libera/#neo900/ Thursday, 2021-01-21

venji10[m]Anybody still active here?15:04
ravelohi venji10[m]15:24
siceloin the originally-intended form, no17:27
venji10[m]<sicelo "in the originally-intended form,"> In which form then?17:35
sicelowell, maybe none. all the work is available in the public domain, so anyone is free to adapt it to something else if they wish17:54
sicelojust kidding, maybe fxtec got inspiration from here :)17:56
venji10[m]<sicelo "well, maybe none. all the work i"> Do you think it is possible to build one by oneself?17:56
sicelovenji10[m]: possible - no. problem #1 will be the SoC. you can't walk into TI/Qualcomm or whoever else and buy one or two of them. IOW, it is only possible if you intend to make thousands of units.17:58
siceloiirc that was also the main reason the Neo900 project got delayed and even called off17:58
sicelovenji10[m]: honestly nowadays if you want something like Neo900, and you're not in a position to make it, Pinephone looks like the only real option for now. WHile it doesn't have a keyboard, there are indications that they'll be making one that plugs in, pretty soon18:01
sicelobonus: it's not expensive18:01
siceloare you an N900 user?18:02
venji10[m]<sicelo "are you an N900 user?"> I am thinking about buying one18:02
venji10[m]I currently only have a sdm845 phone with partitial mainline support18:03
venji10[m]I like the design of older phones18:03
venji10[m]bezels are way better than popup cameras or notches18:04
sicelookay. so, Maemo Leste has done some great work on the Motorola Droid 4, so you may perhaps want to choose it over the N90018:04
siceloit's about 4x better than N900 spec-for-spec.18:05
siceloif you really want/like N900, sure do buy it. It is still my device of choice. For the last three weeks I've been playing with wayland on it. Performance isn't great, but hey, it works :)18:06
sicelothere's no gpu acceleration in pmOS for N900/Droid 4 yet, partly due to the musl problem, but someone is working on it. On Maemo Leste, acceleration is working normally for both the N900 and Droid 418:08
venji10[m]But with a propritary graphics driver unfortunately18:08
venji10[m] * But with a proprietary graphics driver unfortunately18:08
siceloyes. is it a really big problem? :)18:09
siceloi agree it's an unfortunate problem ... but imo not a showstopper. in simple terms, we will never see an open driver for those PowerVR graphics18:10
sicelomaybe i confuse matters - but most of us run proprietary firmware in one way or another on our pcs (wifi being the usual culprit), and this is the case for nearly all the phones18:10
venji10[m]Firmware vs driver is still a difference I think18:11
siceloyes, true18:11
siceloif it's a really big issue for you, then you're definitely looking at Pinephone - which happens to be a great device in many other ways (I will buy it someday myself).18:12
siceloafaik it has zero propriatary drivers/blobs18:13
venji10[m]I still like the N900 because it is an old device with bezels etc18:16
venji10[m]I could probably try to get both18:16
siceloeven better!18:16
siceloi intend to rock my N900 until they totally stop working18:17
venji10[m]But the Pinephone doesn't seem to be that mature yet, its probably better to wait18:17
sicelotrue. gpu a bit old/weak (still better than N900 - maybe on par with Droid4), and the biggest issue - power management :-/18:19
sicelothe Librem5 is much better hardware, but the price tag ..18:20
venji10[m]I think I am pretty much spoiled with my 6gb ram sdm845 phone, would be interesting to see how well all those device compare18:27
sicelo they likely don't. sounds like you have a supercomputer :p18:57
sicelobut you have even bigger problems18:57
venji10[m]<sicelo "but you have even bigger problem"> wdym?19:09
venji10[m]<sicelo " they likely don't. sounds like "> There are even devices with 12gb ram now I think19:09
venji10[m]Would be great to have an open phone with those specs19:10
siceloi mean your device is probably running worse than just a closed gpu driver19:13
venji10[m]<sicelo "i mean your device is probably r"> With mainline I don't have nonfree drivers, only firmware19:15
venji10[m]But some basic functionality is still missing19:15
siceloyes, unfortunately. and porbably zero power management too?19:16
venji10[m]<sicelo "yes, unfortunately. and porbably"> idk actually, theres more important stuff that have to be done first19:20
venji10[m]Never tested power management19:20
sicelowhat's the device, btw? S9? Oneplus?19:20
venji10[m]Poco F119:22
venji10[m]The notch on that device is one of the ugliest..19:22
venji10[m]And ur still rocking n900?19:34
sicelovenji10[m]: yes. daily phone even21:51
siceloalthough there's also a Samsung S7 I was given. I use that for browsing on the move (and, sadly, WhatsApp)21:54
sicelobeing the Sprint version, afaik, it's not easily rootable, and by extension, no chance to run an alternate OS on it21:55
venji10[m]<sicelo "venji10: yes. daily phone even"> Can you use it for stuff like telegram, matrix, signal, watching videos?22:16
venji10[m]<sicelo "although there's also a Samsung "> You could probably try to just delete WhatsApp and force people, who actually care about you to switch lol22:17
venji10[m]Worked for me22:17
venji10[m]<sicelo "being the Sprint version, afaik,"> That sucks..22:17
siceloi've never been a serious video consumer. actually i listen to music on my N900 instead of on the S7. i can't use matrix on N900, but i actually don't like matrix either. signal i don't use at all. telegram works on N900 via pidgin (and telegram-cli), and i use that a lot22:37
siceloi could, presumably, write a simple matrix client either in pyqt4 or pygtk2 for the N900 :p22:47
sicelobut, the OS is really old. better to focus efforts on Maemo Leste, or something else .. happy to be using sway for now, but will see if i can get phosh running reasonably on it, although i think it'll be too heavy for the device22:48
siceloif so, i'll just stick with sway, and spend more time with the config (and maybe write a few utilities to handle some device specific stuff, e.g. i need a keyboard slide handler, so the device reacts to the keyboard being open or closed)22:50
siceloand of course, when running a modern linux (even without the gpu), standard matrix clients work fine on N900, e.g. Nheko22:51
sicelomy USB port is currently broken, so i can't work on it. but will get it fixed hopefully next week22:53
venji10[m]I think I wanna get a n900 now23:01
sicelodo consider the Droid 4 as well .. just saying23:05
siceloactually as far as power management is concerned, i could be wrong, but as of today, Droid 4 has the best power management in place of any other Linux phone (I don't know power usage stats of the Librem5 though, but Pinephone is terrible, I know)23:07
siceloi'm just focusing on N900 for now just for the fun of it. okay, one thing - the N900 has had mainline support for years, so nearly everything is very stable. Droid 4 stuff is still in flux. But it's fully supported in mainline too (actually slightly better than N900 now, e.g. bluetooth isn't working on N900)23:10
venji10[m]sicelo: I only found one droid 4 on ebay and it is pretty expensive, also it doesn't seem to have good pmos support due to proprietary driver23:33
sicelowell, don't let pmOS be the yardstick :)23:34
sicelothe droid 4 has the same gpu as the N900 (SGX540 vs. SGX530), so yes, for graphics, you have proprietary driver23:35
siceloand the bootloader is locked, so you boot mainline via kexecboot.23:37
venji10[m]<sicelo "the droid 4 has the same gpu as "> It doesn't mention that in  maemo leste wiki23:38
venji10[m]<sicelo "and the bootloader is locked, so"> On droid 4 only?23:38
siceloafaict, pmOS is struggling with it because pmbootstrap wants to do everything for you in a 'standard' way. if you handle some of this manually, you don't have these problems (hence leste has no problems at all with booting on the droid 4)23:39
venji10[m]I think it is glib proprietary driver on musl23:39
siceloLeste wiki, .. it says "PowerVR SGX540 (closed driver) -"23:40
sicelothe driver is not preventing one from running X11 (or even Wayland) via fbdev23:42
sicelo"On droid 4 only?" - you mean in comparison with N900? yes N900 does not need to you to do a lot when it comes to booting linux. It has fully support in upstream u-boot :)23:44
sicelovenji10[m]: droid 4 are cheap in USA. maybe if you import it, it might not be as expensive. no idea23:45
venji10[m]<sicelo "Leste wiki, https://leste.maemo."> Yeah, it doesn't mention on n900 wiki page23:45
siceloum, mention what?23:46
venji10[m]The graphics driver23:46
sicelommm, ok. maybe I'll update it to be a bit clearer. sorry about htat23:46
venji10[m]<sicelo "venji10: droid 4 are cheap in US"> Where do you think I could get one from the USA?23:47
siceloi'm not sure. but they were actually US-only devices. i know someone who has been buying them in very large numbers (for Maemo Leste purposes)23:49
sicelowhat part of the world are you, if you don't mind saying23:49
venji10[m]<sicelo "what part of the world are you, "> Germany23:50
sicelosent you a DM on matrix23:54

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