libera/#neo900/ Monday, 2018-08-13

houkimeBTW neo900 can become the biggest pcb-related material source on peertube.00:10
houkimelike, 10 videos and there will be a total media domination00:11
houkimethere's only - a specialised instance, but it is a bit fragmented it seems and has almost no views00:13
houkimelike, even my pcb tour is the most popular video with "pcb" in it00:14
houkimethe only problem is that Trending page is a bit broken now, because otherwise we might as well get into trends at some point00:30
houkimedevelopers seem to be overwhelmed with issues as of now00:31
houkimebtw I just thought - we miss a backer honorboard.00:34
houkimeon the neo900.org00:34
houkimeor at least in the repos somewhere.00:35
houkimeJust looked at peertube's - they have quite a wall of names00:35
houkimeideally i might place it even on pcb itself00:37
houkimebut i think it won't fit and will interfere with thechnical markup lines, and wrapping will be a pin00:38
houkimethere is one more idea on this - one can include names into compoents references00:39
houkimethis is quite hilarious00:39
atkhoukime: how can you place 500 names on a pcb?00:40
atkor well00:40
atkit will end up being 800 names at this rate00:40
houkimeI've seen similar stuff when gamers on youtube name characters and ingame stuff with backernames00:40
pribiba url?00:40
houkimeurl is ok, but a bit on a banal side. also not really useful if the address is long to type it00:43
houkimealso from the filming view the reward effect will be stronger if i for example will call resistors by backernames out loud - like you, R15alsobacker, go here and connect00:47
houkimeOne just needs to leave the functional <PartLetter><SheetNumber>prefix untouched00:51
atkwon't that affect the silkscreen?00:53
houkimehmmm... rechecked pcb real quick00:57
houkimeseems like it will, but only for large/rare parts00:58
houkimeit will affect fab layer however00:58
houkimefab layer is virtual though.00:59
houkimeidk what pcbhouse will say though01:00
houkimetechnically it shouldn't be a real problem, it's just about how much additional trouble one wants to have to honor backers01:02
houkimethere should be at least one non-standard cool honoring i think. Project is very long and backers deserve sth cool.01:09
houkime*honoring method employed01:09
houkimealso one can theoretically engrave a wall of names with laser to a back of a case01:11
houkimeeven from an inner side this will be nice01:11
houkimelaser engraving is not sth superduper complex to do afaik01:12
houkimebut this is more for an actual production stage.01:13
houkimeif anything, one can have a script to temporary reverse component naming just for production01:17
houkimeand they will be still there somewhere on the case and all over internet files01:18
houkimeprbib: if url it probably needs to be a qr code01:32
houkimeprbib: case engraving still feels more direct though01:34
* chomwitt watched houkime's video on peertube01:47
houkimechomwitt: any advice?01:50
houkimehi (probably... the hawaian word is quite ambiguous)01:53
chomwittreally? aloxa.. is ambiguous??01:55
houkimeas far as i remember it is both greeting and bye01:56
chomwittdidnt know that!01:56
chomwittkudos for the video01:56
houkimenext time will try to be more structurised and fastpaced since it was edited together anyway01:57
houkimethere was also a problem that obs ate some split seconds from the end of fragments01:58
chomwitti aggree that 'lowering the barriers'  angle could give a little 'push' and love to the project02:01
chomwittthe main problem i think is there a point in time where sourcing the materials cant be done , so in that case the project is from the implementation side dead?02:02
houkimejoerg has a photo with loads of N900 boxes in his archive so there's at least some buffer02:03
houkimei don't know how big though02:03
chomwittsouldnt there be in a project a 'virtual' responsible for that aspect, and shouldnt 'his' knowledge be public so even the roles of the project can be passed around like the kicad schmeatics or the code?02:03
chomwitti think an open hardware project, to keep alive needs open roles.02:05
houkimeJoerg-Neo900:good call^^^^^02:05
houkimeit is just how irc works - to grab someone's particular attention you include his nick in the message02:07
houkimeI quess now the responsibility and money affairs are on joerg02:08
chomwitti see.02:09 stalls a little , but is cool!02:10
chomwittone moment to see sth02:10
houkimeatk does web administration, joerg is sort of CEO, wpwrak did a motherload with actual development of sch and tools02:10
houkimenumber of contributors did footprints02:10
chomwitt  <-- i like that page..02:10
houkimepseudoanimations are nice)02:11
chomwitti mean it's a company and seems  open to the world02:11
chomwittin a way that makes you feel nice..02:11
chomwittit makes you feel conected.. cyberconnected...02:12
chomwittand open hardware project could have an about page with virtual roles, and images of people in each role and links to 'data-sets' related to each virtual-role .02:13
chomwittthats my share of little ideas02:15
houkimehmmm... so that any virtual role might even have a contribution guide attached?02:15
chomwitti was thinking an org file with notes, agendas, code , everything02:17
houkimehow about an org git repo then&02:17
chomwittwe need a file that contains even bug reports, code repository , and that could be passed along in ease02:18
chomwittorg git seem nice for know02:18
houkimeWe sort of have the embryo of it. sec02:18
houkimepure org repo02:19
houkimeit just has a readme for now though02:19
houkimebut it can be many things there02:19
chomwittso it should be written in the dna of any open hardware project , that there should be a http accessible about page with the virtual roles and each role should have a link to a role-status org file rested in a git repository02:20
houkimebtw what do you mean by role-status exactly?02:21
chomwitteach virtual role i think should have a task to accomplish , for example sourcing the materials. So a material-sourcer-status file should contain the status of all the related efforts and the outcome of all the real-persons that helped in that virtual-role's job02:24
chomwittso we need a wiki page for the project. and an about page which i think should follow the layout of the system76's about page but with virtual-images linking to each roles status-org file.02:25
houkimehmmm... this is interesting.02:26
houkimeJoerg also wants a wiki btw02:26
houkimecan you please structurize your plan into an issue to the planning repo and post it there so it isn't lost?02:28
chomwittwell, it make sense to me , all the related info of the current state of each sub-job accessible from one central page02:28
chomwittthat also is a 'barrier lowering' cog.02:28
chomwitti'll try to do the 'post' in the planning repo02:30
houkimejust submit an issue02:31
houkimeit is as simple as on github02:31
houkimeexactly the same02:31
houkimeAbout helping out with wiki you can talk with atk or Joerg-Neo900 on that. there's a real need here.02:34
houkimethe websit is open-source so about page is moddable02:34
houkimerepo is here
houkimeit is not as simple as fork+pr to contribute though((02:35
houkimebasically now if one wants to make a patch he should make a patchfile and send it with email to atk probably02:36
houkimethis was a point of my criticism of current git repos on a while ago.02:38
chomwittit says its a pelican static site generator02:38
chomwittin python02:39
chomwittso there's no wiki functionality in the site now i think02:40
chomwittis there a thread about that criticism the currend git repos?02:42
houkimeI linked "www" repo regarding "about" page. Wiki for now was intended not really a part of website itself (like archwiki which is tied to the rest of the site with links)02:44
houkimeno, no thread yet. i probably need to make one02:45
houkimeit is somewhat displayed in the readme of the planning repo though02:45
chomwitti've read the Neo900-planning page.02:51
houkimethere's a mention of fork+pr workflow there which I actually added earlier today for consistency but that's it for now. It obviously should be a repo issue02:54
chomwittin a way u have 3 virtual-roles by know:  the hardware guy.. the pcb layouter ,  the system admin (little fyzzu his job.. thought) and the pr guy!02:54
houkimeit is fuzzy because it is a flamy topic mainly and thus the constructive discussion is somewhat hindered02:55
chomwittbut i think we need also the 'hardware sourcing  guy..' and the 'economical'02:56
* chomwitt asked diaspora channel if i can embed a video in a post02:57
houkimethere's a possibility that Joerg has talked about sourcing somewhere in his maemo talks but better ask about it when he is around.03:07
houkimei have no troubles listing his responsibilities in the repo though03:08
houkimewith an actual status of sourcing03:09
chomwitti have the feeling thats a highly sensible subject ....03:09
houkimei don't really think it is that much sensible. Like, it is for sure not personal (whereas git-related stuff sometimes suddenly gets)03:10
houkimeIt's just that I don't know much more than we have a significant amount of n900s to experiment with03:13
houkimeand the joerg is not currently around to talk numbers03:13
chomwitti sense thats there are fears that either should be met , discussed and solved or there would be more stagnation .03:19
houkimeI think what we need is an economical report03:19
houkimelike any normal open project03:19
chomwitt+1 on that03:20
chomwittwe should put that on the plan you initiated03:20
chomwittbut as i said where money is involved things could become litte bumpy..03:21
chomwittbut as i also said ...fears not met and discussed will consume the life of it03:22
houkimeyeeep... Money is a thing that separates people from  openly available neo900 layout btw03:23
* chomwitt thinks .. a philosopher could be also usefull ...03:23
chomwitti should take a look at sparkfun model by the way03:24
houkimethere's a strange piece of logic that joerg uses to justify semi-closed state that includes chinese copycats making cheap stuff03:25
houkimehoweer i myself see it as a little paranoidal for an esoteric device like neo900.03:25
houkimealso here's the thing that i don't think backers would really object if neo900 chinese clones will get done ahead of vanilla one03:26
chomwittwell ... if there was a choice in a semi-closed approach i think by know its weaknesses and strengths should have been made visible.03:27
chomwitteven the general approach of a project should be under git !! :-)03:28
houkimewell, you won't have trouble accessing the layout now, it just involves talks with people.03:29
chomwittleaders of neo900 surrander your memory banks to the RMS deity for update and upgrade or behold of his wrath!!! :-)03:30
houkimewhatever, make issues, talk with us in here and we will see where it can go.03:34
chomwittanyway serious job has been done and trying to protect it is reasonable and fair i think.. but that counter to an open approach that could keep a project afloat like a phoenix :-)03:35
houkimeI think that securiy measures right now are unreasonable for the project current state03:36
chomwittthe middle ground should be reassesed and find its weaknesses and fix them.03:36
houkimeNot just this, but in general have more community-centric approach03:37
houkimethat's a thing that I'm trying to fix right now03:38
houkimebasically now the community should defeat joerg03:39
houkimewell at least that part of him that might impede progress03:41
houkimeneed to note though that many problems right now arise just because of small people count03:42
houkimewhere is no community in place - many bad decisions happen03:44
houkimeSparkfun is wonderful03:45
houkimethey try to educate people, have nice general pcb howtos and videos.03:46
houkimeBasically they try to solve the main problem if open hardware - people being afraid to dive in03:47
houkimesicelo: sorry, your comment somehow got marked as review needed03:51
houkimesicelo: I don't really know why since i remember making more liberal settings03:52
houkimesicelo: and I recheck them now and there're no filters or limitations.03:55
houkimesicelo: it seems like a youTube glitch03:56
chomwitton the other hand .. dragonbox seems to be semi-closed but more near to its goal...  that could be a counterargument to open up..03:56
houkimechomwitt: it is more complex than that03:57
houkimethe thing is that now neo900 is severely undermanned03:57
chomwittisnt dragonbox semi-closed or even more closed?03:57
houkimechomwitt: closed source hits undermanned groups more03:59
chomwitti see. valid argument i think03:59
houkimeif we had a nice full core team we would have almost zero problems with semiclosed. However if one relies on community, or forced to rely on it, closing up is not a real option i think04:02
chomwittbut in an undermanned project the 'mans' left dont have the power to hold the world still if their fears are not solved and have put their personal work in it?04:02
chomwitti mean if that project is semi-closed then there is ownership ...period. you cant open that someone feels he owns it.04:05
chomwittand then u need also a layer with the power of great alexander to resolve knots.04:06
chomwittwho 'owns' what and that kind of stuff that could also stagnate a project04:07
chomwittso here i am speaking with no fear!! i hope that helps  .. :-)04:07
houkimenow i need to go sleep since biology04:09
houkimethen we will discuss the future of the planning repo and stuff04:10
chomwittsee u!04:10
^7heoI really wonder what the autoban picks on.14:16

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