libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-12-11

DashiePiehello05:22
DashiePieI have a question, if anyone's available05:22
debdogshoot05:24
DashiePieso, I'm trying to install something in Wine, and I need wine-gecko, where could I find that?05:25
debdogit should™ ask for permission to download and install it when running a wineprefix for the first time05:26
DashiePieI don't remember if it did, but I don't think it did05:26
gnarfaceDashiePie: use the wine-gecko it asks to install on a fresh prefix05:26
debdogotherwise: https://wiki.winehq.org/Gecko05:27
gnarfaceDashiePie: (but use the mono package from the repo)05:27
DashiePieso, which one of those do I use for wine 4.0?05:51
debdoggood question. I'd try 2.47 and 2.47.105:53
DashiePie2.47 worked, thanks guys06:04
tuxd3vnew improvements to power management for AMD graphics cards are queued for linux 5.11..17:01
tuxd3vI assume they wilkl be backported to the 5,10 LTS..17:01
tuxd3verr, wilkl -> will17:01
sixwheeledbeastnavi or big navi?21:00
tuxd3vsixwheeledbeast, for a lot of boards, a lost of improvements but the part that interests me is - GCN 1.1 Sea Islands GPU power management :)22:20
sixwheeledbeastoh that old, I upgraded from Cape Verde to Polaris a while back.22:23
tuxd3vyeah , I have a Kavery APU :)22:24
tuxd3vit has a r7 inside :)22:24
tuxd3vGCN 1.122:24
suavedandyHow often do backports get upgraded?22:25
suavedandyThought about backporting the kernel.22:25
suavedandyHaving some problems with the swapfile on BtrFS.22:25
tuxd3vI just use ext4, for fs  and Zram for swap :)22:26
fsmithredsuavedandy, wheneverly22:26
suavedandyI wanted to install BtrFS so I won't screw everything up.22:27
fsmithredit's up to whoever backported it22:27
fsmithredavoiding btrfs would increase the odds of not screwing up22:27
suavedandyBut backups…22:28
suavedandyI mean, snapshots.22:28
suavedandyRollback, yes.22:28
suavedandyRollback.22:28
fsmithredthere are ways to get those things without btrfs22:28
suavedandyRestore points. What if I'll screw up the configs?22:28
fsmithredI used to always make a backup copy before editing a config file. I rarely do it now.22:29
fsmithredI think rsnapshot does what you want. Not sure.22:30
suavedandyBut if the maintainer upgrades the backport wheneverly, does that mean I'll have to update and upgrade every week?22:31
fsmithredhuh?22:31
fsmithredwhat backport are you looking for?22:31
suavedandyThe kernel.22:31
suavedandylinux-images-amd64 and and linux-headers-amd6422:32
fsmithredthose will probably continue to be backported until bullseye settles on a kernel.22:32
fsmithredfinal freeze will happen some undetermined date after next March22:32
fsmithredwhy would you have to keep upgrading it?22:33
suavedandyTo keep it up-to-date?22:33
fsmithredI assume you need a newer kernel for some newer hardware22:33
suavedandyHow often do you upgrade backports?22:33
fsmithredin which case you use what works22:33
fsmithrednever22:33
fsmithredI don't have anything in backports22:34
suavedandyI mean, I thought backports are kinda rolling. Like Arch.22:34
fsmithredanto backports mate and cinnamon22:34
suavedandyfsmithred: Nah, just for BtrFS.22:34
fsmithredkernels are backported to support new hardware. Same with firmware (occasionally)22:35
fsmithredthat's important because debian always uses old software22:35
suavedandySwap files don't work with BtrFS on kernel version <5.0.22:35
fsmithredwhat's in backports now?22:35
suavedandy5.9.22:35
fsmithredoh <22:35
fsmithredso any of those should work22:35
fsmithredif you want to pay attention to kernel security updates, look at chimaera. Backports will follow (maybe)22:36
sammi`_never thought that systemd-free debian is such active22:55
gnarfacepeople trying to trace the installation base by the amount of noise in this channel are going to get their metrics very far off, i think22:57
fsmithredlol22:57
suavedandyI think it's just people being helpful here.22:58
n4dirin #linux you hear devuan mentioned not that seldom. Not all the time, but some seem to have it in their mind. That the word devuan pops up in #debian now and then seems obvious22:58
n4dirin my experience at least more often than antix/MX22:58
suavedandyThose are newer, I think.22:59
n4dirnewer?22:59
suavedandyDevuan kinda got forked when Devuan devs changed their minds regarding SysVinit.23:00
suavedandyA portion of the devs disagreed with Debian adding systemd.23:00
suavedandyAnd it was a looooooong time ago.23:00
fsmithredhuh? We didn't change our minds about sysvinit.23:01
gnarfacei think the first "devuan" in that sentence was a typo and meant to be "debian"23:01
suavedandyI'm talking about Debian shipping systemd23:01
masonI think one of the preceding line's Devuans was intended... that23:01
fsmithredthousands of people disagreed with debian's choice23:01
suavedandyI know that the init question is still highly debated in Devuan forums.23:01
suavedandy*Debian23:01
fsmithredno it's not23:02
fsmithrednot debated23:02
gnarfaceanyway, it wasn't that long ago either.  go make me feel old with offtopic stuff in #devuan-offtopic23:02
fsmithredwe get a little upset every time someone upstream drops the init scripts from a package23:02
fsmithredyeah, thanks gnarface23:02
n4dirwell, as far it is me: not much point in discussing it. Debian uses systemd. If you don't want systemd, best is to use a different OS23:02
suavedandyI remember Debian devs discussing replacing systemd in their mailing list.23:02
n4dirit only leads to trouble discussing it.23:02
n4diri replaced systemd with sysv, and that did work. But it really is kinda pointless. imho.23:03
suavedandyfsmithred made cool Refracta installer tho. Good compromise between the standard Debian installer and debootstrap, IMHO.23:05
suavedandyThere's another reason to install Devuan.23:05
suavedandyIt's more… willing to experiment, I think?23:06
suavedandyThe guys are still adding more init systems.23:06
fsmithredOT23:06
suavedandySorry.23:06
suavedandyDamn, that happens sometimes.23:07
aitor_dconf-service now depends explicitly on a package named dbus-session-bus, and this is a virtual package pointing directly to dbus:23:29
aitor_https://packages.debian.org/buster/dconf-service23:29
aitor_this dependency didn't exist in stretch:23:29
aitor_https://packages.debian.org/stretch/dconf-service23:29
aitor_i removed it because i consider it superfluous23:30
aitor_otherwise libgtk-3-dev wouldn't be installable without dbus23:32
aitor_dconf-service is present in the package_list of fsmithred's nondbus iso image based on ascii, together with dconf-gsettings-backend23:33
fsmithredreally?23:34
aitor_yes23:34
fsmithredI did not remember and would have guessed otherwise.23:34
aitor_the changelog says: Make dconf-service pull default-dbus-session-bus | dbus-session-bus, this way leaf packages don't have to add this explicitly (Closes: #849095)23:37
aitor_dated on 15 Oct 201723:37
aitor_it makes no sense23:38
aitor_according to d/changelog, the changes related to dbus are previous to your building23:40
aitor_fsmithred: i'm building a dbus mitigated repository, it might be interesting for your experimental images23:41
fsmithredupi23:42
fsmithredre23:42
fsmithred\23:42
fsmithredfuck23:42
fsmithredsorry23:42
fsmithredyou're removing dbus deps?23:42
aitor_yes, today i removed it from xorg and dconf-service; yesterday from the whole Gtk323:43
aitor_i wonder how many projects have includet it by inertia23:44
aitor_*included23:45
fsmithredlet me know when the repo is ready. Maybe I'll make new nodbus isos with the extra repo.23:45
aitor_ok, of course23:46
aitor_bbl, i'm doing things :)23:47

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