libera/#maemo/ Tuesday, 2019-10-22

OksanaTired. First of all, Nokia N900 (besides broken microUSB port from long ago, and not-functioning cellular modem since recently) has started discharging battery to such a flat state that: 1) alarm doesn't ring with the discharged battery; 2) LED doesn't light up white on power key press (as it ordinarily would for a switched-off Nokia N900).01:38
OksanaAnd no, the back-up battery is fine: Nokia N900 still remembers the time, when I feed a new, fully charged battery to it.01:38
brolin_empeyHaha, why use the MySQL monitor program when you can simply grep the directory containing the database and use vim to search the file containing the table in the database?11:36
CatButtsspeaking of battery14:09
CatButtsis it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage?14:09
bencohI'd say it's not really unexpected :)14:23
bencohmine does heat up when tethering (usb) for a significant amount of time14:23
bencoh(for instance)14:23
bencoh(as in, last time I checked, battery reached 46C)14:24
sixwheeledbeastWould depend on the load and condition of the battery18:48
Maxdamantus01:09:35 < CatButts> is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage?20:34
MaxdamantusYou always expect the heat output to be equal to power consumption.20:34
MaxdamantusIf the phone is using 5 W of power, that means it's producing 5 W of heat.20:35
KotCzarnywhat about energy changed into other energy than thermal?20:35
Maxdamantuslike what?20:35
CatButtsI have no idea how to quantify wattage to physical heat sensation20:35
KotCzarnyyou know, thermal is tiny part of em spectrum20:35
Maxdamantusthermal is basically everything that a phone outputs.20:36
KotCzarnylight? wireless?20:36
CatButtsmaybe I need a lookup table20:36
CatButtsha ha20:36
KotCzarnyit's outside thermal range20:36
MaxdamantusIt turns into heat eventually.20:37
KotCzarnynope.20:37
Maxdamantusunless some receiver is turning it into kinetic energy or something, it's going to be heating something up.20:37
KotCzarnyi think we are talking two different physics realities20:38
MaxdamantusSure, it's not the sort of heat that CatButts is talking about (it doesn't necessarily heat up the device)20:38
Maxdamantusbut .. light makes things hot20:39
KotCzarnynope20:39
MaxdamantusNo?20:39
KotCzarnyyou are thinking about thermal part of em spectrum20:40
MaxdamantusThe reason you'd consider only part of the spectrum to be thermal is because most matter is transparent to the rest of it.20:41
KotCzarnyyup20:41
KotCzarnymostly20:41
Maxdamantusbut it's never completely transparent.20:41
KotCzarnynot not entirely20:41
KotCzarnyengineers like to approximate energy transfers as heat only20:42
KotCzarnybut it's not the whole picture20:42
Maxdamantusanyway, from Wikipedia:20:44
Maxdamantus> Thermal radiation, also known as heat, is the emission of electromagnetic waves from all matter that has a temperature greater than absolute zero.20:44
CatButtsI am under impression that heat radiation sits on lowest end of IR20:45
MaxdamantusAll EM radiation is heat. It's just a question of how likely it is for that radiation to transfer the heat to the phone body, or the air around it, or your hand, etc.20:46
KotCzarnyi wonder if TDP calculations include whole EM radiation or just part20:47
MaxdamantusI think those usually apply to local areas, like the CPU.20:47
KotCzarnypart of EM spectrum, that is20:47
sixwheeledbeastWhen it comes to processors ICs etc as far as I was aware most of that turns into heat.20:51
KotCzarnymaybe my 'heat' definition wasnt proper then. oh well20:51
KotCzarnyalways nice to remember those things up20:51
Maxdamantuswith TDP, I think the point is about how much heat can be transferred (dissipated) through a particular point.20:58
Maxdamantussince even if you have a massive heatsink/fan, the heat (measured in W) still goes through the CPU.20:58
KotCzarnyi suspect that it still takes only thermal (as in human heat definition) in calculations because rest escapes freely21:00
sixwheeledbeastI always believed TDP was one of those "funny" values where you rate things in the technically incorrect scale due to legacy reasons21:05
KotCzarnyswb: also marketing21:05
KotCzarnyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power21:05
KotCzarnyfunny story21:05
sixwheeledbeasta bit like measuring light fittings in wattage instead of lumens21:05
sixwheeledbeastI know that AMD and Intels TDP's are massively different21:06
KotCzarnyciting cpt. jack: 'more what you'd call a guidelines than actual rules'21:07
KotCzarny:)21:07
sixwheeledbeastI have no issue with how any scale is invented as long as it's consistent, they where all invented at some point.21:10
KotCzarny'were'21:10
sixwheeledbeast#grammer21:10
KotCzarnybut some scales are based on immovable physical points21:10
KotCzarnythan just human subjective finger pointing21:10
KotCzarnyswb: #englishlife21:10
sixwheeledbeastsomeone had to decide where those scales where numbered from21:11
KotCzarny'were'21:11
sixwheeledbeastImagine if the hottest Kelvin was 021:11
sixwheeledbeasts/w/wh/g :P21:12
KotCzarnywhas?21:13
KotCzarny;)21:13
sixwheeledbeastexactly is the same ;)21:13
KotCzarnyish? :P21:15
sixwheeledbeastPeople get on there high horse about the metric system being superior but a lot of times it can be less practical21:15
KotCzarny'their' ?21:16
KotCzarnypractical doesnt equal proper. it can help in some situations, sure, but are not universal21:17
KotCzarny*is not21:17
sixwheeledbeast./join #spelling21:17
KotCzarnyit's like optimization working for some part of the code, but being slower in general use21:17
sixwheeledbeastwhat do you define as proper?21:17
hmw_metalabsixwheeledbeast: Well. There is such a thing as negative temperatures, and they are hotter than any positive one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature21:17
hmw_metalabSo... 0K isn't the coldest. I hope you enjoy the confusion *evil grin*21:18
KotCzarnyswb: ockham rule? or however it was spelled21:18
sixwheeledbeastan example of why fixed scales can be flawed.21:19
KotCzarnyswb: nah, that's just our flawed perception of reality21:19
KotCzarnythe more we know/see, the better the scales21:20
sixwheeledbeastAs I say with things like these it doesn't matter as long as everyone is on the same page. 1 inch, 1 furlong, 1 millimeter. Not like 90W TDP on different chips is my point21:22
KotCzarnysure, but imperial is very flawed when it comes to little/big values21:22
sixwheeledbeastas is metric21:23
KotCzarnyie. when you go out of human-proximity range21:23
KotCzarnynope21:23
sixwheeledbeastit's relative to the scale of the measurement.21:23
KotCzarnyimagine code required to convert between all length units in imperial21:24
KotCzarnyit's just overcomplicated21:24
KotCzarnyockham rule.21:24
sixwheeledbeastThe whole point of imperial measurements is each one has an intended purpose.21:24
KotCzarnysure, as i've said, local optimizations21:25
KotCzarnybut failure in generalization21:25
sixwheeledbeastIt's not a one size fits all thing. If "metric" wasn't invented then you would make another "yardstick" for your even bigger measurement.21:25
KotCzarnybiggest inefficiency of metric is being 10 based21:26
sixwheeledbeastI disagree with that too21:26
hmw_metalabKotCzarny: how so??21:26
KotCzarnybecause you then have to convert binary to decimal21:26
KotCzarnyebcdic?21:26
KotCzarny:>21:26
KotCzarnyearly IT was funny21:27
sixwheeledbeastYou can divide 10 by a lot less numbers than you can say 12 or 1621:27
KotCzarnysee? another human perception21:27
hmw_metalabor 60. 36021:27
KotCzarnybinary ftw.21:27
hmw_metalabBabylonian maths ftw *g*21:27
sixwheeledbeasta computer is a tool, use the best tool for the job21:28
KotCzarnycomputer is application of theory in practice21:29
KotCzarnyand effectively packing numbers is binary based21:29
KotCzarnynot 10th, not 1221:29
KotCzarnyit's just maths, not human perception21:30
KotCzarnyfor humans you can add some code to display21:30
KotCzarnyif we had 4 fingers instead of 5, it would be much more effective21:31
sixwheeledbeastoh you said inefficiency. I am loosing my marbles...21:31
sixwheeledbeastusing base2 means you need more figures making it less human friendly.21:32
* sixwheeledbeast imagines a base2 measuring tape...21:32
KotCzarnyreally, if we all grew up with 4 fingers on each hand, you would grok binary/octa with mothers milk21:34
mp107On the other side, binary… may be just a nowadays computers perspective so I am not sure whether it should be treated as a priority21:35
KotCzarnyit's basic math, with 2 definite states as a base21:36
mp107Yeah, that's also true. Those two states are probably the easiest to differ between them at general level.21:38
* mp107 wonders about alien's perspective ;)21:40
KotCzarnymath is universal21:40
KotCzarnythat's the trick21:40
KotCzarnyhuman perception is not21:40
KotCzarnyphysics is applied math in this particular universe21:40
KotCzarny:)21:40
KotCzarnywith particular constraints and scales.21:43
sixwheeledbeastWell I have 4 fingers on each hand so ....21:44
KotCzarnybut you live in a 10 fingers world. :)21:45
KotCzarnyanyway, nite.21:45
sixwheeledbeastgn21:45
sixwheeledbeast10 fingers world can use the metric system if that makes them feel at home.21:46
sixwheeledbeastI'll just use the most convenient scale at the time of measurement.21:47
MaxdamantusMy hand has 5 fingers, but 32 states: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15eyfRPhuUU-z3cPU64IK-ybP54SZrgxa/view23:49

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!