libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2021-01-14

raphahi all!00:42
raphais there any reasonably sane way to get ruby and ruby-dev 2.7 from chimaera installed in beowulf? or would i be better off just dist-upgrading entirely?00:42
onefangDid you check if it's in beowulf-backports?00:49
fsmithredit's not00:49
raphaso i'm left only with uninstalling the package and building from source=00:52
aitor_ruby-defaults 1:2.7+2 requires debhelper-compat (=12)00:53
fsmithredrapha, sometimes packages from testing will work in stable, but often they do not.00:53
aitor_as builddep, i mean00:54
fsmithreddid you try to install it and run into problems?00:54
raphai tried putting the chimaera sources into sources.list but then immediately it wanted to upgrade half the system00:54
fsmithredyeah, you need to pin it to a lower priority00:54
fsmithredit=chimaera00:54
raphaoh? "pin it"?00:55
fsmithredyeah, you can set the priority lower, so it does not automatically install everything from chimaera.00:55
fsmithredyou have to specify that you want a package from there00:56
fsmithredor else just download the packages you need and install them with dpkg00:56
unixbsdaitor: it works fine. I guess that I will add a little fltk frontend on top of mupdf to add content on pdf (over pdflatex).00:56
aitor_unixbsd: pdftk?00:58
fsmithredruby-dev ruby2.7-dev libgmp-dev libruby2.7 libgmp10 (= 2:6.1.2+dfsg-4), libgmpxx4ldbl (= 2:6.1.2+dfsg-4)00:59
unixbsdtoo heavy00:59
unixbsdI prefer to make my own mupdf00:59
fsmithredok, now it's starting to look more complicated. rapha I didn't keep going with the dependencies.00:59
unixbsdanyhow there is no pdf editor today, so fltk + mupdf is best bet.00:59
raphafsmithred: i read the debian wiki and created a file in /etc/apt/preferences.d/ ... but that doesn't seem to have had any effect. does it have to be enabled somehow first?01:00
fsmithredit has to be correct01:01
fsmithredPackage: *01:02
fsmithredPin: release n=chimaera01:02
fsmithredPin-Priority: 5001:02
aitor_fltk is a gui library01:02
raphaah n=, not o=01:02
unixbsdaitor_: ah yes, it allows to make little frontend with an ide01:02
fsmithredyeah, and for beowulf-backports or experimental, it's a=01:03
raphaah, much nicer: "2 packages can be upgraded"01:03
fsmithredcool01:03
fsmithredgood luck01:03
aitor_yes, fltk seems good01:03
fsmithredbtw upgrade to chimaera might not be bad.01:03
fsmithreddepends on how much stuff you got installed01:03
unixbsdwell, it is C++. that's unreliable01:03
raphaokay, sitll wants to upgrade 94 packages01:04
raphathat all seems half-baked01:04
fsmithredmostly related to the ruby stuff?01:04
raphaif you're saying that chimaera atm is quite okay, i think i'll do the full upgrade01:04
raphano, fsmithred ... including libc stuff01:04
fsmithredsome people have run into problems, but others are doing fine01:04
fsmithredoh01:04
aitor_crossed conversations :)01:05
fsmithredaccording to what I was seeing, it needs libc6 >2.1401:05
fsmithredwhich is old01:05
raphai don't think i did anything special to the system so far, or installed anything weird01:05
fsmithredI upgraded my Refracta install to chimaera on old thinkpad. It seems fine.01:05
fsmithredget rid of metapackages if you can01:06
fsmithredtask-whatever-desktop, task-desktop, desktop-base01:06
fsmithredthose aren't fully ready01:06
fsmithredand have horrible dependencies to deal with if you try to change stuff01:06
raphait's a headless system01:07
fsmithredif it's a new install, it's probably worth the risk01:07
fsmithredno desktop???01:07
raphanope01:07
fsmithredI predict little or no trouble01:07
fsmithredlol01:07
raphadevelopment server ... so also not that bad if stuff breaks01:08
raphahow do you find out though which task-* thing you might have installed?01:08
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep task-01:08
fsmithredoh01:08
raphatask-console-productivity task-english task-ssh-server01:09
fsmithredyou might possibly have01:09
fsmithredthose01:09
fsmithredapt show task-console-productivity01:09
fsmithreddon't post it here01:09
AnimaInvicta:part01:09
AnimaInvictaops, sorry. Typo.01:09
AnimaInvicta:part01:10
raphawow those are pulling in quite a bit of stuff i'm pretty sure i'll never use or need01:10
fsmithredssh-server you want01:10
fsmithredtask-english? dictionaries I guess01:10
fsmithredthe other one has a lot of packages01:10
raphathere's a package called "toilet-fonts" lol01:10
fsmithredlol01:11
onefangDon't use toilet-fonts, they are shit.  B-)01:11
fsmithredTOIlet prints text using large characters made of smaller characters.01:12
raphaokay, set those that i care about to manually installed01:13
fsmithredyou got rid of the pin file?01:18
raphayup01:18
fsmithredalso, there's only one repo01:18
fsmithredno -security or -updates01:18
fsmithreduntil it goes stable01:18
fsmithredtwo if you have a deb-src line for it01:19
raphaoh damn01:20
raphaleft the update one in01:20
raphabut no 404 like fore the security one01:20
raphahmm ... seems it went well01:35
fsmithred:)01:35
fsmithreddid you get new kernel?01:36
rapha5.10.0-1?01:42
fsmithredyeah, that's probably the newest01:43
fsmithredmy laptop still has 5.901:44
raphait's not of much consequence for a VM :P01:45
Guest24should i turn off root during the install process?03:38
fsmithredwhy? You don't like to use a root account?03:40
Guest24idk isn't it good for security or smth?03:40
Guest24i don't really have a problem but it recommended changing the root password03:40
Guest24the installer guide that is03:40
fsmithredthe live installer?03:40
Guest24yes03:40
fsmithredyes, change the root password, because EVERYONE knows it03:41
Guest24did that03:41
fsmithredeveryone in the whole world03:41
Guest24i changed it bc i'm paranoid03:41
Guest24i'm aware that i didn't have to03:41
fsmithredI don't change it when I'm doing a test install in a VM03:42
fsmithredbut for a real system, really. It's public knowledge.03:43
gnarfaceGuest24: it's not actually more secure to disable the root account unless you have a mental problem that prevents you from remembering two passwords.04:29
gnarfaceGuest24: you should however absolutely disable remote root access to sshd (which is different from disabling the root account as a whole)04:30
gnarfacethe reason for this is ultimately you'll still need root access for certain administration tasks, and without an actual root account you must resort to sudo04:30
gnarfaceor su04:31
gnarfaceand it's a longer discussion but neither of those things actually make you more secure either04:31
gnarfaceif properly used, su just won't make you less secure04:32
gnarfacebut there's no situation where sudo is safer for a single-user system04:32
gnarfaceit's more for shared systems where the root password would be a liability - but under the default configuration even then it would be ridiculously insecure04:33
gnarface(you are supposed to limit commands through it but nobody without a CS degree ever succeeds at that)04:34
gnarfaceparanoia is good though.  paranoia will make you a better admin.04:35
gnarfaceactually i'm not even sure you can use su if you mark the root account as disabled04:46
gnarfacei think it depends on whether it's disabling the shell or the password04:46
Xenguygnarface: That's definitely a quotable quote:  "paranoia will make you a better admin."05:09
Guest24i'm far from being anything near an admin lmao05:15
Guest24but thanks05:15
Guest24well i fucked up the partitions05:24
Guest24well one05:24
Guest24i forgot a boot partition05:24
Guest24should be an easy fix05:24
brudisconnect05:29
Guest24funny05:29
furrywolfok, that's odd.  wicd is still installed, but no longer seems to have a menu entry after the beowulf upgrade.05:58
gnarfacefurrywolf: might be an old glitch, try "touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor ~/.local/share/icons/hicolor" and "gtk-update-icon-cache"07:39
gnarface(just guessing, but that was the fix for a similar problem at one point)07:39
e3d3fsmithred: Can it be that I have issues with RefractaSnapshot because I added Devuan to the Grub2 menu of another installed distro ?10:07
fsmithrede3d3, it doesn't matter which grub in booting the system. It should still make a bootable snapshot. Maybe you should install eudev from beowulf-proposed-updates and then make another snapshot. That could either fix it or rule out the bug in eudev.11:03
e3d3fsmithred: How do I rule out the bug in eudev ? By uncomment the line with: ifnames_opt="net.ifnames=0" ?11:14
e3d3in /etc/refractasnapshot.conf11:14
fsmithredplease forget about that line11:14
fsmithreddo not use it11:14
fsmithredyou do not want that (you do not want your password stored inside the iso)11:15
fsmithredrule out the bug in eudev by using the version of eudev that doesn't have that bug11:15
e3d3so the fix it or rule out is the same as the suggestion before; install eudev from proposed-updates repo ?11:16
fsmithredywa11:16
fsmithredyes11:16
e3d3okay, then I try that11:16
fsmithreddeb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan beowulf-proposed-updates11:17
e3d3I know how to do that now.11:17
fsmithredadd taht line to sources11:17
fsmithrednote /devuan NOT /merged11:17
e3d3noted11:18
fsmithredyou could also get newer refractainstaller from there11:19
e3d3just before you posted the repo I found it on https://pkginfo.devuan.org/xsl-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=eudev11:20
e3d3but here they used merged:   http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-proposed-updates/main amd6411:20
e3d3I upgraded eudev from the given "devuan"-repo, without errors. Guess I need a reboot before trying to make another snapshot, not ?11:32
e3d3nm, I'll reboot to be save, and rapport after trying a new snapshot. Thanks again for the help so far11:36
e3d3fsmithred: I made a new snapshot, got no errors, but an iso that is too big; 6.9 GB. I has /live/filesystem-squashfs twice, 1 is 4 GB, the other 2,8 GB.12:15
e3d3maybe it is because I remembered to close all other apps halfway the snapshot was made12:18
e3d3I used the same config & exclude list as before, and the upgrade eudev12:20
e3d3(and without audio file or other additions)12:21
e3d3I just see that my previous snapshot occupies only 227 MB on the DVD, while the snapshot (deleted) was x GB12:26
e3d3maybe some magic will shrink the 7 GB to 1 GB while burning the iso ?12:28
e3d3maybe I should (have) upgrade all packages with the proposed-repo, incl refractainstaller ?12:34
fsmithredhow can you have two copies of filesystem.squashfs. They must have idfferent names12:34
e3d3indeed, I'll check again12:34
fsmithredlook at the error log, too12:35
fsmithred /var/log/refractasnapshot.loog12:35
fsmithredlog12:35
e3d3okay. I checked again, with the famous isomaster, and here they have really the same name12:36
fsmithredyou can't have two files with the same name and the same path12:37
e3d3I know but that is what isomaster shows. Can I see the content of the iso in another way ?12:38
e3d3I don't see anything suspisious in the log12:38
fsmithredyou could look at the iso directory that was used to create it12:38
fsmithred /home/work/iso/12:38
e3d3okay12:38
fsmithredI don't understand what isomaster is showing you12:39
fsmithredhow do you perceive two of the same file?12:39
fsmithredmount <isofile> /mnt12:41
e3d3I have no /home/work directory. Isomaster is a GUI app. When it list the content of the iso I see 2 lines for the same file, but with different sizes. I'll check again with a lens to be sure.12:41
e3d3yes of course, mount12:41
fsmithredok, did you change the location of work_dir in the config file? Or is save_work=no?12:42
e3d3no I didn't change location of the work dir. I didn't change the default for save_work but must check its value. In the mounted iso there is only 1 filesystem.squashfs with size 6.8 GB12:45
e3d3save_work=no is uncommented, but I can't think that I have done this. I have no reason for this.12:46
e3d3e3d3: still struggling with partly set global key bindings in this fresh Devuan12:48
e3d3The comment above save_work tells that no is the default.12:50
fsmithredyeah, default is not to save the work directory. I asked you to change that the other day to re-squash the iso. I don't know if you still need to do that.12:58
fsmithredI like to save the work dir because it makes a re-run go faster and it leaves evidence if there's a problem.12:59
fsmithredyou need to check your excludes file to make the iso smaller12:59
e3d3I didn't change the exclude file, checked but will do it again, and set save_work to yes. I (now) only changed snapshot_basename and volid in the config file.13:02
e3d3my exclude file is default, except I don't exclude my tiny ~/.bash_history file13:07
e3d3I don't know what you mean with re-squash. Do I need to compress the iso manually ?13:09
e3d3or does this only apply after modifying the work dir ?13:10
fsmithredre-squash is for editing work_dir/myfs and making a new iso without copying the system again13:17
fsmithredif your iso is 6GB you need to exclude some files from the copy.13:18
fsmithredwhy do you want to keep bash_history?13:20
e3d3okay, so that is not the case here. The ca 3 GB difference between this & previous snapshot must be because I installed apps in between, although I all expect them to be lightweight: feh & viewnior (image viewer), exa (ls replacement), fzf (fuzzy search), moc (CLI audio player), neofetch (system info in terminal), shellcheck and ag (silver searcher). I'll need to check exact installed sizes. My Devuan partition used13:22
e3d3 8.9 GB.13:22
fsmithredthere's an option in the config file to use better compression13:23
e3d3fsmithred: I cleaned my bash-history. Normally I depend on my own cheat-tools & marker (CLI bookmark tool) but I need to install these13:23
fsmithredthat will help13:23
e3d3I recently replace Nano by Micro editor, nice but I easily make a mess by using Emacs key bindings here. one moment13:25
e3d3I've set compression to the smallest size. I hope it will be enough to get the 6.8 GB to a DVD.13:27
e3d3I'm going to make a new snapshot, with save_work=yes and using highest compression. Following the advise I close all other apps, incl IRC. I'll rapport on succes, and drink some booze on failure ;) Thanks again so far, and please tell me if I bother you or waist too much of your time.13:30
fsmithredgood luck. If the iso is too big, there's a way to copy the iso dir to usb and make it bootable.13:32
e3d3it's hybrid not ?13:32
fsmithredyeah, it's isohybrid.13:33
fsmithredyou can use dd or cat to put the iso on a usb13:33
fsmithredbut there's also a way to copy the iso dir (contents of the iso file) to usb13:33
fsmithrednot isohybrid. Multi-boot usb is possible.13:34
e3d3that won't be this week. My usb-stick require a lot administrative work, that I keep avoiding.13:34
e3d3but I can try is multisystem (multiboot app) accepts the snapshot13:34
e3d3but I don't think I have enough space for this13:35
fsmithredmaybe not13:35
e3d3Its good to know that I was right about that I can't have enough USB-sticks, instead of re-organize them13:36
e3d3fsmithred: Seeing the snapshot being made I remembered that last night I copied 2 movies to a custom temp folder. Sorry that I bothered you with this. Does a higher iso compression ratio slow down booting ?13:50
fsmithredI don't know. I never timed it in comparison to un-compressed.13:50
fsmithredIt does make the squashing take longer.13:51
e3d3Than I try without compression, guessing the iso will still fit on a DVD(RW)13:51
e3d3Must be, the 2 movies where > 5GB13:51
* e3d3 going to snapshot again13:52
e3d3fsmithred: If you can read this than the snapshot works, incl networking connecting14:31
e3d3Now running from same laptop that made the snapshot. I'm going to test it also on my other laptops.14:35
fsmithredgood14:45
fsmithredhi14:45
fsmithredyou're on a different laptop now?14:46
e3d3fsmithred: snapshot boots also on my HP laptop.14:46
fsmithredyay!14:46
e3d3but I don't know how to activate the hardware network button/key14:46
fsmithredwhat do you mean?14:46
e3d3The HP laptop is the only one with a network button. I need to enable this first, but it has no default key for it, and don't react on pressing it14:47
fsmithredmake sure the right firmware is installed for the wireless14:48
e3d3it's specific for that HP laptop (I'm now back on normal Devuan laptop again (Asus))14:48
fsmithredwhen you next boot that laptop, run lspci to see what network hardware you have14:48
e3d3you warned me before about install specific hardware.14:49
e3d3I have an inxi rapport of that laptop, somewhere14:49
fsmithredI warned you before that the wireless hardware usually requires specific firmware packages14:49
e3d3yep, I remember that14:49
e3d3The HP has Realtek network stuf14:50
fsmithredok, and firmware-realtek should be installed (unless you removed it)14:50
e3d3Realtek TRL8111/8168/8411 for wireless14:50
fsmithredRTL14:51
e3d3But that won't activate the network (touch)button on this HP14:51
e3d3indeed RTL14:51
e3d3I think my "good" friend google can help me with the switch14:52
fsmithredinstall rfkill and run that14:52
fsmithredafk, bbl14:54
e3d3I see that rfkill is already installed, only /usr/sbin is not in PATH !?15:09
e3d3and it can only unblock soft wifi block, not a hard block, that is; blocked by a hardware switch15:10
n4dire3d3: you need to either use: su - ; instead of su; or make an according change in a config file i need to search for15:10
djphe3d3: normal for non-root (and if you su without loading root's login session)15:10
Xenguy /usr/sbin is for root user I think15:11
n4dirALWAYS_SET_PATH yes15:11
n4dirin /etc/default/su ; if that is what you want15:11
e3d3n4dir: sory but I can't follow you. Do I need su - with rfkill for a hard block ?15:12
n4dire3d3: i don't know about rfkill, but if you only type "su" you don't get roots PATH15:12
n4dirso either use: su - (plus the hyphen), or if it bugs you, make the change in said config file15:13
n4dirclear?15:13
e3d3sorry but I don't get the context of your remarks. Has it to do that /usr/sbin is not in the path ? If so I solved that for now by using the command with whole path15:14
n4diryes, root not getting the PATH when only using "su" is what i speak of15:15
e3d3Okay, but I wasn't even using sudo to invoke the rfkill command15:15
n4diri didn't speak of sudo at all15:15
n4dirdo: su; echo $PATH15:16
n4dirthen: su -; echo $PATH15:16
e3d3I did and see the differences. This is new for me. I'm used to use only sudo in Debian distro's. In PClinuxOS I used su.15:18
n4dirit is pretty new.15:18
e3d3so now I have to choice between sudo, su and su - to invoke stuff ?15:19
e3d3nm. I'll will read about it15:20
n4diryou could have done su - ; all the time, but now it is necessary, if you want the PATH. There are even more ways to do it.15:21
e3d3incl adding /usr/bin to PATH in ~/.bashrc ?15:21
e3d3bin = sbin15:22
n4diri don't know. Never heard of it, thats for sure.15:22
n4dirwell, not for that case/problem15:23
e3d3nm. Its a problem for later. First I need to find out how to enable a hardware network switch15:26
e3d3thanks for explaining cq pointing to the su 'thing'15:26
n4dirpretty much everyone seems to run into it, including me.15:27
n4dirgood luck with the real problem.15:27
e3d3then I have to read about sooner that I hoped, but np15:28
e3d3thanks15:28
* KREYREEN seeded 1.74 of 10.82 GB worth of devuan torrent~15:56
* KREYREEN came to expect virtual headpats15:56
* buZz pats head16:10
* bru raises his thumb to KREYREEN16:27
KREYREEN^-^16:35
KREYREENthanku~16:36
KREYREENdo that more often~16:36
fsmithredhardware network switch normally requires a finger. Look carefully at the sides, back and front of the laptop for a physical switch. e3de17:18
fsmithredstill worng17:18
fsmithrede3d317:18
fsmithrednot here17:18
ibanjaI need to move var/ data to a new LVM partition. I was going to user rsync -aHAX to sync from old directory to the new partition. Is this the proper way? I'm concerned about preserving permissions, links... and avoiding other unforeseen consequences.19:49
ibanjathat's use 'rsync -aHAX'19:51
onefangStuff in /var likely has open files currently being written to.  That's another unforeseen consequence.19:52
ibanjaI am using an LVM snapshot19:53
ibanjalooking at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/96523/how-can-a-filesystem-be-copied-exactly-as-is19:55
ibanjaI think I'll give it a go.19:55
onefangThings like databases in /var where in a consistent state when this snapshot was made?19:55
onefangWhen I did this not so long ago, I booted into another system with it's own /var, then mounted and copied the other /var.19:56
ibanjaare you saying you booted from a usb drive and then did it from within the usb system?20:00
onefangSimilar, I had another partition with another Linux install on it, and booted from that.20:03
ibanjagot it... did you rsync or just cp?20:07
onefangI used the mc  (midnight commander) "copy and preserve attributes" function.20:08
ibanjahmm... good idea. good old mc. thanks. I'm going to try that.20:10

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!