libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-12-05

rrqanyone with experience of nilfs2 ?00:00
fsmithrednew lightdm seems to be working ok here. flrn_ I'm not getting your problem.00:02
fsmithredI can switch between tty1 and tty7 no problem00:02
miskatonicdoesn't lightdm depend on systend?00:03
fsmithredno00:04
fsmithredand this is a forked version, anyway00:04
fsmithredto fix some bugs00:04
fsmithredok, in chimaera with a slightly later devuanized version, I'm switching between tty1 and tty800:04
fsmithredmiskatonic, lightdm in debian (sid) depends on libpam-systemd or libpam-elogind00:06
fsmithredsame for our forked version00:07
flrn_after the intermezzo with tty7, switching between 1 and 8 works fine.00:08
flrn_the initial tty is 7,00:08
flrn_after switching to a lower tty, 7 is locked (with the devuan login screen, screensaver is not active)00:10
flrn_i can login, but on tty8 there is a mirrored xsession, unlocked00:11
flrn_unlocked, before I login to tty700:12
flrn_lightdm.log shows only debug level info: "Activating VT 7", "Activating VT 8", "Releasing VT 7"00:14
flrn_it seems, after the second login, lightdm starts another xsession on the next free tty00:17
flrn_but why does lightdm interact at all on tty switching?00:19
fsmithredthat sounds weird, and I don't have any idea of what's going on00:20
flrn_yes, the weird thing is, that the loginscreen pops up when returning to an active, unlocked Xsession00:22
flrn_from a console00:22
flrn_the login script the just fires up the next xserver on tty8, linked to the same ressources as the one on tty700:25
flrn_the xserver on tty7 gets shut down (apparently) after further console switching.00:27
fsmithredI used to get something like that years go.00:27
fsmithredgo/ago00:27
fsmithreddrop to console and return to tty7, drop to console and then had to go to tty8, and next time to tty900:28
fsmithredcome to think of it, that might even have been with xfree00:29
flrn_after login in again00:29
flrn_tty8, with big lock symbol: "this session is locked - you'll be redirected to the unlock dialog automatically in a few seconds"00:34
flrn_WTH?00:34
flrn_not even a redirection.00:35
flrn_restart lightdm to start over.00:37
fsmithredunlock dialog?00:38
fsmithredwouldn't that be a login screen?00:38
flrn_I just started over. tty7 login screen - no tty800:39
fsmithredyou can reproduce the behavior?00:39
flrn_after login to tty7 - tty8 shows mirrored situation of tty700:39
flrn_yes, stable00:39
fsmithredmaybe lxqt-power-manager is doing something?00:40
* Xenguy contemplates trying another Ascii->Beowulf upgrade this evening...00:41
flrn_oh, I have not been able to reproduce the black, stylish "screen locked / redirect" screen.00:51
flrn_fsmithred: it seems to be lightdm, as returning to 1.26.0-4 fixes the issue.01:00
fsmithredlightdm in your configuration. Not in mine.01:01
fsmithredxfce here01:01
user___I've upgraded firefox these days using the beowulf apt upgrade mechanism. What should I see in firefox: Help: About: for version?09:53
user___I see 78.5.0esr09:54
user___The actual problem I see is, on startup ff connects to 10 (!) servers and does something with them. Most of them are google related. I do not have a google registered account or sync or anything like that.09:55
user___What are these things? How does one turn them off? They also seem to delay startup significantly.09:55
user___https://termbin.com/bm2zz looks like this09:56
user___what are these things? search engine updates? I have that off, auto search engine updates. Extension updates is unlikely, I do not have that many extensions.09:56
user___Do you also see such unexplained activity on browser startup on devuan?09:57
xrogaan78 is the current ESR09:57
user___aptitude etc say I have 78.5.0esr-1~deb10u109:58
xrogaanyes09:58
user___so do you also see such activity on startup?09:58
xrogaanit's WAD09:59
user___NMA09:59
xrogaanDNS, update local database for the integrated blockers, other stuff related to mozilla10:00
user___The integrated blockers are all off, adblock extension updates it's db from elsewhere.10:03
user___Note that a lot of the ip's in the list are Google's.10:03
user___I'll set another default search engine and try a restart of the browser. See if then it also visits the mothership.10:04
user___How much funding does firefox get from Google, again?...10:04
xrogaanwell, this isn't mozilla's support channel.10:05
xrogaanYou might want to get into contact with mozilla people if you have concerns.10:05
user___no, but it is devuan's, whose purported firefox-from-debian package should be "cleaned" - at least I was told so by others here.10:05
xrogaanDevuan's mission is to provide a systemd free alternative to debian, nothing more.10:06
clortwell put10:06
user___After changing default search engine and restart I get the same thing, lots of googleplex addresses.10:07
user___In what respect, exactly, does the debian .deb suplied firefox-esr differ from the upstream firefox.com installer? On devuan specifically, or in general on debian.10:07
user___about:config google brings up oodles of stuff10:09
user___Later I'll start ff with network completely down and see how it goes10:16
clortthere are issues with firefox configuration and privacy.10:17
clortsome users prefer Pale Moon browser, or Brave user___10:17
user___they are not issues, they are elephants. I could almost understand it calling home to firefox.com . 7 out of 10 ip's are google's.10:18
xrogaandebian disable some stuff10:18
user___I mean, wtf, let's use Chrome instead, it may have *fewer*10:18
xrogaancheck /etc/firefox-esr/firefox-esr.js10:18
user___xrogaan: no hint of that in the README supplied with the .deb ff10:19
clortif you oh thanks xrogaan10:19
user___thanks10:19
xrogaannothing much really10:19
clortyes.  i'd like to prevent browser js reporting my screen resolution and bit depth to the remote site10:20
clorthaven't found where to patch that out yet10:20
clortrunning in a uniquely sized xephyr x session will give me a unique screensize and ID due to this design flaw10:21
xrogaan> https://sources.debian.org/src/firefox-esr/78.5.0esr-1/debian/patches/10:21
user___Thanks. I don't see anything special related to my problem.10:30
clorti'll try to confirm this user___10:31
user___Another: on xfce wm ff has the wrong ideas about screen size, off by 70-80%. Is this a known problem? The symptom is, at 0 zoom level (1:1) which is default, pages do not render entirely in the browser window, edges are clipped. Zoom 0.8 or so fixes the size.10:31
user___I assume xfce reports the wrong dpi to the ff. Has anyone seen this?10:31
clortwhat's a good way to check what servers firefox is connecting to10:31
user___netstat -tuan10:31
clortcan i limit it to the firefox process10:32
user___not easily.10:32
user___there's also fuser and lsof but it gets more complex.10:33
clortoh, this works10:33
clort netstat -pant |grep firefox10:33
user___ok, good for you10:33
clortand -c for continuous10:33
xrogaanlsof10:33
user___note that misses DNS10:33
xrogaanlsof -p $(pgrep firefox) | grep IPv (or something)10:36
clorti can confirm, on start without loading anything, firefox opens connections to  34.107.221.82 and other google servers10:37
xrogaanyeah, geoip is a google service10:37
clortit also conacts 44.241.230.182 amazon without me opening a page10:38
xrogaannevermind my lsof, it's bogus10:39
clorthow can i prevent this10:39
xrogaanyou can't10:42
xrogaanhttps://privacytools.io/browsers/10:44
clortpale moon doesn't do these shenanigans10:47
xrogaan`lsof -p $(pgrep -d, -f firefox-esr) | grep IPv` list all active connections10:47
xrogaanor should10:47
clortnice copied to notes10:48
xrogaanI'd recommend reading the manpage10:50
clortok after a minute or two idle, palemoon started opening connections10:50
clorti've read the lsof manpage10:50
clorti don't remember it10:50
clortsome of us don't have good memory10:51
clortif i could remember what i read, I would be a completely different being10:52
user___Just for laughs, installed vivaldi .deb from vivaldi.com - after disabling all google related things in menus, still connects to google (one thread) and opens 2 pcs mDNS udp server sockets on the machine it is run on.11:12
user___Oh and they are open on the multicast ip range not on the normal ip11:12
user___224.0.0.251 etc11:12
user___relevant: https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/13809311:14
user___So at least one can try to firewall it out.11:14
xrogaanif you block ipv4 for chromium, it'll fail to load regular websites but still connects to google through ipv6 (if available)11:43
user___right.11:44
user___I wonder how much effort it takes to make ff tor trained.11:44
user___Probably a lot. And every time there's a new release out there'll be a busy period neutering it for tor compliance.11:44
user___I do not normally use tor but I am interested in the technical aspects.11:45
user___Sort of punny that one needs a properly set up openwrt box as firewall in front of any "secure" modern browser. Just saying.11:46
* enyc meows11:51
onefangIs that a support meow, or an off topic meow?  B-)11:55
user___a meow is a polite roar11:56
user___Is there an android emulator able to run APKs somewhere in beowulf?15:28
clortthere's anbox15:29
user___anbox requires kvm right?15:38
clorti don't know it15:39
user___it's not so simple, requires a lot of post install work https://superuser.com/questions/1209814/how-to-install-anbox-on-a-pure-debian-system -- but eventually it should work.15:46
clortthanks for the link15:49
clortif you have some non-malware apk to test with, maybe one that even does something useful, let us know how it goes user___15:50
user___I won't spend time on it now, this system has no room for that. Old machine. Some day.15:51
user___Vivaldi's Chrome plays nice with a lot of web assembler I just tried out online vs firefox which sometimes displays a jumbled screen. Since Vivaldi is not open source, I assume there is no hope for it to be spliced into a debian package stream, right? I mean, they provide a .deb, which I installed, but it's not "reachable" with the usual package managers?17:05
user___?18:08
* enyc meows18:49
* MinceR meows18:57
user___ubuntu 20 would be compatible with what debian version? Don't know where to look19:19
enycuser___: ubuntu 20.04 LTS is newer than debian buster 10 / Devuan Beowulf19:20
user___ok19:21
enycuser___: ubuntu 20.10 is newer again but not lts19:21
golinuxIt would be our chimaera.  No there are no isos yet.19:21
enycuser___: debian *usually* comes about around half-way between ubuntu-LTS releases, seemingly19:21
fsmithredcheck linux and libc6 versions at distowatch19:23
enycuser___: also depends what you MEAN by ''compatible''19:24
user___"will run a random .deb meant for 20.10" - answer is no19:28
enycuser___: sometimes a tool "alien" can help19:28
systemdleteGenerating grub configuration file ...19:29
enycuser___: you can proabbly/often install an ubuntu chroot atop devuan, and not be running systemd init....19:29
enycuser___: if you have the deb src package it can be not too troublesome to dpkg-buildpackage the package on debian/devuan19:30
systemdlete(I do have lvm2, but there is no "pv1" on my system)19:30
systemdletewtf... missed a post here..19:30
systemdletethe error is "Generating grub configuration file ...19:30
systemdleteoh... it's the leading slash19:31
systemdletelet me paste this...19:31
systemdletehttp://paste.debian.net/1175754/19:33
systemdleteI AM using lvm, but I don't have any physical volume named "pv1" so I am not sure if this is going to essentially destroy my system upon reboot.  I am concerned because I do use encryption, and I don't know if this might be an issue during boot (it asks for crypt pass phrase)19:35
user___enyc: do not have the src. It is a nonfree package from sourceforge. I installed the win64 version under wine on beowulf, runs.19:36
user___I am wrong, it is GPL2 https://sourceforge.net/projects/picsim/19:36
user___note that thing sims various mcu boards and bare mcu's not just pics, the name is a misnomer19:37
enycuser___: I can understand developmental software only being tested on latest, or so19:40
dzhigitlibgnome-desktop-3-dev has a dependency on libsystemd-dev instead of libelogind-dev20:04
clortanybody feel like making a devuan image for the khadas vim3?  (Aarch64)20:05
systemdleteI was able to reboot, but that is a frightening message.20:06
* user___ idly notes firefox when not logged into google provides by default "safe" search results, i.e. you're missing out. Switch to duckduck...20:38
* enyc OooOooOOoo debian 10.7 released21:48
enyc5.9 kernel backported21:48
* enyc see how this filters into devuan21:48
* user___ expects mayhem and systemd dependent led front panel lights21:48
tuxd3venyc, the next LTS is 5.10.x will be out this month21:51
enyctuxd3v: hrrm, in kernel-land or debian-land ?21:54
tuxd3vI don't know about the next next LTS but maybe the scheme will change21:54
enycscheme change? howso?21:54
tuxd3vthe linux kernel decided that 5.10.x is the next LTS21:54
tuxd3vpeople were thinking that 5.9.x would be the next LTS due to the previous scheme used, but scheme maybe changed..21:55
enyctuxd3v: what was the scheme?21:56
tuxd3venyc, well I believe Greg Kroah-Hartman what the one who took the decision21:56
tuxd3vpreviously you had a LTS at each 5 releases21:56
tuxd3vso current LTS is 5.4, next would be 5.921:57
enyctuxd3v: i see21:57
tuxd3vbut he decided next will be 5.1021:57
enycI recall reading the story about why  2.6.32  became LTS/used in so many distros at once21:57
tuxd3vso maybe the scheme will change to 6 releases between LTS, but I don't know..21:58
tuxd3venyc, you it were yet in the time were kernels had a x.y.z versioning :)21:59
enyctuxd3v: i started with slackware 7 and k 2.2.1322:02
gnarfaceprobably time for someone to make some safety forks22:02
gnarfacei recommend backing up some of those older kernels22:03
enycgnarface: what do you mean?22:03
gnarface*these older kernels (i'm more referring to the recent 4.x and 5.x builds)22:03
gnarfaceactually i request that all of you can, do22:03
gnarfaceone day i may ask you for that backup22:04
gnarfaceget the source too22:04
gnarface(obviously)22:04
gnarfaceenyc: maybe i'm just an old man but i got a cold chill when i heard the first linux releases without linus were coming out22:04
golinuxgnarface: Yes, the ship is sinking . . .22:07
golinuxtelmich: Nice to have you hanging around here22:07
clortwe could really use a new kernel for jetson nano.  the 4.9.140 still has the horrible dirty buffers problem when doing large block file copies22:11
gnarfacethat one you might have to build yourself22:12
gnarfaceunless you're gonna donate a jetson nano to the dev team22:13
tuxd3vclort, uboot has support for the motherboard of jetson nano 'p3450-0000_defconfig'22:39
tuxd3v'p3450-0000_defconfig'  is the carrier board for the tetson nano module :)22:40
tuxd3vlinux mainline also has a dts file for it :)22:42
tuxd3v'tegra210-p3450-0000.dts'22:42
tuxd3vI don't know if the Graphics driver comes in a separated package, or if comes embeded inside the l4t nvidia linux..22:43
tuxd3vit needs to have a userspace driver too, for sure there should exist, a nvidia installation package for the graphics driver22:44
tuxd3verr. tetson -> jetson :D22:44
tuxd3vits freezing here, even with active thermal equipment its not soft :)22:45
tuxd3vgnarface is right, without a board is very dificult to do things.. if it was very trivial, and we knew 100% of support were already in mainline projects, we could just compile them but there seems to be always gotchas here and there, so we need to test :(22:55
XenguyI should unmount a USB drive before I dd an ISO to it, right?22:57
tuxd3vright22:57
tuxd3v:)22:57
XenguyThanks, I must write that down, as for some reason I can never remember22:57
tuxd3vthe nice thing of devuan Chanel's is that you find somewhere. sooner or later. someone that knows about something.. :)22:59
tuxd3vyou should unmount, because that garanteed that nothing is writing to that partition or disk, or have some locks in some files..23:00
Xenguy2 heads are better than 1, I've heard : -)23:00
tuxd3vcorrect :)23:00
XenguyActually I find that about IRC in general these days...23:00
XenguyAt least on the tech IRC channels, everyone seems to have left IRC except the smartest tech folk...23:01
enycXenguy: also be very careful with dd =)23:01
enycXenguy: can easily overwrite/destroy wrong device!23:01
XenguyWhich is great really, it's like the reverse of Usenet's "eternal September"  8 -)23:01
tuxd3vIRC is still the best place for support by far23:02
enycnot uncommon to see matrix used, bridged to IRC23:02
Xenguyenyc: For sure, caution is your friend when messing with partitions, hah23:02
tuxd3vsee the advice of enyc above :)23:02
XenguyI'm keeping one eye on Matrix23:03
XenguyHaven't dipped my toe in yet though23:03
enycXenguy: no me neither, have "Signal" working....23:04
XenguyThat's a good one too I think23:05
enycXenguy: Foss but central directory and USA-ownership, BUT good team and properties *at the moment*23:05
enycSeems to be easiest to get others into compared to many23:06
XenguyFair point23:06
enycbut I too should dip into matrix!23:10
golinuxI couldn't figure out matrix.  No surprise there.23:16
onefangAlas I can no longer use Signal on the desktop.  With my new desktop and Beowulf install, it wants to relink to the phone, but the phone camera is out of focus so it never sees the QR code.  Wish there was another way to link.  Never got an answer from Signal support.23:17
user___how can the phone camera be out of focus all the time. Grab a magnifier of a short sighted person's glasses and hold one lens in front of the phone's camera.23:19
onefangDunno, it's been out of focus for a while.  Might be a scratch on the lens or something.  When using camera apps, I see it trying to focus, going into focus, then going out of focus and staying that way.23:20
onefangI'm short sighted, I'll try that sometime later.  Though for now, the only important person on SIgnal has been moved to my own XMPP server.23:21

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