freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-06-05

se7enthat's pretty silly00:00
fsmithredyou might play around with finding a few key packages to remove00:00
se7enI guess I should run update-alternatives soon00:00
se7enETA 12h 40min 55s00:01
se7enharsh00:01
fsmithredthat's the download time for the upgrade?00:02
se7enIt keeps jumping around00:02
se7enNow it's down to 3h00:02
se7enAfter going up to 1500:03
specingIs anyone here running Apparmor?01:13
specing/etc/init.d/apparmor start01:14
specing/etc/init.d/apparmor: 130: /etc/init.d/apparmor: systemd-detect-virt: not found01:14
specingevidently not?01:15
gnarfacei didn't even know it had an init script01:16
bgstack15my apparmor is running01:17
specingbgstack15: How does one turn it on?01:18
bgstack15if "sudo service apparmor status" returning approximately 30 lines of various sections like 15 profiles enforced, 9 in complain mode, and some of that sounding repeating, that means it's running, then yes.01:18
specingcat /sys/module/apparmor/parameters/enabled01:18
specingsays N01:18
bgstack15Dunno; I've never done anything with apparmor.01:18
bgstack15I would use selinux if devuan had sane defaults that I were aware of.01:18
specingI get "AppArmor not available as kernel LSM..01:18
specing failed!"01:18
specingI want to get experience with both01:19
bgstack15I'm sure that turning selinux on in Devuan would get you _tons_ of experience fixing it!01:19
bgstack15I didn't realize apparmor was a system service. I realize it operates differently from selinux (setenforce [0,1]) but I don't really know what that means.01:21
bgstack15so obviously the systemd-detect-virt is not available for Devuan. I don't understand why systemd people thought that virt-what was insufficient.01:22
specingbgstack15: I'm using Fedora as SELinux testbed01:24
specingPossibly CentOS/RHEL later on01:24
bgstack15Definitely a good place for SELinux defaults.01:24
bgstack15So, I know it's only slightly related, but my dream distro would use these components: sysvinit, selinux, yum output but apt concepts (no preference of rpm vs dpkg), and iptables.01:26
bgstack15I guess that would tie me in to glibc, but then I've never been one to hate on GNU. I know some people try to be GNU-free but that's not a fight I care for. I like GNU userspace.01:27
phoggbgstack15: sysvinit is nothing to write home about. Why yum over apt? I find apt to be a far more pleasant tool.01:28
bgstack15the output from yum is about 3x as useful as apt's (or dpkg's?) output. Yum will put it in nice columns, and show you what repo each file is coming from, right there in the main yum install/update output.01:29
bgstack15Apt output is gross and spans the width of the screen, or doesn't, and just sort of rambles.01:29
bgstack15I like the apt concepts of separate cache, etc. "Apt-get update" is separate from "apt-get upgrade" was foreign to me at first, but I grew to like it.01:30
fsmithredaptitude -s full-upgrade01:30
fsmithredbetter display01:30
bgstack15I realize I'm being pedantic, but is there an apt-get equivalent? I don't always install aptitude (which is a separate package?!)01:30
fsmithredI don't know how to change the formatting of apt-get's output or if it's possible01:31
fsmithredbut I find it useless for a big list of packages01:31
bgstack15oh, unfortunately "aptitude -s full-upgrade" still just spanned like 5-8 packages across each row, and didn't show me the repo name it was coming from.01:31
bgstack15I know apt-cache policy is there, and that's great for lookups. But I want to see all that info at once, for the Y/N prompt of the upgrade command.01:32
fsmithredno, it doesnt do that. But at least you can see everything you really need to.01:32
bgstack15I almost hacked the source of apt-get to get that, but I think the data structure passed to that function didn't include the repo name/url and I didn't feel comfortable modifying that struct to include it, because then I would have to go farther back to whatever populated it and add it.01:32
bgstack15the apt-get -V upgrade parameter will get you one package name per line, with target version! That's pretty handy.01:33
bgstack15But still no repo name.01:33
bgstack15Yum is slow, but its output has always made more sense to me, probably because I came from that world.01:34
specingbgstack15: which version of devuan are you on?01:34
bgstack15Ceres01:34
bgstack15have to be Ceres, because of freeipa packages.01:34
specingI'm on ascii01:34
specingwell, the server is. I'm still mostly on Gentoo01:34
fsmithredapt list --upgradable01:34
bgstack15sudo apt-get list --upgradable | column -t isn't so bad01:36
fsmithreduhhh...  yum is in the repo. Not sure why.01:36
bgstack15for the same reason humans climb Mt. Everest...01:36
fsmithredlol01:36
specingI wish distros would take security seriously and had at least one enforcing MAC subsystem enabled01:39
specingby default01:39
bgstack15There probably are distros out there that do that.01:39
specingyes, Fedora/CentOS/RHEL01:39
bgstack15I'm old-school and used to turning things on the way I want.01:39
bgstack15I have hardened RHEL 7 systems to DISA STIG level.01:39
bgstack15You want locked down, stinkin' root could be locked out of stuff!01:39
bgstack15Made me feel sad.01:40
specingit's still not as locked as a modern android phone01:40
specingSELinux really shines there01:40
bgstack15I will take your word for it. Sorry, I know nothing about fancy little objects that fit in the hand.01:40
bgstack15(or two hands)01:40
specingOh, Ubuntu also has Apparmor by default01:46
EHeMNow I need to adjust to how `make bindeb-pkg` differs from `make-kpkg`...03:31
se7enI was dist-upgrading and ran into a dependency hell04:48
se7endpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/libgstreamer-gl1.0-0_1.14.4-2_amd64.deb (--unpack):04:48
se7en trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgstgl-1.0.so.0', which is also in package libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0:amd64 1:1.10.4-dmo204:48
se7enErrors were encountered while processing:04:48
se7en /var/cache/apt/archives/libgstreamer-gl1.0-0_1.14.4-2_amd64.deb04:49
se7enE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)04:49
se7enAttempt to manually remove zenity and surf04:49
se7enNo solution04:49
se7enThe majority of the update has failed due to these packages04:50
se7enI am trying the non-standard `apt -f dist-upgrade` rather than trying to fix the individual package hell04:51
gnarfacekeep looking for packages to remove04:52
se7enAs a result of the failed upgrade, I have no locale and it defaults to C04:52
gnarfaceran into this but not with that package, so i can't give you specific advice04:52
gnarface(for me it was va-driver-all)04:53
gnarface(but the complaint was about something it pointed to in turn - (maybe mesa-va-drivers?) - which was itself pretty much immutable04:53
gnarface)04:53
se7enIt stopped again04:54
se7enUnpacking bash (5.0-4) over (4.4-5) ...04:54
se7enErrors were encountered while processing:04:54
se7en /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-5PXMCS/17-libgstreamer-gl1.0-0_1.14.4-2_amd64.deb04:54
se7enE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)04:54
se7enI think I've been able to pass by it with apt -f remove --auto-remove surf2 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 libgstreamer-gl1.0-0 zenity05:03
se7enI hope that I am able to install surf2 back without issue05:03
gnarfacehmm. very interesting.  that error looks identical, except for it being from a completely different package05:04
se7enWell, please note it then05:04
se7enAnd perhaps the collective can discover the cause05:04
gnarfacelike i said, it was for va-driver-all, and i was NOT able to reinstall it, but i also wasn't able to actually use it while it was installed so i am not sweating it05:04
gnarfacethe problem was that the complaint was about one of it's dependencies: mesa-va-drivers (i think)05:05
gnarface(which i think did actually inexplicably reinstall fine, so maybe this is just a snafu about a deprecated meta-package or something...)05:06
gnarfacei'm using a old nvidia card with nouveau in that machine, and vaapi never worked on it anyway, so i can't even actually test the ultimate consequence of this in any fashion relevant to other users, sorry05:06
gnarfacebut the form of that error - identical.  this suggests something more fundamental is wrong here, i can't say for sure what but maybe a change in apt itself?05:07
gnarfacetry aptitude05:08
gnarfaceit might not work but it might show you something05:08
se7enI was using `aptitude why [problemPackage]05:09
gnarfacealso maybe try randomly apt-get installing things within 1 or two steps above and below that package in the dependency tree05:09
se7enI'm waiting for the upgrade to finish05:09
gnarfacepart of the issue was the red herrings being neighbors of the actual target, and the error message being otherwise right05:09
se7enAfter running that command it began to run the upgrade again without incident, and is currently compiling locales05:09
gnarfacefascinating05:10
se7enI plan to run dist-upgrade again after this completion, and will attempt to reinstall my packages05:10
gnarfacegood luck05:10
se7enI finished, and am now running dist-upgrade again05:15
se7en23% completed05:21
se7enI believe that apt is reinstalling the former dependencies that reached dependency hell05:24
se7enI've seen similar package names flash by05:25
se7enIt's 30 minutes until I go into work05:28
se7enI may be unable to finish this05:28
EHeMAh, more on the NFS issue; looks like the problem I'm running into showed up somewhere between 4.19.0-8-amd64 (4.19.98-1+deb10u1) and 4.19.0-9-amd64 (4.19.118-2).05:29
se7enNew error05:32
se7enErrors were encountered while processing:05:32
se7en /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-4qiAR1/0169-gstreamer1.0-plugins-base_1.14.4-2_amd64.deb05:33
se7en /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-4qiAR1/0180-gstreamer1.0-plugins-good_1.14.4-1_amd64.deb05:33
se7en /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-4qiAR1/0590-libgstreamer-gl1.0-0_1.14.4-2_amd64.deb05:33
se7enE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)05:33
se7enY05:33
se7enDO NOT DO THIS05:36
se7enapt -f remove --auto-remove libwebkit2gtk-4streamer-gl1.0-0 gstreamer1.0-plugins-base gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad gstreamer1.0-plugins-good gnome-video-effects cheese libcheese8 libcheese-gtk25 surf05:36
se7enThis just led to almost every single package being removed05:36
se7enNow I'm afraid to even turn of my machine05:37
syco-welcome to deb dependency inferno05:37
gnarfacewell, no going back now, only going forwards05:40
gnarfacejust don't reboot it while there's no installed kernels05:40
se7enI think it has finished05:44
se7enI am running `apt update` again, and will attempt to run `apt dist-upgrade`05:44
se7enAnd try to get back `surf` and other programs05:44
furrywolfyou should always look at the list of things to be added/removed/etc, and not continue if it looks broken05:45
se7enThat was at least five pages of differences, furrywolf05:45
* syco- fears dist-upgrades05:45
se7enHas netsurf been removed from the repo?05:45
se7enOk, I thin this is done05:47
se7enI'm going to go to work and hope that when I turn back on my computer, it's ok05:47
frabbiti want to add a specific user in /etc/fstab to allow only this user to mount a specific device. ive tried uid=1000 but that doenst work, also defaults,uid=1000. man says theres is no uid oprions for defaults only suid but with that i get error when trying to mount the device (its probably something different...)07:05
gnarfacefrabbit: read the man pages more carefully.  not all filesystems support specifying a user, and some of them (like fat16/32) do something with it other than what you're expecting07:12
frabbit=(07:13
frabbitgnarface: i had just searched for uid07:14
frabbitin fstab man07:14
gnarfaceif you need this to work for a specific user and a specific device, you probably should add a custom udev rule for it07:14
gnarfaceand if you just need to allow one user to mount stuff, there's a pre-defined system group to add them to (cdrom i think?)07:15
frabbitdoesnt need a user just to be in group cdrom to mount them?07:16
gnarfaceyes07:17
gnarfacedoes, you mean, i think07:17
gnarfacebut... keep in mind that the ability to mount or unmount a given disk is separate permission from the filesystem permissions of the filesystem on the disk07:18
gnarfacedon't get the two confused07:18
gnarfaceit's easy to get them confused07:18
frabbitso how would a non membership in that group avoid from mounting usbs?07:18
frabbiter what?07:18
gnarfacemaybe you have it backwrads07:18
frabbitdisk permission <-> fs permission?07:19
frabbitdeiference?07:19
gnarfacenot equal07:19
frabbit*difference07:19
frabbitok07:19
gnarfacecorrect, disk permission and filesystem permission are not equal07:19
frabbitman mount says: uid=value07:20
frabbitSet the owner and group of the root of the filesystem07:20
frabbitbut i dont want to change owners...07:20
gnarfaceright, but if you'll look carefully where it says that, it's saying that under options for specific filesystems, and right, it's referring to *filesystem* ownership, not mount permission07:20
gnarfaceright07:21
gnarfacei think you're catching on now07:21
gnarfacethat's usually for filesystems that don't support multiple users so you can set a default other than root07:21
frabbitstackexchange has lied to me...07:21
gnarfacethat is known to happen07:21
frabbithttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/204641/automatically-mount-a-drive-using-etc-fstab-and-limiting-access-to-all-users-o07:22
gnarfacebut he metions it's for FAT specifically07:23
gnarfaceyou just have to read more carefully07:23
frabbityeah i dont have always so much time...07:24
gnarfacebut rushing sometimes uses time less efficiently in cases like this07:24
frabbitinternet sucks...07:24
frabbitsearch engines were ment to type in a question and get an answer that fits, but nowadays im getting 98% bullshit07:25
gnarfacei agree google could do better at this and they actually used to do so07:25
gnarfacebut that's not a devuan support issue07:26
frabbiti dont use google directly07:26
frabbityeah ot07:26
frabbitthousand time uid here that sucks!07:31
frabbit*times07:31
frabbitcant it be easy? and if not why not?07:32
frabbitis this intent to be like this, to sperate the beginners from the experts, to create a elit? why can i not write a fucking sentence in fstab or where ever: "here this device with id foobar mount there only this user id" yes i know it is like that but NOT intuitive07:34
frabbituid means different thing for different fs.. wtf?!07:36
frabbitwhy? wich ashole thought that this would be a good idea?07:36
se7enI have returned10:02
se7enAnd there are a /lot/ of problems10:02
se7enFor instance--and I believe this was in the changelog but I overlooked it-- /sbin is no longer in my path10:02
se7enNext, my mouse moves incredibly fast10:02
se7enWhat program can I use to change xmouse sensitivity?10:02
se7enAnd also, my custom script for dnscrypt-proxy no longer works10:03
se7enI hope someone is here who was here earlier10:03
se7enAlso, something happened to my default fonts to make them look ugly10:04
gnarfacewell the first one is easy anyway, add /sbin back into /etc/login.defs10:09
gnarfacethere was also a change to su so path isn't inherited by default anymore, you have to use "su -"10:09
gnarfacedunno about the other ones10:10
gnarfacemouse is gonna depend on your driver, you might have to change mouse drivers10:10
freemHello. Congratulations for the 3.0 release. I have some questions about it, if you don't mind. 1st, is it possible to use (c)debootstrap(-static) to install it? 2nd, can aptitude now show the package's descriptions? And 3rd, is it based on Debian 10, which would maybe imply using close runit-init package?11:03
freemThe aptitude and debootrap points are the ones which made go back to debian, basically, but switching to devuan anew could maybe allow me to rely less on self-built packages, which would be nice.11:05
freemalso, would allow me to not need to register my nick on OFTC when I want to submit suggestions about, for example, runit-init script improvements.11:07
freem(with code I actually use and is pretty trivial)11:07
gnarfacefreem: debootstrap should work if you use the devuan debootstrap.  long package descriptions are broken currently due to a bug in the repo software with regards to internationalization.   it's based on debian buster, whichever that one is (their current stable) so the package versions should all be identical11:23
freemgnarface: thanks for the info11:29
freemsince it's broken with i18n, does it means that the english descriptions work?11:29
gnarfacefreem: i think the answer is no, sorry11:39
freemoh, well...11:40
freemis there is a link to the issue?11:40
freemI'm curious to read about it11:40
gnarfacegood question11:40
gnarfacehere it is: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22811:41
gnarfacethe descriptions from debian are still valid though, you can use packages.debian.org if you really need to, i think11:42
freemty11:45
* ShorTie Thinkz, Devuan debootstrap is http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/debootstrap12:37
freem^ this redirects to an httpS version, which has: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID12:39
ShorTieSorry, link works fine for me12:40
onefangdeb.devuan.org is our package mirror DNS round robin.12:40
freemwell, I can just go through the security warning, it's not like I have any personal data to send to a collection of packages anyway12:40
freemI got error with vivaldi (chromium based) that I can't overcome, and warnings with firefox (that are annoying to overcome). Just for info. Using debian 10.12:41
onefangYou will get sent to one of the mirrors.  Use it via HTTP instead of HTTPS, coz none of them will have a valid cert for the deb.devuan.org domain name12:41
freemI tried it, but I had automatic redirection?12:41
freemah, not with FF though12:42
freemweird.12:42
freemty for the link anyway12:43
ShorTieNo Problem12:43
gnarfacefreem: yes, there's lots of redirection involved12:48
gnarfacefreem: all the unchanged packages in fact, which is most of them, are served by redirect12:48
freemI remember this, but I was more surprised by the ssl stuff on previous link12:48
gnarfacewell, some of the mirrors will do https right if you pick them directly12:49
gnarfacerather than going through the dns round-robin12:49
gnarfacebut if you go through the round robin it will often fail12:49
onefangMost of the mirrors support direct HTTPS.12:50
freemanyway, it's fine for me. I just wanted to report the issue :)12:52
freemif you know about it already, then fine.12:52
onefangMy apt-panopticon mirror checker already checks for mirrors doing this sort of redirect.12:53
miojoGood morning!12:58
miojoThank you, for the Beowulf release!12:59
freemmorning.12:59
miojoThanks to Devuan, i escaped from the systemd-resolved13:00
freemresolved?13:00
miojoYes -> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-resolved.service.html13:00
miojoThis was driving me crazy on Debian13:01
freemare there packages in debian that depends on this... tool?13:01
miojodon't know. but it came by default13:02
miojoand i admin a lot of servers13:02
miojoso13:02
miojoby debian13:02
* freem is currently on debian 10, with init => runit-init13:02
* miojo freem good luck with that13:03
freemworks fine, but I'm annoyed that I can't use stuff like kcachegrind, because it pulls KDE, which would pull systemd.13:03
freemI running that since years actually :)13:03
freemnot using big desktop, though.13:03
miojofor me, devuan solved my problems without even think about pkgs or deps anymore13:04
freemwhich is nice13:04
freemdon't take me wrong, I don't say devuan does not help, otherwise I would not be willing to try it anew.13:04
miojoall right , i have to go now13:06
miojohave a nice day :)13:06
miojobbl13:06
freemsame for you13:06
jslHi. Trying to boot (and later install) "beowolf" under VirtualBox (6.1.8, Host Win10). System will have a 16GB hdd and 4GB RAM. Nothing special. Problem is, that the initial boot hangs at `Mountpoint-cache hash table entries: 8192 (order...)`14:00
frabbitpinta chrashes here when i try to edit photos 4 example. i get: "*** Error in `/usr/bin/mono': malloc(): memory corruption: 0x000055cbfe4c4b20 ***" and then alot of debugging output...14:00
jslAnybody knows whats going on in VirtualBox?14:00
frabbit"memory corruption" does that mean my ram is broken?14:01
frabbithttps://paste.debian.net/plainh/20b111c214:04
enycfor exapmel,  devuan  beowulf ... how to update an existing system and get rid of apt-secure mwarnings ...14:16
enycall these FAQs about existing systems updated to beowulf (not the same as new installs) need handling14:16
frabbitenyc: make a fresh install14:16
enycfrabbit: I may be able to re-cycle a different disk for that in time....14:16
enycfrabbit: why?  why can't these updae-faqs be handled?14:16
frabbitenyc: u need to ask maintainers for that, but my experience teached me to make a frsh instalkl is always less hurting14:17
enycfrabbit: i have osmewhat complex, lots of packages, services, desktop ,...14:17
enycfrabbit: whic I could do but complex. and in any case there will be others whove already 'upgraded' to beowulf before official release  (like me, helped testing, writing our grumbles, and so on!)14:18
frabbitespacially for debina based derivates, i mean look how many versions between oldstable and stable... issues are probably not to avoid...14:18
frabbitversions of programs you have installed14:19
frabbityesterday i need to realize that some configs are now in different dirs for some programs... thats anoying even after a fresh install and thats enough trouble for me after i "upgraded", no need for more here while making an apt-get dist-upgrade14:21
enycfrabbit: I  sensible have set of sysetm disks so i can switch disk14:21
frabbitenyc:  i dont undertsand sorry14:22
frabbit*understand14:22
bolti[m]Hi, I've been using linux in the last months, and I'm considering use Devuan, but I have a question, what are some disadvantages of using an old kernel version?14:29
enycfrabbit: I have extra system disks in machine so i can re-use another to 'install' a replacement devuan14:31
enycfrabbit: withou affecting 'working' system14:32
frabbitenyc: oh ok14:32
enycfrabbit: then start transferring stuff across and things like that!14:32
frabbitenyc: sound good then just do it =)14:32
frabbitbolti[m]: "old" kernel...14:32
frabbitits still supported14:32
bolti[m]yeah, "old"14:33
bolti[m]but I have an amd radeon as cpu, it will work fine?14:33
gnarfacebolti[m]: if it doesn't, you can always use the backports kernel14:33
frabbitdisadvantage is that u get rid of brand new kernel breaks something again and u nedd to figuere out what xD14:33
gnarfacebolti[m]: try one of the live images14:33
frabbityeah test it first14:34
bolti[m]okay, I will test14:34
frabbitalso u could use the linu-libre repo for deb14:34
frabbitthere u can get the newest kernel version too14:34
frabbit#linux-libre14:35
frabbitwhat are these tools called that monitors ur cpu, ram usage and so on on ur desktop?14:36
frabbitim sure i had something like that years ago but i cant remember the name...14:36
bolti[m]How is your experience with devuan?14:36
bolti[m]task manager?14:37
frabbitbolti[m]: my2cent: i can reconize no difference between debian that i used before for years and devuan14:37
frabbitlol yeah of course a taskmanager xD i mean it is sticked to the background or something and display it live... i3 has this by default ithink...14:38
frabbitits eyecandy, but good for beginners imho14:40
bolti[m]conky14:40
onefangYep, conky14:40
frabbityes!14:42
frabbitthx =D14:43
frabbiti had a mnemonic with Donky Conky i rememeber now xD14:43
bolti[m]devuan live it's not starting XFCE14:47
frabbitbolti[m]: do u have live minimal eventually?14:48
fsmithrednew hardware?14:48
bolti[m]amd ryzen 3500u14:48
bolti[m]I downloaded live version14:48
fsmithredhang on...14:48
bolti[m]and running startx on tty doesn't work either14:50
fsmithredyou got an internet connection?14:50
bolti[m]it's a notebook14:51
bolti[m]which network manager devuan used?14:51
fsmithredwicd14:51
bolti[m]I've read somewhere that doesn't use NetowrkManager14:51
fsmithredbut if you have console, you can get a connection14:52
fsmithredusing ethernet? (easier)14:52
fsmithreddhclient eth014:52
bolti[m]my notebook doesn't have ethernet14:52
fsmithredwhat wireless hardware?14:52
bolti[m]I don't know the model14:54
bolti[m]but it recognizes wlan0 interface14:54
fsmithredwicd-curses (I think)14:55
bolti[m]wicd-cli doesn't work14:55
bolti[m]how do I connect using wifi?14:56
fsmithredwpasupplicant14:56
fsmithredbut I don't know off the top of my head how to do that14:56
fsmithredor configure it in /etc/network/interfaces14:57
fsmithredtry this one. It has backports kernel and also firmware-amd-graphics installed. https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.4bpo-20200428_1527.iso14:57
frabbitbolti[m]: 14:54 < fsmithred> or configure it in /etc/network/interfaces - if u do this staically without dhcp and it will work, please let me know what u have done ;)14:58
frabbit*statically14:58
fsmithredfrabbit, scroll to bottom for an example: https://refracta.org/docs/Release_Notes_9.0.txt14:59
fsmithredbolti[m] could use that, too15:00
bolti[m]what is refracta?15:00
fsmithreda devuan respin15:00
fsmithredthat I make15:00
fsmithredI also make the official devuan live isos15:01
fsmithredRefracta used to be a debian respin until jessie15:01
bolti[m]I guess I will pass from devuan15:03
bolti[m]Maybe I will try again in some time15:04
frabbitfsmithred: thank u, but that looks nearly the same that gnarface told me to do and that didnt worked for me... but i will try it again later ;)15:04
bolti[m]thanks for your kindness and help15:04
frabbitbolti[m]: xD15:04
frabbitbolti[m]: you serious?15:05
bolti[m]yes15:06
frabbitbolti[m]: dont give up or poettering will eat your eyes ;P15:06
bolti[m]I don't feel like I'm ready for this, I don't know too much about linux15:06
bolti[m]So I will learn more, and then try again15:06
frabbitbolti[m]: hmm.. you need to report whats not working15:06
frabbitelse no one can help u...15:07
bolti[m]I'm almost sure that it's the cpu15:07
bolti[m]+ gpu15:07
fsmithredtry the test iso with the backports kernel15:07
bolti[m]that uses a devuan 2.0?15:08
fsmithredyou know how to image a usb stick?15:08
fsmithredno, that's devuan 3.0 which got released a couple days ago - it's the current stable15:08
bolti[m]what do you mean with image? ( I don't speak english natively)15:09
bolti[m]You mean like creating a bootable usb?15:09
frabbitman.. with running conky here i can cook meal with my heatsink xD15:09
fsmithredyes15:09
fsmithredbootable usb15:09
bolti[m]yes, I know15:09
fsmithredso image a usb stick with the test iso and see if it runs15:09
bolti[m]Okay15:09
bolti[m]sorry for this questions, but It will compatible with all devuan updates?15:10
fsmithredoh, if you install that? Yes, it uses only devuan repository15:10
bolti[m]distro upgrades should work too?15:10
fsmithredyes15:11
bolti[m]okay, i'm downloading it15:11
fsmithredbut that might not be the best choice of packages for you - it's a lean system that doesn't have a fancy desktop environment15:11
bolti[m]I'm using a wm currently15:12
fsmithredoh, cool. This one has openbox plus lxpanel15:12
bolti[m]I've never used openbox15:13
fsmithredwhich one you use?15:13
bolti[m]openbox is a DE o WM?15:13
fsmithredwm15:13
bolti[m]I like tiling windows manager15:13
bolti[m]I've been using qtile, and recently I started to use dwm15:13
frabbitbolti[m]: then use dwm =)15:13
frabbitcool!15:13
fsmithredwell, if those are in debian/devuan repos, you can install them15:14
bolti[m]yes15:14
frabbityes dwm is in devuan15:14
bolti[m]But i prefer source code in that case15:14
frabbitother suckless software too ;)15:14
fsmithredok, so maybe this is the right iso for you15:14
bolti[m]I'm only worried about a updated system15:15
fsmithredother than the name and some configuration tweaks, it's devuan15:15
fsmithredso any upgrades you do will come from devuan repos15:15
bolti[m]And I'm kind of beginner in linux, I don't know if I can solve many problems without a guide or documentation15:15
fsmithredthat's how you learn15:16
frabbitbolti[m]: ur a beginner but using dwm? o_015:17
bolti[m]Well,  I know programming15:17
frabbitah ok15:17
fsmithredhere's an old but good beginner's guide: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5855715:18
bolti[m]Not an expert either, but I like and I do as hobby15:18
bolti[m]I started to learn C to understand better linux too15:18
frabbitfsmithred: thats a good guide! =o15:20
fsmithredthat was written before a big exodus from that site15:20
frabbiti see15:21
bolti[m]thanks, I will save it15:21
fsmithredbolti[m], if you want to install that live system, here's a guide for the installer: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/live-gui15:21
bolti[m]yeah, but I couln't reach to xfce15:22
fsmithredI have to go out pretty soon15:22
fsmithredno xfce in that iso, but you could add it later15:22
fsmithredno need to xfce to do the install. Different system but same installer.15:22
bolti[m]how can I connect to wifi?15:22
fsmithredtry wicd - it's installed15:22
fsmithredupper right in the panel15:22
bolti[m]oh, so your iso it's a installer15:23
fsmithredit has an installer. Not the same as the regular debian installer.15:23
fsmithredthis one makes rsync copy of the live system onto the hard drive.15:23
fsmithredpartitioning is fully manual.15:23
bolti[m]okay15:23
fsmithredif you want raid or lvm, it won't do it, but there's a way you can set that up manually and then use the non-gui version of the installer15:24
bolti[m]and it uses devuan 3.0? because in the website it says it uses devuan 215:24
fsmithredanother possibility is you wait for maybe a few days or a week and I get ambitious enough to make a devuan xfce iso with backports kernel15:25
fsmithredwhich? what?15:25
bolti[m]no problem for that15:25
bolti[m]I can install that15:25
fsmithredthe iso I linked for you uses beowulf with beowulf-backports kernel15:25
bolti[m]https://refracta.org/docs/Release_Notes_9.0.txt15:26
fsmithredofficial Refracta isos are still based on ascii, I did make some betas with beowulf15:26
bolti[m]I guess this are old release notes15:26
bolti[m]but just in case15:26
bgstack15fsmithred: I finally got around to trying that chimaera live iso. Unfortunately the main boot menu option just boot-cycles on my hardware.15:26
bolti[m]I will test the iso now15:26
fsmithredanything in my experimental directory is fair game for me to play or go crazy15:26
bgstack15Is it possible taht my 2007-era Dell Latitude D630 isn't using the right components (UEFI or something)?15:26
fsmithredbgstack15, bios or uefi15:26
fsmithred2007 should work15:26
bgstack15it'll be cbios15:27
bgstack15*bios15:27
bolti[m]it worked15:27
bolti[m]at least now I'm in lxde15:27
fsmithrednot quite lxde15:27
fsmithredabout halfway there15:28
fsmithredopenbox, lxpanel, lxterminal, spacefm15:28
bolti[m]network doesn't appear to work15:28
bolti[m]No wireless networks found15:28
bolti[m]oh15:28
fsmithredlspci | grep -i net15:28
bolti[m]I doesn't recognize wlan015:28
fsmithredbgstack15, I've only booted it in qemu so far15:29
bolti[m]> lspci | grep -i net15:29
bolti[m]that shows the wifi ada`pter15:29
bolti[m]ip link doesn't15:29
fsmithredwhat model is it?15:30
frabbitbolti[m]: ... u r not a beginner15:30
fsmithredlol, you noticed that, too.15:30
bolti[m]RTL8822BE15:30
frabbitanyway ill take a a nap15:30
fsmithredok15:30
frabbitfsmithred: yeah =D15:30
fsmithredapt update15:30
bolti[m]well, I feel  like that15:31
fsmithredapt install firmware-realtek15:31
fsmithredwait15:31
frabbitbolti[m]: what should i say then? xD15:31
fsmithredit should already be installed15:31
frabbithappy hacking ;)15:31
bolti[m]but I don't have internet15:31
bolti[m]so I cant use apt15:31
fsmithredok, maybe the post I found that says it won't work until 5.7 kernel is right15:31
bolti[m]> happy hacking ;)15:31
bolti[m]thanks :D15:31
fsmithredlsmod | grep rtl15:32
fsmithreddon't post the output here15:32
fsmithredjust check to see if some rtl modules got loaded or not15:32
bolti[m]brtl15:33
bolti[m]and bluethooth15:33
fsmithredoh15:33
fsmithredtry 'modprobe -v realtek'15:33
fsmithredthen refresh wicd15:33
bolti[m]modprobe not found15:34
fsmithredoh, /sbin/modprobe -v realtek15:34
bolti[m]how to refresh wicd?15:35
bolti[m]like sv restart wicd?15:35
bolti[m]I've only use systemd before15:35
fsmithredclick on the button that says Refresh15:36
fsmithredin wicd15:36
bolti[m]oh15:36
fsmithredI think that's what it says. Maybe reload?15:36
bolti[m]It still shows no wireless found15:36
fsmithredalso try ip link again15:37
bolti[m]ip link doesn't show wlan btw, just lo15:37
fsmithredor check preferences in wicd to make sure def15:37
fsmithredshit15:37
fsmithredI have to go15:37
fsmithredsome parting thoughts...15:37
fsmithredwait few weeks and there will be a newer iso with newer kernel15:38
bolti[m]okay15:38
bolti[m]thanks for your help :)15:38
fsmithredor pull hard drive and connect it to a box that has ethernet, install, put it back in laptop15:38
bolti[m]really15:38
fsmithredyou'll learn a lot that way and probably curse me for a few days15:38
bolti[m]maybe with phone internet share?15:38
fsmithredoh15:39
fsmithredyes, tethering should work15:39
bolti[m]and what should I install?15:39
fsmithredwith usb cable to the android device15:39
fsmithredI think it's already installed15:39
fsmithredshould show up on desktop when you plug in15:39
fsmithredset up tethering in android15:39
fsmithredset wicd default wireless device to be probably usb015:40
fsmithrednote:if you make the wicd window bigger, you'll see where Preferences are hiding.15:40
fsmithredgood luck15:40
fsmithredbbl15:40
bolti[m]but what should I have to install?15:40
bolti[m]yes usb015:41
fsmithredfirmware-amd-graphics15:42
fsmithredyou have a partition to install the system?15:42
bolti[m]yes15:42
bolti[m]I can't connect using wicd15:43
bolti[m]in wireless interface I set usb015:43
fsmithreddon't need it to install the system to hard drive15:43
fsmithredRefresh15:43
fsmithreddidn't work15:43
fsmithredreally gotta go now15:43
bolti[m]Not connected15:43
fsmithredback in about 4 hours15:43
bolti[m]okay15:43
fsmithredclick the connect button?15:44
bolti[m]no connect button15:44
bolti[m]no problem, we can continue later15:44
bolti[m]maybe you can add my phone number and speak trough telegram15:44
bolti[m]it wroked15:48
bolti[m]All packages that I guess I would need are installed15:55
bolti[m]and no wifi15:56
eyalrozCongratulations everyone for the release of Beowulf16:08
eyalroz!16:08
* enyc reads https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/Release_notes.txt 16:12
enycWhen I get a chance I will  test new-install and see if any of the existing beowulf issues recur!!!16:15
enycI have had weird issues with  multiple different gui  applications taking  100% cpu until-killed16:16
enycalso had isssue with  udev not initiliazied early enough in starteup16:16
enychave just rebooted with (fully updated) 'existing' devuan and see how that goes.16:17
specingSo, anyone has an idea how to enable apparmor?18:43
specing /etc/init.d.apparmor start fails due to no systemd, and still doesen't start anything when the systemd call is removed18:44
sixwheeledbeastif it's installed it would start at boot or spit an error message as to why it hasn't19:01
SGOravaHello, I did not expect that so many people will be here.19:31
AlexTIs anybody from devuan team listening ? devuan.org uses these two NS records on the registrar end: ns2.devuan.dev, ns3.devuan.dev. ".dev" is quite new and I had issues on customer name servers with these ".dev" names. I know the bug was on my customers end, but for better availability devuan should use more and more common names for it's name19:32
AlexTservers.19:32
HumanoidI'm using the net install in expert mode.  I'm having 2 problems.19:43
Humanoid1- It won't let me install on a partition that I already created my own ext4 filesystem on.19:43
Humanoid2- If I tell it to create its own filesystem, it doesn't support ext3 or ext4, but only ext2.19:43
sixwheeledbeastFirefox still has weird issues with .dev domains that I don't believe are fixed yet, back from them being a test only domain.19:44
XelraaSGOrava why?19:48
Xelraadevuan is the only true debian19:49
Xelraadebian as you know it does not exist anymore19:49
Xelraaso why wouldnt we be here19:49
SGOravaXelraa: We have less than 50 users on IRC at the moment at #artix19:49
SGOravaXelraa: Debian is dead ? I only heard that they are too politically correct and that they use systemd.19:50
Xelraaread wikipedia what happened with ian murdock so yeah u can say offically that distro is dead19:51
Xelraamaybe its time for a name change for debian ReiserIANSystemDIAN19:51
kiwi_58Hello, commented out the lines "deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main" and co. in /etc/apt/sources.list, but I still got the message "deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main " when doing: apt-get build-dep linux. Anybody an idea? Thanks.19:51
kiwi_58I wish however devuan's long living. (:19:52
kiwi_58the message was mom19:53
kiwi_58pardon: [1]E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list19:54
kiwi_58        deb-src http://site.example.com/debian distribution19:54
Humanoidkiwi_58: Did you remember to do "apt-get update"?19:54
kiwi_58ok19:56
SGOravaXelraa: no idea19:57
HumanoidThe beowulf net installer is full of bugs.  Are there any instructions on using debootstrap to do everything?19:58
MrPetovanHi, I just got the email about the release of Beowulf, I updated my sources.lost, ran `apt update` but a couple of files have mismatch checksum and have been ignored20:00
kiwi_58Humanoid:  thanks20:01
MrPetovanNever mind, running `apt clean` first solved the mismatch20:03
ejrhi guys. i love devuan, and i want to keep on using it, but whenever i run a bare minimum installation of devuan (3.0) with either wpa_supplicant + dhclient for getting online, or alternatively using wicd, i always get very laggy or unstable, slow connections.21:20
ejri am 100% positive that it is devuan-related because I have also tried several other distros with my other SSD for a while, yet i cannot figure out which package or setting is responsible for this.21:21
XelraaSSD has nothing to do with wifi21:35
Xelraaso dont even mention21:35
Xelraawicd is a pile of shit21:35
Xelraajust shell script wpa client and iwconfig21:36
Xelraadont use connection managers like that or avahi21:36
Xelraabut tbh you have another problem21:36
teknopaulhi all, installing beowolf, version just downloaded today, intel nuc. Guided install is working, manual partitions only has fat32, swap and ext2. No ext4,  is this a known issue or should I raise a bug?21:37
Xelraaejr start with try other channels on your wifi AP and check for interference21:37
tuxd3vXelraa, you can always use ceni :)21:37
Xelraathere are channel scanner programs for your phone check which is not used21:37
fsmithredteknopaul, someone else reported that but I could not reproduce it.21:37
fsmithredmaybe bad download or bad burn?21:38
Xelraaeven if it says that channel X is not used then if you use another laptop on your own next to your other one it can massively worsen wifi transition21:38
fsmithredteknopaul, which iso are you using?21:38
teknopaulmaybe a bad downlaod but if its repeatable?  etc4 seems to be working for guided21:38
teknopaulnot finished the install I'll report more details21:39
fsmithredok, thanks21:39
ejrXelraa: yes, i actually prefer just using wpa_supplicant + dhclient - less dependencies etc.. i tried wicd and also once nm to see if that solves the problem, but it does not21:39
ejri don't use a smartphone but i will check out how i can check whether it's due to the wifi channel, thanks21:40
teknopaulsha256sum checks out on the download21:43
teknopaulnot sure if its related: hardware scanning failed on the wifi, I said no to installing firmware, not planning to use wifi.  Is the someelse contactable? Maybe we can find something common in our setups?21:50
bgstack15fsmithred: dumb question, but does the chimaera iso include nonfree drivers? I'm guessing my wireless network card is not supported by whatever driver sets are included.22:18
fsmithrednope22:18
fsmithredI just made another one that has the firmware packages in a directory22:18
fsmithredwhat card you got?22:19
bgstack15(no lspci either!)22:22
bgstack15it'll be the bog standard wnic for Dell Latitude D630, so let me look that up22:23
bgstack15I had no idea its name was "Dell Wireless 1395"22:23
bgstack15and dang, connman looks just like NM22:24
teknopauldevuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64-server.iso22:27
sgageWhere can one find a Chimaera ISO?22:38
golinuxhttps://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/22:40
sgageThanks golinux! I've got an upgraded ascii>beowulf>chimaera,22:45
sgagebut I think it's time for a fresh start!22:46
golinuxYou are adventurous!22:46
sgageWell, I have a spare partition ;-)22:47
fsmithredsgage, maybe wait until the next iso gets uploaded23:12
fsmithredbgstack15, looks like you have a broadcom wireless23:16
fsmithredb43-something23:16
sgagefsmithred - will do. I will check from time to time...23:16
fsmithredwell, maybe check in an hour23:16
sgageoh, goodie!23:17
fsmithreduploading now. This one has lspci.23:20
sixwheeledbeastfirmware-b43-installer ?23:21
fsmithredbgstack15, this next iso has firmware packages, but I think for23:21
fsmithredyeah23:21
fsmithredwhich is catch 2223:21
fsmithredyou must have a network connection to download the firmware for your wireless card23:21
sgageGreat! I'll get it after supper...23:22
fsmithredif that's the case, I'll get the actual files to you another way. If I put them in the iso, I am liable for any actions against broadcom.23:23
fsmithredforgot dark star23:28
sixwheeledbeastI think the installer pulls them from broadcom via wget?23:28
fsmithredI added also but no audio test file23:29
fsmithredif you have ethernet...23:29
sixwheeledbeastoh i see23:29
fsmithredand this is refractainstaller, so it doesn't pull anything23:29
fsmithredjust copies from the live media23:29
fsmithredalso/alsa23:33
fsmithredls23:34
fsmithredupload finished: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/snapshot_chimaera_01-20200605_2006.iso23:36
sgage... burning it to USB stick now.23:55

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