libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-04-14

beagleburtG'day from New Zealand everyone! I just upgraded from ASCII to Beowulf but I have lost my System (Default?) Font. During the apt update/upgrade I did after the dist-upgrade, I got heaps of Font errors? Any idea on how to restore my system font(s)?04:34
crashoverrideapt-cache search tty04:35
crashoverrideapt-cache search '^tty'04:36
crashoverrideeven04:36
crashoverrideand now to correct it into something that works04:36
crashoverrideapt-cache search '^ttf'04:36
crashoverridesorry, I'm beyond tired.04:36
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure console-setup04:37
crashoverrideyeah that sounds like a better way, unless you've configred your console setup yourself and didn't back your edits up.04:38
fsmithredthat's in /etc/default/console-setup04:38
fsmithredfor desktop fonts, you have to do something else04:39
fsmithredthe name escapes me right now04:39
Xenguybeagleburt, I seem to recall my fonts were screwed up too, but after I rebooted the system, everything normalized, thankfully04:41
beagleburtfsmithred, TKU! TKU! TKU! I let the computer choose the most suitable & all my System fonts have gone back to what they were B4 I upgraded.04:44
crashoverridethat sounds fortunate.04:46
beagleburtXenguy, I rebooted a couple of times during the apt update/upgrade dist-upgrade apt upgrade/update process but the fonts did not normalize until I just tried fsmithred's advice above ^^^04:47
XenguyGlad to here you're sorted now, you can always trust fsmithred .  It was scary for a short time when it happened to me, but the reboot settled those problems04:50
beagleburtXenguy, Yeah - scary for me too...the horrible almost typwriter-type font I was left with had missing letters at the end of my Mate Console Menus... :-(04:52
WafficusHey there, question about gqrx on Devuan, whenever I boot this up, it says: Controlport disabled. "Pulseaudio error: connection refused"05:08
WafficusI have pulseaudio installed05:08
crashoverridethen, the easy fix is to remove pulseaudio.05:13
crashoverridealsa is great and I never had issues with it.05:13
crashoverridebut you know, let's fix all that works until we can employ all of pottering's friends, right?05:14
Wafficusyeah I hear you05:14
WafficusI'd prefer alsa05:14
Wafficusbut gqrx I think pretty much depends on it05:14
crashoverridereally?05:14
Wafficusfrom most of the posts I skimmed online for this issue yeah05:15
Wafficusits on a Debian bug log that states pulse is a related dependency05:15
crashoverrideyou might want to stop using gqrx then05:15
Wafficuscrashoverride:  have you used gqrx with just alsa then?05:15
WafficusI want to use it though05:15
Wafficusits for ham radio stuff05:15
Wafficusits for a SDR unit I just bought05:16
Wafficusthis is for just the Devuan "Just Works" desktop, so I don't really care what's installed personally05:16
crashoverridethen use ubuntu server05:16
crashoverrideI'm sure it works on ubuntu.05:16
Wafficusyeah but its available in Devuan and I installed it05:16
Wafficushence Debian etc05:17
crashoverrideyeah but then, pulseaudio.05:17
crashoverrideand that always breaks.05:17
Wafficusso what, its already present on the machine though05:17
Wafficusso doesn't matter at this point05:17
WafficusI would just want to know how to get it to get past that point to allow the connection to take place05:17
Wafficusdidn't know if this was done on a service level change05:17
WafficusI didn't know where 'udev' rules are done on Devuan though, since it looks like thats the case in this blog post: https://www.instructables.com/rtl-sdr-on-Ubuntu/05:18
crashoverrideWafficus: https://groups.google.com/g/gqrx/c/-5f1OUvOXXw05:18
Wafficusso do I have to uninstall05:19
Wafficusthen compile gqrx from source in that case?05:20
crashoverridenot sure, I am totally unfamiliar with gqrx05:20
Wafficusgotcha05:20
crashoverridemaybe it already has the right routines, and is just misconfigured05:20
crashoverridefrom what I can read, gqrx totally supports alsa05:21
crashoverridebut yeah okay, debian seems to hard-pull pulseaudio when you install gqrx05:22
Wafficushence the binary from debian is the pulseaudio version05:22
Wafficusmy main thing is how do I get pulseaudio to just allow the connection to take place05:23
Wafficusclearly pulse is installed on this comp though I often use alsa instead05:23
crashoverridethat is a question for #debian I'd say05:23
Wafficuswell its on Devuan so its a bit different05:24
Wafficuseven if it is a port05:24
crashoverridesince most packages in devian are pulled straight from debian.05:24
WafficusI still would need help in figuring out where to change the udev rule05:24
Wafficuson Devuan *05:24
crashoverridewell, then, I can't help you with that, sorry05:24
crashoverridethe way I'd go about it would be re-compiling.05:24
crashoverridemuch less hassle in my opinion.05:24
Wafficusre-compiling from source?05:25
crashoverridewell, what else?05:25
Wafficusthe source on their site has a PPA link though05:25
Wafficusso I see what you mean that its Ubuntu based primarily05:25
crashoverrideI'd assume so, yes.05:25
crashoverrideI mean, software like that is often... relatively hard dependent on a given distro05:26
crashoverridethey're gonna advertise it as "for linux"05:26
crashoverridebut then it's only working on a very specific distro05:26
crashoverrideand nowhere else.05:26
Wafficusyeah I see your point05:26
crashoverridebut when you build software, you get to patch it, too, if you want.05:27
crashoverrideand often, you don't necessarily need to.05:27
crashoverrideok, I need to crash05:27
crashoverridecan't override no more.05:27
Wafficuswait one question05:27
crashoverridek :)05:27
Wafficusso can I use an Ubuntu PPA even on Devuan?05:28
Wafficusif not, no biggie05:28
Wafficusjust wanted to ask that one05:28
crashoverrideI don't even know :D05:28
crashoverrideI would assume that's a big no.05:28
crashoverridewait I think I've read something about it.05:28
crashoverrideno I don't think I have.05:29
crashoverridebut I would not.05:29
Wafficusgotcha05:29
WafficusI might flat out install a ham radio distro on another drive for this kind of thing05:29
crashoverrideyou could also run it in a VM05:29
crashoverrideI know I use a hypervisor for that kinda stuff05:29
crashoverridesaves disk space, allows you to configure RAM dynamically, etc.05:30
Wafficustrue05:31
Wafficusgonna ask on Debian too since it is a Debian port05:31
Wafficusthanks for letting me bs with you about this one05:31
Wafficusi'll letcha go05:31
crashoverrideno worries05:34
crashoverridegotta seriously crash now05:35
lts-zeroability[m]: great!05:53
zeroability[m]Thanks for the help!05:54
gourmorning07:22
gourhow easy/difficult is to change from one init system to the other?07:22
luser978without sabotaged packages which work only with systemd, easy gour08:12
luser978with sabotage, well, that's why we have devuan08:13
gourluser978: i installed runit, but see that there are missing scripts, so consider to switch to sysvinit until things get consolidated. what would be runit --> syvinit procedure?10:25
gnarfacegour: probably just install sysvinit again...12:20
gourhmm, that would be simple...will try after my restore is done12:27
ham5urgI tried to boot a minimal.iso inside a UEFI-VM (virt-manager) but I got dropped to the UEFI shell. Is minimal.iso UEFI-bootable?14:11
crashoverrideno idea14:15
crashoverridebut one thing's for sure, some UEFI implementations don't find the grubx64.efi program14:16
fsmithredham5urg, which minimal iso? minimal-live won't boot uefi14:19
fsmithrednetinstall will. not sure about mini.iso14:20
ham5urgfsmithred, yes, "minimal-live" did not worked out. But "server" did. Thanks for the info.14:28
fsmithredI did make an unofficial uefi-minimal-live for 3.0 but not for 3.114:30
ham5urg3.0 is no harm for a live system.14:31
ham5urgIs it somewhere online?14:31
fsmithredham5urg, https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64_uefi_minimal-live.iso14:50
fsmithredSHASUMS.txt is in the same dir14:50
Kittydo instructions exist for installing devuan on a machine with uefi boot ?15:10
fsmithredKitty, there are some installation guides with screenshots here: https://www.devuan.org/os/install15:21
fsmithreddo you have a specific question about uefi install?15:21
KittyI was about to say "Well I can't get it to work" but it seems that deleting and then recreating the uefi partition has done something...15:22
Kittyit's now doing an install15:22
fsmithredwhich iso are you using?15:24
ham5urgUEFI installation is a beast if done first time.15:24
Kittydevuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64-netinstall.iso15:26
fsmithredmanual or automatic partitioning?15:27
fsmithrednow I have to remember what was wrong with 3.1.0 that led us to make 3.1.115:27
Kittymanual partitoining15:28
KittyI have a 512M EFI partition at the start of the disk15:28
Kittytho it creates a 1M empty before that, for reasons I don't fully understand15:29
fsmithred3.1.0 install isos put beowulf-proposed-updates in the installed system's sources.list15:29
Kittythen 10G of raid1 for boot 50G of raid1 for /var, and then 10T of space for what I bought this server for...15:29
fsmithredok. Is that 1M actually a partition, or just free space?15:30
Kittywoo, it got further this time,15:30
Kittyit actually got past the grub install bit15:30
fsmithredoh, good15:31
fsmithredif you reboot to a grub command line, there's an easy way to fix it15:31
KittyWoo, that worked!15:52
crashoverride:D15:56
fsmithredKitty, remember to comment out beowulf-proposed-updates in sources.list15:59
fsmithredthat's for testing fixes15:59
fsmithredor for testing possible breakage15:59
ham5urgWhat is the name of the package to create a desktop system out of a minimal debootstraped Devuan?16:44
fsmithredapt install task-something-desktop16:59
fsmithredsomething=xfce, or other16:59
ham5urgThanks. I like these task packages.17:08
ham5urgPackages of a "higher order"17:08
fsmithredif you decide you want to delete a few desktop packages, you might change your mind about the task packages.17:13
fsmithredthey make it harder to customize17:14
fsmithredafk, bbl17:15
ham5urgIMHO an external repository with task packages like directory-server, email, db, log, monitoring, net-mgmt, voip, printer-scanner and many more could be established, maybe on basis of ansible, a huge business-user-number could be attracted.17:15
fsmithredit's not difficult to do. Just make a dummy package that depends on what things you want to include.17:16
fsmithredmaintaining it is a chore.17:16
fsmithredlater..17:16
ham5urgTo configure these installations and to be compatible to each is a big task17:18
ham5urgIMHO many businesses would adapt to a reasonable default-config if it is well done.17:19
dionysiusHi, http://ch.deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ does not seem to offer ascii anymore. Using http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ for now. But this was rather unexpected17:20
ham5urgDevuan onto anything :D server, switch, desktop, laptop, phones, printer...17:20
dionysiusOh, it also does not offer beowulf... didn't realize17:21
sadsnorkdionysius, I believe the country codes on mirrors are no longer used.17:27
sadsnorkI think you might need https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt17:27
dionysiussadsnork, ty17:29
sadsnorkyw eh :-)17:29
ham5urgI got an error while debootstrapping: Errors were encountered while processing: .../libsystemd0_..._amd64.deb17:57
ham5urg...libelogind0:amd64 conflicts with libsystemd017:58
masonham5urg: It's a bit painful. You can explicitly invoke libelogind0 and then clean up afterwards maybe.17:58
masonOh.17:58
masonI need to do a fresh install and a fresh upgrade both, so I can see if anything's changed.17:59
ham5urgThis is when debootstrapping unstable17:59
masonAh. All bets are off there. That stuff's unstable! :)17:59
ham5urgYes :) Just a test17:59
masonBut for real, it would be cool to set up install and sidegrade via CI.17:59
masonObserve breaks when they happen, etc.18:00
ham5urgmason, you mean a simple debootstrap for stable, testing, unstable for various archs inside a VM?18:04
ham5urga debootstrap with large includes like taks-gnome-desktop18:05
masonham5urg: Inside a chroot even.18:05
masonIt could be fairly lightweight.18:05
ham5urghmm, that is not a hard task but a small amd64 VM would be needed. A simple email which sends out the log in case of $? -ne 018:07
masonham5urg: Something like Jenkins could just log results.18:08
ham5urgIs there a Jenkins available in the devuan network?18:11
masonI was thinking of something I'd run myself.18:12
ham5urgThe same error comes with testing18:26
ham5urgLooks like a sabotaging act to have libsystemd dependencies in testing :D18:31
ham5urgmason, I would try a different approach. Instead trying debootstrap, I would script a tool which recursively scans debs in testing/unstable/experimental for systemd-dependencies.18:40
fsmithredham5urg, what does your debootstrap command look like?18:40
fsmithredI'm trying ceres now18:41
ham5urgfsmithred, debootstrap --arch amd64 --include=grub-efi,grub-pc-bin,linux-image-amd64,task-german,task-laptop,task-german-desktop,task-gnome-desktop testing /mnt http://deb.devuan.org/merge18:42
fsmithredok, I'm trying with include=libelogind018:43
ham5urgls /mnt/var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd*18:44
ham5urglibsystemd0_247.3-3_amd64.deb18:45
fsmithredwhen it stops, I"ll check18:45
ham5urgok18:45
fsmithredit's normal for lsd0 to get installed in a debootstrap18:45
fsmithredit's been like that for at least a year, maybe two18:45
ham5urgWhat is the purpose?18:46
fsmithredFailure while installing base packages.18:46
fsmithred(possibly the package /var/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd0_247.3-5_amd64.deb is at fault)18:46
fsmithredthe purpose is to satisfy deps of the base packages18:46
fsmithredwhy they need it, I do not know18:47
fsmithredwell...18:47
fsmithredsystemd should have some control over all systems18:47
fsmithredbecause18:47
fsmithredvar/cache/apt/archives/libsystemd0_247.3-5_amd64.deb18:48
ham5urgA scanner would not be too hard to write for me, scanning the repositories and match a regex. To identify the bad package.18:48
ham5urgIf it helps, I can do it.18:48
fsmithredlsd0 is not installed18:48
ham5urgdebootstrap finished?18:48
fsmithredyeah18:49
ham5urgI try18:49
fsmithredthe deps is there, but it's not installed18:49
onefangIf you want to find out what depends on systemd, just grep through the metadata files you can get from any package repo.18:49
fsmithreddpkg shows: iU  libelogind0:amd64       246.10-218:49
fsmithredchroot and then 'apt -f install' causes 78 packages to get configured18:50
fsmithredand libelogind0 is now ii instead of iU18:51
ham5urgI still got the same error. libelogind0 conflicts with libsystemd0. libsystemd0 is to be installed...19:01
fsmithreddebootstrap --arch amd64 --include=libelogind0 ceres ceres2 http://deb.devuan.org/merged19:01
masonham5urg: This wouldn't be to find systemd, it'd to be finding general glitchies.19:18
ham5urgFailure while installing base packages. This will be re-attempted up to five times. See /mnt/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details (possibly the package /var/cahe/apt/archives/libsystemd0_247.3-5_amd64.deb is at fault)19:22
ham5urgdebootstrap --arch amd64 --include=libelogind0 ceres /mnt http://deb.devuan.org/merged19:23
ham5urgmmmh19:23
ham5urgI have booted a devuan live iso and started to install testing onto the machine19:23
fsmithredham5urg, I got that same "Failure while installing..." message. Ignore it. Chroot and 'apt -f install'19:46
ham5urgok19:56
rwpham5urg, A small thing I see in the scrollback...  I see "--include=grub-efi,grub-pc-bin,..." but AFAIK grub-pc-bin is not normally installed on an UEFI system.21:20
rwpham5urg, I have grub-common, grub-efi-amd64, grub-efi-amd64-bin on UEFI systems.  However as you were in a chroot I am not sure how strongly this applies.21:21
rwpBut if it were to be a debootstrap install of a bare metal booting system then I think it would apply.21:21
ham5urgrwp, yes, I put it in to boot it on BIOS systems as well. Removable hd.21:22
ham5urgDual boot ability21:22
rwpI did not know such a configuration was possible.  I have only ever been able to do one or the other.  And to switch between them.21:22
rwpIn VMs I usually use the legacy boot.  As that is the typical default.  But have created UEFI boot VMs and those work too.21:23
rwpIf I am doing a debootstrap install of a new bare metal system then I match the type against the bare metal firmware.21:24
rwpI last did a debootstrap bare metal install on Beowulf and see in the scrollback that I should catch up on testing and unstable for my own knowledge if nothing else.21:24
fsmithredrwp, the desktop-live iso has all the grub-*-bin packages in case they are needed.21:35
fsmithredamd64, not i38621:35
fsmithredit even has a grub-efi-ia32 bootloader. So far, I only know a couple people who use that. Old macbook pro. Not sure what else.21:35
rwpTo get myself up to speed on things (not that I know enough to really help) I will run through some tests and see what I get.21:36
rwpI just repeated a simple minimal install and grub is not installed by default.21:36
rwpAlso I notice that debootstrap defaults to using http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged rather than http://deb.devuan.org/merged and I don't know if that makes a difference.21:36
fsmithredew21:39
fsmithredyeah, use something other than pkgmaster so it does not get hammered. That's the master.21:40
fsmithredor...21:40
fsmithredthat's the real one, all the others are reflections21:40
rwpWould you file a ticket to have the default changed?  I was testing 'debootstrap' 1.0.114+devuan4 in Beowulf.21:41
fsmithredhammer on onefang - he has a fat pipe21:41
onefanghttp://sledjhamr.org/devuan/merged is my fat pipe.21:42
rwpMost would use deb.devuan.org but if you don't specify it then it uses the built in default and the resulting sources.list is pkgmaster.devuan.org21:42
fsmithreddon't most people specify a url when they do a debootstrap?21:42
onefangI do.21:42
rwpSYNOPSIS debootstrap [OPTION...]  SUITE TARGET [MIRROR [SCRIPT]]21:43
onefangI use my own fat pipe, unless I'm reinstallling that server.21:43
rwpAnd therefore it is optional.21:43
fsmithredmight be better to leave it as it is21:43
rwpGenerally when I have my act really together I use my own local mirror.  But I don't have a mirror at this moment.21:43
rwpGenerally when I do things repeatedly I insert my local apt-cacher-ng caching proxy so that I only ever pull a package once.21:44
rwpBut I was lazy just now and just used the defaults for my first testing of it.21:44
onefangfsmithred keeps suggesting people use my mirror, and I don't mind.21:44
fsmithredI try not to do it too much21:44
onefangGood boy.21:44
fsmithredbut I think you have the fastest one21:45
rwpWhen I specify I specify deb.devuan.org and let the infrastructure choose.  (In addition to using my local apt-cacher-ng proxy.)21:45
onefangCertainly NOT using pkgmaster is a great idea.  Leave it's bandwidth for the mirrors to pull from.21:45
fsmithred(I have not tested all of them)21:45
rwpNote that I was commenting because it seemed like a less than great default to have coded into the default debootstrap (Beowulf) and thought it should be deb.devuan.org instead.21:46
onefanghttp://veritas.devuan.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html  and https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html shows speeds.21:46
fsmithredrwp, did you get pkgmaster in sources.list?21:46
onefanghttps://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html  also shows speeds, but since it runs on sledjhamr, it cheats.  lol21:46
rwpfsmithred, Yes.21:46
rwpI'm just raising the question.  You nice folks in charge get to decide on the answer. :-)21:47
onefangActualy I think these days veritas runs on the same infrastructure as pkgmaster, so it also cheats.  lol21:48
onefangBut that's why I have apt-panopticon running on three servers.21:49
rwpAnd I need to go help a friend now.  I will be up on his roof adjusting the direction of a 2.4 GHz WiFi grid parabolic antenna hoping to make a radio link work.  It's 34F/1C out and a little breezy.  Brr!  Catch you later!21:51
fsmithred_can I talk here?21:51
fsmithredok, that was pretty weird. My computer rebooted. At first i thought the power went out, but the lamp stayed on.21:53
fsmithredand I thought about what's different...21:54
fsmithredI just got a new wireless keyboard and mouse21:54
fsmithredI have no idea if that could do it.21:54
fsmithredor the paranoid thought... could the usb transmitter also be a vector for infection?21:55
onefangYes.21:55
fsmithredhow can I tell?21:56
onefangTwo things I can think of off the top of my head, though I've never had to deal with them, but I hate wireless keyboards and mice.21:58
debdogvery short power fluctuations can crash a PC while they're barely visable at the lights21:59
onefangOne is that the wireless protocol itself might not be secure.  And there maybe leakage from a similar keyboard.21:59
onefangSecond is that there is malware that can live in the firmware of USB devices.21:59
onefangAnd what debdog said.22:00
onefangI hate 'em coz yet another set of batteries to maintain, and what happens when the battery level gets low.22:01
fsmithredyeah, come to think of it, this has happened before22:04
fsmithredso I'm betting on power fluctuations22:05
fsmithredmeanwhile, I booted from a usb and I'm running rkhunter and chkrootkit22:05
fsmithredI needed a keyboard and a mouse, and these were on sale for slightly less than the remaining amount on an amazon gift card.22:06
buZzget a UPS?22:06
fsmithredwith shipping, it came to the exact balance, to the penny.22:06
buZzi havent spent >10 usd on keyboards and mice in over 20 years22:06
fsmithredyeah, I never replaced the UPS that died.22:06
brocashelmjust recently, my ups saved a few of my machines during a brownout; everything went dark for a split seconds, and then all the lights came back on like nothing even happened22:14
fsmithredbrb22:27

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