libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-01-20

tuxd3vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5E8ie2pdM06:13
brutuxd3v: Yup, Devuan is simply the best.06:46
tuxd3vbru, -.-06:51
ziaorefractainstaller is not asking me to install the bootloader07:30
ziaoworks fine with the netinstaller07:30
un22Hello all how do I join #devuan-arm... or can anyone tell me about status of devuan  for raspberry pi 4?12:41
Jorilun22: I've built a working Devuan image for RPI4 using https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder13:49
Jorilun22: when/if you come back :)13:49
alvquit16:58
alvhi all where are the jessie working repositories ?? also the backports ?18:03
alvi tried many but all have some problems ?18:03
james1138I did not think Jessie had and backports - none that I could find.18:04
james1138deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie main18:05
alvthey do still exist ??18:05
alvahhh ok sorry18:05
alvstrange i was having a pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged main backports18:07
alvin one old system18:07
alvopps it was  jessie-backports main18:09
alvnot main backports18:09
gnarfacejessie is being mothballed, you'll want to get off it18:12
gnarfacesome of the parts of the repo are already gone18:13
gnarface(notably backports and security/volatile)18:13
james1138If you want to continue fetching Jessie backports, you need to use archive.debian.org instead18:13
alvyes i saw it18:13
alvno already trid archive18:14
alvtried18:14
alvnot working too18:14
xinomilothere's an archive.devuan.org with only jessie in... maybe that's it..18:19
fsmithreddeb http://archive.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free18:24
fsmithredalv, ^^^ This appears to be working.18:25
Guest60user account wasn't setup for some reason, but the root account and password worked fine20:06
Coffee__Okay, so I think I found a bug in the handling of USB ethernet devices after a few hours of messing around with it. It seems that it doesn't autoconfigure them in the slightest (I'm not a networking expert on Linux), so I had to run `ip link set enx00e04c0104a7 up` followed by `/sbin/dhclient` to finally get it working. I'm on beowulf, and I don't know which package I would report this issue in. (Possibly20:07
Coffee__related to #18 on the bug tracker.)20:07
nemodon't have any USB over here regrettably..20:08
nemoCoffee__: but you can't do that in wicd network manager at least?20:08
Coffee__I tried everything I could in wicd, but could not get it working (maybe I'm an idiot)20:09
Coffee__wicd was happy to connect to the wifi if that is helpful information20:09
nemomy personal complaint in beowulf on my SO's machine is that she does have to manually toggle wireless on, then join network20:09
nemoit does not autojoin20:09
nemobut haven't gotten around to resolving it20:09
nemoin ascii she used mate network manager which worked flawlessly but that is apparently no longer an option20:10
nemothat said, GUIs do seem to work for us, even with the manual step20:10
nemohowever no USB over here20:10
nemobit confused as to why USB would be special though. neither of your steps above seem like things wicd can't do20:10
Coffee__Yeah I also have that issue too for having to manually connect. I forced showing the usb adapter (it hides it by default) in wicd then clicked connect, but it widn't work.20:11
fsmithredyou set it as the default wireless interface in wicd preferences?20:11
nemofsmithred: hm. pretty sure. I'll recheck next time I'm up there20:11
nemofsmithred: she only has the one20:11
nemoand is network is set to autoconnect, not that it does it20:12
fsmithredand you spelled that "memorable" name correctly?20:12
fsmithredasking Coffee__20:12
nemobut maybe I neglected something20:12
fsmithrednemo, you're using wicd?20:12
nemowell. there's no other option in beowulf last I checked20:12
fsmithredand the autoconnect checkbox doesn't do it?20:12
nemoshe's not thrilled, definitely was more familiar w/ mate's20:12
nemofsmithred: it wasn't... hm.  maybe I can remote in to her machine and launch wicd. lessee if it is on20:13
fsmithrednetwork-manager and connman are other choices20:13
Coffee__It won't let me choose a wired interface by name as far as I can see (responding to fsmithred). The USB ethernet is wired if that matters. My only choice is "wired-default" in a dropdown20:13
nemoseems to be down. I'll check later20:13
fsmithredoh20:13
fsmithredok, Coffee__ maximize the wicd window and you will see where the Preferences are hidden20:14
fsmithredupper right20:15
fsmithredput the enx-blah number in for default wired interface20:15
Coffee__I saw that earlier. Would it fix it if I filled in the "Wired interface" field? I guess I can reboot and see if you want me to.20:15
fsmithredyeah, it needs to know which interface to use20:15
fsmithredyou can just restart wicd service20:16
Coffee__There is only one available so shouldn't it automatically pick it? It automatically picked the wireless interface.20:16
fsmithredif you open the preferences and that number is already in the box, then yeah, it's automatic20:17
fsmithredotherwise, not.20:17
Coffee__Hmm, okay I'm going to fill in the field and reboot and see if it automatically reconnects. I'll be back in a few minutes20:18
fsmithredok20:18
Coffee__fsmithred you were correct. It automatically connects now. I still feel that it was extremely unintuitive especially considering I only have one ethernet interface (not even one enabled, just one that exists).20:21
Coffee__If I wanted to propose changing this would I take to the maintainers of wicd?20:23
Coffee__*talk20:23
fsmithredyeah, maybe. I'm not sure what the deal is with wicd20:24
fsmithredthere's a version in experimental, and there was or is some issue with python2 vs python320:25
fsmithredthere's a good chance that network-manager will be the default in chimaera, since wicd is missing.20:25
Hurgotronaww? I liked wicd...20:28
fsmithredme too20:28
n4dirme too20:31
Coffee__What do you meaning by wicd is missing? Is it not available on chimaera?20:33
fsmithredcorrect20:33
fsmithredthere is a version in ceres, but it's the same one that's in beowulf, and it's a devuanized version20:33
fsmithredit's not in sid or bullseye20:34
rwpSince I am not a python person and though I liked wicd there were some weird things about it, I will probably try connman for a bit and then try writing my own.20:43
rwpSince I don't know what I don't know and the view from here does not seem that difficult.20:43
fsmithredthere's also simple-netaid in gnuinos repo20:44
fsmithredI think there's also ceni available20:44
fsmithredoh, and there's still setnet in devuan experimental20:44
fsmithredrwp, https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200301.213630.00c83746.en.html20:46
fsmithredI know there are several older discussions about simple-netaid on that list20:47
fsmithredpermission and security related stuff20:48
rwpSo that's a C library for building ifupdown-like tools?20:48
Guest60hey so on a fresh install my user account isn't set up, but the root works fine. should i switch to chimaera and make the user account later?20:58
gnarfaceno, but it won't actually matter20:59
gnarfaceyou should make the new account now, because running as root isn't something you should do if you have to ask why not to20:59
Guest60alr20:59
gnarfacebut it should be possible to make the new account either before or after upgrading21:00
gnarfacei'm assuming you have a reason to upgrade other than the missing user account, or i'd advise against it21:00
Guest60yeah21:01
Guest60i want to try testing out21:01
Guest60so i'll make the user account now and do the upgrade after21:01
Guest60i made it during install but it doesn't work for some reason21:01
Guest60i tried checking with the users command but only root comes up21:01
gnarfacewell, "users" only reports currently logged-in users, so that's not a surprise21:03
Guest60does the same thing happen with who?21:03
gnarfaceyes21:03
rwpAnd also "w" which is another common who+uptime command.21:04
rwpThose only report logged in users.  Not on available logins.21:04
Guest60how can i see all user accounts then?21:04
gnarfacelook in /etc/passwd21:04
gnarfacealso look in /home/21:04
rwpA cheap and easy way is to "ls /home" or "ls -l /home" and see the home directories of users there.21:04
gnarfaceyea, though if the user creation went awry for whatever reason, it might have failed to create a home directory21:05
Guest60wait nvm21:05
Guest60i guess i named the user account the wrong thing or smth21:06
Guest60anyways i think i know what the problem is21:06
Guest60how can i change my account name?21:06
fsmithredsome usermod commands21:07
fsmithredusermod -l $newname $oldname21:07
n4diri wouldn't bother much with it. deluser olduser; rm -r /home/olduser, adduser newuser21:07
fsmithredyeah, that's easier21:07
n4diras long you didn't know what exactly went wrong21:08
rwpIt's one of those things of, "If you have to ask then..." but I always simply edit the files and rename the directory manually.  (shrug)21:10
fsmithredif you have a desktop, the old user name might be hanging around in some hidden files21:10
rwpSuch as...??21:11
rwpI say pictures or it didn't happen! :-)21:11
n4dirisn't it scripted somewhere in refractainstaller ? or at least "was"21:12
n4dirhunt for them and rename them21:12
fsmithredfor i in $(grep -r "/home/$oldname" /home/$newname/.config | awk -F":" ' { print $1 }'); do21:13
rwp"grep -r $oldname /home/$oldname"21:13
rwpJinx! :-)21:13
fsmithredlol21:13
fsmithredsame in .kde if you use it21:13
fsmithredsame in .local21:13
rwpI would use "find" for me but find puts people off so I thought grep -r.  "find /home -type f -exec grep $oldname {} +"21:14
fsmithredit's in there so that when you open a terminal or file manager, it knows what directory to show21:14
rwpInstead of renaming since those .config files are created upon first use I would probably simply remove them and let them be created again.  If they encode special things.21:15
n4dirsledgehammer is the best hammer21:15
rwpAssuming they are doing some type of caching of the name instead of using $HOME and $USER as they ought to be doing.21:15
rwpThere are only a few ways to do things correctly but there are an infinite number of ways for things to be done the wrong way...  Sigh.21:16
rwpIn practice one of the worst problems in this space I would run into is sharing a $HOME directory across different DE versions. Because the DE versions would fight with each other.21:18
Guest60ok so i should rename the user folder, and go into the /etc/passwd file and edit the names for that user account21:18
Guest60right?21:18
rwpYes.  Correct.21:18
fsmithredand /etc/group21:18
Guest60alright21:19
rwpAlso know that the set of four account files are /etc/passwd, /etc/group, /etc/shadow, /etc/gshadow21:19
Guest60what do shadow and gshadow do btw? i saw it while installing grub in refracta21:19
rwpEditing the username string in that set of four files is all that is needed.  Plus ensuring that the home directory listed in /etc/passwd matches in /home21:19
n4dirdeleting and recreating the user still seems to be the most easy solution to me21:19
rwpSo edit those files and then "ls -l /home" and verify that everything is consistent and matching.21:19
fsmithred^^^21:19
rwp/etc/shadow holds the hashed password for the user.21:20
fsmithredmy arrows were supposed to point to n4dir's statement21:20
rwp/etc/gshadow is mostly useless and I am still trying to understand why it was created.  Just for symmetry? Probably.21:20
fsmithreddeluser oldname && adduser newname21:20
fsmithreddone21:20
rwpDeleting and recreating is maximally safe.  But manually editing gives the opportunity to learn.  Which has long term advantages.21:21
n4diri think you also have to delete the home directory. But it really is like 30 seconds altogether21:21
fsmithredyeah, probably21:21
rwpn4dir, One should rename the home directory at the same time.  "mv /home/$oldname /home/$newname"  That's it.21:21
rwpSo that it matches the last field of /etc/passwd which lists the $HOME directory.  Which would have been renamed when editing /etc/passwd because of the name.21:22
n4dirwell. then you have to hunt with grep. but anyway.21:22
rwpgrep?  We had this FUD about grep.  But it really isn't needed.  Pictures or it did not happen!21:22
n4dirGuest60: can make the pictures, if you need them21:25
Guest60i think i'll be fine21:25
Guest60but thanks21:25
fazzahhi, how can i stop my devuan os going to sleep/screensaver when i watch fullscreen video in firefox?21:26
rwpfazzah, You don't know it but you are staring into a dark abyss with that question.  I have seen fights break out over it.21:29
Guest60n4dir, so if i did deluser oldname && adduser newname, all i would have to do is passwd newname to create a password for the new account right?21:30
n4diradduser will already ask for a password21:31
Guest60oh ok21:31
fsmithredgrep -rn home/fsmithred .config |wc -l21:31
fsmithred42221:31
rwpfsmithred, Wow!  Who are the offenders?  I will try that here.21:32
rwpAlso, you didn't need -a to avoid the "binary file matches" breakage?21:33
fsmithredwow, a bunch are supertuxcart21:33
n4diruh yeah !21:33
rwpI am getting hits in chromium history sqlite database.21:33
fsmithredgeany, rosegarden, vlc,21:33
fsmithreddesktop icons21:33
fsmithredrwp I never use -a21:34
fsmithredI don't mind knowing that my pattern is in a binary file, especially if it's my name21:34
rwpThe -a was never needed before grep added checking for binary files.  So now I almost always add -a.21:35
rwpI don't see the need to know it was a binary file.  Just being a file is good enough for me.21:35
rwpI get 54 hits.  Mostly in chromium sqlite history files.  Then something about "ghb" a few hits.  Then a five cached xfce desktop icons.21:36
fazzahrwp, oh, how is that so?21:36
rwpIn my case there is nothing that that is more than old cache files that would not create any problem.21:36
rwpfazzah, Every part of the screensaver and Firefox and everything points fingers for the blame at the other parties.21:37
rwpAnd I can say this here but not in other channels...  systemd is also involved and being very opinionated it is also causing problems with screensavers.21:37
rwpThankfully we don't need to worry about that particular breakage.21:37
fazzahare there solutions? it's not convenient when watching a football game...21:38
rwpI did a quick search and found this 7 year old reference: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/98720721:38
nemorwp: wait wut?21:38
nemorwp: systemd has problems with... screensavers?21:38
fsmithredturn the screensaver off21:38
rwpAlso this reference. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/117222/disabling-xscreensaver-when-firefox-is-playing-htm5-video21:38
nemoah21:38
fsmithredyou can use the power manager to save power21:39
rwpI am not running a screensaver or screen locker and therefore I do not personally have a problem with it locking while playing videos.21:39
rwpnemo, Last rant I remember was from jwz (who else?) who ranted about how systemd had broken things.21:39
fsmithredplus screensavers that do anything other than blank the screen are a waste of energy, so you should feel guilty about using them21:39
nemohttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811261  ← this definitely works at home though21:40
rwpnemo, Reference: https://www.jwz.org/blog/2020/12/xscreensaver-5-45/21:40
nemoI watch full length movies in firefox with the kids all the time21:40
nemofsmithred: heh. our screensaver at home is slideshow. it runs for about 15 minutes and often provides family entertainment/happiness21:40
nemoso no guilt here 😝21:40
nemothen screen powers off21:40
nemoit's kind of like a spontaneous family photo album pause21:41
fsmithredsounds nice21:41
fsmithredI used to run a screensaver to help heat the room21:42
nemowow. that systemd behaviour is pretty wtf21:42
rwpnemo, It's not really surprising that jwz ranted about something.  I was more shocked that he actually had nice things to say about something.  (VLC in this case.)21:42
nemowell. vlc is pretty awesome21:43
rwpvlc is pretty excellent.  Although mostly I find myself using mpv most of the time.21:43
rwpBut yes...  That systemd behavior is a classic WTF!  But perhaps more like, it's systemd so WCGW?21:44
nemoI *have* run into a problem with vlc on the family account on the living room chimæra that I haven't figured out yet21:44
nemofor some reason, if I close vlc, it stays open in background, hanging.21:44
nemonot all the time, but often enough. and result is that I can't launch it again until I run a killall -9 vlc21:45
nemoI tried blowing away all vlc settings that I could find on this account, but the problem simply returned again21:45
nemoI probably should talk to them about it instead of resorting to kills21:45
fsmithredI used to have a special button on the panel with the command 'pkill vlc'21:46
fsmithredworked great21:46
fsmithredor maybe it was pkill -9 vlc21:46
fsmithredI think that was back in jessie21:47
fsmithredso, not a new problem21:47
nemointersting21:50
nemo+e21:50
nemook. so if it isn't a new problem, maybe VLC is aware of it and has more info21:50
nemofsmithred: I thought maybe it was related to running it as an applet or something but doesn't seem to be21:51
nemofsmithred: I'm thinking for family's sake I'll just make a VLC wrapper that runs kill first. They never launch 2 videos at once anyway21:51
Guest60so if my sources.list says merged beowulf main should i just change it to merged chimaera main21:53
fsmithredGuest60, yes, then update and upgrade21:54
Guest60alright21:54
fsmithredfor chimaera you only need one line21:54
fsmithredthere's no -security or -updates21:54
Guest60ok21:54
fsmithredif you have just a base system, it should go well21:54
fsmithredif you have a desktop, you may run into some difficulties21:55
Guest60should i get rid of the de then?21:55
fsmithredwhat do you have?21:55
Guest60xfce21:55
fsmithredand did you select the desktop from the installer?21:55
Guest60there wasn't an option given in refracta21:56
fsmithredtask-xfce-desktop, desktop-base might not be ready21:56
fsmithreddevuan-live or actual Refracta iso?21:56
Guest60devuan-live21:56
fsmithredso yeah, you have the task package21:56
fsmithredupgrade and see what happens21:56
Guest60alright21:56
fsmithredif it gets removed you can install it again21:57
Guest60yeah21:57
fsmithredhm21:57
fsmithredcan always try it with --simulate21:57
fsmithredfor future reference, if you want to run testing, it's easier to just install the base, upgrade, then add the desktop. It goes a lot faster that way.21:58
fsmithredbut you don't get that choice with the live21:58
Guest60yeah i'll run simulate first21:59

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