johnny222 | Just wondering how would I organize my sources.list to upgrade from Beowulf to Chimaera | 22:14 |
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jonadab | First, use a Beowulf sources.list and do apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade to ensure you are on the current latest Beowulf. | 22:21 |
jonadab | Then change beowulf to chimaera, and the YOLO approach at this point is apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade; be advised that it is not a good idea to do this blind on a production system. | 22:22 |
jonadab | Upgrading in this fashion works about 80% of the time in my experience. | 22:22 |
jonadab | That's without-a-hitch works. | 22:22 |
johnny222 | For everything even the deb src ones | 22:23 |
johnny222 | Or do I put "testing" in place of beowulf | 22:23 |
jonadab | Yes, just replace all instances of "beowulf" with "chimaera". | 22:23 |
johnny222 | Will do | 22:23 |
jonadab | You can also put testing yes. | 22:23 |
johnny222 | It works the same though right | 22:23 |
jonadab | The semantic difference is that when chimaera becomes stable, having "chimaera" will leave you on chimaera at that point. | 22:23 |
jonadab | Whereas, when chimaera becomes stable there'll be a new testing, and having "testing" will move you to it. | 22:24 |
jonadab | Right now, it'll be the same. When chimaera goes stable, then it matters. | 22:24 |
johnny222 | Do I leave the links untouched or do I change it from /merged to /devuan | 22:24 |
johnny222 | I just saw a difference looking at the devuan website | 22:25 |
jonadab | Not 100% sure on that; I would probably leave it unchanged. | 22:25 |
fsmithred | not a good idea to use "testing" in sources.list | 22:25 |
fsmithred | use codenames. When bullseye goes stable and chimaera is still testing, you will want to be using codenames. | 22:25 |
johnny222 | Alright | 22:25 |
jonadab | True for most people. | 22:25 |
fsmithred | use merged | 22:25 |
fsmithred | if you use /devuan you will only have access to around 200 packages | 22:26 |
jonadab | There are people who just want certain systems to always be on testing. But if that's what you want, you probably *know* that's what you want. | 22:26 |
johnny222 | And also anything I have to do with keyrings after the dist upgrade | 22:26 |
fsmithred | also comment out chimaera-security and chimaera-updates | 22:27 |
jonadab | For most releases, the new keyring packages should be installed along with everything else. When there are *new* relevant keyring packages (which has happened in some past Debian releases), then you have to install them. | 22:27 |
fsmithred | they don't exist yet | 22:27 |
fsmithred | newest keyring is 2017 I think | 22:27 |
fsmithred | you should have it unless you're on an old jessie that never got upgraded | 22:28 |
jonadab | Right, they should be upgraded when the new versions come out, in most cases; but occasionally an entirely new keyring package is added for one reason or another. | 22:28 |
fsmithred | I think we did that once | 22:28 |
jonadab | e.g., the Devuan keyring when making the transition to Devuan. | 22:28 |
jonadab | I think that's the most recent one I remember. | 22:28 |
johnny222 | Wait should I keep Beowulf-security commented in | 22:29 |
fsmithred | after you change beowulf to chimaera in sources.list | 22:29 |
fsmithred | you will only need one line | 22:29 |
fsmithred | and it will be that way until chimaera is released as stable | 22:30 |
fsmithred | then you can uncomment the -security and -update lines | 22:30 |
jonadab | Ah. | 22:30 |
jonadab | I'd forgotten that wrinkle; it's been a while since I ran a pre-release version. | 22:30 |
johnny222 | So basically update the regular deb ones with chimaera, put chimaera in place of the deb-src ones but # comment them out | 22:31 |
fsmithred | there's another wrinkle if you're starting with a fresh beowulf install | 22:31 |
jonadab | (For a while I ran old-oldstable, until I entirely gave up on the last vestiges of Gnome that I was still using, apart from Gimp.) | 22:31 |
fsmithred | when you run apt update, you have to tell it "yes" when it complains about the suite moving from testing to stable | 22:32 |
fsmithred | because we made the release isos before the repo was changed to account for the new release | 22:32 |
fsmithred | oops. | 22:32 |
johnny222 | Was I correct in my last message? | 22:32 |
johnny222 | Just double checking | 22:32 |
fsmithred | if you do apt-get update, you don't get to answer "yes" and it's confusing. | 22:33 |
fsmithred | I use sed to replace every instance of beowulf with chimaera | 22:33 |
johnny222 | By update I just meant change the text in sources | 22:33 |
fsmithred | and then comment out -update and -security | 22:33 |
johnny222 | I have -updates | 22:33 |
* jonadab uses M-x replace-string | 22:33 | |
fsmithred | I usually comment out the deb-src lines too. Most people aren't going to pull sources and build packages | 22:33 |
fsmithred | M-x? Is that midnight-commander? | 22:34 |
jonadab | M-x means you hold down the meta key and press X. In Emacs. | 22:34 |
fsmithred | oh | 22:34 |
johnny222 | Da meta key | 22:34 |
johnny222 | I don't have one | 22:34 |
fsmithred | lol. The only true editor is nano. | 22:34 |
jonadab | On most PC keyboards, alt is meta. | 22:35 |
johnny222 | Yess | 22:35 |
johnny222 | Or u can map caps to ESC/meta | 22:35 |
fsmithred | johnny222, what desktop are you running? | 22:38 |
johnny222 | Like de right now | 22:40 |
johnny222 | Xfce4 | 22:40 |
fsmithred | ok | 22:40 |
fsmithred | not sure how that goes if you installed the desktop from the installer. | 22:40 |
johnny222 | I used netinstall | 22:40 |
fsmithred | yeah, and at the tasksel window, was devuan-desktop and xfce4 both checked, or did you install a base system and add stuff after first reboot? | 22:41 |
fsmithred | stuff=desktop | 22:41 |
johnny222 | I did a base system on openrc | 22:42 |
* jonadab generally installs as little as possible prior to having a bootable running system. | 22:43 | |
jonadab | I want to get to that point as quickly as possible, so I can then run my install-all-the-things script. | 22:43 |
jonadab | IN the background, in a screen session, via ssh. | 22:43 |
johnny222 | Actually no I did leave the default xfce de | 22:43 |
johnny222 | But afterwards I installed DWM some place but didn't really enjoy it | 22:44 |
fsmithred | I think you'll be ok. Looks like task-xfce-desktop has been devuanized in chimaera/ceres | 22:44 |
johnny222 | Nice | 22:44 |
fsmithred | looks like the only difference in dependencies has to do with libreoffice | 22:45 |
fsmithred | and it's a Recommends, so you could even exclude it if necessary. | 22:45 |
fsmithred | this is scary. beowulf has libreoffice-gtk2 and chimaera has libreoffice-gtk3. | 22:46 |
johnny222 | Is it a bad idea to use debian sources on devuan | 22:47 |
fsmithred | I haven't tried the new one yet, but based on other gtk3 escapades, I'd say it has the chance of being a real nightmare. | 22:47 |
fsmithred | yes, bad idea | 22:47 |
fsmithred | the way our repo works is that we merge debian repo with ours | 22:47 |
fsmithred | and we filter the packages that require systemd | 22:47 |
fsmithred | and replace them with our devuanized versions | 22:47 |
fsmithred | if you use debian sources, you might bypass the filter | 22:48 |
fsmithred | if you need third-party software, it's safer to download the debs rather than add their repo. | 22:48 |
johnny222 | Is there devuan nonfree | 22:53 |
johnny222 | I'm guessing yes | 22:53 |
johnny222 | How's OpenOffice compared to gtk3 libreoffice | 22:56 |
* jonadab is still using OpenOffice simply due to never seeing a reason to switch. | 23:14 | |
sadsnork | jonadab: Do you know if the current version of OpenOffice will work without JRE? | 23:20 |
jonadab | OpenOffice hasn't required Java for years. | 23:21 |
sadsnork | Or if it is possible to install only writer and calc? | 23:21 |
jonadab | That I don't know. | 23:21 |
johnny222 | switching from stable to testing, is it just apt upgrade or apt dist-upgrade like Debian | 23:21 |
jonadab | That stuff works the same in Devuan as in Debian. | 23:22 |
sadsnork | Strange, it is listed on their system requirements page: https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html | 23:22 |
jonadab | sadsnork: I think there's an obscure feature somewhere or another that doesn't work without it. | 23:22 |
jonadab | But you don't actually need it. | 23:22 |
sadsnork | Based on the description it *may* be accessibility only. | 23:23 |
sadsnork | Thanks for letting me know it works without it though. :-) | 23:23 |
sadsnork | Oh, this explains a little better: http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html | 23:24 |
sadsnork | Looks like it is Base and "special functionality" for other components. | 23:24 |
gnarface | well, the libreoffice components in the repos currently are packaged separately | 23:25 |
gnarface | i think the openoffice ones were too but i can't recall for sure | 23:25 |
gnarface | so i'm pretty sure you can just install writer and calc | 23:25 |
sadsnork | Thank gnarface, I think the ".deb" download is a .tar.gz with multiple .debs inside it for the components. | 23:28 |
sadsnork | I'm downloading it now. :-) | 23:28 |
Guest10711 | Hello, I need help, installing Devuan 64 on amd laptop and cant startx | 23:43 |
Guest10711 | terminated error 11 | 23:44 |
Guest10711 | managed to Vim the sources.list and run all updates | 23:44 |
gnarface | Guest10711: find the xorg log | 23:46 |
gnarface | Guest10711: it's usually in /usr/log/ or ~/.local/share/xorg/ | 23:46 |
Guest10711 | Ok, I should add that I have to change the tty to get to this point, it actyally hangs during Ipv6 addcong (netdev_change) eth0 | 23:54 |
Guest10711 | it only sgows that much in recovery mode | 23:55 |
Guest10711 | live usb stuck at same point | 23:55 |
gnarface | interesting | 23:56 |
Guest10711 | This laptop is lowend amd-apu radeon r3 | 23:57 |
Guest10711 | im committed to free only sources | 23:58 |
gnarface | we need to see the contents of that xorg log | 23:58 |
Guest10711 | can u remind me live root pass?? | 23:58 |
gnarface | i think it's toor | 23:58 |
Guest10711 | oh right! | 23:59 |
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