libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2020-08-30

masonSuaveDandy: Hey, so, ZFS is fine on SSDs. It supports TRIM of a couple flavours, depending on which ZFS you're using.00:52
masonSuaveDandy: For Devuan, you can either use the Debian DKMS or build custom packages from upstream. I build the custom packages so I can centralize my builds.00:54
SuaveDandyI've also read that ZFS takes lotta RAM.01:14
masonSuaveDandy: I've run it on a desktop with 1G of RAM. If you use deduplication, yeah, it wants a lot of RAM.01:16
masonDecent rule of thumb is that you won't have to think about it if you've got 4G or more.01:16
masonHeading off to dinner, but I'll be back and can answer questions in detail, so load 'em up and I'll answer when I get back.01:17
masonThere's also #zfsonlinux.01:17
SuaveDandyThanks.01:18
SuaveDandyIs ZFS more reliable than BtrFS? And what if I'm doing some RAM-intensive tasks? Say, uh, gaming.01:19
specingSuaveDandy: you can use btrfs and run dedup overnight once in a blue moon01:21
masonSuaveDandy: ZFS is dramatically more reliable than BtrFS in most situations.01:27
SuaveDandymason: How does the native ZFS encryption compare to LUKS?02:02
HurgotronI was very surprised yesterday that LUKS does multithreaded decryption at least... didn't try encryption02:05
HurgotronI think FreeBSD gei doesn't do that,02:06
Hurgotron*geli02:06
zalckoscan I just follow this guide to install the linux-libre kernel?02:39
zalckoshttps://jxself.org/linux-libre/02:39
zalckosshould I install  linux-libre-5.7 instead of the latest (5.8) if my system is currently running 5.7?02:39
masonSuaveDandy: Native ZFS encryption is okay. I'm not a big fan of it for a number of reasons - first off, it only allows for one keyslot per dataset. Second, it's really problematic trying to send a dataset from an encrypted pool to an unencrypted pool. I prefer using the underlying encryption available - LUKS or GELI.02:51
zalckosyes, the link I posted works, just rebooted successfully :)03:24
zalckos5.8 works too03:25
zalckostheir instructions on apt-key management are just outdated03:25
masonOh, jxself.05:18
masonHaven't seen him in years.05:18
masonHrm, wondering what was wrong with the apt-key key management. That all still works, even though /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d is what everyone likes now.05:19
mason(Downside: you have to know how to use gpg to remove keys rather than just cd'ing into a directory and using rm.)05:20
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDrc-service stop opensmtpd doesn't work on beowulf08:59
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthe daemon continues to run08:59
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdespite saying it stopped08:59
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDstarting is broken too09:03
razorlikesHey everyone, I'm trying to install Devuan Jessie but even when I use archive.devuan.org the installer fails to download some files. Looking at the log it seems you updated the Release files to only include SHA256 hashes but the installer is looking for MD5 hashes and won't download the package files. Any idea what I could do?12:41
CAPTCHA_REQUIREDnvm12:42
Xelraadevuan jessie? you mean ascii12:55
Xelraaah its beouwolf now actually12:55
razorlikesNo I mean Jessie. 1.0.0 I can't use a newer Release because I am stuck on Kernel 2.6.35 and newer Releases use a newer glibc version which won't work on my Kernel12:58
razorlikesThe Release file here: https://archive.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/Release only contains SHA256 hashes but the installer (at least the armhf installer) only looks for MD5 hashes and won't download any files since it can't check the hash.13:01
razorlikesOr is there any way to disable the hash check in the installer?13:02
fsmithredrazorlikes, you could install from one of the live isos. The live installer just copies the running system to hard drive. No mirror involved. Then you should be able to install other packages (after you edit sources.list)13:14
razorlikesfsmithred Where can I find Jessie isos for armhf? I onyl found some for i386 and amd64.13:17
fsmithredoh, there are no live isos for arm*13:18
fsmithredthere are disk images, though. Are any of them right for your hardware?13:18
fsmithredYou looked at these?  https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/embedded/13:19
razorlikesSadly not I'm gonna try ony of the RPI images the only thing that's changed among these should be the kernel, right?13:19
fsmithredI don't know13:20
fsmithrednever played with arm stuff13:20
razorlikesWell I'll see how this works out. Someone should look at the Jessie sources tho. Even though they're out of LTS now this effectively breaks all the installer images.13:22
fsmithredI'll pass the word along about the md5sums13:24
razorlikesGreat! Thanks for the info!13:25
SuaveDandyGuys. I can't boot the minimal live ISO. I tried writing it to USB with both Rufus and Win32 Image Writer.15:58
SuaveDandyWhat am I doing wrong?15:58
SuaveDandyI used the dd mode in Rufus, ofc.15:58
fsmithredSuaveDandy, bios or uefi?16:19
fsmithredthe official minimal-live is for bios only. If you need uefi, I made one and put it here: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_uefi_minimal-live.iso16:21
SuaveDandyFor BIOS only? OOF.16:22
SuaveDandyIt's antiX Core all over again.16:22
fsmithredThat iso is not in the SHASUMS file. sha256sum is 8655c89c68a454458e3d9ea1c2e0b266315f72a2f81f6e043309a4d334d0a893  devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_uefi_minimal-live.iso16:24
SuaveDandyThere are Devuan derivatives?16:25
SuaveDandyI am surprised.16:25
SuaveDandyHuh. Refracta has no Fish or Zsh in its repos.16:32
fsmithredrefracta has no repos16:32
fsmithredit's just a respin of devuan16:32
SuaveDandyI mean, in its package.list.16:32
fsmithreduse sshfs16:32
fsmithredor sftp16:33
fsmithredor are you talking about another fish?16:33
fsmithredbrb16:33
SuaveDandyThe shell.16:33
SuaveDandyThe main page says it only includes the popular packages.16:34
fsmithredok, I see fish in the repo. This is the first time I've heard of it.16:40
SuaveDandyThere are all kinds of shells available.16:45
SuaveDandyTho Bash, Bourne, Ash, Dash, Zsh, Fish and Pwsh are the most well-known.16:46
fsmithredand bash is probably the most common default shell in linux16:47
SuaveDandyIt is.16:47
SuaveDandyTho Alpine uses Ash.16:47
SuaveDandyAnd Ubuntu used Dash.16:47
SuaveDandyAndroid probably uses Bourne.16:48
SuaveDandyBut I'm not sure.16:48
SuaveDandyUbuntu uses Bash as well now, obv. I mean, it used all kinds of obscure things before. Like Upstart. Remember Upstart?16:50
SuaveDandyYeah, that was a thing.16:50
fsmithredyes, I remember upstart, and I think ubuntu used bash way back when I tried it.16:51
fsmithredwhen they were closer to debian16:52
SuaveDandyI mean, as far as I remember, Canonical made Dash.16:53
SuaveDandyI have a question: what's the difference between Refracta and Devuan exactly? I'm still scratching my head trying to figure this out.16:54
SuaveDandyOther then the Refracta Tools.16:55
fsmithredthe package selection is slightly different...16:55
fsmithredpackages are mostly installed without Recommends16:56
fsmithredand mostly without metapackages16:56
fsmithredso if you try to remove something, it won't try to remove the whole desktop16:56
fsmithredand a few config tweaks16:56
SuaveDandyHmmmm.16:56
SuaveDandyThe more intricate package management, you say?16:57
SuaveDandyInteresting.16:57
fsmithredit's the same package management as debian/devuan, just some different choices16:57
SuaveDandyThe amount of packages tho. Is it comparable?16:58
fsmithredsimilar. Refracta tends toward smaller and simpler. It used to fit on a CD.16:59
SuaveDandyThere doesn't seem to be any minimal ISO tho.17:00
fsmithredfor refracta?17:01
SuaveDandyYes.17:01
fsmithredcan't remember if I updated the No-X isos17:01
SuaveDandyYa have those as well?17:01
fsmithredI usually make no-X isos first17:02
fsmithredof the testing suite17:02
fsmithredand I did have some for beowulf, but I didn't update them17:02
fsmithredand I did the same with ascii17:03
fsmithredpartly because I inherited the minimal-live, so I dropped a task.17:03
fsmithredI'll probably make no-X isos for chimaera. Currently I made a minimal-with-X chimaera iso, but it's probably a little rough around the edges.17:04
SuaveDandyThe site background seems to stretch weirdly on my phone.17:06
SuaveDandyProbably because of that 9:16 aspect ratio.17:06
fsmithredoh, we had some problems getting that to look right.17:07
fsmithredand I'm pretty sure we didn't test it on a phone. Sorry.17:07
SuaveDandyThat's fine. Just pointing this up FYI.17:07
fsmithredI have to go out. bbl (in a few hours)17:08
SuaveDandyWill the Refracta Beowulf minimal be available or should I just use Devuan minimal for now?17:09
fsmithreduse the devuan minimal17:14
masonStealth: If you look at the man page for it, dash is a port of NetBSD's ash.18:38
masonMistab - SuaveDandy seems to have left.18:38

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