libera/#neo900/ Tuesday, 2018-06-26

Joerg-Neo900for Suse true nightly build (at least today, we'll see if I get cron set up eventually like I had a 6 months ago) you can get from repo<your-release>, eeshow from<your-release>
Joerg-Neo900if somebody savvy with OBS around, you may help me configuring other distros there as well - from Arch to Debian to Ubuntu13:54
houkimeArch doesn't really need this.13:56
Joerg-Neo900yeah, anyway I may offer this if some helping hand suports me with configuring OBS for it. Also getting that lib for spice would be nice14:11
houkimeC204, C205. They seem somewhat special and they use a different footprint.20:08
houkimeWhat is their model?20:09
davethewavehi guys,20:18
davethewavewhats the status of the neo900 project?20:19
houkimev2 prototype layouting in active progress20:19
houkimev2 means "LOWER and BOB+ here and there"20:19
houkimeafter that we will need to make v3 with UPPER.20:20
davethewaveinteressting, just found the projects site while browsing the web for alternative firmware for my old N)20:20
davethewaveN9 i mean20:20
houkimewhat do you thibk of the site?20:21
davethewaveI think it's a cool project20:22
davethewaveis there an approximate estimate of when it will be finished?20:23
houkimeno, I mean, I feel the site itself can be technically cooler and more useful. Any tips?20:23
houkimeidk really. I hope to finish layouting before autumn but who knows.20:24
davethewaveok, is this a solo project by you?20:25
houkimeNope. It is just i am a bottleneck right now20:25
houkimedoing the layout.20:25
davethewavenot really tips, but it would be cool if the actual status of the project is easier visible20:26
davethewavejust my opinion by the way20:26
davethewavefor someone who is just getting on the site at random20:27
houkimeWhat do you think is an ideal way to represent the status?20:27
Joerg-Neo900houkime: I don't see why C204/5 would have a special footprint. metacollin might have chosen a particular series of caps already, ans those 2 are rated 10V20:29
davethewavepossibly a simple overview of what has already been done, what is currently being worked on and what is still in line20:29
houkimedavethewave: what do you think about then?20:30
davethewavehoukime: better, does this represent the latest status20:32
houkimedavethewave: pretty much, although not very detailed.20:32
houkimewe will probably have a link on the main page to this or similar thing.20:33
houkimeI like the idea of visitors leaving tips in issues section, making prs and such.20:33
davethewavethat would be cool20:39
houkimei also have an active issue tracker here
houkimebut it is more about technical stuff.20:43
Joerg-Neo900davethewave: you know we got the whole website on public git?20:44
Joerg-Neo900houkime: we had a blog-alike "leave a comment" on all our news sites. We nuked that since it never really been used and only gave us headache to maintain20:45
Joerg-Neo900and then there's still tmo20:46
Joerg-Neo900et al20:47
davethewaveJoerg: thanks for the info!20:56
davethewavewhats the best alternative to the mainstream (android, iphone) at the moment, in your opinion, maybe you know a project which is already ready to use20:59
Joerg-Neo900and: and the link there:
Joerg-Neo900davethewave: OS?21:02
Joerg-Neo900or device?21:03
davethewaveprimary OS21:03
infobotfptf is, like, the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see
Joerg-Neo900and now maemo-leste some time later on21:04
houkimedavethewave: the problem with projects is that old ones are pretty much sold out and new ones are not really ready yet.21:04
davethewaveI have funded the Librem Phone 5 so a device is in the line, but maybe I can use one of my old phones for now21:04
davethewavebtw what do you think of the Librem Phone 5 project?21:05
Joerg-Neo900librem5 has basically the right approach, on their press release - as far as you can tell abozt details of their approach from those. For maybe half a dozen topics around making-a-phone the question is if they really understand the implications and pitfalls21:08
Joerg-Neo900I personally don't hold my breath for the librem521:09
Joerg-Neo900what specifically is it you expect from a smartphone?21:10
Joerg-Neo900this is a honest request to help me elaborate on the differences between Neo900, Librem5, and "mainstream"21:12
Joerg-Neo900by listing what you expect from your smartphone21:12
Joerg-Neo900davethewave: ^^^21:15
Joerg-Neo900~#neo900 planning is and
infobotJoerg-Neo900: okay21:27
davethewavehm... good question21:29
davethewaveI expect open source software21:30
Joerg-Neo900even android core is open source21:30
davethewavejeah, android is open source, but i dont like it. i would have a smartphone running linux21:31
Joerg-Neo900Neo900 is not (never was and prolly won't be) about providing an OS. The project completely relies on existing stuff and community (FPTF, Leste) providing the OS21:32
houkimeIMO the problem with android is that it is not commulity-led although opensource.21:32
Joerg-Neo900ok, even while in industry 90% of marketing and whatnot folks think android=linux, this is a valid point21:32
Joerg-Neo900yes, exactly21:33
davethewaveand for sure a smartphone which i can trust in privacy and security21:34
davethewaveand i want to use the same tools which i use on my linux notebook21:34
Joerg-Neo900thus Neo900 never considered "we don't do software" a deficit of any kind. We rather consider it one of our best selling points, since that means we need to provide *hardware docs* that allow community to develop whatever software they like21:34
davethewaveyeah, i am searching also for open source hardware, like the neo90021:35
Joerg-Neo900privacy and security are mainly software realms21:35
davethewavecause how you should develop open source os for a smartphone where the baseline is locked, ....21:35
Joerg-Neo900though open hw != open source hw != unlocked hw, see tivoization21:36
Joerg-Neo900Neo900 is unlocked, by design21:36
davethewaveok, i unserstand21:36
Joerg-Neo900for librem5 this is *not* entirely clear, also unclear if they will ever be allowed to publish schematics21:37
davethewaveyeah, but it was the best approch i found21:38
davethewaveuntil now, still searching21:38
Joerg-Neo900hardware can be "open source" so you could make your own by simply copying stuff verbatim, and yet lacks documentation that would be needed to really develop software for the hw platform. Open hardware is supposed to provide full documatation from schematics to chip datasheets and whitepapers explaining how the whole thing works on hw level - that's what we (try to) do at Neo900. However such hw could *still* be ricoized21:40
Joerg-Neo900then librem5 "special security" hw switch is basically a red herring21:40
davethewavereally good approch, I woudl help you but I have just basic skills in PCB design21:41
Joerg-Neo900there's a truckload of tasks absolutely unrelated to electronics, in Neo900 project21:41
davethewaveok maybe I can help you with something21:46
Joerg-Neo900from spreading the word, to frequent short newsflashes basically just providing a list of "what been done, what happened" since last such update maybe 2 weeks ago (may even be a mere "nothing happened, seems everybody was busy with otther stuff except for Friday afternoon where we had a short chat about trolls"), to full size blogpost stories like ">>What Do You Expect From Your Smartphone<< aka 'what's the difference between Neo900 and a21:46
Joerg-Neo900selected few of other devices/projects'", to server administration, kickstarter stuardship etc pp21:46
Joerg-Neo900houkime: were you aware of ?21:47
houkimethere are a few things in pcb as well which are not really about knowing electonics like this:
houkimeand this
houkimeJoerg-Neo900: of course I do. We've already discussed that.21:51
Joerg-Neo900what's that ticket 15? what is STL? why do we need that? we already had a real prototype to check most placements21:53
houkimeSTLs are Werner's stuff. *Really* convenient. He did them with the needle scanner.21:54
davethewavethanks, i think i will spend some time browsing trough the project, maybe I can help you with some stuff.21:56
Joerg-Neo900houkime: you probably want to make a ticket for an issue you might not have heard about at all since we discussed it mostly in IRC: distance stands/feet soldered to UPPER that go through holes in LOWER and stand on the bottom case to mechanically support kbd to avoid warping from keypress forces21:56
davethewavei see the project is located in germany? is there any chance some of you guys are at the 35C3? maybe a chance to have a talk in real life21:57
Joerg-Neo900davethewave: a great help wpuld be doimg that vrowsing, then coming here and ask lots of questions, and finaly take notes all the times about your reading, your finding, your questions and the answrs you got, and prepare a nice verbose news story from all that, Title "my first encounter with Neo900" or somesuch21:58
Joerg-Neo900hmm, I migtht have a visit at C3, but that's some time until then (though better get tickets now already) - alos I'm not so keen anymore about this mega event22:00
houkimeJoerg-Neo900: hmm. YEAH. That's sth that should be metioned. Although I'm not really sure it the best approach.22:00
Joerg-Neo900houkime: also we need some real theaded steel bolts/screws fixing UPPER on LOWER ultra-rigidly22:01
Joerg-Neo900particularly against shearing forces22:01
Joerg-Neo900I know that's ME and not *really* your domain of expertise as layouter. Maybe you can do or at least consider it nevertheless?22:02
houkimedavethewave: I was never rich enough to visit cons like 35C3.))22:03
Joerg-Neo900damn, my typo rate explodes. I need to find my glasses, and get some break and some breakfast, don't ask me if that's early or late for that22:03
houkimeJoerg-Neo900: ok-ok. considering in the layout.22:04
Joerg-Neo900davethewave: talking about fairs and cons - you noticed /topic?22:05
Joerg-Neo900houkime: we need to establish more chat/feedback between you and wpwrak&me22:06
davethewaveYeah, now that you mention it.22:06
davethewaveok, thanks guys a start to crawl trough the project and let you know what i think22:07
davethewave* I start to crawl22:07
houkimedavethewave: good luck!) Give a feedback afterwards even if you fail. Would be useful.22:13
davethewavethx, let you know afterwards22:15
houkimeJoerg-Neo900: btw you can create and comment issues yourself in both repos.22:27
houkimealternative approach is to use some mechanical reinforcements in horizontal direction (pictured in the issue)22:28
houkimethis way you can control elastic tensor of the board, even anisotropically (with x-axis being the most concern here).22:31

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