project, the linux kernel. | 23:57 |
golinux | justinsm: AFAIK, only jaromil has the ability to do that and the service lines are being upgraded. | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!