libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-10-21

danuanonefang / in single user mode while remounted to ro00:00
danuanand after dd of original /dev/sda to /dev/sdb00:00
danuandrives are identical00:00
danuanlet see if it goes back to init 200:01
danuanshit , when going to mount  -remount,rw it revers back to whatever is in fstab for /00:02
danuanso i err nevermind , it did not00:02
danuanit seems to have worked, i might be mistaken , which is whye i will try this again , but so far , going single user , mount -o remount,ro , dd the system drive to another , then mount new drive over old / and remount to rw and init 2 seems to have worked00:04
danuancat /etc/mtab still shows old drive mounted ro , but new drive is overmounted rw00:05
danuanmy mistake , both were still mount rw , and was not able to umount original drive but second drive unmounted fine, so i guess original drive still was on top00:12
danuanso even though df shows new drive mounted as /  rw  , it is not , trying to touch anything give readonly filesystem00:16
danuanit seems there is switch_root for this procedure00:38
Xenguyfsmithred: Where's the best spot to chat about refracta, here or elsewhere?01:27
fsmithredhere or offtopic is ok01:28
XenguyCool...01:28
XenguyI'm assuming that it would take awhile to generate an ISO of a running system...01:29
XenguyI was thinking of trying to backup my existing system to an ISO on my new external drive (ED)...01:30
Xenguy(I did end up reformatting the ED to EXT3 filesystem, which I think works much better with rsync)01:30
fsmithredon my athlon X2 from 2005 it takes about 40 minutes. On the quad i7 it takes 10.01:31
XenguyThat sounds surprisingly fast to me, interesting...01:31
golinuxMost all my drives are ext4 and I rsync to backup01:32
XenguyThis laptop is my slowest system, and has an i3 processor, so perhaps a bit longer then.  I will time it, just out of interest.01:32
fsmithredrsync and mksquashfs run multi-threaded01:32
golinuxFirst backup takes a while. Updates go pretty fast01:32
fsmithredthe i7 has hyperthreading, so it acts like 8 cores01:32
XenguyThe fastest laptop I have is i5 I think01:33
fsmithredit won't take very long01:33
XenguyI'm thinking about getting another one this weekend, but it'll probably be an i5 also01:33
XenguyGood to hear, if I run into any questions, I'll hit you up if you're around.  I've never tried refracta before.01:33
fsmithredif you have a lot of data, you should exclude it and back it up a different way. Better to keep the iso smaller.01:34
XenguyI have run rsync on my data, so I'll see about excluding that part, if I can figure it out.01:34
fsmithredyou can go beyond 4GB, but that seems crazy.01:34
fsmithredjust add stuff to the excludes list. I believe you can even edit it from the gui program itself.01:35
XenguySounds good.  Might not happen tonight now, but I'd prefer to do that before I initiate the upgrade to beowulf.01:36
fsmithredyeah, Setup is in the first menu01:36
XenguyPerfect01:36
XenguyDid you code refracta yourself?01:37
fsmithredmostly myself.01:37
fsmithredthe basic commands were worked out by meandean01:37
fsmithredhe had someone put it in a python script to guify it01:38
fsmithredI converted it to bash and not long after was handed the whole project01:38
fsmithreddzz helped with the coding01:38
XenguyGood on you, that's pretty impressive.01:38
fsmithredin a few months, it'll be 10 years01:39
XenguyI had no idea it's been around for that long.  I had thought it was fairly recent issue.01:40
fsmithredand there used to be a forum and a community, so there was a lot of input from other people01:40
fsmithredsnapshot, installer, the live isos, refracta2usb (dzz's creation)01:40
fsmithredso I've had a good opportunity to learn about feature creep and spaghetti code.01:41
Xenguyhehe, I'll bet01:41
fsmithredbottom right of the first screen is a Help button. I forgot that was there.01:48
Xenguythanks01:51
* Xenguy goes to rewatch The Trial of the Chicago Seven...01:52
icemoddinghi ppl03:28
danuanthey will not respond until you ask a question, then everyone jumps in :)03:35
tuxd3vicemodding, hi03:43
icemoddingwzup tuxd3v03:43
onefangThis is a support channel, not a chat general channel.03:44
icemoddingok, sorry03:46
clortreading up on ccache, it says it is 'not for multiple file compilation?  what does that mean03:56
clorti wouldn't mind smarter/faster recompiles of scummvm and other larger projects03:56
clortbut i see how this isn't trivial to do03:56
gnarfaceclort: never used it, but the documentation says it's about "multiple source files in one go" which i would suspect is fairly common...05:09
gnarfacebut it also just says unsupported so that isn't always a guarantee it won't work05:09
clortccache -s shows me stuff, with a hit rate and stuff05:10
gnarfaceoh, so maybe it'll just ignore those parts of the build05:10
gnarfaceand only cache stuff it can05:10
gnarfacegot multiple machines handy?  you could try distcc instead05:11
clortyeah i have a bunch sitting here doing nothing. would be fun to have them working for me05:11
gnarfacei've heard that distcc can break parallel builds, but if you have enough machines then having distcc kinda obviates the need for parallel builds anyway05:12
clortbut over usb-networking, not wlan05:12
gnarfacethat's fine, usb is faster actually05:12
gnarfaceby wlan you mean wireless, right?05:12
clortyes05:12
clorti can get one d4 talking on usb0, but not two or more05:13
gnarfaceusb2 should be anywhere from 3 to 40 times faster05:13
gnarfacedepending on the type of wifi05:13
clorti think i'll waste less time faffing by cross compiling on the khadas vim305:26
clortah it's important to prepend the /usr/lib/ccache to your $PATH05:29
clortyup ccache is puppies and birthday cake, rebuild went from 15-16min to 39 seconds05:33
crashoverridemz`: what's up with your uplink?15:02
GyrosGeierhi15:45
GyrosGeieris anyone working on an updated kernel in beowulf-security?15:46
gnarfaceif there is one in debian that's not in devuan yet it's probably the build cluster that's working on it15:46
xinomiloit's already there : https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf-security/linux-image-amd64_4.19+105+deb10u7.html15:47
gnarfaceafaik those packages shouldn't be changed but some of the related packages might15:47
gnarfacethe mirrors might take some time to relay out15:47
GyrosGeierah okay15:47
GyrosGeierso that'll happen15:47
* GyrosGeier moves maintenance window for the docker box to the evening15:47
catch21hello. when I try to view the files in a different partition, all the files are executables, even PDFs. Meanwhile, the files on a flash drive are normal. The devices appear on the left hand side of Thunar. I click and they get mounted.15:52
catch21mount gives15:54
fsmithredcatch21, don't post a bunch of lines at once.15:55
fsmithreduse paste.debian.net15:55
catch21sorry15:56
gnarfacecatch21: (also, that's usually expected behavior if you're copying files from windows)15:56
catch21it's normal? can't I make it behave like the flash drive?15:57
fsmithrednp, you didn't do anything. Maybe your post started with / and did not show up. I was just warning you about the security bot that might kick you out.15:57
gnarfacecatch21: just use a different filesystem15:57
catch21so it goes with ntfs?15:57
catch21weird15:58
gnarfacecatch21: fat32 doesn't support permissions, it's weird and unsafe that the default is rwxr-xr-x, and you can override it with a mount option but you can't make it support permissions15:58
fsmithredyeah, I've seen windows make all kinds of stupid stuff executable15:58
gnarfacecatch21: ntfs is the same situation, but if it's a sd card or usb flash i would have assumed fat3215:58
gnarfacethere are windows drivers for some linux filesystems if you need to trade files between the two though15:59
gnarfacenot that i'd recommend it16:00
catch21it's all rwx for all, though for the ntfs partition16:00
catch21the usb drive has fmask=0022,dmask=002216:00
gnarfacethe filesystem has to support the mount options16:00
gnarfacei don't know what ntfs supports16:01
gnarfacethe man page should say16:01
catch21meanwhile, the ntfs partition has no mask thingie and the user_id=016:01
catch21is that the kernel?16:01
gnarfacethe filesystems should have their own man pages16:01
gnarfaceif not try the mount command for it16:02
catch21i even used su chmod and no changes16:02
catch21sudo i mean16:02
gnarfacehmmm, although... i see the mount.ntfs man page here says umask and dmask are supposed to be supported, at least for ntfs-3g16:03
gnarfacehmm, for general too16:03
gnarfaceodd16:04
gnarfacei can't say i use it much, but i recall that it was marked experimental in the kernel for a long time, and write capabilities were disabled by default... i'm not sure that's not still the case, did you check for that?16:04
gnarfaceif write protect was enabled at the kernel drier level, chmod wouldn't do anything16:07
gnarface*driver level16:08
catch21sorry that's over my head16:08
fsmithredI think ntfs-3g write was fixed a few years ago16:08
catch21just a regular user16:08
fsmithredthat's what I recall. I don't use it.16:09
gnarfacecatch21: you're using beowulf, right?16:09
catch21ascii16:09
gnarfacehmm, that's a much older kernel16:09
gnarfaceyou should try a beowulf live image16:09
gnarfacesee if it works, if so consider upgrading16:09
catch21i tried setting umask to 0022 with mount.ntfs-3g and there has been a change.16:18
gnarfaceas a mount option?16:18
gnarfacewell that's good16:18
gnarfacethat's something anyway16:18
catch21at least the write permissions16:19
catch21thanks for the tip16:19
catch21yes as mount option16:19
gnarfaceit would be best to just use a different filesystem really, but i know it's not always allowed16:19
catch21i have windows on another partition and I need to see my notes and stuff16:20
catch21from there16:20
wikanhi18:01
wikandid anyone try hurd kernel?18:01
n4dirway back. and not on devuan.18:02
wikani wonder what would happen if I install it18:03
n4diras i never heard anyone say it would be possible to simply install a hurd kernel on a stock debian, i doubt that would work18:04
wikanwell dunno. I see a package18:04
wikanbut I use some functionality like luks18:05
masonwikan: poke through things like https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/Hurd to get a notion of what's involved18:22
n4dirgetting it run command line only was do-able. Gui was the hard part, and i had to give up. iirc i did get a gui, but no mouse or keyboard.18:25
n4dirkFreeBSD was pretty easy compared with hurd. You hardly recognized it you weren't running Linux kernel18:26
n4dirbut as said: back then, ages ago, all that might well have changed.18:26
wikani always try to install as tiny os as it is possible18:28
wikanfor workspace I like it is about 110MB18:28
wikanmaybe it is time to replace a kernel :)18:29
wikanor... try freebsd on one machine18:29
wikani am a person for whom even kernel size may be important ;)18:30
* n4dir waits for the reasoning behind that approach ... 18:35
wikanhobby18:38
n4diras good a reason as any other :-)18:41
brocashelmis it just me, or is kernel 5.9 really screwy?19:15
brocashelm5.8 was working fine, but now newsboat takes forever to open an article (i use mpv as "browser")19:16
tuxd3vmesa 20.3 will be huge with their OpenCL Clover Driver now in OpenCL v1.220:00
tuxd3vit seems to ve already working well for nvidia cards..20:00
tuxd3vfor AMD cards still lacks Image Support..20:01

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