libera/#maemo/ Saturday, 2019-11-09

gillbhello17:04
gillbi am interested in what shaders can run on maemo17:04
gillbso now it's 10 years after the n90019:10
gillbany of you have thoughts on why it didn't become successful?19:10
xmnprice, apps, wrong timing and price. Done19:20
gillb700 was about right for the best communicator at the time19:26
gillbthe sad conclusion is that market success is not predominantly based on building a 'better mousetrap'19:26
xmnnope20:12
xmnthough nokia was too arrogant back in those days.20:13
xmnAlso if they had n9 earlier to fight the iphone then it might be a different story20:13
gillbxmn: n900 could do more than iphone upon release20:36
gillbother factors dominated, not capabilities20:36
gillbpolitics, access20:36
gillbbut apple was smarter in many ways about controlling access to the platform20:37
gillb"it has to be easy and adhering to this UI model"20:37
xmngillb .. heh I know I still use mine ;P21:36
gillbyey xmn21:36
gillbanybody good with fixing usb connectors in europe?21:37
gillbi saw a thread about it21:37
gillbi tried some smt soldering with heat gun and i am very bad at this21:37
xmnbut nokia still had an opportunity to hit back at apple before they got a ton of market share. the n9 had the best review of an OS. It was ranked up there with iOS and webOS21:37
gillbmhm21:38
xmnthe usb is not as hard as an smt21:38
gillbthis stuff got me researching economics21:38
gillband path dependence of markets21:38
xmnit's not super hard. Just depends on how messed up it is21:38
KotCzarnyi strongly suspect nokia failed, because there was a bigger plan to make nokia fail21:38
KotCzarnyand make them sell cheap21:39
xmnKotCzarny yes, but this was after the n900 had been on the market for a bit.21:39
gillbi have learned about other things, and it is possible in this world that companies like nokia can be attacked by a mix of state and nonstate actors21:39
KotCzarnynah, i suspect the plan was put in motion many years earlier21:40
xmnremember nokia had what 6 vers of there OS before it was Microsofted21:40
KotCzarnyyeah, but maemo was always sideproject for nerds21:40
xmnyup21:40
xmnuntil iOS came out21:40
gillbremember the maemo guy lcuk?21:40
gillbhe pioneered swipe to use program interface for handhelds21:41
gillband tried to popularize it21:41
xmnbut that's my point. They had everything they needed. But were too big head to think anyone would want something else.21:41
MaxdamantusI don't think I would've heard about N900 if I weren't already into Linux-related things.21:48
MaxdamantusApple was already doing pretty well at marketing their products everywhere.21:48
KotCzarnytrue21:48
KotCzarnyi got addicted with n80021:48
xmnwell it was in a lot of tech review for a while. But mostly as a nerd phone21:49
KotCzarnyand was very happy when they declared linux phone21:49
MaxdamantusSuccess in technology often doesn't have much to do with your ability to make good technology, but your ability to market it.21:49
xmnI came from a newton (burned by S. Job for killing it), then zaurus 5500 ... which showed me linux can work. Then almost n810 ... but straight to n90021:50
xmnMaxdamantus, I would say a bit of both21:50
xmnif you have great tech it will find a way, but not if it's not open standard.21:50
sunshaviwas nice when n800 appeared on the 4 fantastics movie or was n70021:51
KotCzarnywell, m$ tried to do windowsphone, but failed too21:51
KotCzarnyso its a matter of a bit of luck too21:51
KotCzarnyhitting the right vibe most21:51
sunshaviBill Gates said. It was a problem with the goverment and anti-trust rules21:51
xmnby the time MS tried to push Wphones it was too late really21:51
KotCzarnyso its not having tech or marketing solely21:52
xmnat the point it was iOS, android and Black Berry still21:52
sunshaviBG said. They were almost ready with windowsphone for the motorolla droid421:52
sicelowho or what's BG?21:53
xmnwindow phone had some interesting aspects to it, but it was sadly attached to windows ... lol21:53
sunshaviBill Gates21:53
siceloah21:53
sunshaviyes. BG said before motorolla droid4. It was space 4 another player. And android got that place21:53
KotCzarnyanyway, fail of n900/maemo was mostly bad management at nokia21:53
xmn^21:54
sicelointeresting sunshavi. any links for that?21:54
xmnvery tru21:54
sunshavilet me look for it21:54
sunshavihttps://www.theverge.com/2019/11/6/20952370/bill-gates-windows-mobile-android-competition-comments-microsoft-antitrust21:57
sicelothanks. will look at that shortly :)21:59
sunshavikotczarny: neon900 and pinephone hw could be a reality?22:03
siceloneo900 won't22:04
sunshavihas something on neon900 could be used on leste?22:05
sunshavii think the sw side of course22:05
siceloand pinephone seems to be going mostly as planned, so it's very probable22:05
sicelosunshavi: there was no SW component as far as Neo900 was concerned. it was going to run Maemo Fremantle, and by extension, Leste should have run on it22:06
sunshavigreat. That could be a great shot for having a linux phone  and leave my feature-phone  at home22:06
sunshavithanks sicelo. btw are you using cututube on n900?22:07
sunshavis/cututube/cutetube/22:08
infobotsunshavi meant: thanks sicelo. btw are you using cutetube on n900?22:08
sicelovery rarely. i don't watch too many youtube videos  :)22:08
xmnI stopped trying to use youtube on n900 :(22:09
sunshavii follow a couple of podcast. Which i watch on my son ipod touch and I want not to use it22:09
sicelodoes cutetube not work again?22:10
sunshavis/podcast/video podcast/22:10
infobotsunshavi meant: i follow a couple of video podcast. Which i watch on my son ipod touch and I want not to use it22:10
sunshavii have not got it working. But I just was wondering if any of you guys are using it. I  think maxdamantus was using it22:11
xmnsicelo I don't know. It just became too much work to keep track of, so I just don't try. I think some may have foiund a way to make it work again ... just not sure.22:12
siceloeven after the recent work by halftux (and fmg?)?22:12
sicelosunshavi: ^22:12
sunshaviyes even after that video does not open. But at least it searches the videos22:13
MaxdamantusI don't use it. When I'm on holiday I often use youtube-dl on my N900 to download audio from youtube though.22:13
sicelowhat version of youtube-dl :)22:14
MaxdamantusI think I mentioned a few months ago that something like cutetube should really be using youtube-dl to ensure continued operation.22:14
MaxdamantusBasically latest from git.22:14
siceloruns as is on N900? i htink i once tried and had issues22:15
MaxdamantusIf it stops working, I'll just `git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` and it should work again.22:15
sicelowow, should try again22:15
MaxdamantusI run it in a debian chroot.22:15
siceloah, makes sense then22:15
xmnif I could search with thumbnail and then download ... that could be work installing again. But probably still not worth it. usually friends with much faster phones with bigger screen can player the video before I even open cutetube ... lol22:15
sunshavixmn: actually i say this "a phone that does not run emacs is not an smartphone"22:21
xmnlol22:21
gillbhello sunshavi do you have droid 422:27
gillbit is my favorite keyboard phone ever22:27
sunshavii used to have it. it broken22:27
gillb:(22:27
gillbi have parts22:27
sunshavithe kbd on droid 4 is not as good as the one on the n90022:28
gillbok sunshavi that was a funny joke22:28
Wizzupleste will run on the pinephone22:29
sunshaviit is not a joke i am very serious about it. Have You tried coding on droid4?22:29
xmnI'm hoping for leste to run on a future smaller fx pro2 type device :D22:29
gillbsunshavi: you should program with a one-button keyboard22:31
gillbwith timing, you can time each byte with clicks22:31
sunshaviactually i would like a bt one hand kbd but those are very expensive for my tastes22:34
sunshavion droid4 kbd i need to press several times a key for getting it to work that turns me imprecise. n900 kbd does not have that issue22:37
gillbsunshavi: oh that would be bad yes23:06
gillbmy droid4 keyboards respond correctly to presses23:06
gillband the button travel is way better than n90023:06
gillband the spacing23:06
gillband the TWO more rows23:06
siceloi do experience the problem sunshavi is mentioning with droid 4 keyboard, but only on the '0' key23:11
gillbhrmph23:24
gillbsicelo: what are chances of getting some gpu acceleration on droid 4?23:24
MaxdamantusI've found the keyboards on my N900s feel fairly different to each other.23:41
Maxdamantusalso, the keys on my current N900 have been falling off recently.23:42
* Maxdamantus has been sticking them back on with silicone.23:42
sicelogillb: gpu acceleration? if you mean on linux mainline kernel, Wizzup will know better, but it's promising23:43
siceloMaxdamantus: does the silicone hold well?23:43
gillbi will start crying here if we can do accelerated scaling and some video on droid 423:43
Maxdamantussicelo: seems to hold reasonably well, though the first one only came off a couple of weeks ago, so hasn't had a huge amount of testing time.23:44
MaxdamantusHave to be careful with the amount though: on the first two keys, I used a bit too much silicone, so they feel quite stiff when you press them.23:44
MaxdamantusThe silicone I'm using is actually just bathroom sealant.23:46
Wizzupsicelo: gillb http://lists.letux.org/pipermail/openpvrsgx-devgroup/23:46

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