libera/#maemo/ Saturday, 2021-01-23

sunshavithis is ouf of topic: any experience with fbterm?03:18
MaxdamantusI used it as my main terminal emulator on my laptop (Aspire One) back in 2012 or so.04:51
MaxdamantusBecause it seemed more power-efficient than running Xorg.04:52
Maxdamantus(and at least at the time, it seemed to be a lot faster than fbcon in the kernel)04:52
MaxdamantusI suspect it supported proper hinting (based on rules in the ttf file), since I find unhinted (or badly hinted) text annoying to read.04:56
enycMaxdamantus: interestingy, not heard of that!13:04
enycMaxdamantus: I remember all the krefluffle when framebuffer console started in first place,  vs  svgalib modes and so on!13:04
MaxdamantusI have a feeling that fbcon is faster nowadays, though I don't use it as a primary terminal emulator.13:09
Maxdamantus(normally on my desktops/laptop, I use urxvt, and on N900 I just use the usual osso-xterm)13:10
Maxdamantuswould like to switch at some point on N900 to use something with proper font rendering though.13:10
Maxdamantusthe bad font rendering is not so noticable on N900 since it has a higher pixel density than all the other displays I use, but still whenever I do end up running something on N900 with proper font rendering, it looks much clearer.13:11
Maxdamantus("bad" as in unhinted—I haven't managed to get anything in Maemo to work with ttf hinting enabled, have only ever got it working in a Debian chroot)13:13
Maxdamantushttps://maxdamantus.eu.org/freetype.png in case anyone wants an example of the distinction, though those examples are not on N900.13:18
sunshaviMaxdamantus: my problem is with font rendering on fbterm. Perhaps I should try fbcon first?13:29
Maxdamantussunshavi: what's the problem?13:29
Maxdamantusfbcon just uses some stored bitmaps.13:30
sunshavii use xterm and xst, and virtual console and when i want 256 colors on the virtual terminal I use fbterm.13:30
sunshavilet me share a couple of images one of the virtual console and the other one about fbterm13:30
sunshavihttps://termbin.com/xmc7n13:32
MaxdamantusYeah, that fbterm picture is unhinted.13:34
Maxdamantusfbcon is effectively hinted since its fonts are 2-bit bitmaps.13:35
sunshaviThen. should I try fbcon?13:36
sunshavilet me check yaourt about fbcon13:36
MaxdamantusYou've already got a picture of fbcon.13:36
MaxdamantusThe "-s5Q.png" picture is fbcon.13:36
sunshavi:o13:36
Maxdamantusfbcon is just the fb terminal emulator in the kernel.13:36
sunshavifor me that's the virtual terminal (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)13:37
MaxdamantusNot sure about that description, but I imagine it would also apply to the kernel's VGA text mode terminal emulator too.13:38
Maxdamantus(which just uses VGA text instead of drawing text itself on a framebuffer)13:38
sunshavinice to know. thanks for the clarification13:38
sunshavion fbterm i can get more rows13:39
sunshaviit bothers me a little bit. And also when rendering the text is slower than fbcon aka (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)13:40
sunshaviBut. When I want more vertical space for inspecting irc logs. fbterm is paramount13:41
MaxdamantusYeah, as I said, I think fbcon is faster nowadays. It used to be relatively slow.13:41
sunshavinow it is faster than xterm at least on my SBC13:41
Maxdamantus(the VGA text mode terminal was fast back in 2012)13:41
sunshaviMaxdamantus: Thanks for the help13:42
sunshaviI am going out for a couple of hours. Have a great day or depending of your timezone (the rest of the day)13:43
MaxdamantusIf the thing you don't like about the font rendering is the lack of hinting, maybe you could try using something like this in your ~/.fonts.conf: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/11ecda2994c05332ac7a29c3545505a313:44
Maxdamantusand if that doesn't change anything, maybe run it under strace to see if it's actually reading the config file.13:44
sunshavilet me check fbterm shows the font rendering with a command line switch13:45
Maxdamantusactually, if you're using a recent version of freetype, I'd also suggest using this environment variable: FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3513:45
Maxdamantus(in combination with that ~/.fonts.conf setting)13:46
sunshaviI am on archlinux-arm. with the latest and greatest13:48
sunshavitalk to you later.13:48
MaxdamantusOkay, good luck.13:48
sunshaviMaxdamantus: http://0x0.st/---M.png17:02
sunshaviit has improved17:02
visionvirusinfobot ~sb17:39
Maxdamantussunshavi: hmm .. looks about the same to me.20:41
MaxdamantusI tried running fbterm last night, and it didn't seem to be doing antialiasing.20:42
sunshaviI am comparing both.20:43
sunshaviMaxdamantus: with the modifications it looks a little bit clear20:43
sunshavinot as great as the virtual terminal aka fbcon20:44
MaxdamantusMaybe, though still neither is properly hinted, so they're both fuzzy, at least to me.20:45
sunshaviMmmm. How hinting could be gotten?20:46
MaxdamantusTheoretically, by using that "hintstyle" setting that you've now got in .fonts.conf, and using FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3520:48
Maxdamantus(in freetype 2.7 or so, they changed the way hinting instructions are used by default, so you have to set that environment variable to get the previous behaviour)20:51
sunshavihttps://termbin.com/ttwx20:53
sunshavithat is my freetype2 version20:53
MaxdamantusRight, so you'll need that environment variable set to do proper full-pixel hinting.20:54
sunshaviI have done : export FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3520:54
sunshaviand then : fbterm -v20:54
MaxdamantusOkay, got it working nicely for me, but had to modify the fbterm source code.21:23
MaxdamantusAlso had to explicitly enable antialiasing in fontconfig, since fbterm has it off by default, but you've already got that part enabled (maybe your system fontconfig sets it)21:25
Maxdamantusfor the hinting part, I needed to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT` in the source code to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL`21:25
Maxdamantusneeded to change*21:25
Maxdamantushttps://maxdamantus.eu.org/fb2.png21:26
MaxdamantusDeleted that previous image: https://maxdamantus.eu.org/fb3.png21:27
sunshaviok. Let me try it21:30
visionvirushow to install the sdk to a new debian?21:35
DocScrutinizer05~sb21:38
infobotwell, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB21:38
DocScrutinizer05~sdk21:39
infobotsdk is probably http://privatepaste.com/e4a5b13fad or "wget http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Readme_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.txt", or https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide21:39
DocScrutinizer05hmmm21:43
DocScrutinizer05http://repository.maemo.org/21:43
sunshaviMaxdamantus: on line 253 of font.cpp I have FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL. should I change it to FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT?21:49
visionvirus#deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ maemo5-sdk main21:51
KotCzarnybest way is using virtual machine image21:52
visionvirusKotCzarny: ah, with an old debian? which version?21:53
KotCzarnydont know, i personally use chroot (~500mb)21:53
Maxdamantussunshavi: hm, no. I was expecting it to be the other way round.21:53
KotCzarnybut for a new user, vm is quickest21:53
Maxdamantussunshavi: in the fbterm source code that I've got (used by nixpkgs), it has `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT`21:54
visionvirusi mostly use chroot, too21:54
visionvirusfor my other partitions, to update em all in oce21:54
visionvirusonce21:54
visionvirusKotCzarny: which debian version are u using then?21:54
sunshaviMaxdamantus: I have the git version. Last log change 2015-05-09 by Arthur Shevchenko21:55
Maxdamantussunshavi: hm, yeah, okay, I see that too in the version from https://github.com/gjedeer/fbterm21:55
Maxdamantussunshavi: were you just running it from a package manager beforehand? Maybe you should just build from git as-is and see if that works out.21:56
sunshavihttps://github.com/izmntuk/fbterm21:57
KotCzarnyvisionvirus: im using chroot on my orange pi which is using devuan something something21:57
Maxdamantussince when I ran it from both nixpkgs and debian testing, I got the same behaviour where it was presumably only using "light" hinting.21:57
Maxdamantussunshavi: yes, that has the change too.21:59
DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB/desktop/22:00
DocScrutinizer05VM image22:00
Maxdamantussunshavi: in fact, it's the last commit, so good chance that it's not in package repos: https://github.com/izmntuk/fbterm/commit/5b48962aa46648a94e3f7460905983021873045522:00
visionvirus22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB/desktop/22:04
visionvirus22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> VM image22:04
visionvirusups... somebody got a installable pkg-config deb for maemo5?22:04
visionvirusthanX DocScrutinizer05 !22:05
sunshaviMaxdamantus: THanks for the help. I am going out again for another couple of hours. I'll be back later22:05
DocScrutinizer05aah, completely unrelated but worth remembering... If only I could... :-S22:08
DocScrutinizer05~phonetools22:08
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues phonetool22:09
infobotFactoid search of 'phonetool' by value returned no results.22:09
visionvirus~help22:11
DocScrutinizer05~phonecontrol22:15
infoboti heard phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control22:15
DocScrutinizer05^^^ recommended22:15
DocScrutinizer05lots of nifty stuff22:15
DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: also see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/dirsnapshot2.png22:44
DocScrutinizer05please don't post any full URLs anywhere or this stuff will vanish immediately22:44
visionvirusaha DocScrutinizer05 ok22:46
visionviruswhats about that snapshot?22:47
visionviruscause of the qemu ?22:47
DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: refer http://repository.maemo.org/tabletsdev/explicit/maemo-dev-env-downloads/downloads/Readme_Ubuntu_Lucid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.txt22:49
DocScrutinizer05Nokia never gave permission to re-host for some stuff22:49
visionvirusaha...22:56
visionvirusthats a lil uncool ;) from noka .... but ok22:56
visionvirusDocScrutinizer05: the links isn available anymore22:59
DocScrutinizer05see?23:00
DocScrutinizer05>>a lil uncool ;) from noka<< well they never owned the full (C) themselves since they got some stuff outsourced23:02
DocScrutinizer05and I guess they only were allowed to use it for shipping with / to N900(-owners)23:04
DocScrutinizer05nobody bought $maemo so I guess this is orphaned now, nevertheless I am not interested to find out23:05
visionvirusoha, ok23:06
DocScrutinizer05weird business shit, nokia didn't own the sourcecode and full unlimited use of the binaries, but the subcontractor didn't own full right on the sourcecode they wrote either23:10
DocScrutinizer05so to donate to community like they did with the rest, they would have had to cooperate since only together they completely own that mess23:11
DocScrutinizer05that's the most plausible _real_ meaning behind "for differentiation purposes" in23:12
DocScrutinizer05~closed23:12
infobotit has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900, or https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo23:12
DocScrutinizer05well, and "Legacy"23:14
DocScrutinizer05lol, and "IPR & licensing issues: ", "Third party:", in http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages23:15
DocScrutinizer05https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo is more worthwhile read23:16
visionvirussounds like a meander, nokia and the developers did, then23:37
DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: https://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#SDK maybe a tiny bit interesting23:40
DocScrutinizer05however, as said above, installing the SDK is a PITA, get the VM image instead, it's official and "free"23:41
DocScrutinizer05In theory, yopu could even use "factory": the maemo build service associated to maemo-extras-devel23:46
DocScrutinizer05;-)23:46
DocScrutinizer05but I guess it's pointless without local build environment to first test the code23:47
DocScrutinizer05I'm not even sure if it still runs or did lock up a few years ago and nobody noticed23:48

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