libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-07-18

nemohttps://qelectrotech.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1539  just encountered this...01:19
nemoin beowulf01:19
nemosounds like a very bad thing01:19
nemohttps://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-7737501:19
nemohttps://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/how-a-months-old-amd-microcode-bug-destroyed-my-weekend/01:23
nemohow is it this is still an issue ☹01:23
nemoheh. broke systemd01:41
nemohm. maybe this system is missing the amd microcode01:43
nemolet's see01:43
nemoamd64-microcode01:44
nemohum01:44
nemo3.20181128.101:44
nemoI'm going to guess that is 2018-11-28...01:44
nemoso... really bad bug. let's see if there's a backports amd microcode package01:44
nemonope ☹01:45
nemobah01:45
nemomight just have to grab something from some random debian01:45
stiltr3.20191218.1 is in ceres01:47
nemostiltr: do you know if I can force install it?01:51
stiltrhttps://packages.debian.org/bullseye/amd64/amd64-microcode/download01:51
stiltrJust grab the deb from there and 'dpkg -i' it01:51
nemo'k. sometimes that's risky01:52
nemobut since a random person said it's fine ☺01:52
stiltrIt doesn't have any deps, so it shouldn't be an issue.01:52
stiltrlol. Random internet strangers are always trustworthy!01:52
nemowhat I also learned from this is that qt and systemd trust rdrand01:54
nemoserves 'em right01:54
nemoand not just as a supplemental source of randomness01:54
nemohttps://linuxreviews.org/AMD_Ryzen_3000_series_CPUs_can%27t_do_Random_on_boot_causing_Boot_Failure_on_newer_Linux_distributions01:59
nemoheh. it's not systemd's fault, it's AMD's.02:12
nemowell. yes, they are right02:12
nemobut... systemd also completely trusted rdrand with no mixin, and coded an infinite loop. despite prior issues with this instruction02:13
stiltrYeah that sounds vaguely familiar.02:56
rtn0hi everyone05:46
brocashelmdoes anyone use veracrypt or anything similar to truecrypt? found out it's no longer properly mounting/unmounting files (they are handled through linux as individual partitions, but the software itself acts like it's not even there). i did a bit of digging and am assuming dbus-x11 is the culprit16:04
brocashelmwhen i try to "unmount" a veracrypt/truecrypt partition through the software, it says "nothing to unmount", but the partitions are still there16:06
odb1 ive heard its possible running xfce on freebsd without dbus...wondering if something similar can be achieved on linux21:14
odb1what are the most user friendly de's/wm's not requiring dbus by default?21:14
odb1https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/xfce4-without-dbus-and-policykit.54674/ - this was the relevant thread - with another link to gentoo ebuilds and gpo.zugaina https://data.gpo.zugaina.org/y2kbadbug/xfce-base/xfce4-session/xfce4-session-4.12.1.ebuild21:17
fsmithredodb1,  https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/community:d-bus_free_software21:27
fsmithredhttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=215821:27
odb1nice I hadnt noticed the window managers in that list for some reason...21:29
fsmithredprobably most window managers will work without dbus21:30
odb1but x.org works right, no config necessary, right?21:30
fsmithredeither you need elogind/libpam-elogind or you need xserver-xorg-legacy and an edit in Xwrapper.config21:30
odb1have you come across real world users of no-dbus?21:31
fsmithredactually I think I read about one other way to do that, either today and yesterday. It's probably on the forum.21:31
odb1or is it mostly people experimenting for a bit and moving on to other things21:31
fsmithredI made a live iso and a few people said they have used it.21:31
fsmithredhttps://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta10-nodbus_amd64-2019-04-16.iso21:32
fsmithredthere's i386 in same directory21:32
odb1any idea with firefox-esr has a ? in your list of compat sw21:33
odb1s/with/why21:34
fsmithrednope. It works.21:34
odb1nice!21:35
odb1so most of the edits were made by msi and chillfan which I @ed in case they are alive and willing to talk21:35
odb1and...they dont show up in users on this ch...are they still active somewhere?21:36
odb1just in case you know21:36
fsmithredI've seen both of them in the past month21:37
odb1i saw msi on dev1g indeed21:38
fsmithredchillfan is sometimes here and in #debianfork, but not often21:38
fsmithredmsi returned recently after a hiatus21:38
fsmithredthe wiki is mostly unmaintained at this point21:39
odb1i figured...thats a very shortlist of working sw...21:39
fsmithredand might get replaced with something else. I think someone is working on that as a side project21:39
odb1youtube-dl would be nice in combi with mpv/vlc21:39
fsmithredyou can get it in the repo, but there's really no point. If it's not already broken, it will be broken soon.21:40
fsmithredjust download the script from git21:40
odb1will an apt update and apt upgrade suffice from that 1 year old image you think?21:41
fsmithredyoutube does not want you to use youtube-dl. They can't stop you, but they can make it difficult.21:41
fsmithredthe nodbus?21:41
odb1yeah21:41
fsmithredyeah, I just booted the iso in qemu and installed ff-esr without doing an upgrade21:41
fsmithredit's set to install without Recommends21:41
odb1i use youtube-dl all the time...works on invidio.us too21:41
odb1and other instance.invidio.us21:42
odb1instances*21:42
fsmithredI keep forgetting about invidio21:42
fsmithred287 packages can be upgraded21:42
odb1nitter instances are great for twitter too...ive not managed to get the equiv project for instagram working though yet21:42
odb1even as a simple user/browser21:43
fsmithrednitter will let you see twitter pages?21:43
odb1they dont quite solve posting/logging in to youtube/twitter itself, but its great for everyday reading/viewing21:43
odb1nitter.net21:43
odb1there are other instances21:43
odb1you can find other neat projects by looking at some instances which list a bunch of other self-hosted projects they have -- > neat trick21:44
odb1theres another page that tracks fediverse instances (mastodon, gnu social and so on) and there is libreho.st which lists a few more interesting groups of people21:46
fsmithreddeadbeef is on that iso and was installed from a deb package. It's not in repo and won't upgrade automatically.21:46
odb1fyi21:46
openbsdtai123I managed to play games on devuan and rpi3b... it works well for many opengl. https://termbin.com/apdg  (setup.c will guide you to install things unix, games, on rpi3b -- with opengl).21:47
masonfsmithred: re: nitter, I say "nit foo" in a shell where foo is a Twitter URL someone's linked, and this runs: https://bpa.st/6XSA21:47
masonUnrelated foo in the script. I overuse foo.21:48
masonI haven't found a reasonable way to get Firefox to just do that for me.21:48
odb1fediverse.network was the site listing many/all instances, though their certif is expired for some reason...still accessible. There are also searx instances. searx.space21:49
masonNitter is nice in that it's free software and you can run your own, also. https://github.com/zedeus/nitter21:50
* mason adds Mastodon to his list of stuff to do on vacation this week, although it's decidedly somewhere after twiki.21:50
odb1ive not noticed any project for fb yet (runs w/o js at least in m.facebook.com) - and linkedin is the ultimate hardest to browse without logging in/js...there are yt vids showing how you can use a google tool to see a page w/o login, though that requires js too21:53
odb1is there a reason why http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ not accessible with https?21:55
masonNot sure who runs it.21:56
masonbbiab, need to find new lamps21:56
fsmithredDocScrutinizer05, ^^^21:57
odb1im guessing thats the only public log fsmithred ?21:59
fsmithredyeah, that's the only one I know about21:59
odb1fsmithred, will searching dbus in d1g show threads mentioning "d-bus" only?22:14
fsmithredsearch for dbus will return threads that have posts that contain the string, dbus22:15
fsmithredor set it for posts - there's a drop-down for that near the bottom22:15
fsmithredsearch nodbus will return a few threads22:15
fsmithred922:16
odb1did you ever post those blend files for nodbus 2019 iso?22:18
odb1as mentioned in thread22:18
odb1did i miss your reply fsmithred ?22:26
fsmithredno, you didn't22:27
fsmithredI missed your last question22:27
fsmithredI'll check22:27
fsmithredno22:29
fsmithredand I think it did not work the last time I tried it22:29
odb1when was that?22:29
fsmithredbefore I made the iso you used22:29
odb1live-sdk...same blends but fails to build/run/makeiso?22:29
odb1before 2019april22:30
odb1or that iso at least22:30
fsmithredwhich was made by installing the older one in a VM and upgrading it, then making the iso with refractasnapshot22:30
odb1ah22:30
fsmithredI think I tried it when I got back from Amsterdam last year, so yeah, it would have been in April22:31
fsmithredI think I had trouble excluding dbus in the build with live-sdk22:31
odb1so those blends have never worked...so...you never got live-sdk to build...22:32
fsmithredyeah, the first one worked22:32
fsmithredwas ascii22:32
odb1which older one... june (1st post in the thread 2018june with debootstrap) - or the sept 2018 ones? - sept 2018 = live-sdk and working?22:33
fsmithredrefracta9-nodbus22:34
fsmithrednot sure. If the file name has date-time stamp, it was probably made with refractasnapshot22:35
fsmithredhave you ever used live-sdk?22:35
odb1also...get.refracta.org gives me "missing issuer certificate" - is it self-signed only?22:38
fsmithredI don't know22:38
odb1i havent, and i understand its longer to learn but quicker to automate after22:38
odb1im going to read up though22:38
fsmithredI just tarred up the beowulf nodbus blend that I tried last year. I'll upload it and you can play with it.22:39
odb1perhaps use certbot or something to have letsencrypt or something?22:41
odb1(too many or somethings)22:41
odb1sure send the tar :)22:41
fsmithredsomeone else set up the site for me22:41
odb1k22:42
fsmithredhttp://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/blends/nodbus-beowulf-blend.tar.xz22:42
fsmithredthe blends for devuan live isos are in git with live-sdk. They are current and should work for you.22:43
fsmithredI suggest that you build the first one without any blend22:43
odb1how many hrs to crash course live-sdk?22:44
fsmithredthen pick a working blend, run it to make sure it works for you22:44
fsmithredtook me a month of deconstructing the heads build.22:44
odb1heads - in git?22:44
odb1or heads distro22:44
fsmithredheads the devuan version of tails22:44
odb1ah22:45
odb1no one has update that iso since...2 years>22:45
odb1or so22:45
fsmithredthere's a howto on the forum, but it might not be completely accurate now22:45
fsmithredhttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=55122:46
odb1unless there is some more recent unofficial heads iso than spring 201822:46
fsmithredI don't know of one22:46
fsmithredbut the blend files should be available, so you could build your own22:46
fsmithredif it's not on git.devuan.org, it's probably still on github.com22:47
odb1heads and blend return nothing in git.dev122:48
fsmithredhttps://heads.dyne.org/wiki/inside-heads.pdf22:51
fsmithredthis is from 2017: https://libraries.io/github/parazyd/heads-build-system22:51
fsmithredparazyd, where is your most recent heads repo or blend files?22:52
odb1i noticed you #! zsh...should i be running that while building?22:52
fsmithredyeah, you must22:52
odb1ah22:52
odb1i guess bash is out22:52
fsmithredyeah22:53
fsmithredzsh -f22:53
fsmithredsource sdk22:53
fsmithredload devuan <arch> <blend name>22:53
fsmithredbuild_iso_dist22:53
fsmithredboot the iso with qemu to test it when it's done22:53
fsmithreddon't like task-xfce-desktop? Change it in the config file to a different one, run it again, and you have an iso with a different de.22:54
parazydfsmithred, odb1: https://github.com/headslive/build-system22:56
fsmithredthanks22:56
parazydnp22:56
odb1ty22:56
parazydAnother setup is here: https://github.com/maemo-leste/image-builder/22:57
parazydBut notably less documentation22:57
fsmithredhave you tried making a beowulf heads yet?22:59
odb1fsmithred, anything to modify in rootfs-overlay in the blends xz file you sent?23:00
fsmithredwhat do you mean?23:00
fsmithredoh, I understand the question23:01
odb1there are also 2 config files, one next to the blend file, and one in the folder beowulf23:01
fsmithredI don't know the answer because I haven't looked at that in a year.23:01
fsmithredcorrect23:01
fsmithredthe one in the beowulf dir has the package lists23:01
fsmithredthe one next to the blend file has blend settings23:01
fsmithredone thing you will need to do is add a line to the blend map in live-sdk/sdk after you clone the repo.23:02
fsmithredso it knows about your blend when you make one23:03
odb1you said 1 month to master live-sdk or with a specific goal in mind (heads, as you mentioned)23:03
fsmithredwell, goal was desktop-live23:03
fsmithrednot a month to run it and make a heads iso23:03
odb1my goal would be to just refresh the isos...nodbus to current stable sw versions...23:03
fsmithredthat took proably a couple hours total23:04
odb1from there I might get more ambitious and try seeing if i can make a heads with openbox/icewm/ or xfce if this is all easier than expected, big if23:04
fsmithredeasier way is to install it in VM and update/upgrade and run refractasnapshot periodically23:05
fsmithredcheck simple-ice blend where you downloaded the nodbus blend files23:05
odb12 years of upgrade could indeed create issues, any way to upgrade partially, like to debian 10, then upgrade since to today?23:05
odb1or even smaller bitesized updates?23:06
fsmithredoh, don't try to use refractasnapshot with heads23:06
fsmithredheads doesn't have live-config, last time I checked23:06
fsmithredbut the nodbus will work that way. That's how I did it last time.23:06
odb1ohno23:09
fsmithred?23:09
odb1heads cant be snapshotted with your tool23:09
fsmithredactually, I think you can do it.23:09
fsmithredBut you won't be able to install refractasnaphot23:09
fsmithreduh, I'm not even sure if heads still has live-boot23:10
fsmithredif so, you could just put the refractasnapshot files in place without installing the package23:10
fsmithredit'll run fine that way23:10
odb1..like i extract the part of deb package with the folder hierarchy to / (root)?23:14
fsmithredthe 2018 heads iso is beowulf23:14
fsmithred934 packages can be upgraded23:15
fsmithredI just put the .deb in its own directory, run 'ar x' on it and copy the files into place23:15
fsmithredyou could install refractasnapshot, but it adds a bunch of stuff (live-boot, live-config, syslinux and more)_23:18
odb1fsmithred, "copy the files into place" thats specifically what i want to streamline... a single cp ( ) -t / would be quicker than multiple cp's , one per target dir ( /usr/, /lib, etc)23:32
fsmithredexcept the files aren't in their respective target directories in the .deb23:33
odb1yeah that lengthens the process each time then23:33
fsmithredit's not going to save you much by doing it that way. You can avoid live-config, but not the other dependencies.23:34
fsmithredeasier just to install the package23:34
fsmithredprobably better to build heads from scratch each time rather than install a bunch of stuff that isn't really needed except to build isos.23:35
fsmithredless software = less attack surface23:36
odb1is 16gb enough to build in vm?23:36
fsmithredplenty23:36
odb18gb?23:36
fsmithredI usually use 12-14 for building xfce isos23:37
fsmithred8 will work but might get tight23:37
odb1as per htop/other mem tracker?23:37
odb1ok23:37
fsmithredtalking disk space here23:37
odb1i disappointingly realized the device i had couldnt use 32gb23:37
odb116max23:37
odb1yeah23:37
odb1...lol23:38
odb1was that live-sdk sufficient, or should i read every other wiki/friendsofdebian/readmes on live-sdk?23:39
odb1dev1 wiki ofc23:39
fsmithredthe howto should be sufficient23:39
fsmithredyou have a little shell scripting experience?23:40
odb1very basic23:40
fsmithredthat's enough23:40
fsmithredmost of it is already there in front of your face23:40
odb1and i can man or google what i dont understand - characters are harder though23:41
odb1so if i build and it fails, how do I (or you, when you usually do it) know what to change in config/.blend file etc?23:42
fsmithredlook at the output in the terminal and look in the log files that get created23:42
fsmithredread the instruction on the live-sdk git page (README.md)23:44
odb1i figured re output/logs, but im entering into the abyss, hopefully your success/fail at troubleshooting these hiccups is good enough..50% success? 25%?23:46
fsmithredone common killer of builds is to have a non-existent package in the list23:47
odb1vm-sdk is irrelevant, even if i do all this in vm?23:48
fsmithredcorrect23:48
fsmithreduh23:48
fsmithreddon't try to run live-sdk in a vm23:49
fsmithredI suggested using a vm as a build system with refractasnapshot23:49
fsmithredwhich will work nicely with the nodbus build23:50
fsmithredfor heads, I suggest live-sdk because you get a clean (unused) build every time23:50
fsmithredand because using refracta tools with it would add a bunch more software23:50
fsmithredand I don't know how that would affect the security23:51
odb1noted23:53
odb1can i accidentally forget to install dependancies? or will it complain early and visibly enough23:53
odb1im also using trisquel's alpha atm, in case youve heard of any successes/failures building with that...or maybe ill just reboot from devuan 3 recent iso23:55
odb1i think ill do the latter, actually23:56

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!