| gnarface | so what's a good IMAPS capable mail client these days? thunderbird seems to have finally jumped the shark. | 01:50 |
|---|---|---|
| hagbard_ | i'm still using mutt | 01:59 |
| * Xenguy has fond memories of mutt... | 02:06 | |
| gnarface | some of my services cannot be convinced not to send HTML bills, unfortunately | 02:08 |
| gnarface | don't think mutt is gonna cut it | 02:08 |
| lyubov | mutt can easily render html via the terminal w3m browser! | 02:08 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: I had a setup that redirected HTML emails to 'lynx -dump', i.e. flattened the HTML emails to text. It worked quite well for my purposes. | 02:10 |
| gnarface | heh, yea i was hoping not to have to resort to something like that but i guess that's where we're at today, forking thunderbird or wedging web browser into mutt | 02:21 |
| Xenguy | I'd share the config, but it's been so long since I defected to webmail that there isn't even a .muttrc file on this system. | 02:30 |
| gnarface | it's fine, i'll figure something out or maybe they'll just fix thunderbird | 02:31 |
| gnarface | it seems to no longer accept self-signed certificates, not even with user override, and they're talking about it like it's a bug but for some reason i have a memory from about a month ago wherein i was reading about them planning this | 02:32 |
| gnarface | i dug up some info about an "about:config" fix but it didn't do anything, so i'm presuming it's based on outdated info | 02:32 |
| fsmithred | gnarface, I started using claws mail on the laptop | 02:33 |
| fsmithred | still using t'bird on the desktop | 02:33 |
| fsmithred | but if I need to send encrypted mail, I must use the laptop. Enigmail is broken much of the time. | 02:33 |
| gnarface | noted, fsmithred. thanks | 02:34 |
| fsmithred | both claws and sylpheed work fine with imap | 02:35 |
| gnarface | heh, now thunderbird is missing from chimera and ceres completely and i'm left to wonder if i should even expect it to return | 03:32 |
| fsmithred | gnarface, I see 1:78.3.1-2 in ceres and 1:68.12.0-1 in chimaera | 03:56 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: it is still in my cache from last night too, but i notice it not present anymore in pkginfo.devuan.org as of today though | 04:04 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: and 78.3.1-2 is the fucked up one | 04:05 |
| fsmithred | I just updated using sledjhamr | 04:05 |
| fsmithred | oh | 04:05 |
| gnarface | it's failing on a complaint about not recognizing the issuing authority, but i'm not sure they actually have diagnosed the cause correctly, because i've actually supplied said issuing authority's cert to thunderbird, and it shows up as a valid authority in the cert manager. so the bug report's theory that it has to do with a simple erroneous security check about making http accesses to port 993 seems to be missing the | 04:07 |
| gnarface | larger picture | 04:07 |
| gnarface | (and it was all working for a few years before this, so this isn't a new change on my end causing this) | 04:08 |
| fsmithred | I did not know about the problem | 04:09 |
| fsmithred | and I'm going to check pkgmaster, if it ever finishes updating | 04:09 |
| gnarface | it apparently only shows up if you're using encrypted connections with self-signed keys, but copying my CA's cert to /usr/local/share/ca-certificates/ used to be a sufficient and proper way to address that | 04:11 |
| fsmithred | it's showing up in pkgmaster, too | 04:12 |
| gnarface | on the web search? | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | no | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | apt policy thunderbird | 04:12 |
| gnarface | so if i put pkgmaster.devuan.org in my sources.list it will show up, you're saying, despite that it's not showing up in https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ right now? | 04:13 |
| gnarface | oh, pkgmaster != pkginfo | 04:14 |
| gnarface | i knew that, i must be getting too hungry to think straight here | 04:14 |
| Xenguy | The devil is in the details, ain't it? | 04:14 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: so i'll just assume the issue with pkginfo is unrelated for now? | 04:14 |
| fsmithred | I guess. What repo are you using? I've got sledjhamr and pkgmaster now, and it shows up in both | 04:15 |
| fsmithred | brb | 04:16 |
| gnarface | i had just been using the round-robin | 04:16 |
| gnarface | it being present doesn't address my actual issue though, merely proves that it's not going away imminently | 04:17 |
| fsmithred | are there rumors that it's going away? | 04:18 |
| fsmithred | I've suspected for a long time that it's spyware, in which case it will probably stick around | 04:18 |
| gnarface | no, i just had a showstopping bug then woke up to what, due to an apparent bug in pkginfo right now, i misdiagnosed as what i thought was the package being hastily struck from history | 04:19 |
| gnarface | which has happened before but not with something this well known | 04:19 |
| fsmithred | now I see. | 04:20 |
| gnarface | and, as of this latest release, it is definitely spyware under the default configuration | 04:20 |
| gnarface | but even that isn't actually the foremost issue i was having with using it last night | 04:20 |
| gnarface | also, neither here nor there, but it takes a really long time to start up now | 04:24 |
| gnarface | that's definitely another regression since the previous version but not one i've got the same amount of confidence in getting fixed | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | where does it seem to be hanging? | 04:25 |
| gnarface | before opening the initial window | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | what's your desktop? | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | dm? | 04:26 |
| gnarface | no dm, running startx directly into enlightenment 0.24.2-5 | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | I don't have a real ceres install. Just chimaera. And maybe some ceres VM. I'll have to play with those tomorrow. | 04:27 |
| gnarface | i can tell it is thunderbird hanging not enlightenment though, "top" shows thunderbird pegging 1 cpu core to 100% for a good while... i'll have to time it | 04:28 |
| fsmithred | oh | 04:28 |
| fsmithred | kill that sucker | 04:28 |
| gnarface | well it eventually does open if i wait | 04:28 |
| gnarface | but it takes a LONG time. like a LOT longer than the previous version | 04:28 |
| gnarface | i think you'll notice it too, unless the issue turns out to be related to a corruption in my config or something | 04:29 |
| fsmithred | I'm still using 68 in beowulf | 04:29 |
| gnarface | heh, yea i would recommend sticking with that. i might have to go back to it actually. | 04:29 |
| gnarface | or maybe i'll try out this claws thing | 04:30 |
| fsmithred | yeah, you might like it. Not quite the bells and whistles of t'bird, but there are a lot of plugins for special things. | 04:31 |
| fsmithred | time for bed. good luck. | 04:33 |
| gnarface | thanks | 04:33 |
| fsmithred | and good night | 04:33 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: As I recall, sylpheed-claws was a very nice, minimalist GUI email client. I do recall that some folks would mention this one thing that it didn't handle well, but can't remember the specifics now. Just something to be aware of... | 05:01 |
| Xenguy | I'm sure that for many use cases, it would work just great... | 05:01 |
| Xenguy | It's a super lean client | 05:02 |
| gnarface | noted | 05:02 |
| Xenguy | It has PGP support if IIRC | 05:02 |
| gnarface | thunderbird takes around 2 minutes to start still, but i found a workaround for the self-signed key issue by paying closer attention to the interface for my CA's entry in the authorities tab of the cert manager | 14:47 |
| gnarface | there was a checkbox for allowing the cert to identify web pages which was not on by default, and somehow that seems to work around the prior refusal of the key for imaps | 14:48 |
| gnarface | er, the signed key | 14:49 |
| gnarface | not sure why that isn't implied or if it was supposed to be on all along | 14:49 |
| gnarface | it is weird that there is a checkbox for web servers and a checkbox for email users unless it just means any servers by "web servers | 14:52 |
| gnarface | " | 14:52 |
| DHE | it may be for identifying users/senders/recipients rather than the server itself | 15:06 |
| mason | gnarface: Thunderbird is often painful and slow. My wife is halfway to jumping over to Mutt as a result. | 16:00 |
| gnarface | it has definitely been getting slower | 16:03 |
| mason | gnarface: the part that's pernicious is that it's fairly opaque about what it's doing as it slows. | 17:44 |
| kreyren | How do i check if apt is locked? | 17:58 |
| * kreyren needs something to put in cronjob so that it's not trying to execute apt when it's locked | 17:58 | |
| cronolio | find out where is apt lock file is placed | 18:17 |
| Hazuki | question...i've made a Clearlooks LXQt theme that just got accepted into LXQt's git repo. I also have Cinnabar and DarkPurpy variants they didn't accept. Would the Devuan team be interested in those? | 18:18 |
| kreyren | cronolio, /var/lib/dpkg/lock but that is present at all time | 18:18 |
| kreyren | and using flock() doesn't return a sane exit code | 18:18 |
| cronolio | cronjob with flock ? | 18:19 |
| kreyren | cronolio, that was the plan but ain't working | 18:20 |
| cronolio | while true do; if [ apt lock file exists ] then sleep 10; else run_your_command; exit; fi; done | 18:22 |
| n4dir | won't that run forever? | 18:24 |
| cronolio | if apt run forever - sure | 18:25 |
| n4dir | i meant while true | 18:25 |
| n4dir | might be me, but i see no exit for that. | 18:26 |
| n4dir | ah, damn. | 18:26 |
| cronolio | kreyren yeah these files /var/lib/dpkg/{lock,lock-frontend} exisys any time. lsof return something if they used | 18:37 |
| kreyren | cronolio, i tried to run apt-get upgrade while checking lsof which state does not change >.> | 18:37 |
| cronolio | looks like they only locked for apt update/install, idk maybe there some another lock for update :) | 18:39 |
| cronolio | ah u run upgrade. hm | 18:40 |
| cronolio | upgrade says apt 5171 root 5uW REG 8,1 0 524483 /var/lib/dpkg/lock | 18:42 |
| cronolio | use lsof -n 0.2 for example | 18:42 |
| ballball | is there any problem with me just coming in here talking about a software problem right away | 18:43 |
| cronolio | i mean watch -n 0.3 lsof :) | 18:51 |
| fsmithred | ballball, this is a support channel. Just ask your question and wait anywhere from a few seconds to a couple days. | 18:56 |
| ballball | ah, ok. | 18:57 |
| ballball | well, it is this same problem except I'm trying to correct for the bios being set to local time https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2770 | 18:58 |
| fsmithred | don't past a lot of lines here, or you might get auto-bounced | 18:58 |
| ballball | however, that thread didn't seem to solve it, but maybe there's something I didn't understan | 18:58 |
| ballball | d | 18:58 |
| fsmithred | isn't it easier to set windows to use utc? | 18:58 |
| ballball | the windows install, in this case, doesn't belong to me | 18:59 |
| mason | fsmithred: I don't think you can change the Windows conception of the hardware clock timezone. | 18:59 |
| mason | Hence the pain. | 18:59 |
| fsmithred | I've seen the instructions and might even have done it once. | 19:00 |
| fsmithred | pretty sure it's just a registry key | 19:00 |
| mason | Hrm. That's an improvement then, or maybe I just never knew about it. | 19:00 |
| fsmithred | just in the last few years | 19:00 |
| fsmithred | they keep adopting pieces of linux | 19:01 |
| mason | ballball: Looks like you want to change UTC to LOCAL in /etc/adjtime. | 19:01 |
| fsmithred | been a few years now that you can scroll up command history with up arrow | 19:01 |
| kreyren | cronolio, can you elaborate what are you suggesting ? O.o | 19:01 |
| ballball | I assume I can just comment out UTC? | 19:02 |
| ballball | and put LOCAL I mean | 19:02 |
| mason | ballball: Unsure if whatever processes it has a facility for comments. | 19:02 |
| mason | ballball: It's probably best to just change it. Copy it to adjtime.save if you want a reminder of what changed. | 19:03 |
| ballball | ah, ok | 19:03 |
| ballball | thank you | 19:03 |
| mason | Sure! | 19:03 |
| n4dir | fsmithred: "now" that you can arrow up history? Hasn't it always been like that? | 19:03 |
| fsmithred | always been like that in linux, but it's fairly recent in windows | 19:04 |
| n4dir | ah, Windows. No clue about that. | 19:04 |
| n4dir | i have heard scrolling up in TTY was just removed. Which would be weird (not command history) | 19:05 |
| fsmithred | yeah, in the old days, I think it was F4 key that put the last command onto the line again | 19:05 |
| n4dir | got me a PC with Windows, and as i had no internet went to the libraray for programs, ran into linux and used it from the very beginning. | 19:06 |
| fsmithred | yeah, you would be screwed if the output was bigger than the screen | 19:06 |
| fsmithred | lol | 19:06 |
| n4dir | i kinda can use it, but i hardly can say anything about it | 19:06 |
| ballball | I will reboot now and see if that fixed it | 19:07 |
| ballball | it doesn't appear to have fixed it, the system time appears to still be 4 hours behind | 19:12 |
| ballball | I saved the lines I had wanted to comment in /etc/adjtime.edit, I assumed that would not be a problem | 19:13 |
| emdete | i have problems with dpms timeout, i use `xset dpms 1 1 1` in my xlock script (i use i3lock) to switch off display entirely (this is mentioned in i3lock manpage). this worked fine for a long time but stopped working now. is something known about it? | 19:13 |
| cronolio | kreyren don't trust software/hardware , run upgrade process manually whenever you want ;) | 19:14 |
| kreyren | o.o | 19:14 |
| emdete | the problem is that the display isnt turned off after a second anymore | 19:14 |
| * kreyren is even more confused | 19:14 | |
| mason | emdete: xset dpms force off is what I'd use | 19:14 |
| cronolio | kreyren looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates#Using_cron_and_aptitude looks like no one cares about if upgrade process will not run cause lock | 19:16 |
| kreyren | true, but i wanted to reduce the system resource requirement assuming that apt checking itself takes more resources then checking the lock file | 19:17 |
| cronolio | once i get another story that i cant install something cause locked by "UnattendedUpgrades" | 19:19 |
| kreyren | o.o | 19:19 |
| ballball | it seems there's a boot command called noutc, so I'll try that | 19:20 |
| emdete | mason: i do too which switches off in that moment. if you touch the kbd it's back on. that's why i use the timeout to switch it off again after a sec | 19:20 |
| emdete | mason: and it seems other stuff reenables the X11 display as well, so a timeout is usefull | 19:21 |
| golinux | Hazuki | 19:23 |
| golinux | You could post about the LXQt themes in the dev1galaxy.org forum and/or make them available in our git.devuan.org | 19:25 |
| golinux | Some screenshots are always good to include | 19:25 |
| mason | emdete: I generally don't mind the keyboard waking things up. That said, I use xinput to disable mice when the screen sleeps. | 19:31 |
| mason | emdete: In my specific case, I use https://bpa.st/3ABQ since I tend to use xscreensaver. | 19:32 |
| mason | (This kind of thing will go up on the wiki once it exists.) | 19:32 |
| Hazuki | golinux: in order to make them available in Devuan's gitea, would I need to fork any repository? i see repos for the DarkPurpy and Cinnabar themes, but they're for gtk/openbox/xfwm4 themes. lxqt stores its themes in non-standard directories | 19:33 |
| fsmithred | Hazuki, those themes are based on clearlooks-phenix. You mentioned clearlooks. | 19:34 |
| fsmithred | non-standard dirs are where? | 19:35 |
| Hazuki | yes. i made a Clearlooks LXQt theme (this was actually just accepted into LXQt's git, wowww!) as well as DarkPurpy and Cinnabar variants they said they weren't going to pull | 19:35 |
| ballball | just an update, I was able to work around the problem by using MATE's time settings GUI to set the clock to 4 hours ahead. noutc didn't work, /etc/adjtime didn't work either | 19:35 |
| Hazuki | in /usr/share/lxwt/themes/ rather than /usr/share/themes, and ~/.local/share/lxqt/themes/ (IIRC) rather than ~/.themes/ | 19:35 |
| fsmithred | might make sense to keep them separate | 19:36 |
| fsmithred | the packages, I mean | 19:37 |
| fsmithred | you have a git repo for a complete package for lxqt? | 19:37 |
| Hazuki | just for the Clearlooks theme (and another I made called Leech, based on the best GTK2 dark theme ever~) | 19:37 |
| Hazuki | that is a direct fork of the official lxqt-themes repo | 19:38 |
| fsmithred | start with a personal project on git | 19:38 |
| fsmithred | brb phone | 19:38 |
| Hazuki | should I branch my master into something, say "devuan-branch," and just add the variants in there? | 19:38 |
| Hazuki | am still very very new to git | 19:38 |
| fsmithred | normal process is to clone the upstream repo and then make a separate branch for your work | 19:40 |
| fsmithred | that way we inherit the full history of the package | 19:41 |
| cronolio | git checkout -b "branch_name" | 19:41 |
| Hazuki | i have my repo locally. it doesn't contain the DarkPurpy and Cinnabar variants because it was merged as a pull request to LXQt's git. so I can go into my repo locally and git checkout -b "devuan" or so? | 19:44 |
| emdete | mason: cool idea, thank you :) | 19:45 |
| cronolio | git clone some_upastream.git; cd some_upastream; git checkout -b "my_new_feature_branch_name"; edit something; git add .; git commit -m "your comment"; git push origin dunno | 19:49 |
| cronolio | some first site https://www.dataschool.io/how-to-contribute-on-github/ :) | 19:55 |
| Hazuki | this is neat :) I see what looks like two versions of my repo now, and the branch i made at "devuan-themes" contains those two variants my Master branch doesn't | 19:56 |
| cronolio | git is about versions, yes :) | 19:57 |
| cronolio | git pull or git fetch to get latest commits | 19:58 |
| Hazuki | now, there doesn't seem to be any specific repo on devuan's git collection for lxqt themes. this makes sense, since that's LXQt's upstream... | 19:59 |
| golinux | Hazuki: There haven't been any custom LXQt themes yet. | 20:07 |
| golinux | Would be nice to have devuan themes for LXQt | 20:08 |
| Hazuki | :) | 20:08 |
| Hazuki | okay, so i'd just need to 1) join devuan's gitea and 2) start a repo on there with these things in them? ideally a blank one and then pull-request my own local devuan-themes branch into it? | 20:08 |
| fsmithred | pull from upstream and make your changes in a separate branch | 20:10 |
| Hazuki | oh, i did that when making that Clearlooks theme for LXQt's upstream already...i mean, how to submit these for consideration for Devuan? Upstream said they didn't want the Cinnabar and DP variants | 20:15 |
| fsmithred | pull from lxqt with the changes | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | clone that | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | then make a separate branch for new additions | 20:17 |
| Hazuki | yup, done | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | there's a maintainers guide. I'll get the link. | 20:18 |
| Hazuki | sorry, this is all totally new to me. i'd never used git at all prior to a few days ago and never developed with anyone else ever | 20:18 |
| fsmithred | np | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | well, np being new. Problem here is my search-fu is failing. | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers | 20:20 |
| Hazuki | this is so cool...i never thought i'd be able to contribute anything to a real-world project | 20:23 |
| Hazuki | okay, off to work thank you, everyone :) | 20:29 |
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