libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2021-02-23

kali__hi00:14
SofiHi. I am trying to use openrc with Beowulf, and after a new install `rc-service` issnt found under either my user account or root. And im not sure if im the one doing anything wrong. `rc-status` works fine.01:13
gnarfaceSofi: not sure but i think you just use regular "service" ... the inherited debian openrc install still relies on sysvinit to actually start and stop stuff01:29
Sofignarface: I do think i might have messed up more than just rc-service. As not even reboot/restart are valid commands.01:30
gnarfaceSofi: they may simply be in a non-default package01:30
gnarfaceSofi: make sure you have the sysvinit-core package01:31
gnarfaceSofi: oh... heh.  also, it might be there but just not in your default path anymore.  for stupid reasons, they removed /sbin and /usr/sbin from root's default path01:34
gnarface(would only affect fresh installs, not upgrades from before01:34
gnarface)01:34
SofiIt is installed. Used the default netinstall of 3.1.0. Installed only the needed packages to get a bootable system and installed `gnome-core`. I do feel like my step of installing gnome-core might be the culprit.01:34
SofiIll look at the default paths01:34
SofiAs it does feel like that as a bunch of stuff is missing01:34
SofiYeah its in /sbin/ and its just not in the path...01:37
gnarfacei think you want to change /etc/login.defs01:39
gnarfacecompared to an older version the difference will be obvious01:40
gnarfacei think there might have been one other place you need to change it01:40
* ifdown has just re-installed the OS and asks which BIOS and GUI for QEMU are overall the best.11:28
xinomilopersonally i use libvirt/virt-manager but there are other GUIs too.. you can also search the forum, there was a discussion someplace iirc.11:48
* ifdown thanks!12:21
parsiplohi, I'm very interested about this sysd-free project and I was wondering about getting a 4g image for an old computer whih is offline. Seing that on the site devuan.org there is several choices from net install to live-desk but I couldn't find that very big iso. Being that is far from me to cause bandwith over consumption I just simply wish to know if it is still available, and where, that 4g iso full desktop. Thankks15:13
parsiplo hi, I'm very interested about this sysd-free project and I was wondering about getting a 4g image for an old computer whih is offline. Seing that on the site devuan.org there is several choices from net install to live-desk but I couldn't find that very big iso. Being that is far from me to cause bandwith over consumption I just simply wish to know if it is still available, and where, that 4g iso full desktop. Thankks15:14
fsmithredhttps://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/15:15
parsiplothanks very much I've somehow missed that for a glance. Bye!!! I'll take a ride with that15:18
eyalrozgnarface: Around?21:01
eyalrozAnyway, question for anyone interested: What's making my pulseaudio settings get reset (to invalid values) every once in a while?21:01
golinuxLennart is sticking pins into a voodoo doll?21:02
gnarfaceeyalroz: i really don't know, that one is new to me.  i don't actually use pulseaudio here.21:05
masoneyalroz: I used to see that. PA would corrupt its own binary state and I'd have to kill it and erase the state before restarting.21:05
eyalrozmason: That's not quite it. I mean, it changes the "built-in audio profile" to a different setting, every once in a while21:06
eyalrozmaybe it's even triggered by some routine events, I can't say.21:06
masoneyalroz: Yeah, it's sort of opaque that way. Over here, I stopped using it entirely.21:06
eyalrozmason: https://9to5linux.com/systemd-free-devuan-gnu-linux-3-1-distro-released-for-freedom-lovers21:07
eyalrozHave a look at the paragraph about "debian-pulseaudio-config-override"21:07
gnarfaceeyalroz: giving it the benefit of the doubt for having some plausible excuse for doing this, maybe what is happening is some other program you run has somehow "cached" or managed to somehow else persist the pulseaudio settings it was using last time it launched?  just guessing21:08
masoneyalroz: Yeah. If you look, there's a config with a single line to change, and that's all that override does. Fairly simple to test.21:08
eyalrozIs that the autospawn thing?21:09
fsmithredeyalroz, look in /etc/pulse/client.conf.d21:09
fsmithredyes21:09
eyalrozMaybe I'll write the maintainer.21:10
fsmithredI'm guessing it's unrelated to your problem21:10
fsmithredwhat do you want to know about it?21:10
eyalrozfsmithred: I meant I'll ask him if he knows why my settings may be getting reset...21:10
fsmithredthe version of that package in chimaera replaces the autospawn file with one that enables it instead of disables it21:10
fsmithredour version just deletes the file. Same effect.21:11
eyalrozif he knows about autospawning, maybe he knows about other periodic phenomena21:11
fsmithredif it's Mark, I will guess that he doesn't know the answer21:11
eyalrozMark Hindley21:11
fsmithredI don't think he's a PA expert. He knows packaging very well.21:11
* eyalroz mutters hunder his breath21:12
fsmithredspeaking of settings re-setting themselves...21:12
fsmithredthere's a discussion about this happening in mate with some desktop settings21:13
fsmithredso maybe it's a new thing21:13
fsmithredit wouldn't surprise me21:13
fsmithreddo we know where the settings are stored?21:14
fsmithredany chance it's a plain text file?21:14
fsmithredmake a change and see what files under .config were just edited21:15
fsmithredeyalroz, what settings did you change?21:29
eyalrozfsmithred: Just the "Built-in Audio" profile21:29
eyalrozvia pavucontrol21:29
fsmithredah, ok. I'm changing it to Analog Stereo Output21:29
fsmithredok .config/pulse/...-default-soure and -default-sink changed21:30
eyalrozfsmithred: Me too, basically. Except that are dozens of options which fit that description.21:30
fsmithredI haven't looked yet, but I'm gonna bet that they are binary files21:31
eyalrozBy the way, do you know why rtkit-demon might be spamming my logs? "Supervising N threads of M processes of 1 users."21:32
fsmithredoh, even better. They contain 1 byte, and I can't see it in my pager21:32
numzobcat <file> | xxd | less21:32
nemoeyalroz: if you ever figure that out. drives me bonkers too21:33
fsmithredwhat's xxd?21:33
nemofsmithred: hex escape21:33
fsmithredanyone know what rtkit is?21:33
eyalrozfsmithred: I think it's a hex viewer21:33
numzobshows file (or input) as hex21:33
nemofsmithred: I used it a lot with untrusted content or to find invisible characters21:33
numzobmight be part of the vi package21:33
nemoor bad unicode21:33
eyalrozfsmithred: "RealtimeKit is a D-Bus system service that changes the scheduling policy of user processes/threads to SCHED_RR (i.e. realtime scheduling mode) on request. It is intended to be used as a secure mechanism to allow real-time scheduling to be used by normal user processes. "21:34
fsmithred00000000: 0a21:34
numzoblinefeed21:34
eyalrozfsmithred: You're the proud owner of a newline :-)21:34
numzob0a is a linefeed.  so, one line textfile21:34
fsmithredlol21:34
numzobhey, now you know21:34
nemoeyalroz: current problems with pulseaudio... ① a number of games that use Unity insist on the HDMI output from the TV even though it is much crappier than the computer's analog sound.  I can't get them to change this even if I start the game with the TV HDMI sink disabled.  oddly menu sound effects play, but not music.21:34
masonUseful: man ascii21:34
nemoeyalroz: ② The analog sound always shows up as "disabled" in the menu.21:35
numzobmason: word21:35
eyalroznemo: But I don't run any games. Not to mention how my monitor doesn't support audio...21:35
nemoeyalroz: ③ The TV HDMI randomly re-enables itself. I haven't figured out why. Possibly due to TV powering on and off? But it seems to happen even without that.  I wish I could set it to not autostart21:35
eyalroznemo: Ah, yes!21:35
eyalrozThat could be it21:35
fsmithredeyalroz, do you need PA?21:35
eyalrozmonitor power-off, then monitor power-on...21:36
eyalrozwhen I'm AFK for a while, it goes to sleep21:36
eyalrozfsmithred: No, I just need my audio to work in all/almost all apps.21:36
nemoeyalroz: I only want to ever manually enable it. and I'd probably *never* enable it if I could figure out how to fix ①21:36
nemothe sound quality is much worse21:36
fsmithrednemo, switching order of sound cards doesn't help?21:36
eyalrozfsmithred: Probably not, because the on-board audio is the first on my system, and stays the first.21:37
nemofsmithred: I'm not very clueful as to how one does that. I tried messing around in PA conf, and just broke everything after copying and pasting some lines from a stackoverflow or ubuntu questions21:37
nemofsmithred: so I just gave up21:37
nemofsmithred: I'd love it there was a way to persist changes in pavucontrol21:37
nemolike export to a file to copy system-wide21:37
fsmithredoh, I've only done it in alsa.21:37
fsmithredPA is supposed to be exactly for solving the problem of multiple sound cards21:37
nemooh. and ofc rebooting resets eeeeverything21:37
eyalrozfsmithred: Maybe Devuan should also adopt a "no pulseaudio" policy, on account of it being a little too systemd-like...21:37
nemoheh21:37
eyalrozI'm only half-joking...21:38
fsmithredI would not try to argue that PA is systemd-like21:38
eyalrozhey, binary configuration files and takes over stuff :-(21:38
fsmithredbut it does seem to be, uh....21:38
gnarfaceeyalroz: i just had a thought.  try disabling auto-mute mode in alsamixer and pavucontrol21:38
fsmithreda problem application21:38
eyalrozgnarface: Where is "auto mute mode"?21:39
eyalrozin pavucontrol21:39
fsmithredwe've had a fair number of requests and questions about why PA is installed by default and can we fix that to be otherwise.21:39
eyalrozfsmithred: Isn't it installed by default becaun Debian installs it by default?21:40
gnarfaceeyalroz: if it's actually changing profiles from jack hotplug or device power state changes, i've seen that with auto-mute mode in alsamixer.  i think pavucontrol might have duplicated the functionality so you will have to turn off both21:40
eyalrozgnarface: Also, where is auto-mute in alsamixergui ?21:40
fsmithredsort of. I forget which package pulls it in.21:40
fsmithredxfce4 depends xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin which recommends pulseaudio21:41
gnarfaceeyalroz: it should be in the playback tab... called "Auto-Mute Mode" just a on/off toggle like the S/PDIF ones21:41
eyalrozgnarface: Ah, found it in text mode alsamixer21:41
eyalrozit's enabled for my on-board audio21:41
gnarfaceeyalroz: i think pavucontrol has the same thing but called something else.  you'll have to look.21:42
gnarfaceeyalroz: i disable it because even if you know what it's doing and when, false-fires still sabotage it21:42
gnarface(but also, as soon as they added it i was like "wtf?! i didn't ask for this!"21:43
gnarface)21:43
eyalrozgnarface: ... it doesn't exist in my pavucontrol, at all.21:43
gnarfaceeyalroz: i can't be sure it's not a config file option they don't expose in the gui, but i also can't be sure it shows up for all hardware21:43
fsmithredI don't see it, either21:43
gnarfaceeyalroz: (my pulseaudio experience is largely based on hearsay from providing support to it tangentially in #alsa)21:44
eyalrozgnarface: I understand... and am very appreciative of your help.21:44
gnarfaceeyalroz: if it stops changing volume levels when you plug/unplug stuff you got the important one21:45
fsmithredoh, it's not in alsamixer either. Not using real hardware here.21:45
eyalrozgnarface: I haven't had trouble with volumne level changes.21:45
gnarfaceyea, even in alsamixer it is something not all hardware supports21:45
gnarfaceeyalroz: well i'm meaning mute/unmute too21:45
eyalrozgnarface: that's not a problem either.21:45
eyalrozIt's just the switching of where audio goes.21:46
gnarfaceeyalroz: i'm presuming if you actually analyze alsamixer after you see the pulseaudio state changes, you'll see alsmixer state changes occurred too21:46
eyalroz... I'm 95% sure that's not the same thing.21:46
gnarfaceeyalroz: if not, then you're right and this is probably something whack with pulseaudio that is unrelated21:46
gnarfaceeyalroz: do you have avahi-daemon running too?21:46
eyalrozgnarface: yes21:47
gnarfacei think avahi could be the culprit as well21:47
gnarfacein fact that's the first thing i'd test if you don't actually need avahi21:48
gnarfacesee if it stops misbehaving if avahi is not running21:48
gnarfacei pitched that one overboard on the same day as pulseaudio, actually21:48
gnarfaceyou might want to ask in #pulseaudio21:49
gnarfacemaybe they know something21:49
gnarfacepulseaudio is one of those projects that likes to pretend their config files really don't need manual intervention, but from what i've seen in here they frequently do21:52
gnarfacei could help you learn how to do without it easier than i could help you fix it21:52
numzoblike Windows  ;)21:52
eyalrozgnarface: What would I need avahi for? Is it an HW plug-in detector and event launcher?21:55
eyalrozI wonder which other projects behave this way...21:56
fsmithredI think the job of avahi is to announce to the world that your computer is available21:57
fsmithredfinds and announces services, doesn't it?21:58
gnarfaceeyalroz: yes, it's like auto-mute mode for your ethernet jacks.  as horrifying as that is on its own, i can't be sure off the top of my head it can't touch other stuff.  there's a nebulous crossover between what constitutes an "audio devices" vs a "network device" when it comes to hdmi, usb, and firewire.21:58
fsmithredok, why would a bootloader be dependend on pulseaudio?21:58
gnarfacefsmithred: yes it's an open source implementation of Apple's Bonjour protocols21:58
gnarfacefsmithred: (aiui)21:58
fsmithredau revoir21:58
fsmithredremoving PA wants to remove shim-signed and some other related stuff21:59
eyalrozfsmithred: if you're asking that question then it must be grub?22:09
fsmithredDescription: Secure Boot chain-loading bootloader (Microsoft-signed binary)22:11
fsmithred This package provides a minimalist boot loader22:11
fsmithreddepends on grub-efi-amd64-bin22:11
gnarfacefsmithred: wait, so they for real made you require pulseaudio to boot from efi, or is that just a devuan package mistake?22:33
fsmithredgnarface, it's not in any packages that we fork22:42
fsmithredthat would have been removed with pulseaudio22:44
ricardo_Hi all, I have a question. I need firmware for my wifi, it is intel iwm-9000. The package on Debian is iwm-firmware-20191022p1.tgz I tried adding this package with a USB during the Devuan install, but it didn't install it. What is the Devuan equivalent nonfree firmware package for the iwm-9000 wifi chip?23:02
fsmithredricardo_, we don't fork any of the firmware packages, so they should all be the same ones that are in debian23:16
fsmithredI think you want firmware-iwlwifi23:17
fsmithredif so, it should get installed if you need it. You should not need to put it on a usb.23:18
fsmithredthere's a newer one in beowulf-backports if the one in beowulf is not new enough23:25
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