libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2021-05-31

markizanoI am so going to have to wipe Ubuntu from my new laptop and completely rid myself of systemd -_-08:13
markizano#beowulf for the win! \o/08:13
markizanoFeels too much like a Winblows virus :(08:13
alexus\join devuan-dev16:22
alexusopsss...16:22
Beer:D At least it was no authentication16:25
alexusHi all... Please, could someone tell me if there are deb packages for simple-netaid?16:25
Beeralexus: apt search, or https://packages.debian.org/ or https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ will tell you it does not seem to be something packaged by Debian16:27
alexusBeer: I had already searched, but nothing... I was wondering if there was some "informal" simple-netaid deb package...16:30
Beeralexus: apt-cache madison or apt policy will tell you what the source is if it's part of your APT lists17:23
BeerOtherwise, get info on the author/packager from apt show17:24
DashiePieguys, I'm failing to get devuan installed on a computer, it doesn't seem to want to partition the thing19:34
DashiePiesomething came up about UEFI, should I have forced that install? I want to use GRUB, though19:35
DashiePiepreviously installed on it was win10, I haven't let it touch the internet, though19:35
DashiePiehello?19:39
GyrosGeierthere is GRUB for UEFI as well19:42
GyrosGeierwhich you get depends on how you booted the installer, mainly19:43
GyrosGeierbasically, modern systems are UEFI only, plus a compatibility wrapper that emulates enough of a BIOS to boot stuff19:44
GyrosGeierif you have the wrapper active, you can't access UEFI runtime services anymore, and installation of new entries in the boot menu is handled through runtime services19:45
DashiePieoh, I probably should've forced UEFI, then19:45
GyrosGeieryes-ish19:45
DashiePiethis computer is basically new19:45
GyrosGeierand made sure to boot in UEFI mode19:45
DashiePieokay, I guess that's why it wouldn't partition19:46
GyrosGeierthe USB sticks allow either, there is both a normal boot sector on it and an EFI system partition19:46
GyrosGeierbut that's not how you install normally19:46
DashiePiethanks for the help, I'll go make sure it partitions, and come back if I have any problems19:46
GyrosGeieractually installed systems either have an MBR partition table with a boot sector inside for legacy mode, or a GPT partition table with an EFI bootloader19:47
GyrosGeierthe EFI bootloader lives inside a specially marked partition19:47
GyrosGeierfor MBR mode, GRUB is installed into the secret unallocated space before the first partition, in EFI mode, it is installed into the EFI System Partition (ESP)19:48
GyrosGeierif your root is encrypted, you need both an ESP and an unencrypted /boot partition for the kernel19:49
GyrosGeierthat is a bit annoying19:49
DashiePieI figured out the problem19:51
DashiePieit's not recognizing the actual hard drive win10 is on, and wants to use the usb I'm installing from19:51
DashiePiehow do I choose the correct disk?19:51
DashiePieit seems to have taken this from the boot order, which I don't know why19:52
DashiePieis there an option in expert install?19:52
GyrosGeierit should show all drives19:52
DashiePieit did not for some reason19:53
DashiePieit runs detect and detects the flash drive, not the actual hard drive inside the machine19:53
DashiePieI can't understand why, but it's win10, the most unfriendly os to ever grace our dystopian world19:53
orcus-deDashiePie: if windows is still there - I would check the filesystems from there for errors ++ you should turn off windows fast startup feature too (to avoid the windows volumes - including the efi partition - being marked as dirty)19:53
GyrosGeierthat shouldn't be a problem19:54
GyrosGeiergood point about fast startup19:54
DashiePiefast startup, is that in the bios?19:54
GyrosGeierno, in Windows settings19:54
DashiePieah shit, I have to boot into that thing?19:54
GyrosGeierit basically says "hibernate instead of shutdown"19:54
GyrosGeierif you have never booted, then no19:54
orcus-deas linux will stay away from touching a windows fs it it's seeing any errors there (to avoid breaking it)19:54
GyrosGeiertrue, but the disk should show up19:55
orcus-dehttps://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001762.htm19:55
GyrosGeieris that an NVMe disk?19:55
DashiePieI have, but it installed without net (I didn't go into bios like I should have first time)19:55
orcus-deit's something you got to change anyways19:55
DashiePie1tb 7200, assuming that means hdd19:55
GyrosGeieryes19:55
GyrosGeierso likely SATA19:55
DashiePieso I have to boot back into win10 and switch off this "fast boot" bullshit, and then install over the damn thing finally19:55
GyrosGeierdoes a SATA controller show up in lspci?19:55
GyrosGeierno, if you don't want to keep it you can just overwrite it19:56
orcus-deDashiePie: after you turned off windows fast startup, you have to boot a 2nd time into windows to get the change into effect19:56
GyrosGeierjust override the safety mechanisms19:56
GyrosGeiermy suspicion is more that the SATA HBA is in some weird mode19:57
DashiePieI turned off secureboot in the bios and cleared it so it remained disabled, and then tried to install, didn't work19:57
DashiePieI installed it without net, I'm not letting it touch the internet19:57
GyrosGeierusually there should be a switch in BIOS "SATA mode", with "AHCI", "RAID" and "legacy" settings19:57
DashiePiehm19:58
GyrosGeierif that is in "RAID" mode, that might be a reason the disk isn't being detected19:58
GyrosGeierwould use AHCI19:58
GyrosGeierlegacy mode is a bit interrupt heavy IIRC19:58
DashiePieI don't have to turn off fastboot, if I overwrite everything, you say?19:59
DashiePiesaid*19:59
DashiePieor do I still have to do that?19:59
orcus-deyou confuse fastboot (a bios feature) with fast startup (a windows feature)19:59
DashiePieyeah, it's confusing to someone who gives no fucks about win10 and never used it, I only had win7 before20:00
DashiePiewin7 was the latest I've ever used and ever will use20:00
DashiePiebarring some stupid work-related thing, if ever20:00
DashiePie>inb4 technically using win10 right now20:01
orcus-dewhatever you are doing - @all the windows fast startup is about: I suspect that your efi partition is marked as "dirty" and the install does not (dare to) use it20:01
DashiePieokay, so what do I do? walk me through this, I'm getting a lot of confusing info20:03
orcus-deI got nothing to add besides what I already wrote + the shared link DashiePie20:04
GyrosGeierit should still show up though20:06
GyrosGeierand a dirty EFI partition can be fixed with fsck20:06
GyrosGeierthis is annoying for Windows, which will be unhappy about that, but20:06
orcus-deall true GyrosGeier :-)20:07
GyrosGeiermy next two steps would be checking lspci whether the SATA controller shows up20:08
GyrosGeierand if it does, if it has a driver associated with it and/or if it's in the right mode in BIOS20:09
GyrosGeiershould be AHCI20:09
DashiePieI turned off fast startup20:16
DashiePienow the usb stick won't boot20:16
DashiePiewhy is this so unnecessarily hard?20:16
DashiePiejust kept booting into win1020:16
luser978tap F10 or F12 or Esc to get to a boot selection menu20:17
DashiePieyeah, I changed the settings to boot the usb stick first20:20
DashiePiedidn't work20:20
DashiePiekept booting into win1020:20
luser978during boot, tap the boot menu key repeatedly20:21
luser978one of the above20:21
DashiePiedid I fuck up my flash drive by trying to install over it? do I have to rewrite a beowulf iso onto it?20:23
DashiePieI don't think anyone can explain how this shit happens to me, it just happens20:23
luser978rewrite it, can't hurt20:27
DashiePieis something like rufus portable? like, can I just download one of those things and run it?20:31
buZzdd is portable20:35
DashiePieI've got unetbootin, from their github.io page20:36
DashiePiedunno if that up-front download works or not, but we'll see20:36
DashiePieas for the installer, I want the full thing, so I can do it without internet20:36
DashiePieI'm assuming that means 4GB download20:37
buZzshould work fine20:37
buZznah20:37
buZzoh, you mean the dvd images? those are 4GB20:37
DashiePie3.6, apparently20:37
buZzcool20:37
DashiePieyeah, I want the full install for internet-less reasons20:37
buZzsweet, have at it :)20:38
DashiePiealso, if win10 ever touched the internet, I'd always be ashamed of myself, and shunned by others, hopefully20:38
buZzyou know, you could just remove the ethernet cable ;)20:38
DashiePieI never had one plugged into that computer in the first place20:38
DashiePienor did I ever have wifi20:39
buZzthen i dont know why you'd worry about any of this20:39
DashiePiewin10 has never had internet in this house, and as long as I have any say, it never will20:39
DashiePiethe burning hatred I feel for win10 overpowers any amount of suns you could feasibly combine together, even ignoring diminishing returns20:39
buZzstill no clue why you're even bringing this up20:41
buZzhow's the install going?20:41
DashiePie>no clue20:41
DashiePie>talking about trying to install over win1020:41
DashiePieliterally trying to bulldoze it with no success20:41
buZzwhy not?20:41
DashiePieI wish I knew20:42
buZzok? what device is this you are using20:42
DashiePieshort summary of events20:42
DashiePie>install win10 on accident, because I'm stupid, didn't realize it wouldn't select the usb without interference20:43
DashiePieRIP me, first mistake20:43
DashiePie>try to install, doesn't detect hard drive, does detect usb, try to partition, fails20:43
DashiePie>possibly broken usb stick stops being usable for some reason and computer only boots into win1020:43
buZzif you installed devuan over the usbstick , it would no longer work20:43
buZzand the install wouldnt even finalize20:44
DashiePie>going to try to rewrite beowulf iso onto the stick20:44
buZzcool20:44
DashiePieit didn't work, at all, after I tried installing it onto the stick by accident20:44
DashiePiethese things happen to me and I can only assume some godlike force just loves seeing it, becuase it won't stop20:44
buZzso this device is a plain desktop?20:45
DashiePieit's an all-in-one desktop computer20:45
DashiePieit's just temporary for me20:45
buZzso no20:45
buZzdoes it have a brandname and model number20:45
DashiePiebut it'll probably play WoW, so I just wanted to play WoW20:45
DashiePieI couldn't find it on the net with the configuration on the box20:45
buZzisnt that a >10 year old game?20:45
buZzDashiePie: does the box say what it is20:45
DashiePiebut it's 24-df1237c, I think20:45
buZzHP, thank you20:46
buZzwhy was that so hard to say20:46
buZzthat storage is plain sata20:46
buZzthe installer should just show it20:46
DashiePieHP all-in-one desktop computer, 16GB of RAM, 1TB 7200 HDD, i5-1137g or what the fuck ever20:46
fsmithredSet it to AHCI maybe?20:51
DashiePieI would have no idea how to do that20:54
fsmithredit's in the bios20:57
fsmithreda hard drive setting20:58
DashiePieokay, I didn't see it in there, where should I be looking?21:05
fsmithredsame place as the RAID setting21:06
DashiePieas if I know any of these things21:06
fsmithredlook around in the hard drive settings in the bios21:07
fsmithredthat's the best I can tell you21:07
fsmithredif it's not obvious, look in the manual for the motherboard21:07
gnarfacea common list would be IDE, AHCI, RAID21:07
DashiePiewhy does unetbootin recognize that something is plugged in or not, but doesn't actually continue with the iso write?21:12
DashiePieokay, back to the drawing board21:13
fsmithreddon't know.21:13
gnarfacei missed the part about what you need unetbootin for?21:13
fsmithredI haven't used unetbootin in over 10 years21:13
DashiePieI was going to reinstall a beowulf iso onto it in case I somehow fucked it up by accidental partitioning21:13
fsmithredand when I did, it ended up installing the bootloader to the usb instead of the hard drive21:13
gnarfacethe beowulf isos are all usb bootable21:14
gnarfaceyou don't need unetbootin for that anymore21:14
DashiePieI needed to WRITE, gnarface, WRITE an iso there, for full install because no internet21:14
DashiePieunless I am mistaken and unetbootin does not do such a thing21:14
fsmithredyou don't have a linux system to use for that?21:14
fsmithreddd or cat will do it21:14
DashiePiewhat?21:15
DashiePieI'm on devuan right now on the computer I installed it on in the first place that was broken a long time ago21:15
fsmithredthose commands will write the iso to a usb stick21:15
fsmithredisohybrid21:15
DashiePiemy brain is going to explode21:15
gnarfaceok basically what we're saying is that several years ago they came up with a clever way to make isos bootable from usb or cdrom without unetbootin21:16
gnarfacethey call it iso-hybrid21:16
gnarfacemost distros use it by default now21:16
gnarfaceand you can write one of these images to a usb key with dd, cat, or cp.  maybe other stuff too.  you don't need anything that isn't on every linux box21:16
orcus-desudo dd if=<the-iso-file> of=/dev/sdX bs=1M  # where you replace sdX with the usb-device (not a partition there) - and obviously replacing <the-iso-file> with the iso-filename (including it's location path if not being at the current director)21:17
gnarfaceunless we vastly misunderstand the task at hand, unetbootin is overcomplicating things massively21:17
orcus-des/director/directory21:17
gnarfacei dunno who started recommending bs=1M but sometimes that causes more problems than it is worth21:18
gnarfacethe default should be fine21:18
orcus-deand yes - this will require an usb, you can write to (and not an usb you are currently using to boot a live-linux from)21:18
orcus-denever faced any issue with using a larger bs .. the default 512 byte will just take longer // but experiences might differ with your hw21:19
gnarfaceit's pretty rare21:19
gnarfacetends to be an issue with cheaper stuff21:19
gnarfacebut also it's not common for it to actually make writing to usb flash any faster21:19
gnarfaceif we're talking about a solid state drive it would be a different matter21:19
orcus-deno matter is using bs=1M or not ... the user obviously needs some command to use ..21:20
orcus-des/is/if/21:21
gnarfacei'm not contesting that21:22
DashiePieI have someone who can help me, I just need to wait for them to get on, so I'll let you guys know later how it goes, but I'm not a techie, I'm not a programmer, I'm not anyone who can understand these things off the bat, I'm just a user who hates controlling dictatorships21:22
buZzcool21:23
orcus-dewhatever is working for you DashiePie is just ok - as long you can step forward21:23

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