freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-06-06

bgstack15yes, my Latitude D630 does have Ethernet. I was just going to try the wireless operations with connman. And it wouldn't surprise me if the hardware is actually broadcom. I certainly remember having to use b43-installer something something in the past, but I can't remember for which hardware.00:24
gnarfaceif ejr comes back, someone make sure they've tried something more recent than the stock ascii kernel on it00:34
gnarface(it would probably also help to clarify for them that the problem is almost certainly solely linked to a kernel major version difference)00:35
* systemdlete2 reads the beowulf release notes and thinks, hmmmm...02:11
systemdlete2eudev and elogin:  "e" prefix is for... what, emancipated?02:12
* systemdlete2 has not installed official beowulf anywhere yet...02:12
gnarfacei thought it was "e" for European but i don't know02:15
golinuxAsk gentoo.  We got it from the,02:15
* systemdlete2 likes "emancipated"02:16
golinuxE also comes after D02:17
golinuxso alphabetically trumps D.  OT here though02:17
systemdlete2as in, trumps Donald Trump?02:20
yetithey call elogind extreacted from systemd02:22
yetimaybe eudev has the same e as elogind02:22
phoggeudev came first, so if anything it's the other way around02:27
yetihavent touched gentoo since its 1.08 (or so days)02:32
systemdlete2My attempt at gentoo from 2003 is still compiling02:36
systemdlete2(I chose "everything")02:37
syco-u run it on a x386 ? :p02:37
systemdlete2yes, but backwards, just for extra intrigue02:37
yeti2003 was more like K6-II+@50002:38
systemdlete2does beowulf have any better support for wireless than ascii?  I am finding that my asus laptop (cherry trail) loses wireless after a while... sometimes. What I mean is that it is very intermittent.02:41
systemdlete2laptop is on ascii atm.  Thinking of upgrading, but won't bother for now if beowulf doesn't bring more relief.02:41
golinuxsystemdlete2: Thank you for getting back OT02:48
systemdlete2so, inquiring about wireless support in Beowulf is not a support question?02:49
systemdlete2Sorry if so.02:49
man_in_shacknah you're fine systemdlete202:52
golinuxRe-read what I wrote02:52
man_in_shackor rewrite what he read02:52
golinuxOT can also mean On Topic02:52
systemdlete2So now OT can be used to confuse EVERYONE.02:52
systemdlete2Good to know.02:53
man_in_shackthere's the problem with using the same acronym for two opposites02:53
man_in_shacklike "literally" being used as "figuratively"02:53
golinuxAnd this discussion is Off Topic here02:53
systemdlete2man_in_shack:  YES!02:53
man_in_shackin other grammatical news ...02:54
bgstack15i am booting into that latest named iso file.03:38
bgstack15so I had to enable the non-free repo and install firmware-iwlwifi.03:47
bgstack15I can see the iwl4965 module is loaded03:47
bgstack15but still no "iwconfig" useful output03:47
bgstack15is there something i need to do, without rebooting, because after all this is the live boot?03:47
gnarfacehmm. did you add the firmware package after the iwl4965 module was already loaded? if so, i'd try unloading then reloading it03:48
golinuxIsn't there a command to start it?03:48
syco-in /proc/net/dev ?03:48
gnarfacein a fair world all you'd have to do is "/etc/init.d/networking restart" but in practice you have to have carefully setup the network first03:49
gnarfacebgstack15: i recall needing both ifconfig and iwconfig03:50
bgstack15i think the firmware package provided my iwl4965 module. but sure, i'll reload it03:50
gnarfacebgstack15: iwconfig doesn't completely reimplement all the features of ifconfig for wireless devices, it just suppliments a few missing ones03:50
gnarfacebgstack15: but you should be able to just ifup the wireless device if your network config is correct03:51
bgstack15thank you! the modprobe -r iwl4965 and modprobe iwl4965 did it!03:51
gnarfacei'm relieved03:51
bgstack15yeah, i'm doing all this in a live setup, to test fsmithred's iso with connman. I'm one of those die-hard wicd guys, but I hear it's gone now...03:51
golinuxIt could be resurrected03:53
bgstack15So yeah, my quick examination of connman is that it looks just like Network Manager. Which means it's familiar, a little ...too... familiar!03:53
bgstack15But it will do!03:53
bgstack15But then I have extremely simple use cases, so my opinion has a weight of 0.01 units.03:55
bgstack15I'd do /etc/network/interfaces but my users would object...03:55
bgstack15but if wicd gets resurrected, I'd probably just stick with that, because who wants to re-tool workflows, amirite?03:56
bgstack15Puddletag is another python2(+qt4) project getting resurrected currently.
fsmithredbgstack15, I had to remove and reload the module to get it to work03:59
fsmithredand yeah, wicd is in experimental, so it might migrate down in time for chimaera04:00
fsmithredconnman really doesn't look much like network-manager04:00
fsmithredconnman is a simpler interface04:01
nemofsmithred: hmmm04:15
nemofsmithred: I decided to look into that forum thread04:15
nemosince it's a friday night and the kids are in bed04:15
nemofsmithred: I have to say, rolfie's response falls far short of a clear guide for someone like me04:16
nemoupdating to 5.5 kernel is easy04:16
nemoit's just what else I have to do that's less than clear04:16
nemooooh wait. some commands in
nemook. I'm going to try to uninstall the amd stuff and try that thread.04:17
Digitanyone using min browser?  i tried install it manually, but hit errors i'm not competent enough to resolve.  wondering, maybe it's in a nother repo?  maybe experimental?  maybe packagers just havent heard of it yet?04:20
Digits/a nother/another/04:21
nemofsmithred: so, I'm on 5.5.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 from backports and I copied over the firmware Rolfie recommended...04:40
nemofsmithred: aaaaaand no graphics acceleration04:41
fsmithredI don't know what to say. I didn't read what you wrote or what rolfie wrote.04:42
nemofsmithred: I was reading response to thing you proxied04:42
nemohe'd linked to some threads04:42
nemoafter clicking on it, it seemed to involve 5.5 kernel from backports, cloning a repo for linux firmware and copying over the amd ones, adding a "4" to grub commandline (dunno what that does) and updating everything04:43
nemodmesg reports drm stuff04:43
fsmithred4 boots to runlevel 404:43
fsmithredwhich is the same as 2 unless you do something to change it04:43
nemofsmithred: well that's the confusing part for me since it seemed debian made no distinction between runlevels04:43
fsmithredwas I on that thread?04:44
nemoum... the one rolfie linked to? probably not. was just mentioning results since you'd reposted that thing in my name04:44
nemoanyway trying to see if anything obvious I missed jumps out. otherwise back to amdgpu-pro I guess04:45
nemo[   132.677] (II) UnloadModule: "amdgpu"04:45
nemohuh... what is Xorg doing...04:45
nemooh. oups. still on 1.19? thought I updated that 😃04:45
nemolemme try that04:45
nemothat could certainly do it04:45
gnarfaceyou might need to specify amdgpu in your xorg.conf to keep auto detect from forcing a generic driver on you04:46
gnarfaceit seems to gravitate heavily to the modesetting driver even when it isn't the best one04:47
gnarfacebut then once modesetting takes over nothing else can unseat it04:47
nemook. lemme check the conf04:48
nemo(1.20 didn't help btw)04:48
gnarfacein the conf you may have to specify the PCI ID for the card04:49
gnarfacethough that's rare i've seen it before04:49
nemognarface: stuff like that is kinda fun. us attributing mysterious impulses to software. it's FOSS, but there's a limit to how much RTFS we can do 😃04:49
fsmithredsleep time here. good luck.04:49
nemognarface: /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-amdgpu.conf seems to specify an amdgpu04:50
nemognarface: not too familiar with how debian organises config04:50
gnarfacenemo: well if that's present then i would think it should be enough04:51
nemo/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d# cat 10-amdgpu.conf | paste -sd ''04:51
nemoSection "OutputClass"Identifier "AMDgpu"MatchDriver "amdgpu"Driver "amdgpu"EndSection04:51
gnarfacenemo: unfortunately i don't have any recent amd video cards here to check it with, my comparative experience is mostly with nouveau on nvidia hardware04:51
nemognarface: well... my fallback is simply 1.19 Xorg, ascii xorg-server pin04:51
nemoand the amdgpu-pro package04:51
nemognarface: I was just trying to give the more foss-y variant an honest effort04:52
devuanhello all04:52
nemognarface: but the other one was definitely working fine yesterday with Witcher 2 on high everything graphics04:52
gnarfacenemo: i was under the impression that either way you need amdgpu-pro unless you want only 2d graphics and no compositing or video accel04:52
devuanI am trying to setup alsa04:52
nemoOH REALLY04:52
nemognarface: grrrr darn debian forum folks04:52
nemognarface: so context here04:52
gnarfacenemo: again, it's hearsay to me already04:53
nemognarface: I post
gnarfacenemo: i just heard that from someone else04:53
nemognarface: fsmithred here reposts it to forum in case anyone else is ddging for keywords04:53
devuanwhat packages do I need to setup alsa sound04:53
nemognarface: aaaand rolfie says I totally don't need that stuff04:53
devuanon the console I tested with:04:53
nemognarface: but you know. I should have been suspicious - I've had a lot of trouble with games and the nouveau driver. witcher for example did not work with it at all04:53
devuanspeaker-test -c2 -twav04:54
nemognarface: bah. time to restore everything again04:54
devuanand I hear, front left...front right04:54
devuanbut on desktop, no sound :(04:54
nemodevuan: are you using pulseaudio?04:54
gnarfacedevuan: alsamixer is what you want04:54
gnarfacedevuan: also, pavucontrol if you have pulseaudio (which is likely)04:54
nemo(that's an honest question since people have it installed by default and alsa can use it)04:55
nemognarface: indeedy. had to play with profiles in pavucontrol to get pulseaudio to play on my speakers and TV hdmi. basically try them one by one until one worked ☺04:55
nemognarface: also there's the devuan config issue that was still unfixed in the beowulf rc2 I installed04:55
devuanmy card is "sun4i-hdmi"04:55
devuanwhen I run alsamixer04:56
devuanIt selects that card but sayd that..04:56
nemodo you have pulseaudio installed04:56
devuan"This sound device does not have any controls"04:56
nemognarface: you know though, even if I'd managed to get the FOSS one to kinda work, I *was* looking forward to trying out opencl and I think I really would've needed amdgpu-pro to play with that04:57
nemognarface: ah.. here's the answer.04:58
nemo[   601.906] (--) AMDGPU(0): Chipset: "Unknown AMD Radeon GPU" (ChipID = 0x731f)04:58
nemomaybe I can get a newer xorg driver04:58
devuanAdvanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version k5.7.0.04:59
nemodevuan: do you have pulseaudio installed?05:00
devuannemo, I believe not05:00
nemoplease check05:00
nemoxserver-xorg-video-amdgpu  is dated 201902 - so definitely would not know about this chip...05:01
devuanI only have this:05:01
nemoaaaand nothing newer in backports05:01
devuanii  libpulse0:armhf                      12.2-4+deb10u1                      armhf        PulseAudio client libraries05:01
devuanI am in OpenBox05:02
devuanI don't even know what is the default way to control sound in OpenBox05:02
devuanits a experiment that I am running :)05:02
nemodevuan: aight. I'm regrettably out of practice with alsa personally. sorry. if gnarface has no suggestions, maybe try their channel.05:02
nemodevuan: I *will* say be realllly careful on arm playing around with linux sound settings in alsamixer as I learned once05:03
nemoI accidentally set my chromebook on fire05:03
nemosorry. I should say my SO's chromebook.05:03
nemodevuan: I just wanted to make sure you didn't have 2 sound systems fighting for lock on the card05:04
devuancards I only have one, thanks god..05:04
devuanbut the controls are not set..05:04
devuanI am on Olinuxino Lime205:05
devuanwith the experimental Audio kernel driver05:05
devuanbut I listen the woman, with:05:06
devuan speaker-test -c2 -twav05:06
devuanloud and clear05:06
devuanwell 16 bits :D05:06
devuanits not yet 24 bits but..05:07
devuandoes any one knows what is the alsa irc chanel?05:07
devuanI have a very strange pcm device..05:09
devuan00-00: SUN4I-HDMI PCM 1c16000.hdmi-0 : SUN4I-HDMI PCM 1c16000.hdmi-0 : playbac|05:09
man_in_shackgotta agree with that last line05:12
nemognarface , fsmithred -  I updated 😃05:12
nemo(yes, I know he's sleeping)05:12
devuanIt should mean the controls are messedup in some way05:12
man_in_shackdevuan: can you unplug it, dust the port, and plug it back in?05:13
man_in_shackcos that looks like the string isn't properly terminated, which indicates a signal error05:14
devuanyeah. I unpluged it, and plugged it back05:16
devuannow I am listem noise05:16
devuanwithout touching anything else :D05:16
nemomoar cleaning05:16
man_in_shackdevuan: so the name is more "normal" now?05:18
devuanI played again with 'speaker-test -c2 -twav'05:19
devuanand the noise dissapeared and the woman spoken :D05:19
devuana normal behaviour05:19
man_in_shackgood news05:19
man_in_shacknext time, don't break it05:19
devuanbut the chanels are at levels 0:005:19
devuanwith would mean 'mute' or so05:19
man_in_shackin theory :P05:20
devuan00-00: SUN4I-HDMI PCM 1c16000.hdmi-0 : SUN4I-HDMI PCM 1c16000.hdmi-0 : playback 105:20
man_in_shacklooks better, yes05:21
devuanI don't know how to set the sound in OpenBox WM05:22
devuanI believe that sound is muted..05:27
man_in_shackhave you tried muting it?05:28
devuanhow can I do that?06:03
devuanin the console?06:03
frabbitxdm doesnt show up after boot07:14
frabbitnothing special in the logs07:14
frabbitwhen i sotp it and start it again it does show up07:15
frabbitbut thats no solve on taht machine07:15
frabbit*not a solution07:15
gnarfacefrabbit: nothing in the Xorg log either?07:28
gnarfacefrabbit: you don't have 2 displays connected, do you?07:28
frabbitgnarface: i have08:02
frabbitbut the vga gives no signal on tty7 and the laptop screen stays black with frozen undertline cursor in the upper left corner08:03
frabbit*underline = _08:03
gnarfacefrabbit: hmmm, not sure about that.  i did once have a issue with xdm showing up on the display i didn't expect when it was off08:03
gnarfacefrabbit: but in that instance, i wouldn't expect a cursor on the other screen08:04
gnarfacejust a plain black screen08:04
frabbitwill check the xorg log again but i couldnt find anyzhing in first place. i cleared them and rebooted08:04
frabbitxorg log is empty and in xdm log nothing special (version etc.)08:12
frabbitwhen i restart xdm the same will be posted to xdm.log08:13
aitorgood morning08:13
frabbiti know that on boot it shows that xdm is started08:13
frabbitaitor: good morning =)08:14
Guest35977frabbit: i replaced xdm in gnuinos by wdm08:14
* frabbit checks out wdm08:14
Guest35977anybody knows how to install internet explorer under beowulf? I tried it yesterday, but it was a fiasco08:14
frabbitGuest35977: wdmis inactive sinde 2005... o_008:15
frabbit*wdm is08:15
Guest35977the most used web browser in the world08:15
frabbitinterent explorer... ok i do better if i dont follow your software suggesstions xD08:16
Guest35977the most used... for downloading other web browsers08:16
gnarfaceGuest35977: i'd guess you would probably need wine-staging from and maybe some add-on winetricks (check the winehq appdb for hints) but if you have an actual copy of windows it might just be easier to install in a qemu guest08:16
frabbityea and google is the most used search engine, facebook the most used "social" medie platform etc. and they all suck! =P08:16
Guest35977frabbit: wasn't wdm supposed to be a replacement for xdm? At least, the code seems to be more updated08:18
frabbitwith apt u get taht wdm is oldstable now08:19
frabbitand xdm too xD08:19
frabbitany small dm that is still maintained? (except slim)08:20
Guest35977synaptic says: an xdm replament with a WindowMaker look (this is its short description)08:20
frabbitdont use synaptic it can cause problems...08:21
frabbitjust use apt08:21
gnarfacefrabbit: make sure you don't have consolekit and elogind both installed together08:21
frabbitgnarface: for getting xdm to wotk otb?08:21
gnarfacefrabbit: just check to be sure, or nothing will work right you know08:22
gnarfacefrabbit: could be a driver issue for all i know but you don't have anything in the logs... so it suggests a configuration issue of some sort08:22
gnarfacefrabbit: something could have gone wrong in the updates08:22
Guest35977i wonder why apt-cache overlooks long descriptions... is it an amprolla issue?08:22
frabbitok wait a sec... (need always to check such things on that beginer system, cause all the programs brings tons of dependencies with them...)08:23
gnarfacefrabbit: it's really easy to just run dpkg -l|grep consolekit08:23
frabbitgnarface: no package that contains the phrase consolekit installed there08:24
gnarfacefrabbit: dpkg -l |grep login08:25
frabbitgnarface: i know how to look for packages...08:25
frabbityeah i know08:25
gnarfacefrabbit: the issue is that i'm trying to help you debug it, and you'd rather argue with me about whether you should have to or not08:25
gnarfacefrabbit: it would take less typing to just answer my questions instead08:25
frabbitno consolekit but elogind as i said08:25
gnarfaceok, pretty sure from memory that xdm needs the other one08:26
gnarfacebut i'll have to boot a machine to check08:26
frabbitbut now elogind lets u run startx without set that bit thing08:26
Guest35977neither xdm nor wdm allows to root running X from the command line (i'm not talking about gksu or pkexec, but from the command line), and root needs to copy the .Xauthority from the current X's ownership08:27
gnarfacefrabbit: wait startx.... i thought you were trying to get xdm working?08:27
gnarfacefrabbit: using xdm would preclude using startx...08:27
frabbitgnarface: yes08:27
frabbiti want xdm to start after boot and thats not happening here08:27
frabbitbut i can run startx as non root user without setting that bit thing before08:28
frabbitsetuid or what it is called..08:28
gnarfacefrabbit: confirmed, xdm it is using consolekit here08:28
frabbitgnarface: ok thxä08:28
frabbitso good bye xdm xp08:28
gnarfacefrabbit: also, add yourself to the "video" group08:28
frabbitgnarface: ...08:28
Guest35977i'm building an imgage without polkit | dbus | consolekit | elogind08:28
Guest35977and replacing sysvinit by runit08:29
gnarfacefrabbit: you can have consolekit without policykit, just fyi (just uninstall policykit afterwards)08:29
frabbitxdm doesnt work without consolekit, slim cant work with wicd-gtk....08:29
Guest35977it works08:29
frabbitgnarface: fyi?08:30
Guest35977xdm without consolekit, i mean08:30
frabbitGuest35977: ok..08:30
frabbitdo i have to install ie first?08:30
gnarfacefrabbit: "for your information"08:30
Guest35977and slim has nothing to do with wicd08:30
frabbitxD ;)08:30
Guest35977but slim depends on dbus08:30
frabbitGuest35977: slim breaks when wicd-gtk is installed here08:30
Guest35977both depend on dbus08:30
frabbitoften not always ive tested this dozen times...08:31
Guest35977wicd has a lot of bugs08:31
frabbitGuest35977: maybe i dont use these guishes things for years08:32
frabbitlast time i had wicd-gtk installed on my own system was 5 or 6 years ago or something...08:32
frabbitgnarface: install cnsolekit, uninstall policykit08:33
frabbitwasnt that policykit needed for that mount thing in gui fm?08:33
Guest35977i'm going to take a coffee, see you later08:33
Guest35977hope to find a wizard for ie :)08:34
gnarfacefrabbit: heh, oh yea, probably, nevermind08:34
frabbitgnarface: lol xD08:34
gnarfacefrabbit: at a certain point, you can't get that type of stuff without making sacrifices08:34
gnarfacefrabbit: i prefer the extra typing method, myself.  there's less moving parts08:34
gnarfacefrabbit: you could just login at a text prompt and type startx every time08:35
frabbitgnarface: and thats only one reason why i try to avoid gui stuff...08:35
frabbitgnarface: i know08:35
frabbiti do this for years08:35
frabbitbut thats a beginner system08:35
gnarfacethey don't need it either08:36
gnarfacejust add the call to startx in their bash login scripts08:36
frabbitand.. well that old lady... run some commands as root yesterday accidentaly.. xD08:36
gnarfacedon't even give them the root password...08:36
frabbitnah thats no problem she can update the system08:36
gnarfacei'm not seeing a good argument against consolekit in your use case here08:37
frabbitshe can open a terminal in xfce run su type root passphrase and then run a script i wrote for her to update the system08:37
gnarfacealso, that's suicidal if she can't be trusted to remember "startx"08:37
frabbitgnarface: hm? u said i need to deinstall policykit then...08:37
frabbitgnarface: she did this first time yesterday08:38
gnarfacejust forget about that, you don't need to deinstall anything08:38
frabbitstartx thing08:38
frabbitok u confusing me08:38
gnarfacethe only thing you need to deinstall is elogind08:38
gnarfacebecause it's probably what is breaking xdm for you right now08:38
frabbitfirst i should make clear if both are installed, then i should install consolekit and remove policykit now i should install consolekit besides policykit...08:39
frabbitand that elogind is only needed for run startx as non root?08:39
gnarfaceuh... no, startx doesn't require either08:39
gnarfaceconsolekit and elogind compete08:40
gnarfaceyou need to make sure only one or the other is installed, and it needs to be the right one for the gui.  xdm needs consolekit.  maybe slim needs elogind, i'm not sure.08:40
frabbitok ill check08:41
gnarfacestartx doesn't require any08:41
gnarfacesome drivers might require the suid root wrapper08:41
frabbit*errm* apt-get autoremove --purge elogind wants to temove alot of libs and blinken, kio and kollision....08:43
gnarfacethat's expected.  your only choice is to let it08:44
frabbitblinken and kollision are games08:44
frabbitlinux is broken xD08:44
* frabbit creates #linux-rant08:44
gnarfaceanything that is still working in the distro will allow you to reinstall it again after you install consolekit08:45
gnarfaceif a game actually got left behind in the release it's probably because the maintainer abandoned it08:46
gnarfaceor because you got it from another 3rd party repo to begin with08:46
frabbitganerr.. u mean i can reinstall the games after consolekit is installed?08:46
frabbitno, no 3rd party stuff here except libdvdcss208:46
gnarfaceif they were from the distro and they weren't obsoleted with this release, they should work still08:46
gnarfacei would assume08:46
gnarfacebut i don't actually know anything about those games specifically08:47
frabbitok =(08:47
gnarfaceif you just try to install consolekit instead of remove elogind, what does it say?08:47
gnarfacedoes it say it will install consolekit and uninstall elogind, or does it just blindly install consolekit?08:47
frabbitkollision is one of her favorite games (good for older people to train concentration and reaction) i wont remove that one08:47
frabbitor.. wait08:48
gnarfacedoes it keep the games ?08:48
frabbitit will install consolekit when i purge elogind08:48
frabbitas i said08:49
frabbitbut i didnt execute that install08:49
gnarfacei see kollision in beowulf08:50
gnarfaceyou said this is beowulf, right?08:50
gnarfacekollision, sorry i just got it08:52
gnarfacethese are kde games08:52
gnarfacekde requires elogind08:52
frabbitah i see08:52
gnarfaceyou're stuck with elogind and you're stuck with kde08:52
frabbitshitty de here again xD08:52
frabbitgnarface: not ur fault08:52
frabbitdevs of the games fault08:52
gnarfacethat's the case for pretty much most stuff following this kname convention08:52
gnarfacenot just the games08:53
gnarfacejust fyi ;)08:53
malade_mentalGlad to hear about the newsletter I received today! Happy third release to all the Devuan contributors!11:38
malade_mentalgonna install this quick quick quick!11:41
crhyloveHey all!  How do I get Compiz going in Devuan?12:21
crhyloveEverything else seems to be working, although this is a very old version of OBS.  LOL12:21
crhyloveBut it works pretty well, so....12:21
crhyloveMan is Devuan fast compared to Mint on the same machine....12:24
crhyloveHD crashed, so....  Here I am!12:24
gnu_srsHi, whit polkit etc packages do I need to get the shutdown/reboot back with beowulf/mate. It worked with ASCII :(12:29
frabbitgnu_srs: it works with elogind i think12:35
frabbitbut im not sure i forgot ^_^12:35
gnu_srsI prefer to use the consolekit version.12:36
fsmithredgnu_srs, usually policykit-1-gnome is the missing piece12:39
crhylovehmmmmmm  Got compiz MOSTLY working, but I can't switch workspaces.  Or enable 3d cube.  LOL12:54
crhyloveOK, Got Desktop Wall to work and am able to switch workspaces....13:01
crhyloveFigured it out!  I needed apt install compiz-plugins13:03
gnu_srsfsmithred: Thanks but no improvement. I don't have any menu entries for shutdown/reboot??13:13
crhyloveGot almost everything working, except transparent desktop on rotate and transparent cube caps.13:16
crhyloveGoing for a reboot.... Maybe that will fix it?13:22
fsmithredgnu_srs, I think maybe there is no fix for that. In Release Notes it says that XFCE and Cinnamon are the only desktops that work with consolekit.13:29
crhyloveWell, got it all working mostly!  Any idea how to get a newer version of OBS?13:38
crhyloveCompile from source, or.... ?13:39
fsmithredwhat is OBS?13:47
gnarfacescreen recorder13:48
gnarfaceit doesn't do anything you can't do with ffmpeg, but it's popular because it is easy to set up13:48
climbingturtleversion 25 of obs-studio is possible to get from chimaera-repos13:49
ShorTiebetter to compile it then try to pull it from chimera, imho14:02
gnarfacedid anyone check for it in beowulf-backports?14:06
gnarfacethe work may have already been done14:06
gnu_srsfsmithred: I have a Debian box running mate with policykit where the System menu has a Shut Down entry!14:08
fsmithredgnu_srs, I'm guessing your debian box does not use consolekit14:10
gnu_srspolicykit versions: 0.105-26, mate-* versions 1.20.2-1 (same as devuan)14:10
fsmithrednot a devuan version of policykit-1?14:11
fsmithredrunning beowulf here14:12
fsmithredgnu_srs, while I have your attention, I have a question about eudev.14:13
gnu_srsYou are probably right: On that box I have elogind 241.3-1+debian1, and no polkit backends at all??14:13
fsmithredbetween ascii and jessie, the start command changed from 'udevd -d' to start-something14:13
climbingturtlegnarface: I think I checked beowulf-backports :)14:13
fsmithredcan you give me any information about that change?14:14
fsmithredmy problem is related to booting live-isos - when booting from optical media, I have to stop and start eudev an extra time to get it to recognize all the hardware and load right modules14:14
gnu_srsdo you mean:  between ascii and jessie->ascii and beowulf?14:16
fsmithredversion in ascii vs. version in beowulf14:16
gnu_srsI run beowulf on a laptop: ps aux|grep udevd; /sbin/udevd udevd; eudev 3.2.7-614:19
fsmithredif start-stop-daemon --start $NAME --user root --quiet \14:19
fsmithred^^^ that's in beowulf14:20
fsmithredin ascii: if udevd --daemon; then14:20
gnu_srsRemember: I was not involved in eudev until after 3.2.7-614:20
fsmithredok, I was missing that detail14:20
fsmithredso I need to talk to Andreas?14:21
gnu_srssee the changelog14:21
gnu_srsMainly centurion and katolaZ14:22
fsmithredyeah, it looks like you were the first to get 3.2.9. I probably need to look at upstream changelogs14:24
fsmithreddo you know anything at all about start-stop-daemon?14:25
fsmithredoh, a man page!14:25
ShorTieor the commits on the eudev github ??14:28
gnu_srsThere is a bug in the eudev script in two places:   mkdir -p $OMITDIR/$NAME;  ln -sf $PIDFILE $OMITDIR/$NAME14:28
gnu_srsShould be: mkdir -p $OMITDIR/;  ln -sf $PIDFILE $OMITDIR/$NAME14:28
gnu_srsWe should probably fix this bug and create a 3.2.7-7 version before enabling 3.2.9-7~beowulf1 (that does not have that bug)14:30
fsmithredoh, that's in the older version?14:31
gnu_srsYes, that's why elogind runs as /sbin/udevd udevd14:31
fsmithredany idea what that bug would do?14:31
gnu_srsRuns udevd twice??14:31
fsmithredI'm running eudev a second time to fix a problem14:32
fsmithredin beowulf14:32
gnu_srsMaybe you can fix that bug in your live ISo to check?14:32
fsmithredmight be interesting to see if fixing the bug will cause the problem in ascii isos14:32
gnu_srsfsmithred: Looking ate the bug above reveals that the $PIDFILE variable gets lost.14:35
fsmithredoh, that bug is in the beowulf version.14:35
fsmithredyeah, there's a leftover pidfile14:36
fsmithredok, I need to fix that in the beowulf version, right?14:36
gnu_srsAnd PIDFILE="/run/"14:36
fsmithredlooking at it now14:36
teknopaulre: the lack of ext4, in expert mode, trying again on different hardware and its repeatable, this server has no wifi issue.  Just Ext2, FAT16, FAT32 or swap are available15:26
karborsanhello folks15:36
karborsancould somone help me?? I would like to wildcard my localhost for development purposes. on MX Linux I used dnsmasq & it was working fine, however it is not working on Devuan 3.0 using the same configurations15:38
teknopaulwhat do you mean by  "wildcard my localhost"15:40
karborsanI mean to be able to forward abc.localhost:8075 to
karborsanthe used the following comands15:43
karborsansudo apt-get install dnsmasqecho "address=/localhost/" > /etc/dnsmasq.d/localhost.confecho "prepend domain-name-servers;" >>  /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf/etc/init.d/dnsmasq restart15:43
karborsansudo apt-get install dnsmasq15:43
karborsanecho "address=/localhost/" > /etc/dnsmasq.d/localhost.conf15:43
karborsanecho "prepend domain-name-servers;" >>  /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf15:43
teknopaulpotentially you need an extra period   echo 'address=/.localhost/'15:45
karborsanstill not working15:48
teknopaulwhats in  /etc/resolv.conf15:56
teknopauldevuan does not install resolvconf15:56
teknopaulnameserver [real server ip]15:56
teknopaulseemed to work for me15:56
karborsanso should I change something15:59
teknopaulTop trick: I added that to my network's dnsmasq server, and it seems to work across the network16:00
teknopaulin /etc/resolv.conf what do you have now16:01
teknopaulput nameserver  infromt16:01
crashoverridetry nameserver
crashoverrideI heard it's really fast.16:02
teknopaulI suspect you have setup dnsmasq correctly but not told Linux to use it.16:02
teknopaulSomething other than probably does not have your *.localhost trick setup16:03
karborsanwell, thank you guyz. it works fine now16:03
teknopaulnp,   you might want to make sure DNSmasq is a caching DNS too: Linux is always going to hit first16:04
teknopaulthanks for the trick, this will save a bunch of junk in my /etc/hosts16:05
karborsanthank you all16:06
teknopauldeb cdrom:   is left uncommented in /apt/etc/sources.list after fresh install   please insert the disc labeled  'Devuan GNU/Linux 3.0 (beowulf) amd64 - server 20200526'16:51
teknopaulits there commented and uncommented16:51
gnu_srsHi again. Seems like installing elogind (replacing consolekit) in Beowulf also removes slim and installs lightdm. slim+mate+elogind not possible?17:37
gnu_srsOn the other hand: installing libpam-elogind (end elogind) does _not_ remove slim??17:39
specingWill "fakeroot debian/rules binary" start rebuilding things if the source package changes?18:24
specingI forgot to exclude .git from the source package, and now it's huge and taking up a lot of space18:24
specingand the thing takes 3h to build18:25
gnu_srsseems like installing libpam-elogind works with slim. Some dependency makes installation of elogind removing slim and installing lightdm??18:48
fsmithredgnu_srs, I've seen some weird things like that around the whole login/policykit ecosystem.18:55
gnu_srsfsmithred: Any luck with eudev?19:05
fsmithredI changed it, made an iso, booted. No change. But then I noticed that I only changed it in the start case but not restart.19:05
fsmithredplaying with it again now19:06
fsmithredSat Jun  6 17:10:30 2020: [....] Setting up LVM Volume db file to read /run/udev/data/b8:0: No such file or directory19:20
fsmithredThere are a couple of places where /run/udev (or its absence) bites me in the ass.19:21
fsmithredThat log line is from /var/log/boot19:22
GLAT-agent1Hello. I am selling GNU/Linux licenses. Contact me if you want one ($99 for single computer, $49 for each computer if purchasing for 25 or more machines).20:33
kryptonHi, has someone here migrated to beowulf from ascii?20:46
humpelstilzchen[some time ago, yes20:47
kryptonI've lost the automatic module loading by udev....20:47
kryptonAfter booting, not all the necessary modules are loaded, but when I stop/start ude, they get loaded20:48
humpelstilzchen[are the links in rc?.d intact?20:49
kryptonYes, looks like it20:51
kryptonHmm, but there is no udev-start link in rc5.d20:51
kryptonThere is a start link in rcS.d, however.20:52
humpelstilzchen[seems to be normal20:53
humpelstilzchen[I also have only rcS.d/S02eudev -> ../init.d/eudev20:53
fsmithredkrypton, I have the same problem but ONLY when booting live-DVD20:55
fsmithredand not when booting toram20:55
kryptonWell, I'm booting from disk20:55
fsmithredfirst I've heard of it happening there20:55
kryptonFrom my previous ascii install...20:55
fsmithredrc5.d shouldn't really matter unless you're using runlevel 520:56
fsmithreddefault is 220:56
fsmithredmy workaround for the live isos was to add a line to /etc/rc.local20:57
fsmithred /etc/init.d/eudev stop && /etc/init.d/eudev start20:57
kryptonWell, in rc2.d there is no udev link, but humpelstilzchen[ does not need one there...20:57
fsmithreddon't have that here, either20:58
fsmithredyeah, it starts in rcS and that's all20:59
humpelstilzchen[makes sense to start in rcS20:59
fsmithredone bug was found today, you could try this:21:00
fsmithred<gnu_srs> There is a bug in the eudev script in two places:   mkdir -p $OMITDIR/$NAME;  ln -sf $PIDFILE $OMITDIR/$NAME21:00
fsmithred<gnu_srs> Should be: mkdir -p $OMITDIR/;  ln -sf $PIDFILE $OMITDIR/$NAME21:00
fsmithredin /etc/init.d/eudev21:00
fsmithredit's in the start and restart cases21:00
kryptonOK, will try that out, I've added a link in rc2 and tried a reboot21:01
fsmithredoh, ok. Let me know if that works.21:01
kryptonnope, didn't21:02
kryptonI'll apply the fix now21:02
kryptonI've gonna add /sbin to root's path real soon now...21:04
fsmithredkrypton, echo 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' >> /etc/default/su21:05
fsmithredthat will make it act like it used to21:05
kryptonI don't use su, plain old root login21:06
fsmithredthen you should have the sbins in your path21:06
_abc_Hello. Is there an update command for going from ascii straight to beowulf in one command?21:07
kryptonRight you are, fsmithred, my fault21:07
_abc_Keeping $HOME mostly untouched I assume.21:07
fsmithred_abc_, yeah, gimme a sec21:07
_abc_Hi fsmithred .21:08
fsmithredit's actually more than one command21:08
_abc_Up to 10 is ok :)21:08
kryptonbut still only a small number of modules loaded, even after the init script change... Perhaps something in the initramfs is missing? The list of the files in there is a lot shorter than the in the ascii initramfses.21:09
fsmithredI'm looking at that now21:10
fsmithredabout to compare to ascii21:10
fsmithredbeowulf has all the same udev rules files as ascii plus one more.21:12
kryptonHmm.. udevd is now in /usr/sbin in the initram. It was in /sbin before..21:12
fsmithredanother thing that changes is in ascii the start command was 'udevd --daemon'21:13
fsmithredand in beowulf it uses start-stop-daemon21:13
fsmithredwe tried changing it and it did fix the problem, but I don't know if it's a good idea to do that. i.e. comment out 20 lines or so and replace with one line.21:14
gl4t-ag3ntI am selling GNU/Linux licenses. $99 for each computer if less than 25 computers, else $49.21:15
fsmithredkrypton, here's a discussion with some things we tried:
kryptonI think here's something fishy in my filesystem: ls -al /sbin/udev* /usr/sbin/ude* : ls: cannot access '/usr/sbin/ude*': No such file or directory lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     12 Feb  9  2019  /sbin/udevadm -> /bin/udevadm -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 405896 Feb  9  2019  /sbin/udevd21:18
kryptonShouldn't udev be in /usr/sbin in the final install, too?21:19
fsmithrednot here21:19
fsmithredI have /sbin/udevd21:20
fsmithredand /sbin/udevadm is a symlink to /bin/udevadm21:20
kryptonOK, same as in my install, same timestamps?21:20
fsmithredFeb 9 201921:21
kryptonOK, and binary works, so that should be OK. Must be something with the scripts or the initramfs, I suppose.21:22
fsmithredwhat is different about your installation?21:22
fsmithredseems like a timing problem21:22
fsmithredlike it stops detecting hardware too soon21:22
kryptonWell, it's an upgrade from ascii.21:22
fsmithredor it gets stupid and forgets what it needs to look for21:23
fsmithredI think I've only booted upgrades in a VM21:23
fsmithrednot on hardware21:23
kryptonAnd the box is a quick 24 core Xenon21:23
kryptonSo, timing will be different :-)21:23
krypton(2 CPUs, HP Z600)21:24
_abc_nice box21:24
_abc_Is the kernel built with 24 cpu support? ...21:25
kryptonYeah, was a cheap (~300 Euros) buy on ebay, used of course21:25
fsmithredpretty sure it is21:25
kryptonAll CPUs are there21:25
kryptonWell, perhaps the wait during udev start does not work?21:27
kryptonHm, uses udevadm settle...21:28
ShorTiethat don't work all the time, imho21:29
ShorTiean extra sleep is needed sometimes21:30
kryptonDo you have a suggestion for the time of the sleep, ShorTie?21:31
ShorTiei use 421:31
kryptonOK, I'll use 10 to be sure for the next reboot :-)21:32
ShorTiei'd stick it at the end of start21:33
kryptonI tried it in the if-section of the settle - that did not work21:35
kryptonTrying your suggestion now21:36
ShorTiejust above ;;21:36
ShorTieso it's the last thing21:36
kryptonYeah, maybe it runs into the timeout21:37
kryptonStill no go :-(21:37
kryptonlsmod | wc 35     125    133921:38
krypton/etc/init.d/eudev stop && /etc/init.d/eudev start && lsmod | wc: 78     274    329321:39
kryptonBut I could see from the bootup sequence that the script executed the sleep.21:40
fsmithredwe tried adding sleep in a couple places21:42
kryptonHmmm... There's a warning in dmesg now: random: udevd: uninitialized urandom read (16 bytes read)21:42
kryptonJust after udevd[224]: starting version 3.2.721:43
kryptonurandom gets inititalised way later than udev starts (udev: 02, urandom: 11)21:48
kryptonI'll try pushing it before udev21:48
kryptonEh, that looks strange:21:51
kryptonRun /init as init process21:51
kryptonudevd[224]: starting version 3.2.721:51
kryptonrandom: udevd: uninitialized urandom read (16 bytes read)21:51
kryptonrandom: udevd: uninitialized urandom read (16 bytes read)21:51
kryptonudevd[225]: starting eudev-3.2.721:51
kryptonin that order in the dmesg21:52
fsmithredthat's how mine starts21:52
fsmithredkrypton, did you initially install ascii with a desktop from the installer iso?21:56
fsmithredor did you start minimal and build up?21:57
kryptonfsmithred: from a minimal21:57
fsmithredI guess I should upgrade my laptop. So far, to test each change I have to make a new live-iso and then burn it to dvd.21:58
kryptonAs long as you use rewritable DVDs ;-)21:59
fsmithreddon't have any rw21:59
kryptonWait, shouldn't be /dev mounted before udev starts?22:00
fsmithredor does udev create /dev? There's no /dev in the initramfs22:00
fsmithredearly in the init script there are some tests for what udev needs22:04
fsmithredand there's a comment about the time between mounting new /dev and running udevadm trigger.22:05
fsmithredwhich I don't fully understand22:05
fsmithredkrypton, did you try this fix?
kryptonno, but I'll try22:09
kryptonHey, fsmithred, that did the trick!22:14
fsmithredyeah, it would be nice to know if cutting out all that other code will cause trouble22:14
kryptonlsmod | wc:      78     274    329322:14
fsmithredlsmod |grep snd22:15
kryptonlsmod | grep snd22:15
kryptonsnd_hda_codec_realtek   122880  122:15
kryptonsnd_hda_codec_generic    86016  1 snd_hda_codec_realtek22:15
kryptonsnd_hda_codec_hdmi     57344  122:15
fsmithredI get around 140 when everything loads correctly, around 80-90 when it screwed up22:15
kryptonsnd_hda_intel          49152  022:15
kryptonsnd_hda_codec         151552  4 snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec_realtek22:15
kryptonsnd_hda_core           94208  5 snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_codec_realtek22:15
kryptonsnd_hwdep              16384  1 snd_hda_codec22:15
kryptonsnd_pcm               114688  4 snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_core22:15
kryptonsnd_timer              36864  1 snd_pcm22:15
kryptonsnd                    94208  8 snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hwdep,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_timer,snd_pcm22:16
kryptonsoundcore              16384  1 snd22:16
fsmithredyou're still here?  I thought for sure you would get bounced.22:16
kryptonNo I'm here22:16
fsmithredsnd were among the missing in my tests. Also wireless.22:17
kryptonI was missing my radeon DRM22:17
kryptonBut it's all there now, even coretemp, kvm, i7core_edac pcc_cpufreq, etc.22:18
kryptonWas all missing before22:18
fsmithredI've been fighting with this for a couple weeks22:18
fsmithredstill don't really know what the problem is22:18
kryptonBooting is different now as well, as the fbdev is now used as expected.22:19
kryptonWell, I still have the urandom warnings in my dmesg as well.22:22
kryptonBut later on udev gets started twice again:22:23
kryptonrandom: crng init done22:23
krypton[    7.373001] random: 3 urandom warning(s) missed due to ratelimiting22:23
krypton[    7.861093] udevd[617]: starting version 3.2.722:23
krypton[    8.052203] udevd[617]: specified group 'kvm' unknown22:23
krypton[    8.278318] udevd[618]: starting eudev-3.2.722:23
kryptonAnd after that all modules are inserted22:24
fsmithredI have urandom warnings in ascii, too22:24
kryptonYes, me too22:25
kryptonSo, that's probably a red herring22:25
kryptonstart-stop-daemon has been upgraded as well22:28
krypton-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 44200 Jun  3  2019 /sbin/start-stop-daemon22:29
kryptonon ascii it's smaller22:29
kryptonI think that start-stop-daemon is just wrong in that eudev script. udev is started before already and will not be started again by start-stop-daemon --start.22:35
kryptonI don't understand why udev is already started, though ;-)22:36
fsmithredhow do you know it's started?22:36
kryptonBecause I have that line in dmesg:22:37
krypton[    2.195982] udevd[224]: starting version 3.2.722:37
kryptonAnd later:22:37
krypton[    7.861093] udevd[617]: starting version 3.2.722:37
krypton[    8.278318] udevd[618]: starting eudev-3.2.722:37
kryptonSo it gets started 3 times.22:38
fsmithredsame here22:38
fsmithredtwice at around 3 seconds and once at 1722:38
kryptonOnly after the last of the starts all modules load up22:38
fsmithredsame here except in the live-dvd not all the modules load22:41
kryptonI just go back to the start-stop script to see if the timing is different22:42
fsmithred[   38.892669] udevd[765]: starting eudev-3.2.722:42
fsmithred[   44.132388] udevd[765]: cleanup idle workers22:42
fsmithred[   44.132452] udevd[765]: Validate module index22:42
fsmithred[   44.132554] udevd[1395]: Unload module index22:42
fsmithred[   44.132823] udevd[765]: worker [1395] exited22:43
fsmithred[   44.153090] udevd[765]: seq 2521 queued, 'add' 'module'22:43
fsmithred[   44.153317] udevd[765]: seq 2521 forked new worker [1569]22:43
fsmithred[   44.153478] udevd[1569]: seq 2521 running22:43
kryptonThe first line here is:22:43
krypton[    2.192779] udevd[224]: starting version 3.2.722:43
fsmithred[   44.153529] udevd[1569]: no db file to read /run/udev/data/+module:sunrpc: No such file or directory22:43
kryptonThen the warnings about urandom and then:22:43
fsmithredI'm running in debug mode22:44
krypton[    7.932107] udevd[619]: starting version 3.2.722:44
krypton[    8.092937] udevd[619]: specified group 'kvm' unknown22:44
fsmithredset it in /etc/udev/udev.conf22:44
krypton[    8.308626] udevd[619]: starting eudev-3.2.722:44
kryptonLooks the same to me as in the non-working case.22:44
kryptonOK, rebooting with debug now, non-working case22:46
fsmithredneed coffee - back in 10-15 min22:47
kryptonI'll just check the debug output, then I'll go to bed...22:48
Guest902there is a mistake in the packaging of runit in debian, i guess...22:49
Guest902the location of the services is arbitrary: it can be /service, /etc/service, /etc/sv...22:51
Guest902Artix (base on arch), for example, uses /etc/runit/sv22:52
Guest902The folder "/etc/runit/runsvdir" should contain symlinks to those services you want to use22:53
kryptonDuring the last startup of udevd, the lines after startup are the same, including:22:54
krypton[    7.857477] udevd[616]: Failed to symlink /proc/kcore to /dev/core: File exists22:54
Guest902you can define a lot of services in, say /etc/sv/, and use only a few of them creating only a few of symlinks at /etc/runit/runsvdir22:54
kryptonuntil: [    7.884542] udevd[616]: header size             80 bytes22:54
krypton[    8.274786] udevd[617]: starting eudev-3.2.722:55
kryptonAfter that, udev goes different ways. In the OK case the next line from udev is:22:55
krypton[   12.858428] udevd[819]: starting '/etc/console-setup/'22:55
kryptonAnd output is switched to the frame buffer22:56
kryptonWhere in the fail case, the next line is:22:57
krypton[   14.078079] udevd[616]: cleanup idle workers22:57
Guest902Sorry krypton: i'll finish with the issue concerning to runit...22:59
Guest902But first i rectify: the symolinks are located in /etc/runit/runsvdir/default23:00
Guest902in the packaging of debian, the *whole* /etc/runit/runsvdir/default point to /etc/service, as you can see in debian/runit-init.links, but the folder used for the services is /etc/sv23:01
kryptonGuest902: fsmithred and me were debugging the udevd failures in beowulf, but I'm tired now anyway23:01
Guest902krypton: i know, i read it before23:02
kryptonOK, bye23:03
Guest902i'll build my own packages of runit, and i'll share an image of gnuinos using it as init system tomorrow23:03
Guest902krypton: bye :)23:04
fsmithredGuest902, how much do you need to do for runit to work?23:07
Guest902hi fsmithred23:07
fsmithreddoes it just work out of the box if you install it and remove sysvinit?23:07
Guest902this is my goal23:08
Guest902aside of the required changes in the grub meny entry23:11
fsmithredwhat changes in grub entry?23:17
Guest902sorry: /sbin/runit-init has been renamed to /sbin/init23:18
Guest902and also changes in the list of the allowed init systems: runit is missing23:18
fsmithredwhere is that list?23:19
Guest902fsmithred: download the sources for grub and have a look at the following quilt patch: "mkconfig_other_inits.patch"23:20
fsmithredyou do know that beowulf point-release will have runit as a choice in the installer?23:21
Guest902line nº28:23:21
Guest902+SUPPORTED_INITS="sysvinit:/lib/sysvinit/init systemd:/lib/systemd/systemd upstart:/sbin/upstart"23:21
Guest902i didn't know23:21
Guest902then, you'll need to retouch the patch above23:22
fsmithredstuff for the point release is/will be in beowulf-proposed-updates23:24
Guest902i'm also enabling services for the virtual tty's, so that they can work with runit, leaving the tty7 (and subsequents) for the Xsession23:27
Guest902time to dinner, see you tomorrow23:28
devuanShorTie, til now I have this list of packages:
crhyloveHow do I get an updated version of OBS-studio in Devuan?23:34
crhyloveEverything is working great, but .1 is pretty old and seems a tad buggy.23:34
crhyloveAlso is there a way to add an android device on the local network as a secondary webcam?23:38
sixwheeledbeastThey have instructions on how to build the latest version for debian via there git on the website.23:58

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