| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: First vaccine to fully immunize against malaria builds on pandemic-driven RNA tech → https://is.gd/lzp3br | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add missing link ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/87196f782b8ff9dec51971f663878f8de7d876d7 ) | 00:11 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add analysis on Israel data ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/e3b18b4bde1ff46703c3d59b7ed0cdb8e1108d10 ) | 00:16 | |
| de-facto | Portugal and Spain seem to have done very well http://metrics.covid19-analysis.org/ | 00:17 |
| de-facto | what are their current NPIs | 00:18 |
| de-facto | really impressive, Portugal wrestling down B,1,1,7 spike, well done | 00:19 |
| de-facto | also UK and Ireland although their decline already flattened towards R~1 | 00:21 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add ScienceNews article about possible lowered transmission in vaccin… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/cb6f6af450443e2e6253a8cda99a8887151117d1 ) | 00:21 | |
| de-facto | UK and Ireland are at R~0.83-89 to be fair | 00:22 |
| de-facto | although Spain R~0.72 and Portugal even R~0.57 | 00:23 |
| de-facto | wow again really impressive what Portugal does there | 00:23 |
| LjL | yeah, it's our turn now | 00:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: The emergence of the B.1.1.7 lineage in Jordan: Edyth Parker*, Catelyn Anderson*, Mark Zeller*, Jennifer Havens*, Ahmad Tibi, Lama Hussein, Shayma Ali, Badia Saddedin, Refugio Robles-Sikisaka, Ezra Kurzban, Emily Spencer, Karthik Gangavarapu, Marc Suchard, Joel O. Wertheim, Amid Abdelnour, Kristian Andersen, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0bPFGs | 00:25 |
| de-facto | yeah unfortunately for the rest of EU it does not look so well, we urgently need more containment | 00:26 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add preprint studying Mayo Clinic subjects retrospectively and findin… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/a6b173fa08f9d582dbb23b057e32996a8a86945c ) | 00:26 | |
| de-facto | although its good to know its possible to wrestle down B.1.1.7 too | 00:26 |
| LjL | i really don't know if spain and portugal did anything special to deserve calling it a good job, though. it might as well just be the combined effect of more population becoming immune (at their expense), plus the natural tendency people are to become more careful when the situation is worse, which i think we touched upon before | 00:27 |
| de-facto | hence my curiosity how they have done that | 00:28 |
| de-facto | i would even say the less effort they needed to achieve that the better they have done it | 00:28 |
| LjL | i think it would be necessary to actually look at the measures they took in detail. and here i regret never making anything of those couple of sites (one from Oxford? or Cambridge?) that tracked restriction measures. i remember at least one had an API, and i wanted the bot to announce changes in measures | 00:28 |
| de-facto | and Portugal definitely did not had herd immunity or such before, afaik they have done well before their peak already | 00:29 |
| LjL | i've actually just added the couple of studies/articles that i had forgotten about and laboriously found again the other day... but then not added again (sigh). though in particular if you want to look at the latest one i added, it looks impressive but i also don't know about their (AI-based, apparently) methods. | 00:29 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: N440K variant of coronavirus can cause reinfection: Study → https://is.gd/l35GS3 | 00:30 |
| LjL | (i don't mean this one, i just picked up this piece of news) | 00:32 |
| de-facto | sigh | 00:35 |
| de-facto | .title https://osf.io/4fmrg/ | 00:42 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From osf.io: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 00:42 |
| de-facto | "September 15, 2020" | 00:42 |
| de-facto | so N440K is also around for long time already | 00:43 |
| de-facto | we just need more surveillance and sequencing as well as multivalent vaccines | 00:43 |
| de-facto | why not include a few tens of VOCs in it, is there any cost to including mutations of s-protein in vaccines (in terms of immunologic resources)? | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: What you need to know about J&J’s newly authorized one-shot COVID-19 vaccine: Even as a third COVID-19 vaccine becomes available in the United States, questions remain over how well it works and if people will take it. → https://is.gd/dHtL3Y | 00:44 |
| de-facto | btw Brainstorm the title would have been "OSF Preprints | Asymptomatic reinfection in two healthcare workers from India with genetically distinct SARS-CoV-2" | 00:46 |
| de-facto | linked from https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Re-infection-and-viral-shedding-threat-assessment-brief.pdf | 00:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-021-00145-7 | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From link.springer.com: SARS-CoV-2 genomics: An Indian perspective on sequencing viral variants | SpringerLink | 00:50 |
| de-facto | btw it seems Portugal did a hard lockdown, efficient and fast, best for economy | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Environmental effects of COVID-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/ocvRWW | 00:56 |
| de-facto | they must have agreed on cohesion with containment, otherwise they could not have done that well in Portugal | 00:57 |
| de-facto | Austria does 1M Tests (Quicktests?) per week | 01:10 |
| de-facto | Population 8.9M ppl | 01:11 |
| de-facto | Same number of tests as Germany per week (1M tests) but only ~11% of its population, so Austria tests an order (!) of magnitude more than Germany | 01:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Togo: +121 cases (now 6851), +1 deaths (now 83) since a day ago — France: +19316 cases (now 3.7 million), +185 deaths (now 86332) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +7569 cases (now 2.4 million) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +4028 cases (now 865545), +38 deaths (now 21953) since 22 hours ago | 01:15 |
| de-facto | not sure how much it helped them though Austria R = 1.12 and Germany R = 1.03 | 01:19 |
| de-facto | i still think the most difference originates from citizens compliance with containment and currently its evaporating | 01:20 |
| LjL | de-facto, poor Brainstorm is frustrated by sites showing a "you must enable javascript" page instead of the real page :( | 01:26 |
| LjL | anyway, the bar is getting lower and lower when you get "In clinical trials, Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine was about 66 percent effective at preventing moderate and severe disease. Its efficacy rose to 85 percent when it came to preventing severe and critical cases requiring hospitalization." and i have ringing in my head that says "all vaccines so far seem to prevent all severe and fatal cases" | 01:28 |
| LjL | just saying, that's not great, people won't think it's great, people will be upset when others will get mRNA vaccines without being in any special categories and they will get an objectively worse vaccine, IMO. | 01:28 |
| LjL | it may be necessary because we can't produce the mRNA vaccines at enough scale, but that's the fault of the companies for overpromising and making countries think they'd have much more than they're actually getting, and of the countries for not mobilizing months ago with more widespread production | 01:29 |
| LjL | but necessary doesn't mean good, especially not good psychologically | 01:30 |
| LjL | > Although the Johnson & Johnson vaccine didn’t prevent moderate or severe illness as well as the mRNA vaccines do, “it’s going to protect, no matter what, for the part of the disease that we really care about, which is hospitalization, severe disease and death,” Benjamin says. “There’s no difference.” | 01:31 |
| LjL | that simply isn't true. there is a difference. don't act like people are stupid, sheesh | 01:31 |
| LjL | 85% is not 100%, Moderna has a 100% figure there | 01:31 |
| LjL | > None of the vaccinated people died, but there were seven deaths related to COVID-19 in the placebo group. Those numbers are small and some researchers say the data aren’t clear-cut on the benefits. | 01:32 |
| LjL | woah, data aren't clear cut? "there's no difference." seems pretty clear-cut to me | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: FDA authorizes J&J COVID vaccine after unanimous vote [Updated] → https://is.gd/95nyGG | 01:34 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add FDA press release about J&J emergency use authorization ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/e406395b0d1b411691953e8c751ef808328eb198 ) | 01:36 | |
| de-facto | LjL, well didnt you said previously yourself that we dont have in vivo trials for B.1.351 (SA VoC) COVID prevention by mRNA vaccines and only have in vitro data? | 01:45 |
| de-facto | maybe there is a reason for that | 01:45 |
| de-facto | afaik they are working on that with those links you added about mRNA VoC RnD | 01:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add FDA press release about J&J emergency use authorization → https://is.gd/spqCSp | 01:47 |
| LjL | de-facto, what would the reason for that be then? | 01:48 |
| LjL | despite wishful thinking i'm not sure i see any indication that vaccines like J&J and AZ work a bit poorly just because they were tested on variants. they were tested in more than one place. | 01:50 |
| LjL | Novavax has such an indication on the other hand. but who cares since we didn't buy any! | 01:50 |
| de-facto | what i meant is that maybe the mRNA ones would also not protect so well against B.1.351 in vivo and maybe they want to have updates ready for approval when such in vivo study results get published | 01:56 |
| de-facto | Novavax is a protein based so thats another class | 01:56 |
| LjL | and seemingly very effective. but again we didn't buy any so *shrug* | 01:56 |
| LjL | as to the reason why there are no in vivo studies for mRNA i suspect it was simply timing and place... AZ was quite ready to run a trial in SA | 01:57 |
| LjL | anyway my point is that these vaccines are inferior even when you *don't* consider the variant. i doubt they'll magically become superior when you *do* consider them | 01:58 |
| de-facto | i think there are at least three effects at work 1) the s-protein variant encoded (hence distance to the VoCs in terms of binding strengths of antibodies) 2) the vaccine platform itself with its dosing scheme inducing a certain temporal dynamic antibody titer building up 3) the saturation (peak) strength of immunity induced by a certain platform and dosing scheme | 02:03 |
| de-facto | so it not only depends which type of vaccine (platform) one gets but also how old the variant of the s-protein it encodes is and at what time one would compare protection | 02:04 |
| de-facto | also there will be quite a difference between primer booster and update shots, afaik people that already recovered from COVID and getting the vaccine later get much higher levels of antibodies | 02:07 |
| LjL | de-facto, which doesn't make me think that J&J's single-shot approach is all that smart | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Somalia: +304 cases (now 6991), +8 deaths (now 231) since 2 days ago — United Kingdom: +8615 cases (now 4.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +6328 cases (now 1.1 million), +63 deaths (now 15585) since 23 hours ago | 02:17 |
| de-facto | LjL, well why not, if it achieves similar levels of immunity by just one shot its even better, less organizational challenges and also (sincei it doesnt have to be deep freezer cooled) they could do one time immunization campaigns in countries to give at least immunity against a known set of VoCs if so integrated into it | 02:19 |
| de-facto | idk what about Africa for example or such | 02:20 |
| de-facto | then 1 shot vaccination might be a real advantage | 02:20 |
| LjL | well we aren't talking about authorizing it for Africa for now, in fact the UN has just denounced that developing country are getting basically zero access to vaccines | 02:21 |
| LjL | so maybe if that vaccine is so suited for africa then let africa have it, and meanwhile work on producing vaccines we already know work very well here | 02:21 |
| LjL | also there is a second shot to provide lasting immunity. with J&J getting 66% at the *first* shot, don't tell me the chances of lasting immunity are good compared to the two-shot vaccines. it's basically a two-shot vaccine like AZ where they also made a trial with just one shot to see what happens. | 02:22 |
| LjL | (they *are* also running a trial with two shots, but of course that's not advertized so much) | 02:23 |
| de-facto | well or you think of it like that: JJ achieves with just one dose for what others require two doses | 02:23 |
| LjL | but it doesn't | 02:24 |
| de-facto | (idk if its directly comparable, i dont have numbers of antibody levels) | 02:24 |
| LjL | it achieves with just one dose, maybe, what AZ achieves with two *because AZ sucks* | 02:24 |
| LjL | the other vaccines all achieve better even with just one dose | 02:24 |
| LjL | it's comparable, we have studies for what happens with just one shot of BNT or Moderna | 02:24 |
| LjL | they are better | 02:24 |
| LjL | they provide more protection | 02:24 |
| LjL | we don't know if it lasts longer, but the antibody tithers are higher, so probably | 02:25 |
| LjL | what IS there that J&J achieves with one shot that other vaccines don't achieve with one shot, except for AZ? | 02:25 |
| de-facto | yeah i know BNT is around 85% or such with one shot already at least between day 14 and 21 | 02:25 |
| de-facto | i know you are not such a big fan of those viral vector ones, but in fact they are a very important standpoint because so easily distributable | 02:27 |
| de-facto | also costs play a role, afaik there were leaks that EU paid per dose 15€ for Moderna, 12€ for BNT and 1.78€ for AZ | 02:28 |
| de-facto | not sure if they were confirmed, i read in in dw.com them stating it was leaked by a tweet that was deleted so ... a bit fishy source | 02:29 |
| de-facto | what i am really curious about is the efficiancy of sputnik, if it really is 94% as they claim due to what reason? did they include prefusion stabilizing point mutations (and we just dont know about), does the bi-vector approach make such a big difference etc | 02:31 |
| de-facto | correction 91.6% | 02:34 |
| de-facto | well whatever 90+ | 02:34 |
| de-facto | the website says less than 10$ per dose (two needed) | 02:35 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: FDA Issues Emergency Use Authorization for Third COVID-19 Vaccine (82 votes) | https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-third-covid-19-vaccine | https://redd.it/ltzug9 | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Johnson & Johnson Covid vaccine: FDA approves single-shot jab → https://is.gd/82WwV1 | 02:49 |
| LjL | de-facto, yes, cost, ease of transport, those are valid factors, but they are not about efficacy. when people speak of vaccines being "second class" or "inferior" or whatever, they're talking about efficacy. to the individual, it doesn't matter whether their vaccine came in a freezer or in a fridge | 02:53 |
| LjL | so all i want is to not be taken for a fool | 02:53 |
| LjL | i don't want to read phrases like the above “There’s no difference.” | 02:53 |
| LjL | which are blatant lies in all possible respects | 02:53 |
| LjL | i would prefer an approach where they target specific vaccines to specific categories: "you are more at risk because you xyz, so you get Moderna" | 02:54 |
| LjL | instead, if vaccines end up being given "randomly", there's *bound* to be a sense of "it's not right, i got J&J and my neighbor got Moderna and they're 100% protected from severe disease and i'm only 85% protected, at best, maybe worse after my single shot wears out" | 02:55 |
| LjL | de-facto, no sputnik didn't have the stabilizing mutations according to that table we found | 02:58 |
| LjL | whether it's about the bi-vector approach i guess should be apparent based on whether the protection increases a lot after the second dose | 02:58 |
| LjL | if that's what makes the difference vs the AZ second dose | 02:58 |
| LjL | we'd just need that neat little graph we got from BNT :P | 02:59 |
| LjL | also J&J is now officially my least favorite vaccine based on "There were also six cases of tinnitus (ringing in the ears) among the vaccinated and zero in the placebo group." :P | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: FDA clears Johnson & Johnson’s shot, the third covid vaccine for US → https://is.gd/DMrOxk | 04:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: New Zealand’s Auckland starts second COVID-19 lockdown this month → https://is.gd/EDcCjp | 04:29 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: FDA authorizes Johnson & Johnson’s single-shot coronavirus vaccine, adding to the nation’s arsenal against the pandemic (10109 votes) | https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/27/johnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine-fda/ | https://redd.it/ltzvd4 | 04:46 |
| kreyren | https://youtu.be/pclDtYGZEAo?t=22 interesting | 04:46 |
| * kreyren somewhat still questions the effects of the vaccine in a long term | 04:49 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: People aged 60 to 63 in England to get jab invites from Monday → https://is.gd/WbjERM | 05:06 |
| LjL | kreyren, sure, i question them too. what i do not question at all are the long-term effects of COVID. almost half of the people who get COVID are going to have long-term effects, and so far as we can understand at this point, it's very very possible that a portion of those will never stop having symptoms like fatigue, or loss of smell and taste (which makes life very dull), among a number of other things. so far, the vaccines haven't shown to cause such | 05:25 |
| LjL | things. they always might in the future, but i'll choose an unknown over a very bad known | 05:25 |
| kreyren | LjL: yes long terms effect of covid are bad, but those seems to be recoverable from based on first hand experience with post-covid patiens that i had.. Rather i am afraid of something like Alzheimer symptom after 2 years after the vaccine | 05:27 |
| skruffen[m] | bells palsy would suck too | 05:28 |
| LjL | is there any plausible mechanism you can think of that would make that possible? i don't see why you shouldn't be afraid of the same with COVID. based on just your own experience you think long COVID symtpoms are recoverable? tell that to the ones who found that 44% still had symptoms after 6 months, and to those who haven't recovered fully after almost a year. and there *is* some tentative evidence that the virus either gets into the brain or otherwise | 05:29 |
| LjL | causes detrimental processes to the brain (brain fog could be explained by such processes), so there is evidence of neurological involvement with COVID. i certainly hope that doesn't translate into "people will get Alzheimer's after two years" but if i had to bet between that happening with the vaccine vs COVID, i'd definitely bet on COVID | 05:29 |
| skruffen[m] | and immune thrombocytopenia | 05:30 |
| LjL | skruffen[m], has there been any followup showing bell's palsy is actually a vaccine side effect? i was worried about that one, and i suppose i still am, but while the numbers in the trials were inconclusive, i haven't heard of any massive bell's palsy epidemic | 05:30 |
| skruffen[m] | i havent either, but having survived 2020 and so far in 21 without following any guidelines i feel safer not taking a vaccine, its hard to trust pharma | 05:32 |
| skruffen[m] | and the other people | 05:32 |
| LjL | survivor bias is a tricky thing isn't it | 05:33 |
| * kreyren sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FUaFaSPYLOnNSIPkumlgiIdF/message.txt > | 05:33 | |
| LjL | that's just bullshit | 05:34 |
| LjL | you don't "burn" your sense of smell by smelling tablets | 05:34 |
| LjL | we *know* that COVID impairs your sense of smell | 05:34 |
| kreyren | similar seems to be the case for the rest of 15 ppl that i track personally seems that the post-covid symptoms last for 4~6 months on average | 05:34 |
| LjL | you're verging on lunacy by claiming that it comes from the smell test the doctor gave her instead | 05:35 |
| kreyren | <LjL "you don't "burn" your sense of s"> that's what i got explained by a three family doctors with a long experience in medicine | 05:35 |
| kreyren | and when she was taught to only smell those for like 1 sec she now can smell again and her sense of smell is recovering | 05:36 |
| LjL | maybe her sense of smell was headed towards recovery? | 05:36 |
| kreyren | note that i gag when i smell these the smell is very overwhelming and she was smelling these for like 30 sec and has 6 of them | 05:36 |
| LjL | you're taking correlation entailing causation to a new level with this | 05:36 |
| kreyren | <LjL "maybe her sense of smell was hea"> possible, but i am leaning towards that being caused by the strong smell | 05:37 |
| LjL | i need to sleep, not to get annoyed and argumentative over someone thinking loss of smell wasn't recovering because doctors were trying to get them to smell things | 05:37 |
| kreyren | would like to see some research on that | 05:37 |
| LjL | sure, research on how terribly dangerous smelly bits of paper are | 05:37 |
| LjL | goodnight | 05:38 |
| kreyren | why do you get so annoyed about it without providing any hypothesis to why that woudn't be the case? The evidence seems to support that claim and it seems to be well known phenomenon at least in czechia | 05:38 |
| LjL | i'm annoyed because you had a relative suffer from COVID including long-term symptoms that are barely resolving and may well be neurological, but you worry about taking *the vaccines* giving you Alzheimer's instead | 05:39 |
| LjL | that's why i'm annoyed, if i were to explain further i'd end up insulting you | 05:39 |
| kreyren | LjL: the neurological issues are not the case, she is now going through a research and evaluation where this is not just my conclusion | 05:40 |
| kreyren | the working theory seems to be that there is either unknown covid variant in czechia which is less likely to have major issues or something influencing this to have this outcome | 05:41 |
| kreyren | which is doubt to be the case | 05:41 |
| kreyren | s/is/i/g | 05:43 |
| dash666 | ok, but what if covid doesn´t exist at all? | 05:43 |
| kreyren | <dash666 "ok, but what if covid doesn´t ex"> what is your hypothesis for that or is that just phylosophical question | 05:44 |
| dash666 | maybe both | 05:47 |
| skruffen[m] | krey have you been hospital dancing too? | 05:48 |
| kreyren | LjL: also for what it's worth yes i am concerned about long-term effects of the vaccine as we don't have any way of knowing for sure that this vaccine won't have any other then this being on an RNA platform which is there for like a decade now and seems to be safe. | 05:48 |
| kreyren | I don't think it's unrealistic to have this concern as we had vaccines before that has those effects from a small hole in the skin where the vaccine entered the body that came to be X months after the vaccination to worse things. | 05:48 |
| skruffen[m] | Ja, er jo helt "pandemiske tilstander", så da har man tid til å lage tiktoks. 🤔🤔 | 05:48 |
| * skruffen[m] uploaded a video: Tik Tok Dancing Doctors and Nurses Compilations-watchv=PbapuhCq1nk.mp4 (9262KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mqGsyeWJWiTzcvmZfpYmtoKD/Tik Tok Dancing Doctors and Nurses Compilations-watchv=PbapuhCq1nk.mp4 > | 05:48 | |
| skruffen[m] | so much to do | 05:48 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "krey have you been hospital danc"> if you mean hospital dancing being summoned in hospital to take core of people as a medic then no i opted to change field until this thing is over as i considered it to be too dangerous. | 05:49 |
| kreyren | else i would be probably a first year med student now O.o | 05:49 |
| skruffen[m] | so many dancing nurses and doctors at the hospitals in 2020 | 05:49 |
| skruffen[m] | no wonder they are tired | 05:49 |
| kreyren | <dash666 "maybe both"> i guess if it wasn't the case it would be just a question of a time for different pandemic to take place.. we have to do a lot of work to make sure that the spread is limited and contained so that it can be treated without this kind of impact on our lives imho | 05:50 |
| skruffen[m] | but this lockdown shit is killing and destroying life | 05:51 |
| kreyren | i came to the conclusion that i don't mind stupid people that doesn't care about anyone to wear a mask to possibly save either my or someone's granny's life to die from all of the inviduals that i saw the world is just better place without them | 05:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +18441 cases (now 3.7 million) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +7721 cases (now 4.2 million), +304 deaths (now 122749) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +4993 cases (now 1.1 million), +47 deaths (now 15595) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +2870 cases (now 865993) since 21 hours ago | 05:54 |
| kreyren | destroying life i don't see as something that matters governments that care about it's citizens have economical packages in place to support them in this crisis the rest might be a question of a culture e.g. US. | 05:54 |
| skruffen[m] | if you think gov care about citizens you should start pay attention | 05:55 |
| skruffen[m] | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/har-ikke-sett-lignende-pa-flere-ar-hjertesyke-har-fatt-uopprettelige-skader-under-koronapandemien/s/12-95-3424094758 Patients with blood clots in the heart have received treatment far too late, and the cardiac wards have admitted patients with injuries not seen in 20-30 years. | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid vaccine: Germany urged to back AstraZeneca jab for over-65s → https://is.gd/L5Z9bc | 05:56 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "if you think gov care about citi"> Europe seems to have a great plan in place for that for example countries like UK and CZ are giving away 0% loans to businesses to aid the economical damage caused by this that is due in 2 years with extension for more depending on the situation | 05:58 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "https://translate.google.com/tra"> it's not from a source that i see a reason to trust? | 05:59 |
| skruffen[m] | its a norwegian mainstream media page | 05:59 |
| kreyren | so is Nova TV in czechia and they are full of shit nonstop | 05:59 |
| kreyren | or so is FoxNews and they creative blending of facts with opinions | 05:59 |
| dash666 | is people are so scared of getting infected why dont they wear a biohazard suit instead of forcing everyone to wear masks? | 06:00 |
| kreyren | *their | 06:00 |
| dash666 | *if | 06:00 |
| kreyren | <dash666 "is people are so scared of getti"> i don't see a reason for a biohazard suit that would have any positive effect to handle the infection | 06:00 |
| kreyren | and i am person who bought 30 of them in Q4 2019 | 06:00 |
| skruffen[m] | also Tuberculosis is expected to kill many more people the next years according to who because of the focus on corona | 06:01 |
| kreyren | i am not aware of WHO saying something like that | 06:01 |
| dash666 | well, if you wear one, you´re less likely to get infected | 06:01 |
| kreyren | would be probably very politically wrong for them to say that without a good evidence | 06:02 |
| kreyren | <dash666 "well, if you wear one, you´re le"> covid doesn't get to the body through skin so only covering eyes, nose and mouth is more then enough afaik | 06:03 |
| kreyren | aldo when i come from outside i take off all my clothes and clean myself in a anti-bacterial/viral solution that is friendly to the skin too fearing that i might touch myself somewhere when i got SARS-CoV-2 somehow.. it somehow survived there and then i inhale it or something but i see that as very unlikely | 06:06 |
| skruffen[m] | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31479137/ N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial | 06:10 |
| skruffen[m] | in the beginning of this top doctors said dont use masks, same they said during the swineflu | 06:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +6 deaths (now 70427) since 17 hours ago | 06:13 |
| dash666 | nice | 06:13 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "in the beginning of this top doc"> So you are saying that masks are not helping in preventing covid? | 06:14 |
| skruffen[m] | studies show it have little effect and can increase the risk of getting infected | 06:15 |
| kreyren | reading.. | 06:15 |
| dash666 | of course, you always have something in contact with your nose and mouth | 06:15 |
| skruffen[m] | theres many studies that show more or less the same | 06:16 |
| dash666 | how many of those were done by YOU? | 06:16 |
| skruffen[m] | <dash666 "how many of those were done by Y"> 0 | 06:16 |
| dash666 | ok, that´s a good enough number | 06:17 |
| kreyren | 8.2% of 5180 people had 207 laboratory confirmed influenza using N95 group | 06:17 |
| kreyren | and 7.3% of 5180 people who had regular mask in medical setting | 06:17 |
| kreyren | according to the research provided | 06:17 |
| * skruffen[m] uploaded an image: image.png (196KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/dtpLccWZZPBKSKOvZxSlGAhI/image.png > | 06:17 | |
| kreyren | seems about right i assume that what the N95 mask is matters as i believe that the virus can just get around the mask when it doesn't have sufficient enough seal thus why i use a gas mask | 06:18 |
| * skruffen[m] uploaded an image: image.png (269KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TByOFLbBURvulmzJalzGEqVJ/image.png > | 06:18 | |
| kreyren | Also what is the particle size of SARS-CoV-2 vs influenza? Afaik influenza is much smaller then covid so the masks woudn't help at all? | 06:18 |
| kreyren | also worth to note that this is in medical setting by HCP.. i would think that there is lot of taking the mask off to explain something to a patient or their exposure to other personnel outside of the presented environment. | 06:20 |
| kreyren | where czechia showed that the cases of just people using scarf or anything on their face outside dramatically decreased the infections these at the Q1 of 2020 | 06:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 725: Eva Harris and Janet Smith clip flavivirus wings: Eva Harris and Janet Smith join TWiV to discuss how an antibody against dengue virus NS1 protein blocks endothelial dysfunction and the potential of treating infections by multiple flaviviruses. → https://is.gd/pgykqU | 06:21 |
| kreyren | https://onemocneni-aktualne.mzcr.cz/covid-19?utm_source=general&utm_medium=widget&utm_campaign=covid-19 data to prove the hypothesis | 06:21 |
| kreyren | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WxtSavZR4 | 06:22 |
| kreyren | also why this was a case | 06:22 |
| kreyren | note that the PSA from CZ included references to the research and proof in practice | 06:22 |
| kreyren | save was observed in malaisia in Q1 2020 | 06:23 |
| kreyren | *same | 06:23 |
| kreyren | also important to note that the face masks are not to protect you.. it is to protect others around you | 06:24 |
| kreyren | due to the concerns mentioned above that the N95 rarely makes a good seal and same for most of the other masks | 06:24 |
| skruffen[m] | https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 rct cloth mask study | 06:25 |
| * skruffen[m] uploaded an image: image.png (109KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/htnrtfjjbAbEcRDKhOiQDlLN/image.png > | 06:26 | |
| kreyren | > in healthcare workers | 06:27 |
| kreyren | again as said before subjective as i don't see any benefit to use those masks in an infected area they do not protect you from covid they just make you less infectious | 06:27 |
| kreyren | thus why i have the gas mask that can make me alive even in a room filled with poisonous gases without an issue | 06:27 |
| kreyren | *keep me alive | 06:28 |
| kreyren | like in N95/regular masks you can even smell a smoke thinking that it protects you agains covid is just foolish imho it's just meant to make you less infectious | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: How this Indian firm is vaccinating the world → https://is.gd/XzuD9f | 06:33 |
| skruffen[m] | Krey: you use antibac? | 06:39 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "Krey: you use antibac?"> no idea what antibac is | 06:39 |
| kreyren | i am not anti-vax as long as i know the science behind how they work beyond a reasonable doubt. | 06:40 |
| skruffen[m] | the hand sanitizer gel | 06:40 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "the hand sanitizer gel"> eh? | 06:40 |
| kreyren | i wear that with me at all times even outside of pandemic | 06:40 |
| kreyren | hygiene is very important to me ^-^ | 06:41 |
| skruffen[m] | <kreyren "i am not anti-vax as long as i k"> https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus | 06:41 |
| kreyren | how is that relevant | 06:42 |
| skruffen[m] | isnt the point to not get polio? | 06:42 |
| kreyren | still no idea how is that relevant | 06:42 |
| skruffen[m] | how bout this? https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/the-bill-gates-effect-whos-dtp-vaccine-kills-more-children-in-africa-than-the-diseases-it-targets/ | 06:44 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "how bout this? https://childrens"> hearsay, hoax from a site without established trust | 06:45 |
| kreyren | i like that it shits on bill gates though i think more people should do that | 06:45 |
| skruffen[m] | Bill Gates and his surrogates, GAVI and WHO, made DTP a priority for African babies. The Danish government and Novo Nordisk Foundation commissioned this study by a team of the world’s leading experts on African vaccination. The two most prominent names, Drs. Soren Mogensen and Peter Aaby, are both vocal vaccine supporters. They were shocked when they examined years of data from a so called “natural experiment” in | 06:46 |
| skruffen[m] | Guinea Bissau where 50% of children die before age five. In that west African nation, half the children were vaccinated with the DTP vaccine at three months and the other half at six months. Dr. Mogenson and his team found that girls vaccinated with the DTP vaccine died at 10 times the rate of unvaccinated kids | 06:46 |
| skruffen[m] | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5360569/ | 06:46 |
| skruffen[m] | <kreyren "i like that it shits on bill gat"> yes, if people bother to take a proper look at gates history i think they will loose trust in him, look back before gates too | 06:47 |
| kreyren | So Bill gates made an oral polio vaccine that killed kids? | 06:48 |
| kreyren | *kids in africa even | 06:48 |
| kreyren | or what is Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis | 06:48 |
| kreyren | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine | 06:49 |
| kreyren | ah | 06:49 |
| skruffen[m] | have you seen the article in new york from 1960s a sterilization chemical in food is hinted? or read jaques costau unesco courier interview from 90s in unescos archive? and taken a look at fertility rate drop? | 06:50 |
| skruffen[m] | or did you see the article i posted here written by boris johnson on how population is the problem? | 06:51 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc"> also this is the exact reason why i don't trust every vaccine i get.. People need to learn to make randomized ethical trials and introduce the group to which those will be given to. | 06:52 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "have you seen the article in new"> afaik that was a hoax, but in relation to infertility and mental disorders being more common.. Uranium! Afaik still an issue in murica due to the tests they were doing 80 years ago | 06:52 |
| skruffen[m] | you can find the new york times article in their archive | 06:53 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "or did you see the article i pos"> boris johnson is full of shit all the time so i don't consider him trusted source | 06:54 |
| kreyren | like why trust the guy with a double decker bus with lies about europe | 06:54 |
| kreyren | oh wait they actually believed that | 06:54 |
| kreyren | and left EU because of it | 06:54 |
| kreyren | nevermind | 06:54 |
| * skruffen[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/bwErqSHGNLuhDBvZPolTDPuE/message.txt > | 06:54 | |
| skruffen[m] | <kreyren "boris johnson is full of shit al"> point is that he and many other support population reduction | 06:55 |
| * kreyren sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/awqERfEglfRocsIIAaNzkAJP/message.txt > | 06:55 | |
| skruffen[m] | the you will find if you take a deep dive into bill gates also | 06:56 |
| skruffen[m] | * the same you will find if you take a deep dive into bill gates also | 06:56 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "point is that he and many other "> would call that fascism, but from economical and political point of view yes this is one way to solve overpopulation | 06:56 |
| kreyren | i consider my solution better, but people like US prefer to waste their money on their pointless military to cause conflicts around the world | 06:57 |
| skruffen[m] | in 40 ish years the fertility in the west have dropped by 60% | 06:57 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "in 40 ish years the fertility in"> yes because of the uranium | 06:57 |
| skruffen[m] | it have also dropped around the world | 06:58 |
| kreyren | afaik that's still an ongoing issue and will be a huge issue for a long time there | 06:58 |
| kreyren | This explains it quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSqk-XV2QM | 06:58 |
| skruffen[m] | yes they will make sure of that | 06:58 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "it have also dropped around the "> yes also an issue | 06:59 |
| kreyren | but not as much afaik | 06:59 |
| skruffen[m] | will see if i can find the chart again | 06:59 |
| skruffen[m] | https://archive.is/kOOsF the mainarticle is behind paywall but you see the fertility chart there | 07:03 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "https://archive.is/kOOsF the mai"> So you think that US is doing something to reduce the fertility ? | 07:07 |
| skruffen[m] | all gov do | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +2760 cases (now 769414), +18 deaths (now 22052) since 22 hours ago | 07:09 |
| kreyren | <skruffen[m] "all gov do"> not in my country | 07:13 |
| kreyren | and if that's something that you don't want them to do assuming that they actually do it then culture is how you do that | 07:13 |
| skruffen[m] | food, drink +++ | 07:14 |
| skruffen[m] | some places they do it surgical too | 07:15 |
| kreyren | hm O.o | 07:20 |
| skruffen[m] | theres a good reason why i dont trust the politicians ++ war loving cunts | 07:21 |
| skruffen[m] | https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/70/1/8/5610806 | 07:24 |
| skruffen[m] | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-05/scientists-call-for-population-control-in-mass-climate-alarm | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US: Vulnerable inmates left in prison as COVID rages → https://is.gd/poQFsq | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast, Ukraine: +892 cases (now 63699), +11 deaths (now 1164) since 23 hours ago — Chernivtsi Oblast, Ukraine: +670 cases (now 54383), +8 deaths (now 988) since 23 hours ago — Loreto, Peru: +523 cases (now 31457), +3 deaths (now 1169) since 23 hours ago — Los Rios, Chile: +278 cases (now 19182), +3 deaths (now 225) since 23 hours ago | 07:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Britain to raise income taxes; splash cash on businesses hit by pandemic → https://is.gd/liZM1r | 08:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | February 28, 2021: The World Health Organization maintains up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. You can find answers to frequently asked questions about Covid-19 and vaccines in our FAQ . → https://is.gd/9TPSSK | 09:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +7662 cases (now 2.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 09:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Ireland: Hundreds rally in violent anti-lockdown protest → https://is.gd/8wx0ac | 10:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid vaccine does not affect fertility but misinformation persists → https://is.gd/iyyR3G | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 27 febbraio 2021: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19 nella Regione Sardegna.(21A01264) → https://is.gd/DTdYbJ | 11:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +8980 cases (now 2.4 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malta: +263 cases (now 22482), +2 deaths (now 315) since a day ago | 13:22 |
| najari[m] | have there been any studies on P100 or FFP3 masks and covid? | 13:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Obesity Specialist Says BMI Is A 'Good Measure' For Vaccine Priority Group: As cities offer vaccine appointments for people with a BMI of at least 30 — the medical benchmark for obesity — Dr. Fatima Stanford pushes back against the shame faced by those with the disease. → https://is.gd/NwV14X | 13:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: San Marino turns to Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine to kickstart immunizations → https://is.gd/57KYsZ | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: First vaccine to fully immunize against malaria builds on pandemic-driven RNA tech → https://is.gd/dTPoPZ | 14:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: DeSantis: 'Flawed assumptions' led some states to send COVID-positive patients to nursing homes → https://is.gd/4Gd8PO | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: More than 20 million in UK have had first jab - Hancock → https://is.gd/ou3fXa | 15:34 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Cerimonia di giuramento dei Sottosegretari di Stato ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/cerimonia-di-giuramento-dei-sottosegretari-di-stato/16334 ) | 15:45 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +8133 cases (now 2.4 million), +14 deaths (now 70435) since 23 hours ago | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Covid vaccine: More than 20 million people in UK have now received first dose → https://is.gd/Df8A7c | 16:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +4771 cases (now 1.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Sunday 28 February 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/3yupu5 | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +241 deaths (now 122831) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +35 deaths (now 21966) since 23 hours ago | 18:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel authorizes plan to vaccinate over 120,000 Palestinian workers → https://is.gd/oscp0Y | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +17440 cases (now 2.9 million), +192 deaths (now 97699) since 23 hours ago | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +5709 cases (now 4.2 million), +174 deaths (now 122879) since 17 hours ago | 20:05 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: New COVID-19 variants found in New York, California (81 votes) | https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/02/new-covid-19-variants-found-new-york-california | https://redd.it/luiv91 | 20:16 |
| darsie | TIL New York is in California. | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moldova Receives First COVID-19 Shots From Romania → https://is.gd/PdpXqI | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Finland Had a Patent-Free COVID-19 Vaccine Nine Months Ago — But Still Went With Big Pharma → https://is.gd/BaWGmP | 21:47 |
| de-facto | darsie, it is thanks to passenger air-traveling still tolerated | 21:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +10400 cases (now 3.7 million) since 21 hours ago — Germany: +6852 cases (now 2.4 million), +45 deaths (now 70466) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +1484 cases (now 867029), +24 deaths (now 21977) since 21 hours ago | 22:21 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: Covid vaccine: More than 20 million people in UK have now received first dose (10142 votes) | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/covid-vaccine-first-dose-uk-jab-b1808757.html | https://redd.it/luhn6h | 22:35 |
| LjL | ... and less than 8 million have received a dose in the whole EU, 27 countries, with at least 3 or 4 the size of the UK | 22:58 |
| rmonten[m] | So after several of the contracts leaked, is there any clear reason why the EU is getting so few vaccines in comparison to UK and US? It's been 2 months now and I haven't seen 1 vaccination center running at capacity in the EU. | 23:14 |
| rmonten[m] | Is it because there's no enforcement mechanism? | 23:15 |
| rmonten[m] | This article does seem to suggest so. https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ | 23:25 |
| LjL | rmonten[m], i haven't seen any analysis of the contracts. i didn't know they were leaked, but even then i'm probably not qualified to understand how "enforceable" they are. the only contract i knew about was the one officially released with Pfizer, which was full of censored parts | 23:44 |
| LjL | "This core difference, according to a lawyer familiar with the development of the U.K. text, can be chalked up to the fact that the contract sealed with London was written by people with significant experience of purchasing agreements, specifically drug-buying deals. The European Commission’s contract, by contrast, shows a lack of commercial common sense, in the lawyer’s view." | 23:47 |
| LjL | this certainly doesn't sound impressive. | 23:47 |
| rmonten[m] | Yes, sounds pretty damaging. Certainly for an institution with such a reputation of being technocratic | 23:48 |
| rmonten[m] | The EU-AZ contract is actually on the RAI website https://www.rai.it/dl/doc/2021/02/19/1613725900577_AZ_FIRMATO_REPORT.pdf | 23:48 |
| rmonten[m] | And here's a redacted version of the UK-AZ contract https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Notice/SupplierAttachment/77bb967f-0194-452a-bdae-9999aecc753d | 23:49 |
| LjL | well as a simple citizen, even before reading this, i ask myself, what makes those 27 countries all different from the UK, and the answer is just one: the UK is no longer in the EU | 23:49 |
| rmonten[m] | not that I'd understand the legalese either | 23:49 |
| LjL | and i was always against Brexit, but it's hard not to notice this fact. | 23:49 |
| rmonten[m] | True | 23:49 |
| LjL | ah, Report. that's a RAI program that gets sued a lot | 23:49 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 23:50 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 4.2 million confirmed cases (6.3% of the population) and 122879 deaths (2.9% of cases) as of 3 hours ago. 89.2 million tests were performed (4.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 23:51 |
| rmonten[m] | LjL: getting sued a lot in a good way or in a bad way? | 23:53 |
| rmonten[m] | meaning, are they challenging the establishment or are they just crossing the line all the time | 23:54 |
| LjL | rmonten[m], in a good way, although it seemingly caused its original host to leave / get fired, and now it feels a fair bit more tabloid-y than with the old host. anyway, it makes me think it's too easy in italy to sue for defamation effectively enough to disrupt high-profile investigative journalism. | 23:55 |
| LjL | rmonten[m], well RAI is government-run, so "challenging the establishment" can probably only be to a certain extent, but that's what they seem to be doing | 23:55 |
| LjL | i'm not implying otherwise, just saying i can't know the behind the scenes | 23:56 |
| rmonten[m] | Right | 23:56 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
