| mason | Ooh, I was dating myself by thinking 3 is multi-user and 5 is X: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runlevel#Unix | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | suavedandy: debian uses runlevels much differently than redhat | 00:01 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: (default is 2 and mostly don't mess with the others) | 00:01 |
| mason | Somehow I stuck LSB in my head and it's nothing like Unix. | 00:01 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: though you'll see lots of stuff still using the same setting for 2-5 and it's fine if you do the same, but pretty much you're only ever gonna be in runlevel 2 | 00:01 |
| gnarface | suavedandy: if you want to get fancy there's plenty of room for customization but you gotta know what you're doing first | 00:02 |
| suavedandy | That's weird. | 00:03 |
| gnarface | i know | 00:03 |
| mason | suavedandy: Did you read the Wikipedia page? Pretty enlightening. | 00:04 |
| suavedandy | RedHat's runlevel structure seems more logical and… multilayer. | 00:04 |
| suavedandy | Like ogres. | 00:04 |
| gnarface | i can see the user cases, i've just never actually needed it | 00:04 |
| gnarface | use cases* | 00:05 |
| mason | suavedandy: OpenBSD doesn't use runlevels, they use securelevels. Different thing. | 00:05 |
| suavedandy | What's that? | 00:06 |
| mason | suavedandy: https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/kernel_secure_levels/ | 00:06 |
| mason | bbiab | 00:07 |
| suavedandy | Oh, I heard about this OS. Heard that its drivers are maximally abstract so it can boot even on a toaster. | 00:07 |
| suavedandy | NetBSD. | 00:08 |
| suavedandy | Didn't know NetBSD and OpenBSD have some common functionality tho. | 00:09 |
| suavedandy | Good news, everyone! | 00:11 |
| suavedandy | Awesome autostarts great. | 00:11 |
| suavedandy | And it gives me silky smooth 60 FPS. | 00:12 |
| suavedandy | This is an otherworldy experience. | 00:12 |
| suavedandy | Freaking 60 FPS. | 00:12 |
| gnarface | nice | 00:12 |
| suavedandy | That's insane! | 00:12 |
| gnarface | now that you have it all working, make a backup | 00:12 |
| suavedandy | It's… It's… I've never seen anyth | 00:12 |
| gnarface | before you hose it again :-p | 00:13 |
| suavedandy | Anything like that before. | 00:13 |
| suavedandy | Ah, sure. | 00:13 |
| suavedandy | After I'll set up Timeshift. | 00:13 |
| ShorTie | and don't update/upgrade it, lol. | 00:13 |
| suavedandy | Guys, guys. | 00:14 |
| gnarface | oh, this is a ceres install, isn't it? yea just chill on the updates now that it's working | 00:14 |
| gnarface | lol | 00:14 |
| suavedandy | I'm a long-time Windows user. | 00:14 |
| suavedandy | And Windows gave me 30 at max. | 00:14 |
| suavedandy | That's, like… | 00:14 |
| suavedandy | Wow. | 00:14 |
| ShorTie | thats like the 1st rule of linux, if it isn't broke, don't fix it | 00:15 |
| suavedandy | And the touchpad. It's so pleasant to use now. | 00:15 |
| gnarface | and now that you know how much effort it is to get all the defaults fine-tuned for a particular piece of hardware, you know where Microsoft spends all the money | 00:16 |
| suavedandy | Okay, I'll go have some sleep now. | 00:17 |
| suavedandy | gnarface: No, Beowulf. It's stable. | 00:19 |
| dzhigit | OpenBSD is a fork of NetBSD | 03:02 |
| clort | what is 'giving him 60fps' ?> | 03:37 |
| dzhigit | maybe some game | 03:41 |
| dzhigit | debian 13 is going to be called trixie | 03:48 |
| MinceR | silly rabbit, trixie is for kids | 03:52 |
| golinux | Please post off topic stuff on #devuan-offtopic | 04:09 |
| systemdlete | why won't "service networking stop" work sometimes, particularly if I have an additional "postup" command in the /etc/network/interfaces? If there some corresponding "postdown" I need to add somehow? | 09:01 |
| clort | 'service' ? | 09:03 |
| systemdlete | clort: "man service" | 09:03 |
| clort | new to me, thanks | 09:04 |
| systemdlete | clort: My approach is to use the tools as intended if I want full support for whatever it is I am doing. If I want to use, say, the ip(1) or ifup/ipdown commands, then I may have varying levels of support from the developers of the system I am using. I try to stick with the standard tools as much as possible. | 09:06 |
| clort | that's interesting thanks. i just run the /etc/init.d/* scripts directly | 09:06 |
| systemdlete | ("service" is analogous to what systemctl does on systemd-based init systems) | 09:06 |
| systemdlete | clort: You can do that also. | 09:07 |
| systemdlete | The service command is just a pretty front-end | 09:07 |
| * clort puts it back on the shelf and continues shopping | 09:07 | |
| systemdlete | There could always be something a "pretty front end" does that the barebones tools don't. And there are cases where they are not 100% interchangeable. In this case, using "service" vs /etc/init.d/whatever may not make a difference. | 09:08 |
| systemdlete | I'd say the main thing is to be consistent in approach or one can become vulnerable to some damage or another. | 09:09 |
| onefang | The reason I don't like using the service command is this - "The existence of a systemd unit of the same name as a script in /etc/init.d will cause the unit to take precedence over the init.d script." Devuan maybe systemd free, but there are little bits of systemd cruft left laying around, I don't wanna run them by accident. | 09:18 |
| xinomilo | does it matter? what would units execute without systemd installed? | 09:19 |
| xinomilo | always thought they were useless, even if existed in devuan.. (?) | 09:20 |
| onefang | The point is if there happens to be systemd unit, it wont run the /etc/init.d script like you want it to. | 09:21 |
| onefang | I say without actually testing it. lol | 09:21 |
| systemdlete | The issue is that the cruft needs to be excised completely... But that is more work than this team has bandwidth for | 09:25 |
| systemdlete | Maybe some day in the future we will be truly systemd-free | 09:25 |
| systemdlete | I should probably add that I figured out my problem: I had multiple IP addrs bound to the interface in question. I used "ip addr del... " to remove them. (I had previously changed the address) | 09:38 |
| Joril | Looking at /usr/sbin/service, it uses systemd facilities only if it finds /run/systemd/system | 09:39 |
| onefang | Yes, I saw that to, and that I already have /run/systemd, though no /run/systemd/system. | 09:41 |
| Joril | /run/systemd is used by elogind, I guess | 09:50 |
| clort | i also have some /run/systemd which looks offensive but i assume isn't doing bad things | 09:51 |
| clort | ah | 09:51 |
| clort | a lot of qt/qml seems to want elogind | 09:53 |
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