libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2021-02-02

johnny222Just wondering how would I organize my sources.list to upgrade from Beowulf to Chimaera22:14
jonadabFirst, use a Beowulf sources.list and do apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade to ensure you are on the current latest Beowulf.22:21
jonadabThen change beowulf to chimaera, and the YOLO approach at this point is apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade; be advised that it is not a good idea to do this blind on a production system.22:22
jonadabUpgrading in this fashion works about 80% of the time in my experience.22:22
jonadabThat's without-a-hitch works.22:22
johnny222For everything even the deb src ones22:23
johnny222Or do I put "testing" in place of beowulf22:23
jonadabYes, just replace all instances of "beowulf" with "chimaera".22:23
johnny222Will do22:23
jonadabYou can also put testing yes.22:23
johnny222It works the same though right22:23
jonadabThe semantic difference is that when chimaera becomes stable, having "chimaera" will leave you on chimaera at that point.22:23
jonadabWhereas, when chimaera becomes stable there'll be a new testing, and having "testing" will move you to it.22:24
jonadabRight now, it'll be the same.  When chimaera goes stable, then it matters.22:24
johnny222Do I leave the links untouched or do I change it from /merged to /devuan22:24
johnny222I just saw a difference looking at the devuan website22:25
jonadabNot 100% sure on that; I would probably leave it unchanged.22:25
fsmithrednot a good idea to use "testing" in sources.list22:25
fsmithreduse codenames. When bullseye goes stable and chimaera is still testing, you will want to be using codenames.22:25
johnny222Alright22:25
jonadabTrue for most people.22:25
fsmithreduse merged22:25
fsmithredif you use /devuan you will only have access to around 200 packages22:26
jonadabThere are people who just want certain systems to always be on testing.  But if that's what you want, you probably *know* that's what you want.22:26
johnny222And also anything I have to do with keyrings after the dist upgrade22:26
fsmithredalso comment out chimaera-security and chimaera-updates22:27
jonadabFor most releases, the new keyring packages should be installed along with everything else.  When there are *new* relevant keyring packages (which has happened in some past Debian releases), then you have to install them.22:27
fsmithredthey don't exist yet22:27
fsmithrednewest keyring is 2017 I think22:27
fsmithredyou should have it unless you're on an old jessie that never got upgraded22:28
jonadabRight, they should be upgraded when the new versions come out, in most cases; but occasionally an entirely new keyring package is added for one reason or another.22:28
fsmithredI think we did that once22:28
jonadabe.g., the Devuan keyring when making the transition to Devuan.22:28
jonadabI think that's the most recent one I remember.22:28
johnny222Wait should I keep Beowulf-security commented in22:29
fsmithredafter you change beowulf to chimaera in sources.list22:29
fsmithredyou will only need one line22:29
fsmithredand it will be that way until chimaera is released as stable22:30
fsmithredthen you can uncomment the -security and -update lines22:30
jonadabAh.22:30
jonadabI'd forgotten that wrinkle; it's been a while since I ran a pre-release version.22:30
johnny222So basically update the regular deb ones with chimaera, put chimaera in place of the deb-src ones but # comment them out22:31
fsmithredthere's another wrinkle if you're starting with a fresh beowulf install22:31
jonadab(For a while I ran old-oldstable, until I entirely gave up on the last vestiges of Gnome that I was still using, apart from Gimp.)22:31
fsmithredwhen you run apt update, you have to tell it "yes" when it complains about the suite moving from testing to stable22:32
fsmithredbecause we made the release isos before the repo was changed to account for the new release22:32
fsmithredoops.22:32
johnny222Was I correct in my last message?22:32
johnny222Just double checking22:32
fsmithredif you do apt-get update, you don't get to answer "yes" and it's confusing.22:33
fsmithredI use sed to replace every instance of beowulf with chimaera22:33
johnny222By update I just meant change the text in sources22:33
fsmithredand then comment out -update and -security22:33
johnny222I have -updates22:33
* jonadab uses M-x replace-string22:33
fsmithredI usually comment out the deb-src lines too. Most people aren't going to pull sources and build packages22:33
fsmithredM-x? Is that midnight-commander?22:34
jonadabM-x means you hold down the meta key and press X.  In Emacs.22:34
fsmithredoh22:34
johnny222Da meta key22:34
johnny222I don't have one22:34
fsmithredlol. The only true editor is nano.22:34
jonadabOn most PC keyboards, alt is meta.22:35
johnny222Yess22:35
johnny222Or u can map caps to ESC/meta22:35
fsmithredjohnny222, what desktop are you running?22:38
johnny222Like de right now22:40
johnny222Xfce422:40
fsmithredok22:40
fsmithrednot sure how that goes if you installed the desktop from the installer.22:40
johnny222I used netinstall22:40
fsmithredyeah, and at the tasksel window, was devuan-desktop and xfce4 both checked, or did you install a base system and add stuff after first reboot?22:41
fsmithredstuff=desktop22:41
johnny222I did a base system on openrc22:42
* jonadab generally installs as little as possible prior to having a bootable running system.22:43
jonadabI want to get to that point as quickly as possible, so I can then run my install-all-the-things script.22:43
jonadabIN the background, in a screen session, via ssh.22:43
johnny222Actually no I did leave the default xfce de22:43
johnny222But afterwards I installed DWM some place but didn't really enjoy it22:44
fsmithredI think you'll be ok. Looks like task-xfce-desktop has been devuanized in chimaera/ceres22:44
johnny222Nice22:44
fsmithredlooks like the only difference in dependencies has to do with libreoffice22:45
fsmithredand it's a Recommends, so you could even exclude it if necessary.22:45
fsmithredthis is scary. beowulf has libreoffice-gtk2 and chimaera has libreoffice-gtk3.22:46
johnny222Is it a bad idea to use debian sources on devuan22:47
fsmithredI haven't tried the new one yet, but based on other gtk3 escapades, I'd say it has the chance of being a real nightmare.22:47
fsmithredyes, bad idea22:47
fsmithredthe way our repo works is that we merge debian repo with ours22:47
fsmithredand we filter the packages that require systemd22:47
fsmithredand replace them with our devuanized versions22:47
fsmithredif you use debian sources, you might bypass the filter22:48
fsmithredif you need third-party software, it's safer to download the debs rather than add their repo.22:48
johnny222Is there devuan nonfree22:53
johnny222I'm guessing yes22:53
johnny222How's OpenOffice compared to gtk3 libreoffice22:56
* jonadab is still using OpenOffice simply due to never seeing a reason to switch.23:14
sadsnorkjonadab: Do you know if the current version of OpenOffice will work without JRE?23:20
jonadabOpenOffice hasn't required Java for years.23:21
sadsnorkOr if it is possible to install only writer and calc?23:21
jonadabThat I don't know.23:21
johnny222switching from stable to testing, is it just apt upgrade or apt dist-upgrade like Debian23:21
jonadabThat stuff works the same in Devuan as in Debian.23:22
sadsnorkStrange, it is listed on their system requirements page: https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html23:22
jonadabsadsnork: I think there's an obscure feature somewhere or another that doesn't work without it.23:22
jonadabBut you don't actually need it.23:22
sadsnorkBased on the description it *may* be accessibility only.23:23
sadsnorkThanks for letting me know it works without it though. :-)23:23
sadsnorkOh, this explains a little better: http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html23:24
sadsnorkLooks like it is Base and "special functionality" for other components.23:24
gnarfacewell, the libreoffice components in the repos currently are packaged separately23:25
gnarfacei think the openoffice ones were too but i can't recall for sure23:25
gnarfaceso i'm pretty sure you can just install writer and calc23:25
sadsnorkThank gnarface, I think the ".deb" download is a .tar.gz with multiple .debs inside it for the components.23:28
sadsnorkI'm downloading it now. :-)23:28
Guest10711Hello, I need help, installing Devuan 64 on amd laptop and cant startx23:43
Guest10711terminated error 1123:44
Guest10711managed to Vim the sources.list and run all updates23:44
gnarfaceGuest10711: find the xorg log23:46
gnarfaceGuest10711: it's usually in /usr/log/ or ~/.local/share/xorg/23:46
Guest10711Ok, I should add that I have to change the tty to get to this point, it actyally hangs during Ipv6 addcong (netdev_change) eth023:54
Guest10711it only sgows that much in recovery mode23:55
Guest10711live usb stuck at same point23:55
gnarfaceinteresting23:56
Guest10711This laptop is lowend amd-apu radeon r323:57
Guest10711im committed to free only sources23:58
gnarfacewe need to see the contents of that xorg log23:58
Guest10711can u remind me live root pass??23:58
gnarfacei think it's toor23:58
Guest10711oh right!23:59

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