libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-11-04

phillipsjk256rwp: have you asked in #nouveau about it? though they would probably want you to test with the latest version.02:04
rwpphillipsjk256, I haven't asked there. I am on ceres so should be fairly current.02:43
systemdletefsmithred:   How much disk space will I need to install /iso/refracta10.1_xfce_amd64-20201004_1854.iso ?  Thanks03:04
fsmithredsystemdlete, what are you going to do with it? I would not give it less than 6GB, but I think it takes around 403:10
systemdleteOk, that's fine.  I just want to give it a shot.03:10
systemdletea "standard" 8gb hard drive should do...03:11
systemdlete(standard in vbox, that is)03:11
fsmithredI use 12 if I'm going to make a snap[shot03:11
systemdleteI can always add more disk later.03:11
systemdleteSo more or less, it follows the same pattern as devuan then, in terms of how much disk space is needed?03:12
fsmithredI found a couple of bugs in that iso and I'm pretty pissed off about it03:12
systemdleteuh oh03:12
systemdletemaybe I should wait then?03:12
fsmithredsomewhow, ff-esr changed the default search engine from ddg to goober03:12
fsmithredand removed the search box from the toolbar03:13
systemdleteyipes03:13
systemdletehave you seen the new tbird?03:13
systemdleteegads03:13
fsmithrednot yet03:13
systemdleteI mean, it is ok, but frankly... I wish they'd work on bugs first.03:13
systemdletesame thing for vbox03:13
systemdletewhat is "a snapshot"?03:14
systemdleteI know this for vbox03:15
fsmithredmake your own live-iso with refractasnapshot03:15
systemdleteoh.  No.03:15
systemdleteI don't think I'll be doing that.03:15
fsmithredcopies the installed system and rolls it up into isohybrid03:15
systemdleteI see.03:15
systemdleteIt sounds like 8 or so should be plenty for me.03:15
systemdleteBut as far as the bugs, other than ff, anything else to note?03:16
fsmithredI don't think so03:16
systemdletegood!03:16
fsmithredI think there was a kernel upgrade right after I made those03:16
systemdleteI'll just switch the search engine back to duckduckgo03:16
systemdleteI'll upgrade after the install, as I normally do03:17
systemdletethanks again...03:20
systemdletewhat does "high contrast" do exactly?  Is that to do with the display characteristics?  (low light, eg?)03:21
systemdleteor is that for low-vision users03:21
fsmithredyeah for vision-impaired03:22
fsmithredit's the gnome high-contrast theme03:22
systemdleteDo you have an option for us low-comprehension folks?03:22
fsmithredboot it and stand back03:22
systemdletegotcha03:22
fsmithredif you need passwords, user:user root:root03:23
systemdletethanks03:23
systemdleteSo I think I am (finally) getting this...03:27
systemdleteOne *must* have the additional 6gb or so of space if one wants to install to hard disk03:27
systemdleteI think that is the whole point to refracta, isn't it?03:27
fsmithredwhat?03:28
systemdleteI don't see any installer03:28
fsmithredrefractainstaller in a root terminal or Refracta Installer from the menu03:28
fsmithredSystem03:28
systemdleteSo I was guessing I have to make an iso image, like you were saying...03:28
systemdleteoh03:28
fsmithredno03:28
fsmithredyou downloaded an iso03:28
fsmithredyou can install it03:28
systemdleteaha03:28
systemdleteI see.03:28
fsmithredyou only need to make your own iso if you want to change things and make your own live-iso03:29
systemdleteI was expecting something more... well, kind of "obvious" for those of us who wouldn't usually go poking through menus03:29
fsmithredyeah, I know. Everyone else puts an icon on the desktop.03:29
DzhigitHello. After migrating from Debian Buster to Devuan Beowulf, and now to unstable, GNOME Software is not working and says No Application Data Found. apt and packagekit are still working and I can use pkcon. Running gnome-software through env LANG=C gnome-software shows the following errors: 02:16:04:0645 PK  failed to set proxy:03:30
DzhigitGDBus.Error:org.gtk.GDBus.UnmappedGError.Quark._pk_2dengine_2derror_2dquark.Code3: setting the proxy failed: failed to get the session02:16:04:0647 GsPluginPackageKit failed to set proxies: GDBus.Error:org.gtk.GDBus.UnmappedGError.Quark._pk_2dengine_2derror_2dquark.Code3: setting the proxy failed: failed to get the session03:30
systemdletenw.  I just didn't realize03:30
fsmithredhttps://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/live-gui03:30
systemdleteoh.  There's documentation.03:31
fsmithredpicture book03:31
systemdlete:)03:31
systemdletecartoon characters showing me how to do it?03:31
systemdletetalking dogs and cats, e.g.03:32
systemdletej/k, j/k03:32
fsmithredmonkeys03:32
systemdleteof course03:33
systemdleteDzhigit:  You upgraded to unstable and it has bugs -- really?  lol03:34
Dzhigitsystemdlete, no, the bug was there in Beowulf as well03:35
systemdleteat least it is consistent...03:36
DzhigitI upgraded to unstable after upgrading from buster to beowulf03:36
Dzhigitactually the only bug I have from unstable is brightness control not working on this laptop03:38
systemdleteyou live dangerously.  I would not ever try that, at least not expecting that it would be stable.03:38
fsmithreddid you follow the buster to beowulf migration guide?03:38
Dzhigityes03:38
fsmithredok, good. I don't remember what's in it, but I know there are some tricky spots.03:39
DzhigitI followed this https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/buster-to-beowulf03:39
fsmithredyeah03:39
systemdlete(closest time zone I could find was "pacific ocean" -- I'm not quite in the ocean, but give it a few more years...)03:45
fsmithredI think they're in order03:45
systemdletethere was no plain "Pacific" (like the other US time zones).  Just "Pacific Ocean"03:46
systemdleteI guess if you live on a houseboat near SF that would make sense03:47
golinuxHawaii03:48
systemdleteI selected write random data to disk drive and dd reports no space left on device.  Not sure what to do from here.  It just seems to be handing, but I see vbox is doing I/O on the disk.03:48
systemdletegolinux:  That is HST.03:49
rwpDzhigit, I don't know but all of the error message about the "session" makes me think it need cgmanager or something else installed that perhaps elogind is not faking up sufficiently that is not there for it.03:49
systemdletefsmithred:  I chose write random data AND encrypt /home.  Maybe that is a bad combo?03:49
fsmithredI don't remember what happens when you write random03:50
rwpDzhigit, If it were me I would try XFCE as an alternative that works pretty well for most people.03:50
fsmithredI haven't done that in eight or nine years03:50
fsmithredencryption I use a lot03:51
fsmithredand I'm sure I tested them together, but that was long ago03:52
rwpsystemdlete, I think the timezone name is not Pacific but US/Pacific.  Or America/Los_Angeles03:52
systemdleteI'll double check when the system reboots03:53
systemdleterwp:  I'm installing refracta, and picking fsmithred's brain while doing it03:53
rwpI could tell!  Good job! :-)03:53
systemdlete:p03:53
phillipsjk256systemdlete, sometimes utilities like that will report done before the physical write takes place. (Due to buffering.)03:53
systemdletewell, it is doing something, but it does not reveal what03:54
rwpI know that for a while there the US/* timezones went away.  I filed a bug and complained.  Which was if I recall simply closed, get a life, use one of the Americas/* timezones.03:54
systemdleteAh now it is doing the next step03:54
systemdlete(writing zeros)03:54
rwpBut then later I saw that they came back as US/* again.  So that's all I know.03:54
rwpsystemdlete, Are you doing this on bare metal or a VM?03:55
systemdleteVM03:55
systemdleteIt's just taking some time, that's all.03:55
systemdleteThe install IS proceeding03:55
fsmithred10 minute install if you don't do the random write03:56
rwpIn the future I probably would not write random data to a VM image.  Because if one is using qcow2 for example that will force it to be fully expanded to the maximum size.  All sparseness that we might want will have been removed.03:56
systemdleteI'm using fixed-size vbox disks03:57
fsmithreddd if=/dev/urandom of="$install_dev"03:58
fsmithredsame for home_dev03:58
fsmithredso yeah, it just runs until it gets to the end03:59
systemdleteI've gotten bitten by expanding disks.  One day, I ran out of physical space.  I find it easier to allocate the space up front.  It uses more physical space, but there are fewer surprises.03:59
systemdlete(I hate surprises.  I prefer known quantities.)04:00
Dzhigitrwp does Devuan accept bug reports for GNOME04:00
systemdleteMy approach uses space unnecessarily perhaps, but I don't have to worry I will kill all my VMs and maybe make the host hang all at once.04:01
rwpDzhigit, I know nothing. Personally I was surprised that it was documented to run.  Since I thought the detente was Devuan uses init freedom to avoid systemd and we let GNOME require it and we just don't use it.  But there it is saying it can be installed so I don't know anything.04:02
systemdleteAnd with all the disk space I have now, I don't see any reason to be thrifty on disk space.04:02
Dzhigitalright, I will see if it works in a fresh install04:03
rwpsystemdlete, Are you using LVM?  For VMs that I want high performance I/O I allocate an LV for the VM and then effectively it has it's own disk.04:03
Dzhigitso much for GNOME being the desktop environment of the GNU project when they support systemd instead of GNU's own Daemon Shepherd04:04
systemdleteyou mean on the host side?   Yes, I am doing that.  But ALL of my VMs are on one large lvm drive.04:04
rwpDzhigit, GNOME being a GNU Project thing was years and years ago.  They still use the name GNOME but there was a falling out and mostly they have gone their own way since years.04:04
systemdleteI mean, sure, I could do it that way too.  Allocate a LV for each VM.  It's not a bad approach either.04:04
rwpThere is more than one way to do it.04:05
rwpFor various victim testing situations I use qcow2 images to conserve disk space.  As long as I don't enlarge them all at the same time then I can overbook my disk space.  Which is only me conflicting with myself so not really a problem if I do.04:07
Dzhigiteven though GNU still lists GNOME as part of their project it seems like GNOME has a lot more independence04:08
systemdleteI run about half a dozen VMs all the time, plus I frequently run multiple test VMs as well.  Most of them are idle.04:09
rwpMe too.  I keep at least one VM of every version of every OS I work with so that I can compare them and test.04:11
systemdleteWhat is our actual exposure to this new slipstream vulnerability?   How likely is it that any system would be compromised successfully?04:11
clortwhat slipstream what systemdlete04:56
systemdleteIt's the buzz all over the internet I think... but maybe it is not as bad as reported?04:57
systemdleteidk04:57
clortdo i have to do anything04:58
systemdletethat's what I am wondering also.  I'm not sure if there is a mitigation available yet.04:59
systemdleteI blew away my root bashrc on refracta.  Is there a way to replace it.05:00
systemdlete(blame my fingers.  They don't always listen to what my brain tells them.)05:00
clortis there some quick summary what it is somewhere05:00
clortyou don't need anything in bashrc that you didn't want in there05:01
systemdletewell, my prompt is white, not red, now.05:01
systemdleteI just want to put it back, get a backup of it, and proceed.05:01
clortif you deleted it, it's deleted05:02
systemdleteIt came from *somewhere*, right?05:02
systemdletea package, or a copy from, say, /usr/share/base-files (but I tried copying it from there and it did not restore the red prompt)05:03
masonclort: https://github.com/samyk/slipstream05:03
clorthere is a red prompt for root05:04
clortexport PS1="\[\033[01;33m\]IMROOT! \[\033[01;31m\]\$PWD\[\033[01;33m\]# \[\e[0m\]"05:04
systemdletethanks mason. I had lost the page05:04
masonnp05:04
clortxterm should be able to beep to alsa on ^G05:52
systemdletefsmithred:  Does refracta use apt?  I tried to apt remove wicd, but it tells me it is not installed.  It's there.05:59
systemdleteand the /etc/network/interfaces file doesn't look like my network config.  It has no eth0 entry, whereas, I really do have a eth005:59
systemdleteSo, again... I'm lost.05:59
golinuxapt-get  I think06:04
unixbsdHello, how to install a printer HLL 2340 D on amd64?07:29
unixbsdhll2340dlpr-3.2.0-1.i386.deb  I have this for i386, but I need to port it to amd64, how to do so?    hll2340dlpr-3.2.0-1.i386.deb   hll2340dcupswrapper-3.2.0-1.i386.deb07:30
MontresorInstall those and libc6-i386.07:32
gnarfaceunixbsd: dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update07:58
gnarfaceunixbsd: then you should be able to use i386 packages too07:58
gnarfaceUnit193: i don't really know if that will still work or not, i think that is the old way07:59
Unit193gnarface: I have hll2340dcupswrapper:i386, hll2340dlpr:i386, and libc6-i386 installed, the printer works.08:01
laidback_01hey, I've installed beowulf for a friend.  I didn't use LVM, but did setup a root mirror with mdadm.  the mirrors are in good shape, data is fine.08:56
laidback_01but the machine has a boot issue giving me tons of these: WARNING: Device /dev/loop0 not initialized in udev database even after waiting 10000000 microseconds.08:56
laidback_01all about /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, /dev/md0, /dev/md1, etc.  they take several minutes each.  and when it's done with that error cycle, it will boot, but the mouse and keyboard need to be unplugged and reconnected to function.08:57
laidback_01so... I'm backing this sytem up, his data and all, and am about to rebuild it, but wanted to see if this is something that an lvm2 purge and reinstall should have fixed or not - it didn't .08:58
laidback_01I don't know any other way out of this just now...08:58
rrqmaybe add "loop" module to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and run "update-initramfs -u -k all"09:07
Jorillaidback_01: there was a post somewhere... Let me search for it...09:07
laidback_01okay. I'll take a look at adding loop.  something else that kind of strikes me funny - if I purge lvm2, now my network device, eth0, an intel device, will not show up.09:08
laidback_01do I need to remove evdev and switch to regular udev if I remove lvm2?09:09
Jorillaidback_01: maybe https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1867015#p186701509:11
laidback_01oh, what I mean:  I apt purge lvm2, then reboot.  that's when my network... which normally loads, now doesn't09:11
laidback_01okay, I'll try.  I can't stand lvm, so  I never use it.  aggravating to have it seem to be so heavily involved.09:12
laidback_01just about to try. backing up the virtual machines now before reboot.  much easier to backup data when using a rescue disk rather than a hobbled system ;)09:49
laidback_01nope, no-go.  I'm going to sleep. will rebuild as a fresh install later.  going to do everything i can to keep lvm out of this system.10:01
gnarfacelaidback_01: not sure what's going wrong but fyi this is why they tell people not to actually boot from the raid array.  is that a requirement for the setup?  i know what you're trying is possible but it's generally considered not worth it (not only due to the effort level, but due to the catastrophic lack of any recovery path for the install in this case if there were hardware failure)10:09
gnarfaceeven if you succeed, you'll eventually regret it over the long run if not the short run10:09
gnarfacethat's the industry best-practice advice on the matter10:10
gnarfacelaidback_01: also, i don't think it really requires LVM either but LVM might make it easier10:11
gnarface(LVM is something i avoid myself)10:11
laidback_01oh, I've never had issues with a mirror for root with just ext4 on it10:12
laidback_01and recovery is super easy - but then I don't use anything other than raid 110:12
gnarfacewell, raid 1 would be better than raid 0 for that10:12
gnarfaceas long as you know what you're doing, i consider my duty to warn you fulfilled10:13
laidback_01LVM is kind of a nice thing if you use KVM a lot - add a drive as needed to grow your device, and KVM requires you to use LVM if you need snapshots.10:13
laidback_01but, even so, I dislike LVM for the added abstraction layer mostly.10:13
laidback_01warning understood.  I'm using twin SSD drives in a simple mirror.  it works, and it's safe.10:14
suavedandyGuys?10:16
suavedandyIt seems Micro is not in the Debian repos.10:17
laidback_01what's Micro?10:17
laidback_01https://micro-editor.github.io/ <-- this?10:18
suavedandyYep.10:20
suavedandySeems like they removed it. Probably because it was buggy.10:20
suavedandyNo wonder why it was glitchy on Devuan. Is Devuan's repo behind Debian's?10:21
gnarfaceyes but usually not by more than a couple hours i think10:22
gnarfacehowever i'm not seeing micro-editor or micro-anything-that-looks-like-an-editor in any version of devuan ever10:22
gnarfaceoh10:22
suavedandyIt's called just micro.10:22
gnarfaceno i'm wrong10:22
gnarfaceit's there10:22
suavedandyIndeed.10:23
gnarfaceit is present in beowulf-backports10:23
suavedandyOhhhhhhhhhh.10:23
gnarfacehttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf-backports/micro_2.0.6-2~bpo10+1.html10:23
gnarfacefound it for you10:23
laidback_01really though, just go here https://github.com/zyedidia/micro/releases  and dpkg -i micro-2.0.8-amd64.deb10:23
gnarfacemy guess based on this evidence is that it probably just didn't make the buster freeze10:23
gnarfacedebian won't add any new programs to the release after it is marked stable10:24
gnarfacejust a policy10:24
suavedandyWait. If I add the backports to the repositories, I automatically get the backported versions of software when installing?10:24
laidback_01no10:24
gnarfaceif they have an old version that works fine and nobody has any complaints about the code quality they'll usually just let it ride, but if they have a version that doesn't build and the maintainer doesn't respond in time they just drop it10:25
laidback_01you have to reference the repo to use it10:25
suavedandyThen why did micro install?10:25
laidback_01huh, I'll have to look at this myself.  you used to need to reference the repo10:25
gnarfaceit shouldn't have but there are a number of things that can go wrong with dependencies in very normal conditions (more normal for backports because they're less thoroughly tested) that can cause extra packages to be included accidentally10:26
gnarfacei always recommend only installing specific packages from backports for that reason, and disabling it afterwards immediately10:26
gnarfaceand NEVER do a full upgrade from backports10:26
suavedandyLike, I didn't even try installing it from the backports repo deliberately.10:27
suavedandyI just "apt install -y micro"10:27
suavedandyNo "--buster-backports"10:27
gnarfacewell, you should know that this could be a symptom of a package dependency breakage caused by including 3rd party debs from non-devuan repos...10:27
gnarfacejust one of the other possible causes10:27
xinomilowhy not upgrade from backports? it's official repo...10:28
gnarfacethe command for just micro you'd probably want to use would be "apt-get -t beowulf-backports --no-install-recommends install micro"10:28
gnarfacetry that10:28
suavedandyMy system was perfectly clean from non-Devuan packages.10:28
gnarfacecould just be fucked up too man i dunno10:28
gnarfacebut i think if you "dist-upgrade" with backports enabled that might override the sanity checks...10:29
xinomilonope10:29
gnarfaceyou sure?10:29
xinomiloonly: apt dist-upgrade -t beowulf-backports10:29
xinomiloor if you set it in preferences10:29
gnarfacesuavedandy: i'm not as sure as him about this, double check the output^10:29
suavedandyOh, sorry, I meant "-t beowulf-backports"10:29
suavedandyNot "--buster-backports"10:30
suavedandyAnyway, I didn't type either of this.10:30
laidback_01yeah, usually you have to pick to intentionally use a backports repo, devuan/debian both use sane defaults, and pulling at will from a backports repo doesn't fall into that category.10:31
gnarfacesuavedandy: well i can't tell you what went wrong in the past nor do i have a good way to find out, but there should be a log in /var/log/apt/ so at least you can find out what day it happened on and maybe recall something10:31
suavedandyI didn't run dist-upgrade, I didn't try to install anything from backports, I have only Devuan's repos.10:31
laidback_01well, anyway, you have micro now, should be good.  comment out that backports repo to prevent more surprises.10:32
xinomilobeowulf-backports is devuan repo.10:32
xinomilomicro is only there, so apt install chose that.. what's the problem?10:33
suavedandyWait. I can't install Debian packages from third-party repos? Well this is unfortunate.10:33
gnarfaceyes, it is, but it comes with the same warnings that debian gives about their corresponding backports10:33
gnarfacesuavedandy: you can it just isn't recommended10:33
xinomiloyou can install anything you like.. backports is not 3rd party. it's official devuan repo.10:33
xinomilo3rd party repos are just not recommended10:34
xinomilousually..10:34
suavedandyI have a better solution.10:34
suavedandyBackports repo goes WHOOSHHHHHHHH.10:34
laidback_01Ah- this makes sense "<xinomilo> micro is only there, so apt install chose that.. what's the problem?"   Given a package that exists in both main and backports, it would choose the package in main.10:35
laidback_01unless you override the repo preference10:35
suavedandyMicro was only in backports tho.10:35
laidback_01read that whole sentence.10:35
laidback_01particulary what xinomilo said10:35
suavedandyYou think it's a normal behavior?10:36
laidback_01said another way: if a package exists only in a single repo, including backports, and you request the install of that package, it will install from the only repo found.10:37
laidback_01well, I dunno.  will have to read more about it.10:37
laidback_01but it sounds reasonable.10:37
suavedandyAlso, I added the -y flag.10:37
laidback_01and it's late.10:37
gnarfacei think it's a snafu10:37
gnarfaceit's normal behavior in the condition where something else had gone wrong previously, and this is their fix10:37
gnarfacea combination of policy barriers and technical bugs10:38
gnarfaceUbuntu would just ram the patch into the current version10:38
gnarface(after telling people to just blithely install a 3rd party build for several weeks prior)10:38
Unit193Technically Ubuntu would tell you to use the snap.10:39
gnarfacesomething about the previous version must have upset workflow or licensing or quality checks or the build or something10:39
gnarfaceand then the fix didn't come in time for the beowulf release10:39
gnarfacei'm sure debian developers have access to a logged reason... somewhere10:40
gnarfacesometimes it's just "maintainer couldn't be reached for comment"10:41
suavedandyYou think this problem is Devuan-specific?10:42
gnarfaceno10:42
gnarfaceit's not an altered package10:42
suavedandyVery weird indeed.10:43
suavedandyInstalled a backport without knowing, wow.10:44
suavedandyThis is something.10:44
gnarfacepackages.debian.org shows the same situation10:44
gnarfacehttps://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=micro&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all10:45
gnarfaceonly exists currently in backports, testing, and unstable10:45
suavedandyIf even Debian has some bugs then I fear of how broken Arch is.10:45
suavedandyOr Fedora.10:45
gnarfacewe're all here because we *know* how broken Arch and Fedora are :)  but it's offtopic, really.10:46
suavedandyActually, when I tested SUSE, xrandr could not find my display. This is dumb.10:47
gnarfaceas a transitional fix they may have simply had something else you had installed which depended on micro to refer to the backports version to avoid breaking existing upgrades.   i don't know for sure that wouldn't work or wouldn't be allowed by policy10:47
onefangI just tried it, on my Beuwolf system, with backports enabled, "apt installl micro" did indeed just install Micro, which only has a backports version.10:48
gnarfacegood to know10:48
suavedandyMaybe we should pass this to Debian devs?10:50
gnarfacei just assume it's expected behavior, but don't let me stop you from asking them.  just don't mention my name over there if you want any actual help.10:51
suavedandyDo Debian devs not like you?10:52
onefangNow that I have installed this Micro editor, what's so good about it that I should keep it?  B-)10:55
* gnarface has no idea10:58
suavedandyIt is less broken then the apps from AUR.10:59
suavedandyBut honestly, I've installed it because it's a little bit more advanced and minimalistic than Nano.10:59
suavedandyBut God is it buggy.11:00
suavedandyUnfortunately.11:00
suavedandyHave to learn Vim, I guess.11:00
gnarfaceyou could try mg11:01
onefang"less broken then the apps from AUR" sounds like a low bar then.  I'll stick with mcedit.  lol11:01
macondo123hi everybody, how do I chang the word "Debian" tos Devuan?  in the starting menu, i've seen it somewhere but i can't remember where...18:21
macondo123anybody?18:25
fsmithredyou can either edit /etc/default/grub or18:25
fsmithredetc/os-release ID=devuan18:26
fsmithredthen update-grub18:26
macondo123thank you very much, pal18:26
fsmithredif you are using uefi AND secure boot...18:26
fsmithredthen you can't do that.18:26
macondo123ok18:26
macondo123fsmithred, perfect! thanks...18:39
systemdletefsmithred:  On refracta, I tried to apt remove wicd, but it says it is not installed.  But the files belonging to the wicd package are present, at least in /etc/init.d19:55
systemdlete(sorry for double-post, wasn't sure if you saw it the first time)20:04
systemdleteoopsy.20:13
systemdletewrong package name20:13
laidback_01yep, full reinstall and restore fixes that goofy LVM issue.20:40
fsmithredwhat goofy lvm issue is that?20:41
laidback_01if you scrollback to about 00:55:12 you'll see the previous conversation.  if you don't have the scrollback - it's about WARNING: Device /dev/<MULTIPLE> not initialized in udev database even after20:44
laidback_01waiting 10000000 microseconds. Replace the <MULTIPLE> with sda sdb md0 md1 sdc loop0 etc... for about 10 minutes of repeating messages... every boot20:44
laidback_01and then being useless as a desktop until you disconnect/reconnect usb devices.  and the video resolution is wrong.20:45
laidback_01but I digress, a backup of the user dir, reinstall fixed this after all the various attempts at troubleshooting failed.20:45
fsmithredO20:46
fsmithredI'm curious what the reinstall did differently20:46
fsmithredI've gotten that message while doing stuff in chroot (grub-install and update-grub) and fixed it by bind-mounting /run/udev to the chroot20:48
laidback_01fsmithred, no idea.  I'm not even sure what update caused this to begin with21:23
laidback_01and yeah, in the chroot, this was all able to be dispensed with (during rescue attempts) - grub install worked fine to both drives, and update-grub worked without complaint also.  so it makes you think all is well, but upon reboot, LVM2 starts bellering.21:24
suavedandyfsmithred: Dude. Can I get your spin naked from XFCE and pre-installed desktop apps?22:26
fsmithredsometimes22:26
suavedandyDamn.22:26
fsmithredlet me see what I have22:26
suavedandyAnd I wanted an encrypted boot.22:27
fsmithredyeah, you can do that. Not separate /boot, just as part of the encrypted root22:27
fsmithredsuavedandy, there are some lighter builds in the experimental directory, I don't have any no-X isos right now22:29
fsmithredso that leaves you with having to remove what you don't want22:30
fsmithredin the live session, you could drop to console and remove xorg, xfce and whatever else goes with it. Then run the cli installer.22:30
suavedandyLighter?22:30
fsmithredyeah, the ones with 'test' in the name have openbox and lxpanel and not a lot of apps.22:31
fsmithredand also have nonfree firmware installed22:31
fsmithredsnapshot_chimaera is similar22:32
fsmithredthe nodbus build is also openbox22:33
fsmithredhow light do you want to go? You can do a debootstrap install from the live.22:34
fsmithredbut that's pure devuan and whatever you do with it22:34
suavedandyI just want a tiling WM and some CLI/keyboard-driven apps.22:40
suavedandyMouse bad.22:40
suavedandyClick don't want.22:40
suavedandyUse keybinds I will.22:41
suavedandyPreferably something with nice layouts like DWM or BSPWM. Or at least something in which I can place windows really really fast.22:43
suavedandyI mean, if I wanted to use my lame touchpad I would probably want KDE or Pantheon or something.22:44
fsmithredsuavedandy, I think there's probably a miyolinux blend that you'd like.23:08
suavedandyfsmithred: From all the tiling WMs there's only… i3.23:31
suavedandyBut… fine, I guess.23:31
suavedandyWill do.23:31
suavedandyIt's… based on Buster…23:32
suavedandyfsmithred: Do you know how complex NixOS is compared to Devuan?23:56
fsmithrednever heard of it23:56
crashoverridefsmithred: are you related to the hacksmith? :D23:56
fsmithrednope. Not my real name.23:57
laidback_01nixos uses systemd.... just fyi23:58
laidback_01or, it's a core dependency that is.23:58
laidback_01https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/2434623:59
fsmithredsuavedandy, why not start with the devuan minimal-live?23:59
crashoverridenixos is OLD23:59
crashoverridebut it's not the best distro, by far.23:59

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