libera/#neo900/ Sunday, 2018-10-28

itsNotMeFor those who are interested in, it's from last ZeroPhone Newsletter: "Some Reddit users have asked about our plans for a touchscreen/QWERTY device... Here's a mockup of how the next ZeroPhone version (not "revision", like Gamma/Delta/Delta-B) might look, done by @Morning.Star over at The form-factor idea is mainly driven by sourcing requirements, featurefulness and nostalgy on hybrid Nokia phones. Also, the QWERTY layo08:22
itsNotMeIt is with pictures showing a phone with hardware keyboard ... like ... mhm ... a N90008:24
atkitsNotMe: is there a link to this mockup?09:34
atkor nwsletter09:34
itsNotMelet me see... :
Joerg-Neo900 o.O13:05
atkit's like a mini pandora console13:09
Joerg-Neo900ohwell, Zerophone so far _completely_ ignored size and usability considerations. When they start doing what Neo900 tries to do, they will run into exactly same problems we ran into13:18
Joerg-Neo900and yeah, looks very much like a mini Pyra13:18
Joerg-Neo900so they rather will inherit the Pandorabox Pyra flock of trouble13:19
Joerg-Neo900((ignored size and usability))
Joerg-Neo900that's somewhat "easy"13:24
Joerg-Neo900>>In the meantime, 4G modem research is underway - there aren’t a lot of options, so if you know of something, suggest it to us!<< You'll be unpleasantly surprised by what you find: it slowly but obviously turns into mission impossible to find a 4G modem with voice call feature13:28
Joerg-Neo900also it seems to me that globally the users' usage patterns are changing. Voice calls seem to become a yesterday's thing, like maybe FAX already is. Screen sizes move to the 7°, introducing a somewhat retro-evolution away from smartphone concept back to the PDA, now called phablet13:34
Joerg-Neo900anyway if this guy really wants to go that direction, he's more than welcome to contact Neo900 UG and form a joint venture13:39
siceloitsNotMe: hybrid Nokia phones (and the picture) --> Nokia Communicators14:31
croxJoerg-Neo900, what do you mean with "4G modem with voice call feature"? I thought with 4G you only have voice calls through IMS... But the 4G modem should also do at least voice over 3G? (I don't think 2G matters anymore as it will start being phased out soon to free up frequencies for 5G)18:05
bencoh(sadly ... it's still the most battery-efficient one)18:09
bencoh(and the most resilient as well)18:10
Joerg-Neo900crox: simply put: no audio interface on modem18:56
Joerg-Neo900more into perspective: 4G modems are basically made for M2Mgeolocation tags and whatnot. A few bucks licensing fees for GSM voice call (codec / whatnot) patents, plus some ore pins and IP blocks to design, implement, debug, support and document - doesn't make sense for the manufacturer19:02
Joerg-Neo900more into perspective: 4G modems are basically made for M2M, geolocation tags and whatnot. A few bucks licensing fees *per unit sold* for GSM voice call (codec / whatnot) patents, plus some ore pins and IP blocks to design, implement, debug, support and document - doesn't make sense for the manufacturer19:03
Joerg-Neo900basically some project like Neo900 or zerophome or whatever nowadays had to start way lower, with a radically new approach to the task at hand, reviewing and refactoring basically everything starting with the form factor and usecase scenarios to the carrier networks and generally connectivity solutions used, to the business model and ecosystem19:06
Joerg-Neo900to play a hybrid of BS-bingo and brainstorming for a science fiction movie: new formfactor concept separate HID (aka "keyboard" whatever that will look like in the end), display(s), audio, wireless and power - into separate blocks connected by BT and/or WLAN and optionally snap-on contacts and/or cables (at least for charging and stationary usecase). Rethink voice calls completely, only offering SIP VoIP incl the server side infra as a service -19:18
Joerg-Neo900 RAT being irrelevant then, be it WWAN, WLAN, BT, ZigBee, or even SAT phone (or any combination of those - choose your "wireless and power" module according to your needs)19:18
Joerg-Neo900choose the display "module" you want, starting from regular LCD of diagonal that meets your needs, to e-paper, to AR/VR goggles to simply connecting to next contemporary streaming TV via WLAN or HDMI or USB or dongle19:22
Joerg-Neo900audio is almost trivial, there are a plethora of BT and wired headsets and headphones, or you even could connect a DeCT or SIP WLAN phone device19:24
Joerg-Neo900HID there are obviously USB regular keyboards, portable fold-able BT QWERTY kbd, smart watch application to use a T9 vkbd, or even completely virtual keyboards inside your AR from your goggles, incl voice command interface19:26
Joerg-Neo900meh, I can't do this anymore. Every time I start "engineering", tax and accounting and HR sneeks into my mind and makes me feel desperate19:28
Joerg-Neo900gimmick: smart wardrobe that locates the power&wireless module in your jacket and charges it wirelessly by placing the Qi charger into appropriate position. You could leave the module in your jacket for yeras then since it has no displays or pushbuttons or any other parts that need user attention19:46
Joerg-Neo900for years*19:46
croxso is that the direction you are taking for the neo900, just a modem without voice then ?20:34
Joerg-Neo900sorry, you must have gotten me wrong21:20
Joerg-Neo900SIP VoIP is proper voice phone calls21:21
Joerg-Neo900and I'm not taking Neo900 anywhere right now. I couldn't. But I'm thinking about possible new concepts that seem worthy to consider pursuing, whatever the approach to solve the commercial aspects21:23
Joerg-Neo900the one I sketched above has one very nice aspect: modularity21:25
siceloread in another way, "22:23 <+Joerg-Neo900> and I'm not taking Neo900 anywhere right now. I couldn't." ... Neo900 dead? :-/22:27
Joerg-Neo900sicelo: let's put it this way: There's no todo item on my list I could make happen, to push progress of the project. While lizerally everything is timerotting, from component availability to design considerations and market demand, to my own mental strength I'd need to drive all this23:23
Joerg-Neo900so above a tried to do the only thing I still could do maybe: dream about new intriguing concepts that would bring new life to the project at large23:25
Joerg-Neo900*I* tried*23:25
croxanyone working on the todo items you can't work on?23:35
crox(I guess pcb design is one of them?)23:36
croxbtw, I guess the focus should be now on 5g-capable modems anyway23:37
croxas 5g is coming soon (at least the radio part, the core of the networks will stay 4g for a little longer)23:37

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