libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-10-07

gnarfacemason: i'm also not thrilled at the realization that after all these years it isn't even doing multi-threaded *file access*02:10
gnarfacei think ballball is still misconfigured, if he comes back tell him he should have just run ntpdate once after that change02:17
gnarfacehe seemed to think changing that setting would immediately fix the corrupted bios time, which it wouldn't.  it would just change the rules for how it is updated and polled going forward, so to actually fix the time inaccuracy you'd still have to update once02:20
masongnarface: Ah, I missed his coming back. Doh.02:22
gnarfacei think the explanation of the problem was too vaguely implied and went over his head02:23
gnarfaceand also, if his windows version wasn't too old, it would have been able to handle UTC02:27
gnarfaceit's just another one of those "secret registry keys"02:27
gnarfacebut i'm pretty sure you can change linux to local time instead with dpkg-reconfigure [something] with a high enough debconf priority02:28
gnarfaceshouldn't need manual file editing02:28
masonNot that I'm aware of, but if you find a way, I'd like to know.02:29
gnarfacemaybe i'm thinking of an expert mode installer choice, the visual memory would look the same02:30
fsmithredI think the question is: Is the hardware clock set to UTC?02:32
gnarfacewell, that is the question, but it is important windows and linux make the same assumptions after reboot but before you sync02:33
fsmithredI mean that's the question in the installer02:34
gnarfaceoh, i misunderstood.  yea, you're right, i think that is the question label, what i don't remember for sure is if you have to be in expert mode to see it or not02:35
gnarfacei almost never do non-expert-mode installs so that type of thing slips past me a lot02:35
fsmithredI do a lot of non-expert installs, and I think the question is still there02:35
rtn0hi all04:05
rtn0can anybody confirm whether or not Lennart had anything to do with ALSA?04:06
rtn0I'm not paranoid or anything. But I have half a mind to abandon ALSA and replace it with OSS, if ALSA is the slightest bit shady.04:06
rtn0unfortunately, I have no idea how to do that, and it will probably be a huge, time-consuming project. i might even have to distro hop to achieve it.04:07
rtn0and im still a semi-noob.04:07
tuxd3vrtn0, what do you mean?04:10
gnarfacertn0: you've already uninstalled pulseaudio and you're still experiencing misbehavior or unexpected behavior?04:15
masonrtn0: Lennart's project was PulseAudio.04:15
gnarfacertn0: OSS should already be in your default kernel, but most stuff doesn't use it anymore04:16
rennjsb16 mode under vmware does04:16
rennjsnd_pcm_oss04:16
gnarfacertn0: and since the version in the kernel is OSS4, and most the stuff in the wild that still uses OSS is OSS3 stuff, odds are you'll actually have better luck with it using the alsa-oss compat module04:16
fluffywolfalsa is good.04:16
rennjneed the /dev/dsp and /dev/dsp004:16
masonsndiod is picking up steam04:17
gnarfacerennj: the alsa-oss compat module provides those fine04:17
rennjnexstep and old solaris vm use soundblaster16 emulation04:17
Xenguyfluffywolf: damn you are so fluffy04:19
XenguyOops04:19
rennjKernel-level OSS emulation via the snd-pcm-oss and snd-mixer-oss and snd-seq-oss modules or The aoss script from the alsa-oss package.04:20
rennjbeen using the same modules with vmware for while now..no point in messing with what i know works04:20
rennjalsa+dmix was nice, now it pulseaudio, cause you know firefox,chrome start building against it04:21
rennjapulse is not a solution in the end04:21
masonrtn0: Chrome doesn't build against PulseAudio, does it? I don't see it here anyway. Might dynamically load it.04:24
masonrennj: *04:24
masonmistab04:24
masonAnd the way Debian builds it, Firefox is also good with ALSA, although I have to go to Chrome/Chromium for videoconferencing.04:24
gnarfacefirefox-esr in every release of Debian (and Devuan) still does not require pulseaudio.  that was only for about a week, and they rolled back that change with much less fanfare then they rolled it out initially04:25
rtn0"< mason> rtn0: Lennart's project was PulseAudio."   im aware.04:37
rtn0"< gnarface> rtn0: OSS should already be in your default kernel, but most stuff doesn't use it anymore"   do you mean "real" oss, or some compatibility layer on top of alsa?04:38
rtn0if it's possible to use "real" oss, i would like to.04:39
rtn0im on Debian 9 right now. but i will probably switch to either Gentoo or Devuan.04:40
gnarfacertn0: did you build the custom kernel or are you using the stock one?  i thought alsa and ossv4 were both in the stock one and it just loads alsa by default.  if i'm wrong though it's a simple kernel rebuild.  i can walk you through it.04:42
Xenguyrtn0: gnarface is yer friend : -)04:45
gnarfacertn0: if you know the name of the oss module you'd actually be using already, just look for it in /lib/modules/ like this:  find /lib/modules/ -iname '*pattern*'04:45
gnarface(where "pattern" is just a case-insensitive substring of the kernel module file name)04:45
gnarfacei really haven't had a problem with the alsa-oss compatibility layer in a LONG time though, and i'm not able to confirm with first-hand experience wither ossv4 is actually as good at reverse compatibility04:46
fluffywolfXenguy:  I'm extra-fluffy!  :P04:47
fluffywolfI have some code in alsa-lib (not much, just some bug fixes), and I can say from my experience that the alsa devs care very much about code efficiency, speed, portability, compatability, and every single thing that's the exact opposite of pulse.04:48
gnarfaceyes, it's true but they also don't have much money, where pulseaudio has corporate backing so they can dictate the story however they want04:50
gnarface(leading to a very common surprise reaction when pulsaudio fans find out alsa is a requirement)04:51
fluffywolfever notice how sound has no appreciable cpu usage, on any system, ever?  the alsa code is _tight_.  something that way too many projects have forgotten about these days.  heh.04:52
gnarfacewell... if you're measuring, you'll definitely notice World of Warcraft can drive up the cpu based on audio playback resources, but it seems to be a relatively extreme case, and it's still only by a couple %04:53
gnarfacewoops04:53
gnarface(the reverse highlighting was a typo, ignore that)04:54
masonrtn0: If you explore Gentoo, also maybe look at https://liguros.gitlab.io/04:54
gnarfacertn0: going afk momentarily, but i'll be back later if you need help.  the debian tools really make kernel rebuilds for small changes very easy.05:05
gnarfacertn0: if you just want to scan a currently-running stock kernel for what config flags were used, the configuration should be in /boot/config-`uname -r`05:07
rtn0gnarface: cool. but that sounds way above my level right now. i haven't compiled anything from source for quite some time. im rusty.05:19
mtnmanhelo05:27
Voidablazeri hope you are not associated with #artix or suckless people (as lennard poettering has implied linking a devuan mailing list)08:37
Voidablazerhere is a discussion i had with a nazi over at #artix08:37
Voidablazerhttps://dpaste.com/BNC2FWJL608:37
masonSuckless stuff is good. I use a decent amount of it.16:27
masonAh, it was just some trolling.16:28
rtn0hi all18:14
masonrtn0: o/18:20
rtn0mason:  \o18:22
jiefkmatrixnikelHi guys! Was there a doc somewhere mentionning network interfaces, when named en... should be renamed to eth0 ? (I'm trying to migrate a server that comes with Debian 9 (strech) to chimaera)22:26
jiefkmatrixnikelcan't remember where I read it...22:26
stiltrDevuan uses the old style interface names, so you'll need to make your config files match. I think that's what you're asking?22:46
jiefkmatrixnikelyes, this22:47
jiefkmatrixnikelI think I found the page mentionning that :22:47
jiefkmatrixnikel> In newer Debian releases you will be presented with the counter intuitive interface names, such as ens3 so for safety add lines for your current interface name as well as the intuitive device name.22:47
jiefkmatrixnikelhttps://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/network-configuration.html22:47
stiltrYeah, it looks like it's just having you put both styles in there to be safe.22:50
jiefkmatrixnikelyes, thanks, I did that and indeed, it worked :)22:55
stiltrGreat!23:07

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