libera/#neo900/ Sunday, 2019-06-30

paul_boddieContinuing from the other day: discovered that the fped Debian package is very old indeed.13:28
paul_boddieThe problem is that the Vcs-Git field in debian/control refers to the actual code repository, not the packaging repository.13:28
paul_boddieIt needs to be something related to this:
paul_boddieHowever, the layout might still be confusing for Debian's infrastructure tools.13:29
paul_boddieMaking a debian/watch file against would be challenging.14:05
ceenethere's been no changes since 2017 that I can see14:13
ceeneDocScrutinizer51: if neo900 is now officially dead, have you thought about releasing current schematics/layout publicly? The risk of shady organizations copying all the work now doesn't seem like a problem anymore, but more like a remote possibility of having the hardware done14:16
sicelohey ceene :)14:17
ceenehi, sicelo !14:17
ceenelong time no see!14:17
sicelogood to see you14:17
ceenei've been pretty busy with work and everything, and since I stopped using my n900 I kinda lost some interest in the whole environment14:17
sicelofor your question above:14:18
sicelo05:17 < galiven_> Question for whenever: Any thoughts on putting up the things that neo900 managed for others to look at?  I installed kicad  when there was talk about it in this channel, but haven't had anything to look at (not that I would understand anything, CS  not EE).14:18
siceloDay changed to 23 Jun 201914:18
sicelo19:12 <+Joerg-Neo900> galiven_: look at git, everything there to just do a 'make swchem'14:18
sicelo19:12 <+Joerg-Neo900> schem*14:18
sicelowhat do you use now?14:18
ceeneandroid :(14:18
siceloi guess that's where most of us (if not all) will end up. i'm still on N900, but yes its age is showing14:18
ceeneoh, so it's already been released?14:19
siceloit was always public ;)14:19
ceenewell, not completely14:19
ceenewhen I helped with some footprints I was given access to the full repository14:19
ceenebut the public copy didn't contain any layout files14:20
siceloi recall .. no idea about that part then14:20
ceenewhat do you keep using n900 for?14:21
bencohmain phone here :)14:21
siceloit's my only phone14:21
bencoh(and pretty much the only one as well on a daily basis)14:21
ceenei grew increasingly frustrated about... well, about everything14:22
ceeneweb browsing was very slow, sometimes not even possible. The best browser I found for my needs was midori running on a debian chroot14:22
bencohcan't blame you for that :)14:22
ceeneemail client was also severely lacking, it couldn't cope with the thousands of emails I have14:23
sicelobrowsing is very slow/bad, i agree, but i find that most of my browsing is certainly doable14:23
siceloemail - always used mutt14:23
ceeneso I installed a kind of proxy on a server of mine which would download only new messages14:23
bencohin case you're not happy with android you might want to have a look at the droid4 and maemo-leste, by the way :)14:23
ceeneand I used a exchange server, so I managed to have push email instead of polling14:23
siceloyes @Leste .. i was actually about to ask you, bencoh - is modem working for you with mainline?14:24
ceenedid quite a few nice things, and was pretty fun to do, but in the end all of that was hindering my ability just read emails, or search them, or browsing the web, or whatever14:24
bencohsicelo: I haven't tried yet14:24
ceenebencoh: yes, I'm kinda following the news around maemo-leste, it really looks like could bring a new life to lots of devices14:25
sicelook. i've been promised a droid4, so i'm very interestd in new developments.14:25
ceenein the end, the final stroke was me not being able to bring yappari up to date to use whatsapp14:25
bencohsicelo: looks like it should be working (maybe with a few patches) :)14:25
ceenedon't even know what's the status of other non official clients now14:25
bencohceene: right ... I think 3rd-party clients are pretty much all dead (apart from web-based ones)14:26
ceeneIt seems that recently yowsup gets detected during registration resulting in an instant ban for your number right after registering with the code you receive by sms/voice. I'd strongly recommend to not attempt registration through yowsup until I look further into this. Follow the status of this here14:26
ceenethat's what happened to me all the time14:26
siceloi went to Telegram .. never looked back, ceene. after Yappari days, my father gave me his old S4, but shortly thereafter it lost IMEI while i was installing LineageOS, and then a year later it fell and screen broke.14:27
ceeneI used at least 5 or 6 phone numbers, lots of people on #maemo shared their phone number with me to help development, but I couldn't advance much further than that14:27
ceenesicelo: I tinkered with the idea of porting Yappari's GUI to a Telegram library, of which there are a few, but people on TMO wasn't particularly interested, and my acquaintance don't use telegram either, so I myself wasn't particularly interested either, so...14:29
ceeneI do have one group of friends which use telegram14:29
ceenebut we seldom talk14:29
ceenebut everyone else here in Spain uses only whatsapp14:29
sicelohere too :)14:30
siceloi told them to SMS me14:30
ceenethat still costs money here14:31
ceenenobody uses that anymore14:31
sicelobencoh: iirc pavel is able to use it on daily basis. did you try SFOS on it?14:31
ceenegonna have lunch, cya!14:32
bencohsicelo: the thought of sfos on my droid4 didn't even cross my mind to be honest14:35
bencohand yeah, I heard pavel uses it as well, so I guess it should work14:35
bencohalthough I don't expect it last more than a day on battery with working modem (probably less), so I don't really understand how he does that14:36
bencoh(unless power management was greatly enhanced in the last few months)14:36
siceloif Nexus 5 didn't cost so much - seems to also be a really nice machine to get, besides the currently non-working audio, as well as no hwkbd14:40
ceeneok, so I'm renting a VPS per 3$/year15:25
ceenenow I can run znc and irssi+screen on a remote stupid little VPS15:25
ceene256MB of ram and 40GB of storage15:25
ceeneand this thing has debian preinstalled with that shit that is systemd, so now finally I'm learning a couple of things about systemd15:26
ceeneall for the marvellous price of $3/year15:26
sicelosame specs as N900 :p15:27
ceenemore or less, yeah :D15:27
ceenestill seems ridiculous, $3 for a thing where I can run whatever I want15:27
ceenestill, I'm behind a NAT and I have a few ports assigned for me15:28
siceloyes it's amazing. what provider?15:28
ceenethe OpenVZ Mini15:29
ceenethe prices are very confusing, because OpenVZ Mini and OpenVZ Mini HK are yearly prices, the others are monthly prices15:30
ceenei think the openvz mini price is a mistake on wishosting's15:30
sicelohehe. so did they at least give you port 443?15:31
ceeneyep, the OpenVZ Mini HK price is 1.99$ monthly15:31
ceenebut the OpenVZ Mini is $2.99 yearly15:31
ceeneseems like an error LOL15:31
ceene443? no way! I have like 10 ports or so from 51100 and upwards15:32
ceenessh is on 5110015:32
ceenedns is missing port numbers15:42
ceeneit'd be nice if would resolve to "IP, port 51120"15:42
ceenebut now that's mixing names, services, and lots of different layers, that would make lots of engineers cry15:42
Joerg-Neo900I'd need somebody to "publish" the private git into public git without applying the filter list of "banned" filetypes15:43
ceeneif you have permission on both repos to do that it's pretty easy to do15:44
Joerg-Neo900this aspect of Neo900 project went outside my realm of understanding end knowledge, being a complete git noob15:44
ceeneif you want to, I can guide you on what to do15:45
bencohceene: /me cries indeed :)15:45
ceeneit's adding a remote to your repo and pushing into it, two or three lines tops15:45
Joerg-Neo900sorry, nope. I did this too often already and I promised to never again try that15:45
bencohceene: oh and, see "IN SRV" :)15:46
ceenedon't worry, if you need help or whatever with git, on doing this or anything else, just ask15:46
ceenebencoh: i didn't know about that. Could it be used for placing a website on a random port, browsers would request in srv http and use provided port?15:47
bencoh(unfortunately SRV support was never implemented in mozilla, and I doubt it is implemented in chrome either)15:47
ceeneoh :(15:47
Joerg-Neo900I'm already getting headache trying to recall why each time I tried to do anything with our git I finally got headache15:47
bencohceene: (yes, this bug is 20y old)15:49
Joerg-Neo900I guess atk could do the git publishing within no time15:49
Joerg-Neo900atk: if you got a spare 15 minutes eventually, could you please enable public access to the "hidden" layout git branches(?), or merge them into main public branch or whatever? I *guess* removing all patterns from blacklist and then doing a git push to private git should accomplish the task conveniently15:51
Joerg-Neo900the automatism then should sync the complete private layout git over to the public git without filtering out footprints and board files15:52
Joerg-Neo900or maybe it'S even simpler to allow public access to the private alternative gits?15:53
Joerg-Neo900I'd prefer the latter since it doesn'T introduce artifacts into the whole "database"15:54
ceenebencoh: the discussion is pretty interest, lots of thoughts about user experience. But it's a pity it didn't gain much traction, it could have been a nice thing to have15:54
Joerg-Neo900then there's also another problem: I can't sustain paying bills for renting the infra from my private pocket like I did the last 18(+?) months15:57
ceenecan maemo take care of that? either monetary or using its current servers?15:58
Joerg-Neo900so right now there's a real risk that Hetzner will shut down the servers any time15:58
ceeneand also, what would remain? a static web page and git repo?15:58
Joerg-Neo900ceene: there's no manpower for consolidation15:58
Joerg-Neo900and there are too many strictly private data on the server to hand it over to public maintenance as is16:00
ceeneif the project is completely dead, both because of financial reasons and lack of people interested in it, maybe a simple github page with the repos and static info would be enough so it's not completely lost16:00
ceenethe rest of private data, could live on a offline hard disk16:00
ceenei don't think it's fair you continue paying for things, but also would be a shame to lose information because of that16:01
* infobot is stuffing George*16:02
ceenehidden is 403 forbidden16:07
ceene(sounds reasonable)16:07
Joerg-Neo900the latter containing all the stuff that's copyright encoubered and thus must not get officially re-published, as well as other stuff only available to project members16:08
ceeneI wouldn't mind hosting some things on my university, but I can't guarantee a particular lifetime of the server16:08
ceenelast time I hosted a mirror of maemo's repository... that server got ditched without previous notice16:08
ceeneI would do it on a computer on my office now, so that wouldn't happen again16:08
Joerg-Neo900mere migration is (always has been, so I got reference data) more work than can get accomplished with the manpower available16:09
dos1Joerg-Neo900: should I mirror all the git repos (including the private ee one) on gitlab?16:10
Joerg-Neo900also more expensive than a year of hosting, if you calculate no less than 5 bucks per hour of work16:10
Joerg-Neo900dos1: sure, much appreciated16:11
ceenewhat would the migration consist of?16:11
ceeneain't that basically random files and git repos?16:11
Joerg-Neo900ceene: there's much more than you might think, from a devuan mirror to email and whatnot16:12
ceenei see16:12
ceenei definitely hadn't thought of a devuan mirror nor email16:13
ceenedunno, what about a full dump of the hard disk? at least you could keep it in raw form so it's not lost on the cloud16:13
Joerg-Neo900I'm about to do yet another disk image to local HDD. Did one a few months ago iirc16:14
ceenehow much data is that?16:14
Joerg-Neo900I gonna nuke a few expensive features like daily tape backup, then trsy to pay the ~50 bucks per month as long as I can, and when it goes south, then be it16:15
Joerg-Neo900WTF, this is a tad too much actually16:17
* Joerg-Neo900 goes nuking a few temporary files16:17
ceenethat's quite a lot, yes16:18
ceenei don't even have that much space16:18
Joerg-Neo900du -x /|sort -h|less
ceene /var/tmp could probably be deleted fully16:22
ceeneand I don't think log files would be of a much use16:23
Joerg-Neo900also *backup* is usually candidate to rm16:23
ceenealso .cache16:24
ceenealso... devuan mirrors aren't really needed, are they?16:24
Joerg-Neo900most duplicity stuff16:24
Joerg-Neo900tape backup16:24
Joerg-Neo900it's already sentenced to die16:25
ceenedevuan or tape backup?16:25
Joerg-Neo900sorry I got no spare time today to clean up this mess16:25
Joerg-Neo900tape backup16:25
Joerg-Neo900the devuan mirror is still active16:25
ceenedon' worry, i didn't mean for you to do any work on this, even less so just right now16:26
* Joerg-Neo900 urgently needs to clean out the logfile in there16:28
ceenenot very interesting that logfiles, nope16:31
Joerg-Neo900dos1: many thanks!16:34
Joerg-Neo900ceene: not _really_ huge either, compared to other stuff16:35
Joerg-Neo900at least as far as all layouters evetually merged their own branches into master (terminology?)16:36
ceeneyep, that's the one I had!16:37
dos1all the branches should be mirrored there16:37
Joerg-Neo900dos1: you're the man! :-) So good you always were around, without you nothing of all this ever had happened16:38
ceenenow let's publish it as "LEAKED BETA IPHONE XXIII" and let's wait for three thousands different fabs to start selling copycats16:38
dos1yw :) would be a pity to get this lost or rotting in some depths of unused hard drives backups16:39
* Joerg-Neo900 looks at ToDo list for today: send application to job center to get rent for next month. Apply for a sysop job. dang there was a 3rd item I forgot...16:41
ceene3rd item is get the job you apply for16:41
Joerg-Neo900I wish I'd rather finalize that job I already applied for: hack devices related to Iridium16:42
Joerg-Neo900would be magnitudes more fun than a 3rd level helpdesk "sysop" job for a german food company16:43
Joerg-Neo900alas the food company *pays real money*, unlike all the fun jobs out there16:44
ceenei'd rather have an 8hr not so fun job that i can forget about in 20 minutes than a fun job that ends up consuming your every minute of life16:45
Joerg-Neo900let's put it this way: if, instead of Neo900, I had started doing that job years ago, I could already consider early retirement since my financial situation would be more than just ok16:45
ceenewell, but you wouldn't have met me ;)16:46
paul_boddieNobody ever seems to do well out of doing the right thing, it would seem.16:46
ceenei don't think that's good enough, but hey, you have to do with what you have16:46
Joerg-Neo900that's probably true :-D16:46
ceenei could work some place else and i'd be earning twice as much16:47
ceenebut then I wouldn't have the free time I have now16:47
Joerg-Neo900now maybe I find a sponsor for the dang Neo900 infra and forhget about this, then another item off my todo list :-)16:47
ceenemaybe would want to save it?16:48
Joerg-Neo900again, I can't archive my customer database etc on public servers16:49
Joerg-Neo900even reading out that list for example, from a mysql mess of tables created by prestashop would be near to impossible unless the whole (prestashop) infra is running16:51
Joerg-Neo900I either run this server (50 bucks / month) or I shut it down completely16:52
Joerg-Neo900I'm so much tempted to do the latter. No more maintenance, what a delight16:53
ceenei'd understand that16:53
ceeneat least the repos are available now on gitlab16:54
paul_boddieThanks for your efforts, Joerg! It annoys me that they aren't more widely appreciated.16:54
dos1ee-full is now also publicly available from
ceenea short announcement could be posted on and TMO16:56
siceloand /topic16:56
sicelothanks Joerg-Neo900 & dos116:56
Joerg-Neo900dos1: you nasty wizard ;-)17:01
Joerg-Neo900many thanks!17:01
* Joerg-Neo900 remembered item #3 on todo list: invoice, since last contract had a 90 day cancellation period17:02
Joerg-Neo900any of you joining cccamp2019?17:04
ceenenop, i'll be at the beach!17:07
Joerg-Neo900smart guy! :-) Last time I got fried there17:07
Joerg-Neo900and I only hope this year doesn't do another all-time record month in August17:08
ceeneall germans come to spain to be fried here17:08
ceenealso british17:08
dos1so far, this year you can go from central europe to spain to cool yourself down a bit :D17:08
Joerg-Neo900I guess spanish costa de la luz would be a real refrehing place to be, compared to camp17:09
ceeneyesterday we had 41 degrees in Madrid17:09
Joerg-Neo900or what dos1 said :-)17:09
Joerg-Neo900ceene: well we get that today here17:09
ceeneso if you come to Spain make sure to go to the coast :)17:09
Joerg-Neo900nobody goes to extremadura for holiday ;-P17:10
dos1it's 30-40 degrees for a while already here, which short breaks for some twenties17:10
ceenefirst fortnight of august i'll be in Cadiz indeed17:10
Joerg-Neo900hey! I feel temped to visit you :-)17:11
ceenesecond fortnight, Cullera, in the Mediterranean17:11
Joerg-Neo900only a 60km from my fav location17:11
ceenewhich is?17:11
Joerg-Neo900barbate and los canos17:11
Joerg-Neo900(add "de Franco" and "de Mecca" as needed)17:12
ceeneoh, cool17:13
ceenewell, Barbate is not de Franco anymore, since we have something resembling a democracy17:13
claponthi everyone!17:13
Joerg-Neo900yeah, strongly recommended when you're already 'there'17:13
ceenewe spend the holidays at La Barrosa17:14
ceeneevery near Barbate17:14
Joerg-Neo900I wish I could afford a one-week trip to meet you in Cadiz17:14
Joerg-Neo900driving by Cadiz anyway on my way from airport (Jerez) to Barbate17:15
ceenemaybe next year, once you've closed shop and have a properly payed job17:15
ceenedo you have family here?17:15
Joerg-Neo900nope, just friends17:16
Joerg-Neo900and the apartments are not expensive to hire17:16
Joerg-Neo900not really anyway17:17
Joerg-Neo900for costa de la luz I'd prolly be willing to pay even more17:17
Joerg-Neo900or sleep on the street17:17
Joerg-Neo900it's probably best place on earth to be, for me17:18
Joerg-Neo900for a 8 weeks max17:18
ceeneyou'll be the typical german that retires here :)17:18
Joerg-Neo900maybe, good chances for that17:19
Joerg-Neo900though my Spansih is... terrible17:19
Joerg-Neo900just enough to order food in restaurant17:19
ceeneyou'll learn, but it's true that the accent in Cadiz can be difficult to understand17:19
ceenei don't even understand some of them myself!17:19
* Joerg-Neo900 doesn't know any other Spanish17:20
ceenelots of pisha and shosho17:20
Joerg-Neo900and I don't understand news in TV either17:20
ceenewhat about written Spanish?17:21
ceenesi hablo en espanol me entiendes?17:21
Joerg-Neo900in a few years, babelfish becomes reality, then no problem anymore17:21
ceeneok google, order a metric shitton of beer and pescaito frito for me and my friends17:21
Joerg-Neo900no problemo entiendre espanol written17:22
Joerg-Neo900I got a solid 50 years of knowledge of latin terms etc17:22
ceeneescrito :)17:23
ceeneescribir is an irregular verb, though17:23
Joerg-Neo900after a year, I probably can moan about my hangover ;-P17:24
Joerg-Neo900quel cabeso malo17:24
Joerg-Neo900on loose4ly related sidenote: my homematic tells me outside Temperatur 35.80 °C17:30
Joerg-Neo900in the shadown under a roof and a tree17:30
Joerg-Neo900living room Temperatur 28.40 °17:31
Joerg-Neo900too high, I gonna take action to fix that now17:32
ceenequite hot indeed17:32
ceeneso now I'm thinking what I could use this VPS for, in addition to running irc17:45
ceenei've tested download and upload speeds and it's quite asymmetrical17:45
ceenei've uploaded to it at 10MB/s, but downloading from it at less than 1MB/s17:46
ceenethe lack of well defined ports make it unusable for email or websites17:46

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