| Xenguy | Trip report: Upgraded from Ascii to Beowulf today via online upgrade... | 03:57 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | And it didn't explode? | 03:58 |
| Xenguy | I followed the instructions on this page: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/upgrade-to-beowulf | 03:58 |
| Xenguy | And I'm happy to report: it didn't explode! | 03:59 |
| Xenguy | I did get concerned when all the fonts changed, like almost everywhere... | 03:59 |
| Xenguy | And now everything was a serif font... | 03:59 |
| Xenguy | But I needed to reboot cos of the new kernel installed, and when it came back up, all the menu fonts looked normal again... | 04:00 |
| Xenguy | The only remaining issue is a couple versions of some software that is being 'held back'... | 04:00 |
| n4dir | after apt-get dist-upgrade still? | 04:01 |
| Xenguy | But it doesn't look like any significant problem, that issue | 04:01 |
| Xenguy | n4dir: yeah, I did repeat that one 3 times or so, just to shake things down, if you will | 04:01 |
| n4dir | any non-official repos? | 04:02 |
| Xenguy | I'll double-check tomorrow (I'm on another PC now) | 04:02 |
| n4dir | as in: kinda sounds weird. But what do i know | 04:02 |
| Xenguy | None, I actively avoid those, after painful experiences in the distant past | 04:02 |
| n4dir | yeah, just asking the obvious. | 04:02 |
| Xenguy | Well it's a pretty good outcome: everything went off without a hitch, just one software version issue, and largely irrelevant to my user experience, so I'm pretty happy | 04:03 |
| n4dir | yup, got your point i think. good. as in: glad for you | 04:03 |
| Xenguy | It's been awhile since I did an online upgrade, and I tend to enjoy it when it happens : -) | 04:04 |
| n4dir | in all those years i ran in that "held package" thing only a couple of times, even while using debian sid. Hence i don't really know that much about it. | 04:04 |
| n4dir | pinning might be involved. not sure if devuan has any per default, probably due to systemd | 04:05 |
| Xenguy | It's some kind of dependencies loop, but I'm sure it will shake down eventually somehow | 04:05 |
| n4dir | yeah, sure. | 04:05 |
| n4dir | don't wanna spoil your excitement or pride. | 04:06 |
| Xenguy | No fear of that | 04:06 |
| fsmithred | you might need to install with the version | 04:06 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred: What do you mean? | 04:06 |
| fsmithred | apt install <package>=<version> | 04:06 |
| Xenguy | Oh interesting | 04:06 |
| Xenguy | I've never tried that | 04:07 |
| fsmithred | what package? | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | I'll need to fetch that info off another machine | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | Back in a few minutes | 04:07 |
| n4dir | makes me want to go back to unstable, so at least learn a thing now and then. | 04:08 |
| n4dir | i for one sure find nothing appropriate in the /etc/apt directories or files | 04:09 |
| fsmithred | appropriate how? | 04:09 |
| n4dir | which might be the culprit for "held back" messages | 04:09 |
| n4dir | i thought there might be some systemd pinning or such. | 04:10 |
| fsmithred | the problem is often with package dependencies | 04:10 |
| fsmithred | no pinning needed now | 04:10 |
| n4dir | recommends to "no" might not result in such, i gues (i don't have it, just thinking) | 04:10 |
| n4dir | yeah, thought so after i didn't find it | 04:10 |
| fsmithred | I like to exclude recommends | 04:11 |
| n4dir | yeah. sure. I don't care. But that is me | 04:11 |
| n4dir | no recommends resulting in package held back doesn't make much sense to me. Just thinking | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | excluding recommends will often eliminate conflicts | 04:12 |
| n4dir | ha. | 04:12 |
| n4dir | i didn't run in any conflicts on devuan yet. But i don't install that much | 04:13 |
| fsmithred | on major upgrade is when you're likely to run into it | 04:13 |
| n4dir | ah. didn't do that yet. | 04:13 |
| n4dir | i am brutal. whatever complaints i remove without hesitating | 04:14 |
| Xenguy_ | fsmithred: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/485274f2 | 04:14 |
| fsmithred | n4dir, plunge! | 04:15 |
| n4dir | and same output for dist-upgrade you say? And did you try one of them alone? | 04:15 |
| n4dir | :-) | 04:15 |
| Xenguy_ | right, sec | 04:16 |
| fsmithred | Xenguy_, definitely tell it the version | 04:16 |
| n4dir | well, i better stay silent now, fsmithred sure knows it more detailed than i do | 04:16 |
| n4dir | sledgehammer ain't always a good idea :-) | 04:16 |
| Xenguy_ | n4dir: Same for: apt-get dist-upgrade | 04:17 |
| Xenguy_ | fsmithred: I don't know that software; is it consequential? To me it looks like something I might just ignore | 04:17 |
| fsmithred | libpolkit-shit | 04:18 |
| Xenguy_ | Can I just purge it? | 04:18 |
| fsmithred | do you care about user being able to shutdown/reboot, mount removable drives? | 04:18 |
| n4dir | aptitude why <pkg_name> is always useful. | 04:18 |
| fsmithred | or are you ok with doing all that manually as root? | 04:18 |
| Xenguy_ | fsmithred: Unfortunately I am spoiled in the 21st century, and expect that shit to happen automagically | 04:19 |
| fsmithred | apt install libpolkit-qt5-1-1=0.112.0-6 libpolkit-qt-1-1=0.112.0-6 | 04:20 |
| macondo123 | hi, i saw in the documentation where to change 'debian' for 'devuan' but i can't remember where to edit, anybody knows? | 04:20 |
| Xenguy_ | fsmithred: Trying that now, thanks so much | 04:20 |
| fsmithred | either /etc/default/grub or /etc/os-release | 04:20 |
| fsmithred | macondo123, ^^^ | 04:21 |
| macondo123 | ok, thanks guys! | 04:21 |
| fsmithred | ID=devuan | 04:21 |
| fsmithred | and run update-grub | 04:21 |
| n4dir | apt-cache show for libpolkit-qt and libpolkit-qt5 look exactly the same, at first glance. Are both needed? | 04:22 |
| Xenguy_ | fsmithred: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/93e7df8a | 04:23 |
| fsmithred | I have the -qt5 one because of falkon | 04:23 |
| n4dir | same here. | 04:23 |
| n4dir | lemme try to install the other version | 04:23 |
| fsmithred | yeah, got it! | 04:24 |
| fsmithred | install libpam-elogind | 04:24 |
| n4dir | nope, no errors | 04:24 |
| fsmithred | and probably elogind and libelogind0 | 04:24 |
| macondo123 | brb | 04:25 |
| clort | i wonder why systemdlete imagines some businesses operate with under 10% profit margins | 04:44 |
| clort | if they can dictate wages and prices | 04:44 |
| clort | hmm | 04:44 |
| clort | that's a real Big Think question isn't it | 04:44 |
| mason | It's a #devuan-offtopic question. | 04:45 |
| clort | s/why/how | 04:45 |
| Junicchi | >package steam has no installation candidate | 16:18 |
| Junicchi | but i remember i could install it | 16:18 |
| Junicchi | which repository i'm missing? | 16:18 |
| Junicchi | nonfree? | 16:18 |
| Junicchi | it's also activated | 16:19 |
| Junicchi | ahh, i forgot adding i386 architecture | 16:20 |
| Junicchi | nvm working now | 16:21 |
| xrogaan | huh | 18:41 |
| xrogaan | Junicchi: you'd need valve's repo | 18:41 |
| xrogaan | in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/steam.list: | 18:42 |
| xrogaan | deb [arch=amd64,i386] https://repo.steampowered.com/steam/ stable steam | 18:42 |
| xrogaan | deb-src [arch=amd64,i386] https://repo.steampowered.com/steam/ stable steam | 18:42 |
| xrogaan | Junicchi: in actuality, you want steam-launcher. | 18:43 |
| xrogaan | steam-launcher installs the basics, which allows an user to "launch" steam. However, that first user needs to be able to sudo in order to install all required libs on the host machine. | 18:44 |
| xrogaan | It is done that way in order to bypass the "hard" requirements from package managers. The steam launcher will ask the user to install whatever lib is available regardless of version, then steam itself will work out which ones it needs ("pining" libs). | 18:45 |
| xrogaan | That is, you can have steam use it's own embedded libraries or force it to use the host's libs. | 18:46 |
| mason | Junicchi: Don't believe it! You don't need Valve repositories. | 18:47 |
| mason | Junicchi: But I feel like you're already there. | 18:48 |
| xrogaan | The only thing valve's repo provides is the steam launcher. | 18:49 |
| mason | non-free and i386 need to be enabled, for the logs | 18:49 |
| mason | bbiab! | 18:51 |
| mason | And Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating it. | 18:51 |
| xrogaan | The debian steam package is outdated: https://packages.debian.org/buster/steam | 18:51 |
| xrogaan | Meaning that any up to date drivers for whatever hardware they support won't be available. | 18:51 |
| xrogaan | steam devices they call it | 18:53 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Is anyone else having a hard time getting anything off the repos? I've been trying to get my laptop back into a usable condition after a pretty prolonged disuse, but then today it stopped offering to let me use the desktop environment I installed, and my attempts to fix that have run afoul of an apparent (but unidentified) broken dependency. Any attempts to fix THAT problem have run afoul of the fact that when I run any variant | 19:15 |
| PlotVitalNPC | on apt-get update or most any other command that interacts with the repos, I get the error that apt can't find them. | 19:15 |
| DPA | PlotVitalNPC: What do you have in your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ? | 19:19 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Well, /etc/apc/sources/list is the base default except that I've tacked on non-free and contrib | 19:22 |
| PlotVitalNPC | And I'm not entirely sure how to go about checking the contents of the directory, on account of being a pretty severe amateur at navigating the deep, dark corners of a gnu/linux machine | 19:23 |
| DPA | You can list the directory contents with ls, and you can check the contents of a file with less. | 19:26 |
| DPA | What errors do you get with "apt-get update"? | 19:26 |
| PlotVitalNPC | 'temporary failure resolving deb.devuan.org' | 19:30 |
| PlotVitalNPC | now that I think about it | 19:31 |
| PlotVitalNPC | This might just be my wifi settings only being saved in the desktop environment that isn't working | 19:31 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Since when I was switching over from XFCE (not what I told the devuan installer to add) to Mate (what I did tell it to add), I noticed that the settings didn't seem to carry over between them | 19:32 |
| PlotVitalNPC | meaning that the thing isn't connecting to my network to begin with, and thus can't reach the repos | 19:32 |
| PlotVitalNPC | How would I go about fixing that issue? | 19:33 |
| DPA | Depends on if it's using wicd, network manager, or something else. Which of the commands wicd-client, wicd-curses, and nmtui do you have? | 19:35 |
| PlotVitalNPC | apparently none of them | 19:36 |
| PlotVitalNPC | unless I need to launch them from a particular location | 19:36 |
| DPA | What about wpa_cli ? | 19:37 |
| DPA | Or iw ? | 19:37 |
| PlotVitalNPC | neither of those is doing anything | 19:38 |
| PlotVitalNPC | How the hell does a desktop environment breaking also kill the wireless networking management software... | 19:39 |
| clort | because the wireless mgmt is a DE plugin/applet | 19:40 |
| clort | you can also get a console based wireless mgmt | 19:40 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Shame I don't have a spare ethernet to grab anywhere around here | 19:41 |
| clort | i think ceni can assist with the wireless, not sure | 19:42 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Is ceni a program or a person? | 19:42 |
| DPA | Usually it shouldn't. If there is wicd, it should be started by /etc/init.d/wicd, for network manager, it's /etc/init.d/network-manager. | 19:44 |
| DPA | The config should usually be global, even if configured in the de. | 19:44 |
| clort | program | 19:44 |
| clort | *nix is administered via the console. some people make little helpful gui programs but they are bonbons | 19:45 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Okay, so /etc/init.d/wicd does exist | 19:46 |
| PlotVitalNPC | but neither of the WICD related commands seem to | 19:47 |
| DPA | Is it started? "/etc/init.d/wicd status" Or can it be started? "/etc/init.d/wicd start" ? | 19:47 |
| PlotVitalNPC | entering either of those doesn't seem to do anything visible | 19:48 |
| DPA | That's odd... | 19:49 |
| DPA | You do have iw? Then you could try to use that to connect to wlan: http://ict.siit.tu.ac.th/help/iw | 19:52 |
| PlotVitalNPC | when I tried iw as a command, it did nothing | 19:53 |
| PlotVitalNPC | or rather, it wasn't found | 19:53 |
| golinux | Are you using deb.devuan.org in your sources.list? | 19:55 |
| golinux | Please have a look at https://beta.devuan.org/os/packages | 19:55 |
| golinux | Ha! https://devuan.org/os/packages | 19:56 |
| PlotVitalNPC | I'm starting to feel like this is the sort of situation where I'm just glad there's nothing of value to be lost on this machine right now and run the devuan web installer again in the hopes that it doesn't spontaneously break in its next life. | 19:57 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Since the sum total of the changes made from the base installation before this error hit was switching to mate, adding flatpak, adding the flatpak version of firefox, and syncing it to my desktop firefox so the laptop can serve as an interim machine if my desktop goes down | 19:59 |
| mason | xrogaan: Odd. Once you bootstrap I thought they crawled forward at their own pace. I'm running the local version on new hardware and it's unproblematic. | 20:06 |
| xrogaan | I don't know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 20:10 |
| mason | Same. | 20:10 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Though for the time being, I think I'll just wait for an opportunity to grab an ethernet so I can reinstall WICD, which I just noticed through synaptic actually got uninstalled somehow | 20:16 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Starting to wonder if it was somehow listed as a now-unnecessary dependency of XFCE or something ridiculous like that | 20:17 |
| xrogaan | PlotVitalNPC: IME wifi is garbage. | 20:17 |
| xrogaan | if you have an ethernet wire, you could plug it in and get a network temporarily working that way. | 20:18 |
| xrogaan | That's how I resolved my wifi problems way back when I used wifi. | 20:19 |
| PlotVitalNPC | Unfortunately there's no currently unused ethernet cable here, though I can probably order one since I'm pretty sure I've got extra ports on my modem/router/whatever the heck the term is these days | 20:19 |
| xrogaan | My problem was: wifi doesn't work, internet unreachable -> because the driver shipped is faulty -> I need a newer version -> from the internet -> internet unreachable, wifi doesn't work | 20:20 |
| clort | wifi = Woman's Interface For Internet | 20:43 |
| clort | (my gf hated cables) | 20:43 |
| golinux | (and nobody cares) | 20:44 |
| MinceR | lol | 20:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | lol I'll remember that one | 21:56 |
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