libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-09-08

fsmithredlinux-image-5.8.0-1-amd6400:02
brocashelmok, it was kinda confusing me as to which one it actually was00:03
fsmithredapt-cache search linux-image-500:07
gnarfacebrocashelm: most likely you can exclude the *-dbg ones and the *-unsigned ones00:14
gnarfacebrocashelm: and the *-pae ones are only for 32-bit boards that can handle more than 4GB of ram, which is far more rare than the incidents of people installing this kernel00:18
xrogaanIt's not so much being replaced, projects have a natural turnover.00:19
xrogaanThe systemd thing accelerated people leaving IIUC00:19
gnarfacebrocashelm: (though if you really want to boot 32-bit linux on a amd64 board, the *-pae* ones may actually have a good use case.00:19
gnarface)00:19
SoltisOkay so ... that doesn't solve the immediate problem: vim without full throttle stupidity.00:30
gnarfaceSoltis: can the package be rebuilt without canberra?  or maybe there's another package that doesn't have the graphical dependencies?  for example there is emacs-nox00:32
fsmithredvim-tiny needs less00:33
Soltisvim-nox also depends on it00:33
Soltis... holy god, have these guys been drinking mercury since birth?00:33
SoltisI saw someone offer the tissue paper thin argument that it was fine because alsa isn't x.00:33
fsmithreduh, vim-tiny does not need libcanberra is what I meant00:33
fsmithredlol00:34
gnarfaceSoltis: probably something worse and far more sinister; they're probably completely competent and consciously committing evil.  i just noticed who the libcanberra maintainer is.00:34
danuanwhy would a commented out line after localhost in /etc/hostname  actually help in setting the hostname from dhcp repply and not set it if there is no commented out line00:35
gnarfacefsmithred: you're right, though the fact that vim-nox does is pretty counter intuitive00:35
fsmithredyou're being polite00:35
gnarfaceand i just noticed emacs-nox depends on libasound2 directly :-/00:35
Soltisgnarface: Well, yes, just between us chickens the odds this is accidental stupidity is effectively zero.00:36
gnarfaceat least in ceres, anyway00:36
fsmithredso your editor can make sounds. Oh goody.00:36
brocashelmlol00:36
SoltisSo I do have vim-tiny installed, but it doesn't create a 'vim' command, just 'vi'. Let's see if it'll accept (and correctly handle) my .vimrc ....00:38
gnarfaceSoltis: there might still be some difference between vim and vi, but there might also be something about the binary just behaving differently depending on what it is named00:40
Soltisgnarface: Yeah, I'm used to that, but in this case it doesn't look like it works correctly.00:49
djphSoltis: so, install vim?00:49
Soltisdjph: I'm not putting alsa on a damned server. That's slovenly administration.00:50
djphSoltis: O-o ALSA for _vim_ ?00:50
Soltisdjph: Yes! Even vim-nox has it as a dep now00:51
djpho_O00:51
djphjeebus00:51
djphwell, that's annoying and stupid00:52
Soltisdjph: Welcome to the modern world of Linux. If you don't have a whiskey bottle at your desk, you're either an idiot or a better man than I.00:52
djphSoltis: I mean, I know at least enough to not run systemd ...00:52
Soltisdjph: Hahaha00:52
SoltisYou know, I used to have _fun_ administering Linux systems.00:53
rrqspeech interface is quite useful for anyone with reduced eyesight01:05
Soltisrrq: That's true, but it's also irrelevant. While non-zero, the number of blind server administrators is quite low - much too low to justify contaminating a dep tree like that.01:17
Soltisrrq: Especially since the correct place to handle that would be in the desktop environment they're using01:18
fsmithredor make it optional01:18
masonHrm, I'm not seeing vim-nox depending on ALSA. What's the chain?01:24
masonAnd which ALSA package?01:25
fsmithredlibcanberra - libasound - alsa-utils01:26
masonBut, that's not a dependency.01:26
fsmithredin ceres01:27
masonAh, I don't run that anywhere.01:27
masonI guess I should spin up a test box.01:29
mason(No pun intended.)01:29
rwpOMG!  Am I reading this right?  vim depends upon ALSA?  WAT?!01:32
rwpI think I never noticed this before because I am not a vim user.  I install nvi everywhere.  [ That's right, and keep way off my lawn! :-) ]01:37
rwpAlso I am typing this in Emacs.  For which I am complaining about the hard dbus dependency even in emacs-nox.01:38
gnarfacerwp: though most stuff that depends on dbus will work fine without it if you uninstall dbus later01:41
rwpEmacs then emits a warning message.  It works.  But the warning message is annoying.01:41
rwpA friend of mine found a way to disable that warning message.  But I have didn't fight long enough and have dbus installed now.01:42
masonupstream and stow can fix that for you :)01:45
rwpmason, Yes.  I can do the "Linux From Scratch" thing.  Again.  But I have been enjoying timely security upgrades appearing in the queue without my panic to get them created.01:51
masonThat's fair. Welcome to dbus. :P01:51
rwpIt's just so nice to be able to apt-get upgrade and avoid most security vulnerabilities.01:51
rwpBy the time I read about some vulnerability most of the time when I look I find that I already have the mitigation patch installed.  That's just so nice.01:52
masonsure01:52
masonagreed01:52
rwpWhen I tried to figure out why Emacs wanted dbus about the only thing I found was that someone could change a font globally and it would ripple into Emacs too.01:53
rwpThat is not compelling for me.  Running emacs-nox inside an XTerm.  I mean...  How does that work there?01:53
sunshaviemacs-nox does need dbus02:06
rwpsunshavi, What does it need it for?  Or are you simply confirming the Depends upon it?02:51
rennjit needs that sweet sweet machine-id03:07
rennjyou know /var/lib/dbus/machine-id /etc/machine-id  chrome,firefox,openoffice all check03:07
sunshavirwp: emacs-nox does NOT need dbus03:22
sunshavirwp: Perhaps a question on the mailing list (emacs-devel). Could solve the question ' what it is required dbus for emacs-nox03:25
sunshavirwp: on the tty or Xterm. It could be used for notifications with the var DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS03:28
sunshavirwp: also on emacs-nox you could configure emacs with '--without-dbus'03:30
kreyren_How do i get all the dependencies required to build emacs on devuan?03:35
* kreyren_ remembers there being a cool command to install all required packages~03:35
fsmithredapt-get build-dep emacs03:36
kreyren_fsmithred, thanku!03:36
rwprennj, Right.  That machine-id that I just learned existed a few days ago.03:59
rwpsunshavi, I don't think it should hard Depend upon dbus either.  But emacs-nox Depends: libdbus-1-3 and so it is now.04:00
rwpI could rebuild the package for myself.  But dbus just sitting there not being used is less of a problem than other things that must be more actively avoided.04:01
sunshavirwp: '... actively avoided'. Like which ones?04:15
linux_nMy devuan time was correct but when dual booted to windows and back to devuan now my devuan time is incorrect. Anyway to fix devuan time?05:24
yanmaanilinux_n: Oh yeah, it's the hardware clock setting wrongly05:27
yanmaaniLinux and Windows use different systems05:27
yanmaanihttps://mashtips.com/fix-linux-windows-dual-boot-clock-different-time/05:28
linux_nI get this error: timedatectl: command not found05:40
linux_nMaybe those instructions are for os that uses systemd like debian but devuan uses a different one.05:44
yanmaaniyeah, it seems like it's harder to do in systemd. You can change it in Windows too. Or you can just use ntp to set the time on boot05:46
linux_nI read this: timedatectl is part of systemd package.05:49
linux_nso wont work on devuan only debian i think05:50
yanmaanioh yeah, I mean outside of systemd05:50
yanmaanimaybe you can just run ntp on boot05:51
linux_ndevuan uses sysvinit instead of systemd.05:52
linux_nok thaks05:52
linux_nthanks05:52
systemdlete2xfce weather widget was working until... about a week ago maybe?  At least, that's when I started noticing.  There was an API update for met.no -- did xfce devs update the weather applet?06:37
systemdlete2(I'm getting so tired of these API changes... why don't they just make everything upgradeable, but backwards compatible?)06:38
systemdlete2Oh, yeah.  This is xfce on ascii, not beowulf.06:38
systemdlete2also, on another ascii, the isc-dhcp-client does not send the host-name parameter it seems.06:39
systemdlete2Originally, the line in the dhclient.conf file read:  "send host-name = gethostbyname()"06:40
systemdlete2The docs for the version (4.3.5) indicate that the syntax does not indicate an equals sign.  I removed it, just to see what would happen.  No change.  The dhcp server does not record the host-name for the client, but does for other clients.06:41
gnarfacesystemdlete2: try it like this: send host-name "andare.example.com";06:51
gnarfacesystemdlete2: no =06:51
gnarfacesystemdlete2: and with a hardcoded string first (test the gethostbyname call separately)06:51
systemdlete2As I said, above, I tried that and no luck.  I also tried it with a static string like you suggest, and that did not work either.06:51
gnarfacehmmm06:51
systemdlete2Yeah.  hmmmm.06:52
gnarfacesure it's the right file?06:52
systemdlete2That's the only conf file there, and it is the one containing the send command.06:52
gnarfacei vaguely recall this coming up a long time ago and there needing to be some command-line flag too06:52
systemdlete2oh great.06:52
systemdlete2I thought computers were supposed to make things simpler?06:53
systemdlete2OK, I'll take a look at that.  thanks.06:53
gnarfaceso some of this information may be inaccurate because the memory is dusty but it had to do with some protocol, standard, RFC, or something like that being disabled by default in isc-dhcp-client, and that being the part that included clients specifying their own hostname to the dhcp server (some microsoft concoction)06:54
Jjp137systemdlete2, I use the xfce weather widget on beowulf and it's also broken there; here's an issue about it: https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-weather-plugin/-/issues/2706:55
Jjp137nothing we can do I guess06:55
systemdlete2Jjp137:  This happens EVERY time that met.no chaanges the API.06:56
gnarfacesystemdlete2: (maybe one of those RFCs mentioned at the bottom of the dhclient.conf manpage)06:56
systemdlete2gnarface:  RFC2132, RFC213106:56
gnarfacesystemdlete2: yes, one of those perhaps06:57
systemdlete2I don't understand why met.no can't just leave the standing API in place, and just add new functions as needed.   That way they'd be compatible forwards and back.06:57
systemdlete2https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1497207:00
rwpsunshavi, Why systemd of course!07:08
systemdlete2gnarface:  On beowulf, which uses 4.4.1, the same exact send command works.07:12
systemdlete2send host-name = gethostbyname()07:13
systemdlete2;07:13
systemdlete2btw, now the weather applet is working again.07:13
systemdlete2but the UI is not working.  There is missing info in the forecast data, I can't switch between tabs, and I can't close it either.07:14
systemdlete2Had to brute-force kill the weather app.07:16
systemdlete2Restarted; waiting for data update.07:16
systemdlete2Actually, more vexing than either of these problems, making a system unusable:  On my laptop (Cherry Trail) when the screen is rotated to landscape, the screen is leaving artifacts which do not clean up even if I move some windows around, trying to sort of "erase" the artifacts.  They appear on the portion of the screen that would not be there in portrait mode, that is, the right hand section (about 1/3) of the screen.07:19
systemdlete2That's with beowulf.  Ascii did not have this issue.07:20
systemdlete2I should also mention that xfce seems to work ok on beowulf (no artifacts), but mate has problem.07:23
systemdlete2And I still can't get multi-tap functions to work, which kind of puts the kabosh on using the machine as a tablet, practically speaking.07:24
systemdlete2nvm.  On xfce, the double-tap does appear as an option I can change after all.07:27
systemdlete2I guess I'll just use xfce instead.07:27
systemdlete2It's OK, all I do with the tablet is read, and as long as I can do that much, I don't care too much about the other functions and issues.07:28
gnarfacesystemdlete2: hmmm, i wonder if it's possible you're just missing the package for gethostbyname()?08:04
gnarfacesystemdlete2: that might be implemented by a separate package08:05
systemdlete2wouldn't dhclient catch an error since it is launched with -v?08:05
systemdlete2but I'll look, thanks08:05
gnarfacei'm not sure, i just thought i recall that being in a separate package08:06
gnarfacesystemdlete2: you wouldn't be missing the "hostname" package on that system, would you?08:10
danuansystemdlete2: if we are talking about hostname not setting from dhcp , on my netboot systems for some reason /etc/hostname  wants a #oldhostname as second line after localhost in first08:27
danuani have no idea why though08:28
ottavioIs this article still valid https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/stretch-to-beowulf.html13:15
syco-hello13:47
Jorilhello!13:50
sammi`bon jo13:52
user1041привед13:53
SuaveDandyHello.14:48
SuaveDandyIs there such branch as contrib in Devuan?14:49
SuaveDandyExamples only show that there are only main and non-free.14:49
systemdlete2gnarface, danuan:  Just FYI.  After some further investigation, I found out what was going wrong.  Somehow, the checkbox setting hostname in wicd was getting unset, maybe after I switched from fixed to dhcp addresses.16:12
systemdlete2It turns out that wicd does not actually use the /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf directly, it has its own versions in /etc/wicd.   This must be why we all love networkmanager and wicd tools so much.16:13
systemdlete2It's actually self-documenting!  The generated file ends up in /var/lib somewhere, and in it, it says that it will replace the next (last?) line with an appropriate send command... except that explanation is not clear until you run wicd with the checkbox checked.16:14
systemdlete2I couldn't tell if it wanted me to just plop my hostname in the next line, or if it was a name=val pair, or the actual invocation.  Turns out the latter, but... well, anyway.  It's fixed.16:15
ottavioIs it possible to choose openrc as init in the installer?16:52
specingyes16:53
ottavioHas anybody converted LMDE3 (based on Stretch) to Beowulf?20:45
gnarfacethanks for the update systemdlete222:51
systemdlete2gnarface:  Yvw, actually.  You are a huge help around here, as are many of the others.23:46
yanmaaniAny way to automatically start zram on boot without systemd?23:48
buZzsure, the normal way, with a init script23:51
buZzlacking the knowledge to do so, you could just plonk the commands to start it in rc.local23:51
rennjthe goodstuff 4 lines for me23:52
rennj# 400MB swap on zram23:52
rennjmodprobe zram23:52
rennjecho 419430400 > /sys/block/zram0/disksize23:52
rennjmkswap /dev/zram0  > /dev/null 2>&123:52
rennjswapon /dev/zram0 -p 10  > /dev/null 2>&123:52
rennjbeen using in vm for couple of months now seems to work23:53
buZzzram frw :)23:53
rennjembedded fu23:53
rennjthis vmware vm run in ram, so never really hits disk unless i fdisk/mkfs vmware.vmdk23:54
gnarfacenice, rennj23:54
rennj5 year old ssd 17TB of writes to 500MB sdd23:55
rennjmy win10 gaming vm is the pig23:56
buZzanother of my fav blockdev modules in kernel is 'bcache'23:56
buZzjust -amazing- what performance you get caching a LVM pool on spinning rust with a NVMe :D23:56
rennjyeah looks nice, like zil/arc of zfs23:59

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