libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-12-16

* sammi`_ for mason12:11
I_am_nobody777Hello15:27
I_am_nobody777Anyone there ?15:28
DHEintermittently15:35
sgagenope15:36
I_am_nobody777I just downloaded devuan minimal iso . dd ed it to a usb . It didn't boot .15:37
fsmithreduefi or bios hardware?15:37
I_am_nobody777uefi15:38
fsmithredminimal-live is only bios, but I did make one for uefi15:38
fsmithredwant the link?15:38
fsmithrednote: I'm the one who makes all the live isos15:38
I_am_nobody777I thought it should support both .15:38
fsmithredthe desktop-live supports both15:39
I_am_nobody777Anyways , Thanks , the link would help . ps : I downloaded from torrent .15:39
fsmithredhttps://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_uefi_minimal-live.iso15:39
fsmithredoh15:39
fsmithredno torrent for this one15:39
I_am_nobody777Thanks very much  , will use wget.15:40
fsmithredit's usually pretty fast15:40
I_am_nobody777This is my first time at irc , Am I doing fine ? Any advices  ?15:41
fsmithredyeah, you're doing fine15:41
fsmithredas already hinted, don't ask to ask; just ask.15:41
fsmithredand sometimes answer will come after minutes or hours15:41
I_am_nobody777ok , Thank you.15:45
fsmithredoh, you missed the last thing I said15:46
fsmithredanswers may come later15:46
fsmithredminutes or hours later15:47
I_am_nobody777ok , this is really cool15:47
fsmithredyeah15:47
fsmithredalso cool that people here are scattered all over the planet15:48
I_am_nobody777yeah , thanks to technology15:48
I_am_nobody777Has  anyone tried zfs root with devuan ?15:49
sgageI_am_nobody: If you want something a bit more asynchronous15:59
sgagethere is a forum as well15:59
sgagehttps://dev1galaxy.org/16:00
I_am_nobody777ok16:01
masonOh, he left before I could proselytize ZFS on Devuan.16:52
rktaE: Failed to fetch http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/f/firefox-esr/firefox-esr_78.6.0esr-1~deb10u1_amd64.deb: 404  Not Found [IP: 2001:878:346::116 80] Should I just wait?18:17
masonrkta: Do you have IPv6 enabled?18:43
rktamason: I don't know, I did not configure something after install19:03
rktamason: ifconfig shows multiple inet6 addresses19:04
masonrkta: Right, but that doesn't mean you can talk to IPv6 things in the outside world. That depends on your connection to your ISP, or if you're using a tunnelf or it.19:05
rktamason: Yes, my ISP provides IPv619:08
DHEbut the error was specifically 404, suggesting that connectivity is fine19:08
masonDHE: Yeah, just not noticed that. =cough=19:09
masonSorry.19:09
mason(I was thinking DNS didn't resolve, but as often happens, I was confused.)19:11
masonrkta: Anyway, if you try again you might get a different mirror.19:13
rktaI tried multiple times, will try again19:13
rktanope, same mirror, same error. Is a cache involved that I can clear?19:14
masonrkta: I don't believe so. I believe you're pulling Debian packages from deb.debian.org, a mirror bouncer.19:15
rktaOk, then it is a debian problem, not devuan, is it?19:16
masonrkta: If I go to http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/f/firefox-esr/ I'm evidently getting a different mirror, as I see your package.19:16
masonrkta: That's what I believe, yes.19:16
masonhttp://deb.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/f/firefox-esr/firefox-esr_78.6.0esr-1~deb10u1_amd64.deb seems to exist19:16
masonfor me anyway19:16
rktamason: wget works here too, but aptitude still fails *shrug*19:18
masonrkta: I'm not sure how to get you to resolve a different Debian mirror beyond being tricky with /etc/hosts or something. But you could try that.19:19
masonrkta: Maybe add an entry in /etc/hosts giving a more workable mirror in place of deb.debian.org.19:19
masonrkta: There's a list here: https://www.debian.org/mirror/list19:20
masonI've not tested this theory but it might consistently get you faster downloads.19:21
rktamason: thanks, I gonna install the deb with dpkg and try changing the mirror if the problem occurs regularly19:22
masonrkta: That sounds like the best plan.19:26
systemdleteI used dd to create swapfile on an encrypted btrfs, which in turn is on lvm partition.  On one system, this works fine, on the other it fails because the dd-generated file has holes in it.  Any ideas?21:21
systemdleteMy dd cmd was thus so: dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/swap bs=1048576 count=10021:22
systemdletemkswap /home/swap ; swapon /home/swap21:23
systemdletekern.log reports that the swapfile has holes in it.21:24
systemdlete(Yes, I ddg'd for it.  Just admonitions to use dd, not fallocate, which solved many peoples' problem)21:25
masonsystemdlete: Be aware that it can be deeply problematic if you are forced into swap, but swap has both a CoW filesystem and an encrypted layer in-between you and it.21:27
masonsystemdlete: Does btrfs have an equivalent to ZFS volumes? If so, that'd be a better answer, although still far from ideal.21:28
systemdleteI did not realize that swap has encrytion already.  Is that enabled by default?21:28
masonBest would be just saving a raw partition to use for swap, or a raw MD, or even adding LUKS.21:28
systemdleteBut mason, I am thinking the problem is btrfs.  On the system where it worked, it was ext4 (with lvm encrypted)21:29
systemdleteI'm using luks for /home, so I figured it would be safe to have a swap on /home21:29
systemdleteBut since swap apparently has encryption already, maybe I can put the swap on another partition.21:30
masonsystemdlete: It doesn't on its own, but you can easily support it - reference (for instance) /dev/mapper/swap have something in /etc/crypttab that makes that exist, and give it a swap flag.21:30
masonsystemdlete: The real issue would be having swap living atop BtrFS.21:30
systemdleteoh, I see.  Thanks.21:30
systemdleteRight.21:30
systemdleteI didn't notice that until a moment after I posted, sorry.   That would be the kicker, yes.21:30
masonsystemdlete: It will probably work fine without pressure, but you really want swap when your system has memory pressure.21:31
systemdleteSo btrfs is likely to have holes in a dd'd file then.21:31
systemdlete?21:33
systemdletewhat happened -- I just typed something and it is gone21:33
systemdleteI'll create a lv for swap and add it to /etc/cryptfs21:34
masoncryptfs?21:35
systemdletecrypttab, sorry.21:39
systemdleteanyway, is it that btrfs just doesn't support hole-less (non-sparse) files?  Why doesn't it work?21:39
systemdletehttps://lwn.net/Articles/718805/ -- slightly different problem, but it seems to point to some issue with sparseness on btrfs21:46
systemdleteI think I will create a new lv fs for /home (and swap), format it for ext4, copy my existing home to it, and create the swapfile there instead.  My objective is to only have to enter the crypt fs password once (I have my system set for autologin)21:47
systemdleteSounds to me like btrfs still needs some maturation or the like.21:48
masonYeah. Hopefully it gets there someday.21:52
systemdleteI'm not knocking btrfs.  It will eventually become the replacement for ext4 and friends.  I'm trying an experiment.  Instead of dd from /dev/zero, I'm dd'ing from /dev/random (which takes eternity, but...)22:01
systemdleteThen I'll see if mkswap/swapon works with that.  I don't dare use it for real, though.  Just an experiment.22:01
fsmithredit should be fine. It's not like swap is always full of zeroes.22:02
systemdleteEven if that much works, there is no guarantee that btrfs swap will work in use because maybe it will save zeroed blocks to the swapfile, leaving a hole in the table!22:03
systemdleteI'd rather not be a guinea pig for that result.22:03
fsmithredwhy btrfs and lvm? Doesn't the btrfs give you the features of lvm?22:03
systemdleteI haven't tried it, tbh.22:03
systemdleteI'm not anxious about using btrfs.  It's more that I'm trying not to be so... old.22:04
systemdleteI'm trying to be a bit... uh.  idk.22:04
systemdletedaring?22:04
golinuxTry a couch and a analyst to work that out22:05
n4dirmost hypes come and go. The de-facto standards stay. I am fine being old and ignoring the hypes. My 2 cents22:10
golinuxThe SNS syndrome is a mental defect IMO22:11
systemdlete(I think golinux is reminding us to take this to O.T. channel)22:13
golinuxGood idea!22:14
systemdlete(I figured you would!)22:14
golinuxofftopic is our therapy center22:15
fsmithred!!!22:15
infobotin #devuan the exclamation mark ("!"), when put as first char in a line, is the infobot attention char (a shorthand for "infobot: ..." highlight). This is on special request, in most other channels the bot uses tilde ("~") as attention char, and you'll find factoids referring to that like "also see ~<factoid>"22:15
fsmithredoops. sorry.22:15
systemdlete(!)22:16
* systemdlete heads over to therapy22:16
fsmithredgood luck22:16

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