libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2021-04-04

linearainwell i tried converting my buster 10.1 to devuan 3.0.0 on a test system and it was a complete mess. At one point it asked me if i want to delete the kernel? hundreds of packages removed and upgraded etc. I'm not a fan of upgrades and updates and all that stuff. I like to use what I got and only upgrade it if it breaks. At least now I know the only option is to live with systemd or just install a fresh13:38
linearainsystemd-less OS on a different partition and then slowly decomission the old os partition lol13:38
ShorTiejust install a fresh is really the only option imho13:39
linearainyeah, debian sucks that it doesnt support normal init systems13:40
ShorTiethats the adavantage of playing arm in a way i guess13:41
linearainarm?13:42
ShorTie10 bucks gets you a new sdcard13:42
ShorTiefresh starts are cheap and easy .. :/~13:43
linearainbut sometimes its unconvenient when u have lots of files and configuration on a single filesystem13:44
gnarfacelinearain: if you know what you're doing that upgrade process still works.  it's easy to screw up, but it's actually possible to complete the upgrade as long as you know to install a kernel before the next time you reboot15:28
gnarfacesome tangled nest of dependencies meant that many of the replaced packages have to be removed before they can be replaced, and in some cases one of those packages becomes the running kernel15:30
gnarfacea fresh install is certainly easier15:30
gateway2000I have installed beowulf for the first time today and I am enjoying it so far15:43
AnkokukishiIm on refracta on both my desktop and laptop15:45
Ankokukishimy friend told me about refracta, tried it on one laptop, and when the mint devs cucked to a bunch of crybabies over chromium15:46
Ankokukishithat was my sign to go full in15:46
gateway2000whats a difference between devuan and refracta?15:47
Ankokukishirefracta is just a fork of devuan15:47
Ankokukishibasically the same thing, fsmithred is a devuan dev and decided to do his own thing with refracta15:48
gateway2000o ok nice15:48
Ankokukishii tried the main devuan distro once, i liked it but refracta is a tad lighter15:48
Ankokukishii think its like 50-100mb on ram lighter15:49
Ankokukishiplus it comes with refracta2usb, meaning you can write your current refracta settings to a USB and take your exact settings with you anywhere15:50
Ankokukishidevuan can install it, i heard of people on other distros using it too15:50
Ankokukishibut its built in with refracta15:50
Ankokukishii mean there arent THAT many differences between them, i just prefer refracta15:52
gateway2000sure whatever works15:53
Ankokukishiyeah15:53
Ankokukishiim happy as long as i dont have that garbage systemd in my os15:53
Ankokukishiswitching to devuan/refracta made me spend more time in the terminal, which is why i switched to linux in the first place for anyway15:54
Ankokukishiim old school, i was using dos 5.0 WAAAAAY back in the day lol15:55
Ankokukishifirst pc i ever used was in 1987, i think it was a mac (before apple bought them) with the green and black screens lol15:55
crashoverrideThe people who wrote RFC5322 should be locked into a room filling with concrete, that can only be open if they write a regular expression that can parse the format they described for email addresses. They should have 4h until the room is full of concrete.15:55
Ankokukishilol15:56
crashoverrideI mean... "space and "(),:;<>@[\] characters are allowed with restrictions (they are only allowed inside a quoted string, and in addition, a backslash or double-quote must be preceded by a backslash)"15:58
crashoverrideso you CAN have spaces in email addresses15:58
crashoverridebut it has to be "my super email address"@domain.com15:59
crashoverrideWHY was ever that a requirement?!15:59
Ankokukishiprobably because of microsoft?15:59
Ankokukishiconsidering it was the 90s, and we ALL know what happened in the 90s15:59
crashoverridesounds believable15:59
Ankokukishii mean if someone REALLY wanted to, couldnt they change the format and make something new?16:00
crashoverrideno.16:00
crashoverridethat's actually much harder.16:00
Ankokukishigah16:00
crashoverrideif you ever worked in a company who has a small product that has a HUGE technical debt, you'd know that :D16:01
crashoverride"can't we re-implement?"16:01
Ankokukishilol16:01
Ankokukishii havent, so i dont know that lol16:01
crashoverride"well, our customers have various versions of the product, with various different bugs and features combinations, so our backend is mixed javascript, visual basic, perl, prolog, ocaml and COBOL."16:02
Ankokukishiyuck16:03
Ankokukishijabbashit16:03
Ankokukishiim building a website for my friend in html/css only16:03
Ankokukishiand css is only for the look of the page16:04
Ankokukishii refuse to use jabbashit at all16:04
crashoverride"but by all means, if you want to re-implement that, AND DOCUMENT IT, you're welcome to do it. We just won't put it in production in the next 3 years because it has to be fully reviewed, and tested, and "we don't fix something that works"(tm); and also, you have to do it on your free time because we won't pay you to do that. And if still want to do it, you could look at the attempts from Oleg,16:05
crashoverrideFrancis, Tamal, Ekon and Brad. They all tried and failed."16:05
Ankokukishilol16:06
crashoverrideAlso, when you fix such a thing, you always have a customer who needed the feature16:07
crashoverridefor example, user.name(fromaccounting)@domain.com will be used by a dozen of people16:08
crashoverrideand they will all take many hours of customer support when you'll push your "fix"16:08
Ankokukishithats dumb16:09
crashoverrideand then there's THIS guy16:09
crashoverridehttps://xkcd.com/1172/16:09
Ankokukishicomputers used to be about innovation16:09
AnkokukishiLMAO16:09
crashoverrideAnkokukishi: you're new to this aren't you?16:10
crashoverride"computers used to be about innovation"16:10
crashoverridethat was true in the 70s16:10
crashoverridemaybe a bit in the early 80s16:10
Ankokukishigood point16:10
Ankokukishilol16:10
crashoverridebut when most of the traders realized they machines were helping them big time; innovation was just for the general public.16:11
crashoverrideand this, right here, is why COBOL is still big.16:11
crashoverrideLook16:12
crashoverridehttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/nuclear-weapons-floppy-disks.html16:12
crashoverridethis is from 201916:12
Ankokukishiew fake news website16:12
Ankokukishilol16:12
AnkokukishiHISS16:12
crashoverrideAnd then there's this: https://hackaday.com/2015/07/23/this-little-amiga-still-runs-school-districts-hvac/16:15
Ankokukishithat just means amiga 2000s are chad computers :)16:16
crashoverridemyeah16:17
crashoverrideanyway16:17
crashoverrideWhat we need is to:16:17
crashoverride1. formalize better specs, that are based on current ones but with more restrictive requirements16:17
crashoverride2. implement systems that support BOTH specs, while making an effort to slowly transition16:18
Ankokukishitrue16:18
crashoverride3. sunset the old specs, while progressively adding artificial execution delays to those techs16:19
crashoverride(and this last method is the most effective way. If you simply stop supporting it, people will complain. If you don't add delays, they will say "we will change" and never will)16:19
crashoverrideand that's it.16:19
crashoverrideyou never fully stop supporting the old techs, or... you can, when the artificial delay is over 50 years.16:20
crashoverrideand even then you should be careful, someone might just sue you.16:20
crashoverridebut yeah, that's about it.16:21
crashoverrideso login to your mail provider with your "email that really is so funny"@domain.com? Login accepted. With a notice tho, that the login is sunset.16:21
crashoverrideand as time passes, the login page will be slower and slower.16:21
buZzmy 2012 motorola phone runs modern devuan really nicely though :)16:22
crashoverrideeventually, you will surely go for email_that_really_is_so_funny@domain.com and login with no delay.16:22
buZzthanks to #maemo-leste team16:22
crashoverridebuZz: nice :)16:22
buZzhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_416:22
buZzhttps://leste.maemo.org/Motorola_Droid_416:22
buZz:)16:22
crashoverrideI should really get one of those.16:22
buZzthey're cheap if you're near US16:22
crashoverridesupports 4G man16:23
crashoverridebuZz: I'm smack in the middle of the EU16:23
crashoverrideso...16:23
buZzi dont think it support EU 4G16:23
buZzbut no clue, i dont really use cellular stuff16:23
buZzits just a PDA to me :)16:23
crashoverridewell, I need something that supports 4G16:23
crashoverrideand I would sell my soul for a physical keyboard.16:23
buZz'something' is easy16:24
Ankokukishiim in japan motorola doesnt exist here lol16:24
buZz'something with devuan'16:24
buZzis a lot harder16:24
crashoverridebuZz: actually I'm gonna put NetBSD on it.16:24
crashoverrideso... you know.16:24
buZzrofl16:24
buZzyou're not so troubled by lack of support then, nice16:25
crashoverridethe lack of what?16:25
buZzyou know, working drivers16:25
crashoverrideyou mean, my ability to copy paste code from freebsd? :D16:25
buZzor even booting :P16:25
crashoverridewhat's booting anyway?16:25
buZzif you never boot it, it cant crash either!16:25
crashoverridetrue systemd philosohpy.16:26
crashoverrideYou can get it for 40 bucks on amazon US tho16:26
crashoverridewow.16:26
buZzmine was funded by EU16:27
buZzor well, by NLNet who got their funding from EU afaik16:27
crashoverridefunded?16:27
crashoverridewhat do you mean?16:27
buZzmany EU govs want more opensource dev16:27
buZzthey fund good projects with money16:27
buZzmaemo leste project used funding to buy a pile of devices and distribute them amongst devs16:28
crashoverrideah yeah16:28
crashoverrideis the droid ultra similar?16:29
buZzno, completely different, see the specs16:29
buZzdroid 4 is very much alike the N90016:29
buZzbut more faster cores, more ram, etc16:29
crashoverrideah16:30
buZzmaemo leste obviously targets n900 ;) but also some other devices, like droid416:30
crashoverrideyeah16:30
buZzbtw plain devuan (and probably also some of those BSDs you mentioned) should work on n900 totally fine16:30
crashoverrideI know about the N900, but for this VERY reason, it's impossible to find.16:31
buZzreally? i got 3 and i barely tried16:31
crashoverridethe N900?16:31
buZzyeah16:31
crashoverrideWhere?!16:31
buZzalso have the N810 N800 and 770 internettablet16:31
buZzfind some n900 usergroups, ask around :)16:32
crashoverrideyeah well16:32
crashoverridein the EU, it's gonna be 'spensive16:33
crashoverrideyou're in the US, right?16:33
buZzi'm in netherlands16:34
crashoverride< buZz> they're cheap if you're near US16:49
crashoverrideI assumed the US because of this16:49
buZzhmhm, the point was, they only got sold on US market afaik16:50
buZzthey only started to work in EU after some firmware upgrades later in its life16:50
crashoverrideaah16:50
crashoverrideso they're common place in the US16:50
crashoverrideand rather uncommon here16:51
crashoverridecorrect?16:51
buZzfrom what i've seen, yeah16:52
buZzthe one i have has 'verizon' on the front panel :)16:53
crashoverridethat's the only one I can seem to find.16:58
buZzi'm not sure a different version even exists17:00
crashoverridewikipedia can be really stupidly written, sometimes.17:01
crashoverride"space and special characters "(),:;<>@[\] are allowed with restrictions (they are only allowed inside a quoted string, as described in the paragraph below, and in addition, a backslash or double-quote must be preceded by a backslash)"17:01
linearaini installed sysvinit-core with synaptic on debian buster and it just works somehow17:01
buZzlinearain: it removed systemd?17:01
crashoverrideuntil "quoted string", it works.17:01
crashoverrideand then everything falls apart.17:02
linearaini think not, but it booted with sysvinit instead of systemd17:02
crashoverridefirst, the text instructs that any backslash has to be an infinite loop of backslashes17:02
fsmithredlinearain, did you get any further than that with the migration?17:02
buZzcrashoverride: seems pretty irrelevant to devuan17:02
crashoverridebuZz: fine.17:03
crashoverridelike I could predict someone would come writing about systemd.17:03
linearainwell i got so lost with that migration thing... so i just decided to try installing sysvinit17:03
fsmithredwell, that's the first step in nixer's instructions17:03
linearaini just wanna learn a bit more about how things work17:03
crashoverridefwiw it's usually just simpler to install devuan.17:03
crashoverrideif your goal is learning, however, simplicity is usually conflicting.17:04
linearainoh i followed the instructions in devuan.org17:04
linearainmain page17:04
fsmithredyeah, we discussed this the other day17:04
buZzah the ones ppl said wouldnt work :P17:04
linearainyeah sorry too much info forgot17:04
crashoverridelinearain: and you ended up with a deBIan system? :P17:04
fsmithredthat set does not have you install sysvinit-core - it's supposed to be pulled in automatically when you install eudev17:04
linearainsomehow eudev failed to install if i recall correctly17:05
fsmithredthat's normal17:05
fsmithredthen you do it again after reboot17:05
linearainbut again, my buster is not updated. I installed it in late 2019 and never updated any packages since then17:05
fsmithredat least that's how it was when it was working17:05
fsmithredI don't think that matters17:06
linearaingood to know17:06
linearaini will surely try migrating again, now im a bit worked up17:06
fsmithredthe guy who wrote the directions on the website also did stretch or jessie to beowulf migration17:06
linearainso i keep copy pasting partitions with gparted because i keep messing them up17:07
fsmithredyou can learn things by seeing how many ways you can break something17:07
linearainanyway, after i booted with sysvinit, everything seemed to work, except internet hostnames or whatever, they didnt work (like devuan.org), and therefore the URLs in sources.list would not resolve, i couldnt ping devuan.org, but i could ping it by IP17:09
fsmithred /etc/resolv.conf probably got screwed up. Or did that get replaced with a systemd thing?17:10
linearainto be honest i don't remember17:10
linearainis it a hard fix?17:10
fsmithredno, just put one line in the file17:11
linearainalright17:11
fsmithrednameserver <some-ip-address>17:11
fsmithredthe address can be your router's address on the local network17:12
linearainyeah i just noticed it17:12
fsmithred192.168.1.1  or maybe .0.117:12
linearainanyway, after booting with sysvinit, after the login welcome message, it gets stuck for a few minutes until the prompt appears17:12
linearaincrashoverride: well its a server with no gui, so i guess kind of17:15
fsmithredlinearain, here's the summary of nixer's method. Scroll up for more detail. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p1839017:15
linearaini got that thread bookmark, alright ill look at it now17:16
BatoehGood morning everyone. Something I am running into with the minimal iso is that it will not boot on my lenovo w530. Both on a cd or a usb but it seems to work fine on my desktop. I feel like I ran into this issue once before but I am not sure. Only seems to be devuan so far in my testing. Stuff like Ubuntu, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD are able to boot into their install media no problem. Tried different USBs,17:21
BatoehCDs, and ISO files. Do any of you have any suggestions?17:21
crashoverridelinearain: I didn't get that17:22
fsmithredBatoeh, is it uefi?17:23
BatoehOh almost forgot the really interesting part is that the laptop can boot into the devuan-desktop install media no issue too. Just seems to be server.17:23
masonOoh, that's notable, yeah.17:23
BatoehYee but I am fairly sure I adjusted the appropriate settings for it. I mean the desktop I tried was a threadripper system so fairly recent hardware vs the laptop. Thanks for the assistance so far.17:24
crashoverrideBatoeh: then install via PXE? :D17:24
fsmithredserver iso or minimal-live iso?17:24
fsmithredthe minimal-live will not boot in uefi mode17:25
crashoverridewell, here you have it.17:25
crashoverridepersonally, with UEFI, I usually use PXE.17:25
fsmithredneither will the i386 desktop-live17:25
crashoverridefsmithred: if they run a threadripper, I sure hope they don't use the i386 arch.17:25
BatoehI might just give that a shot crashoverride but I never tried a pxe boot/install. Yeah but I am pretty sure I am set it to legacy boot. No worries. Worst case if all it needs is a pxe install I am down to learn.17:26
fsmithredlol, yeah good point17:26
fsmithredI'm still not clear on which iso won't boot17:26
fsmithredand I really would like to know17:27
crashoverrideI'm assuming minimal-live.17:27
crashoverridex86_64.17:27
fsmithredthat would be good17:27
crashoverrideBatoeh: ^ ??17:27
fsmithredif it's anything else, then something needs to be fixed17:27
crashoverrideyep17:28
crashoverridealso, regarding UEFI and boot17:28
crashoverridethat's a bug I wanted to report.17:28
fsmithredalso, if it's the minimal live, I could post a link to one I made that does boot uefi17:28
crashoverridewith some UEFI implementations, the EFI program isn't found.17:28
crashoverridebecause it is not in the standard, specififd path.17:28
crashoverridespecified*17:28
fsmithredyeah, it's a real crap-shoot with motherboards.17:29
crashoverrideso, more modern UEFI firmwares that "discover" the firmwares are booting fine17:29
crashoverridefsmithred: it's easy to fix tho.17:29
crashoverridejust copy the grubx64.efi firmware17:29
crashoverridewith the correct name17:29
crashoverridethat's how I solved my problem.17:29
BatoehSorry I should have been clear it is x86_64. Yeah I will try a few more things and if all else fails I will try that pxe install. I really appreciate the assistance.17:30
crashoverrideBatoeh: also, minimal-live?17:30
BatoehYep!17:30
crashoverridethanks!17:30
tuxd3vme too :)17:30
fsmithredcool17:30
crashoverridetuxd3v: you too, what? :D17:30
BatoehThey also appreciate the assistance.17:30
tuxd3vhehehe17:30
crashoverrideah17:30
fsmithredtux is usually giving assistance17:31
crashoverrideI thought they also had problems to boot.17:31
tuxd3vother subject not related :D17:31
BatoehIt is a rich tapestry. I will let you all know how it goes. Thank you again. Have a wonderful day.17:32
crashoverridethank you :)17:32
fsmithredBatoeh, that iso won't boot uefi17:32
tuxd3vI messed up in the wrong place :/17:32
fsmithredif you have another linux installed and you're d17:32
fsmithredoh well17:32
crashoverride:DD17:32
fsmithredboot from grub command line, install without bootloader, use other linux to boot17:33
crashoverrideyeah, altho, using grub's rescue shell is no party.17:33
fsmithredew, not the rescue shell, just the regular grub prompt17:34
fsmithredI still haven't figured out how to use the rescue prompt17:34
tuxd3vgood Easter for those who it apply :)17:34
onefangInstalling rEFInd is a good idea.  Replacing grub with it even better.  Though it's only for EFI.17:34
masonThe rescue prompt is unpleasant.17:34
masonAnother option: Linux includes a stub loader. Use the kernel directly and win.17:35
fsmithredI haven't tried stub loader yet. I have used rEFInd and it's good.17:35
fsmithredand easy17:35
* fluffywolf does not celebrate zombie jesus day17:36
fsmithredand in the repo now17:36
fsmithrednot even with rabbit ears?17:36
crashoverridefsmithred: the rescue prompt is easier for debugging a grub install17:36
onefangScientists have found The FSM.17:36
crashoverridefsmithred: because it is fully sequential, and imperative.17:36
fsmithredI could never figure out what commands to use there17:37
onefangAnd I better not say any more about that, coz #devuan-offtopic.17:37
crashoverrideuse tab17:37
crashoverridefsmithred: also, help17:37
masonfluffywolf: You should join #devuan-offtopic as I wanted to reply there.17:37
fsmithredyou're talking about the grub prompt that actually has the word 'rescue' in it?17:37
crashoverrideno idea what word it has in it.17:38
crashoverridev_v17:38
fsmithredor just grub>17:38
crashoverrideI think that last one.17:38
fsmithredregular grub prompt is wonderful17:38
crashoverridearen't they the same thing?17:38
fsmithredbeen using that for years17:38
fsmithrednope17:38
fsmithredthere's one that says grub_rescue>17:38
fsmithredit is hell17:38
crashoverridethe one you get when you press 'c' at the grub menu17:38
fsmithredthat's regular grub command line17:38
crashoverrideok17:39
fsmithredgood stuff17:39
crashoverridewell, it is useful, as it is fully imperative/sequential, as I said17:39
crashoverrideso, remember when I wanted to determine what grub modules I should insmod?17:39
crashoverridethat was how I found out.17:39
crashoverridealso, it's cool because it can be scripted if you have a macro keyboard17:39
crashoverrideso you can edit the macro17:40
fsmithred:)17:40
crashoverrideand see what happens17:40
crashoverridepython strings are a fucking chore.17:44
crashoverrideI'd argue it was less bad in python2.17:44
crashoverrideso basically, if your input is '\test', it will be understood as '\\test' or '\test' depending on the context and how you parse it.17:52
crashoverrideif your input is '\\test' is will be '\\test', unless it is '\\\\test'17:53
crashoverrideif your input is '\\\\test', it can also be parsed as '\test' in some cases.17:53
crashoverridenice.17:53
crashoverrideso, with my current script, if I input '\test' or '\\test', I get errors, if I input '\\\test' or '\\\\test', I get the same behavior.17:55
crashoverridefeels like python has been implemented in shell.17:56
crashoverrideactually, no, my reporting is incorrect. I crash with '\\@' but '\\t' parses as a tab.17:58
EHeMIssue actually looks like pkgmaster has had vhosts enabled and is giving 404 for <2-letter-country-code>.deb.devuan.org.18:01
onefang<2-letter-country-code>.deb.devuan.org is deprecated, has been for along time.18:03
onefangThough I plan on bringing it back, but just don't use it now.18:04
crashoverrideonefang: are you in charge of running the *.deb.devuan.org servers?18:05
EHeMKeeping it live means your plan will be exposed to greater testing sooner...18:05
onefangI'm the Devuan package mirror herder, yes.18:05
crashoverrideok18:06
furrymcgeethere are tools for building devuan live images18:16
furrymcgeewhat do think of an image to create a local debian mirror for pxe netinstall?18:17
fsmithredI like the idea18:18
fsmithreda local amprolla? I know aitor has done that, but he didn't make a live-iso of it.18:18
onefangOr a script to setup a mirror the usual way, but leaves out the "tell onefang about it" step, coz it's not a public mirror?18:20
fsmithredoh, that sounds easier18:21
masonI like the local-coalescer idea because it'd give you a local Debian mirror.18:21
masonOtherwise you get whatever geoip gives you after hitting the mirror18:21
furrymcgeethere will be a lot more attention to an offical netinstall-client and netinstall-server images18:30
BatoehGood afternoon. I was able to thankfully get Devuan booting. I am fairly sure the iwlwifi firmware that it is telling me I am missing is just the wifi driver instead of ethernet but it won't let me skip past it and manually putting the ucode files on the installer usb or on another usb as instructed online does not seem to work either. I am using the server iso now but I faced the same issue on the netinstall20:43
masonfsmithred: ^ I thought it was possible to skip the iwlwifi warnings, but maybe I'm thinking of something else20:45
fsmithredI have always skipped past that window20:46
BatoehHmm you know what I am sorry hang tight. I skipped before and it just kept popping up but it just seems that I have to keep doing that. I will let you know. Sorry.20:46
masonNo worries. Tell us how it goes.20:47
Batoehhmm I had to fanagle the menu manually and like several tries later but I am booting into my devuan system :) was close to ripping out the wifi card til my install was done.20:52
alvhi golinux21:20
alvhi fsmithred21:21
alvthe dyne mail it's fixed21:22
fsmithredthanks, alv21:24
alvhi21:26
fsmithredhi21:27
alvhow is going ??21:27
fsmithredok here.21:27
fsmithredquiet day. No Easter gatherings this year.21:27
alvme too still chilling21:27
alvno21:27
golinuxThank you alv!21:31
golinuxSince I couldn't do email I decided to eat so been afk21:32
golinuxWas now able to login.  :D21:34
fsmithredI'm gonna go ahead and build the deepsea them package. There doesn't seem to be much activity on the bug reports and I'm tired of waiting.21:36
alvgreat i'm going to eat right now21:47
alvHappy Easter to All !!!!21:48
gnarfacesame to you alv21:59
BatoehEverything is working good! I really appreciated the help I received earlier. Thank you.23:04
systemdleteSo I decided to just install beowulf from scratch.  I don't understand why the dist-upgrade did not work, and I didn't want to waste any more time on that approach.  But after spending an hour installing beowulf from scratch, it will not boot.  I think this is a EFI issue, but I'm not sure.23:09
systemdleteInstall did install grub, which used to work for 2 or 3 OSs I had on the laptop, which is EFI not BIOS.  I am probably confused as to exactly what the devuan beowulf installer did and maybe what I told it to do.23:11
systemdleteI tried using a grub repair tool, but it was not able to repair it.  It complains about a missing boot bios, which was there (otherwise, it would never have booted prior to the beowulf upgrade attempt).23:12
systemdleteSo now I have a laptop which cannot boot ANYTHING, let alone beowulf.  I am willing to do this all over again, from scratch, but I want to know what I need to look out for when installing on EFI hardware23:13
systemdleteIt is a Cherry Trail based system.  BTW, there is nothing on the laptop's disk that I need to save (all important matter is backed up).  So I can blow the drive away if needed.23:14
systemdleteI just don't want to repeat this process if it will fail again.23:14
systemdleteMight refracta or starlinux be any better at properly detecting and configuring EFI?23:16
fsmithreddo you get a grub prompt?23:16
systemdleteYes.23:16
fsmithredand yes, refracta will work better, but for a simple reason23:17
fsmithredgrub-efi-amd64-signed was removed23:17
fsmithredyou can do that in a chroot or after booting from grub commands23:17
fsmithredset root=(hd0,gpt...23:17
systemdleteright23:17
fsmithredlinux /vmlinuz ro root=/d23:17
fsmithredyou know it23:17
fsmithredthen remove the signed package. The unsigned will remain.23:18
fsmithredI assume you don't need secure boot.23:18
systemdletegrub-efi-... was removed from... refracta? or removed from devuan?23:18
fsmithredfrom refracta23:18
fsmithredwell...23:18
fsmithredmaybe from the desktop-live devuan isos, too. I don't remember.23:18
fsmithredbut easier to remove it yourself now that the system is installed23:19
systemdletefsmithred:  Did I miss some fine print about installing to EFI ?   I know at one point it asks if additional space should be allocated, something like that...23:19
fsmithredyou used one of the installer isos or a live iso?23:20
systemdleteI tried booting from grub by setting linux and initrd (but not root=) but it gives me the rescue prompt23:20
fsmithredyeah, the prefix is wrong because the location of the bootloader is hard-coded23:21
fsmithredin EFI/debian23:21
fsmithredone fix is to put a grub.cfg there23:21
fsmithredyou need root= two times to boot23:22
systemdleteI elected to use one file system, rather than splitting /boot off by itself23:22
fsmithredonce is: set root=(hd-something23:22
fsmithredthe other is on the linux line, root=/dev/sd-whatever for the root filesystem23:22
systemdletenetinstall23:22
fsmithredyeah, you get the signed package that way23:23
systemdleteSo, let me understand this:  I want the UNsigned package, not the signed one?  That sounds... idk, backwards?23:23
fsmithredif you need a microsoft-approved signature, go for it23:24
systemdleteMore Debian-OOPS?23:24
fsmithredno23:24
systemdleteOh... I see.23:24
fsmithreddebian has a key for secure boot, and that means the bootloader is found in EFI/debian23:24
fsmithredif you need secure boot, you should make your own key23:25
systemdleteNo, I don't want secure boot.23:25
fsmithredright23:25
fsmithredjust remove the signed package.23:25
fsmithredyou don't have to add anything23:25
systemdleteok, I have the laptop here.  It may take me a few minutes to figure out how to get it to turn on again.  Sometimes, it doesn't shut down completely, other times it takes holding down the power for 10 secs... sheesh.23:26
systemdleteHave to hold it down 3 seconds, otherwise, it just displays the battery level and turns back off.23:27
systemdleteseems like the hw boot is not consistent.23:27
systemdleteWhen I do "ls" at the grub prompt, I see hd0 with about 7 partitions (which is right; I did that myself), followed by (hd1) (hd2).  AFAIK, there is only one SSD in this machine.23:29
fsmithredgood23:29
systemdleteso what are hd1 and hd2 then?23:29
systemdleteno thumb drives are connected atm23:29
fsmithredI don't know23:29
systemdletelol23:30
fsmithredthey shouldn't be there23:30
systemdleteI think I agree.23:30
systemdleteStrongly agree.23:30
fsmithredset root=(hd1) and then ls23:30
fsmithredjust to see what it says23:30
systemdletels (hd1) or ls (hd2) reports no known fs detected, then sector size, etc.  Both are about 4MiB23:31
systemdlete4096.5KiB actually23:32
onefangLaptops internal recovery "disks"?23:32
systemdleteonefang:  Bang!  Probably.23:33
systemdleteThere was Windows originally.  I blew it away.  Or thought I did.23:33
systemdleteBut I've been using the laptop for over a year without incident.23:33
systemdleteRunning devuan that is23:33
fsmithredset root again to make it right23:34
systemdletedevuan ascii23:34
systemdleteset root for hd0?23:34
fsmithredmake it =(hd0,gptX)23:34
fsmithredwhere X is the right number23:34
fsmithredfor the root fs23:35
fsmithredlinux /vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sd<that same number>23:36
fsmithredinitrd /initrd.img23:36
fsmithredboot23:36
systemdlete"Begin: Running /scripts/local-block ... done."  about 20-25x, then drops me into initramfs23:39
systemdletebusybox shell23:39
systemdlete(I've gotten to this point in the past, just fyi)23:40
systemdletealso, thanks fsmithred, for the assist.   I'm sorry I am unable to figure this out myself.23:41
fsmithredboot the installer media, go Advanced, Rescue, and open a console on the installed system23:41
systemdleteI'm still getting the hang of this EFI firmware stuff.  After finally understanding grub, along comes EFI.23:41
fsmithredthen remove the grub siggned package23:42
systemdleteok.23:42
fsmithredcheck out rodsboooks.com23:42
fsmithredhttps://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html23:42
systemdleteI've actually read those pages -- very helpful!23:42
systemdleteBut I still haven't mastered the beast... obviously.  :D23:43
systemdleteI did try this rescue mode, but did not know about removing that package.23:44
systemdleteI opened a console; the main screen kept prompting me for the ath10k driver23:48
systemdletebut it can't find apt or apt-get23:48
systemdleteor dpkg23:48
systemdletenow it is prompting me for the wireless to use "during the installations process"   uh, maybe just a harmless string, but another thing that should be fixed that probably never will be23:50
systemdleteI didn't get this before because I was using ethernet dongle.23:50
systemdletebut at least it DID find my wireless lan23:51
systemdletetrying to connect now23:51
systemdletethey're exchanging keys now.23:51
systemdletegot network...23:54
systemdletewaiting for chance to open a console somewhere23:54
systemdleteafter I select the root device, it tells me it appears that /boot is a separate device.  As I mentioned, I used one partition for the whole shebang.23:56
systemdleteIt might be detecting the separate /boot partition from the ascii that was installed on this machine.23:56
systemdleteI just checked /target/boot and it is correct.  I will not mount that other paritition23:58
systemdletefsmithred:  Signed package is gone.  Reboot?23:59
systemdleteor do I need to do something else?23:59

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