freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-05-29

bozoniusI realize ascii will be out soon, but is there a newer libreoffice for jessie?00:01
golinuxbozonius: In backports maybe00:05
bozoniusthanks, golinux.  I tried that... nope.00:06
bozoniusOK, I'll have to wait for ascii00:06
muepI would expect the flatpak package from flathub to work on jessie00:07
muepof course it's not a .deb but libreoffice does not do that much deep interaction with the OS anyway00:08
muepat least it installs and starts OK on jessie here00:10
golinuxflatpaks are a disease and a great way to bloat your system00:10
muepI prefer them over deviating far from a well tested combination of packages that the OS otherwise has00:11
muepit's less likely to cause trouble than upgrading libfoo and libbar and some language runtime in order to run some recently released thing00:12
KatolaZmuep: it's easy to upgrade to ascii00:13
muepbut sure they do take disk space compared to packages that make use of other distro packages to the fullest00:13
KatolaZthey just make useless the concept of distro, IMHO00:13
bozoniusis it ascii yet?  :D00:13
KatolaZbozonius: ?00:13
KatolaZascii RC was out 2 weeks ago00:13
KatolaZthere is only one minor glitch known and fixed00:14
KatolaZRC2 will be out very soon00:14
bozoniusI mean the GA00:14
KatolaZwhat is the GA?00:14
specingWhat people don't realise is that flatpak is a distro00:14
bozoniusI really appreciate the care you are all taking before releasing ascii00:14
KatolaZbozonius: o_O?00:15
bozoniusGA=general availabilty release00:15
bozoniusIOW, the "official"00:15
KatolaZbozonius: please read above00:15
bozoniusI saw it00:16
KatolaZbozonius: you can already upgrade00:16
bozoniusI know00:16
KatolaZand won't have any issue00:16
* bozonius ALWAYS has an issue... duh!00:17
bozoniusthey always find me00:17
muepat least the number of issues it not expected to differ much between now and official release00:17
KatolaZthen it won't be different with the final stable00:18
KatolaZso there is no reason to wait: same outcome :)00:18
bozoniusso how many times have I come here with some weird problem or another that no one can reproduce or some package no one else really uses.  I tell ya.  ALways have a problem...00:19
bozoniusI can almost guarantee I will have a broken something or another when you release ascii00:19
* KatolaZ shrugs00:20
bozonius(sorry, KatolaZ.  I know you are very excited about this.)00:21
bozoniusI just know my own self too well...00:21
bozoniusI seem to be able to attract problems no one else could even dream of00:21
bozoniusit's this affliction I have00:21
bozoniusthe computer gods do not favor me, KatolaZ.  I have no idea why.00:21
fsmithredbozonius, you got a window manager or a full-blown DE?00:21
fsmithredshould go well00:22
bozoniusYes, it should.  It reeeeeeeeally should go well.00:22
fsmithredI'm actually upgrading a refracta jessie right now00:22
fsmithredI usually don't upgrade my main system. I just start fresh on another partition.00:23
bozoniusme too.  I don't want to touch my jessie, other than to do jessie updates.00:24
bozoniusJessie is about the most stable thing I have around here.00:24
fsmithredI understand. (I guess I can replace my wheezy that I haven't booted in a couple years.)00:25
freemfsmithred, you have a problem on an upgrade?00:29
fsmithreddon't know yet00:29
fsmithredit's still downloading00:29
freemmaybe a bad click, sorry.00:30
freembozonius, upgrade problem -.-'00:30
fsmithredjust doing a test here00:30
freemI'm sorry, I did not follow the discussion00:30
fsmithredthat's ok00:30
freemis the problem still here? I guess from the 20 last lines that yes?00:31
fsmithredno, it's only an anticipated problem00:31
bozoniusI think the technical term is "paranoia"00:31
freemmay I help in any way then?00:32
fsmithredI did almost use that word a little while ago00:32
bozoniuslike this:
bozoniusfreem:  I probably need a shrink.00:32
bozoniusTo think I used to enjoy working with computers and software...00:33
freemhum, sorry then, I thought there was something I could help with :)00:33
bozoniuspills then?00:33
freemwhy can't you enjoy code?00:34
freemoh sorry I meant computers and sofwares00:34
bozonius(I got it, freem)00:35
bozoniusburn out, probably00:35
freemwhich does not say why00:35
bozoniusrather not go there, please00:35
bozoniusfsmithred:  Has it broken?00:36
freemas you wish, but, let me say that people almost made me hate real coding stuff00:36
bozoniusOr could it still be just teasing you?00:36
freemand they never could put  down the fire00:37
freemI don't care00:37
freemI don't code for others: I code for myself, and share with others.00:37
bozoniusfsmithred:  Please tell me it broke so I can be right for once.00:37
* bozonius wants to be right just once. It would make him feel better.00:38
freemno, you'll never be right to hate code.00:38
freemThe Code is the only way to do things while doing nothing after all00:39
bozonius(I wasn't talking about that)00:40
bozoniusI was trying to find out if fsmithred's download worked00:40
freemI guess.... it's a fail?00:41
fsmithredbozonius, it's still unpacking and setting up00:49
bozoniusthere is hope then, fsmithred01:22
bozoniusjust an update.  It turns out the latest libreoffice does not fix the mail-merge issue either.02:55
bozoniusSo no rush for ascii...02:55
fsmithredstill unpacking here. Why is vbox so slow?02:57
fsmithred bozonius, wicd and blueman failed to configure until after rebooting into the new kernel.05:04
Criggiesounds like three world-renound scientists...05:08
Criggiefsmithred: I only reboot when there's a couple of hours spare for phaffing about .   None of this "I'll just quickly...."05:20
CriggieLost my old UD database sadly05:20
fsmithredI started this upgrade about 5 hours ago05:20
Criggiebut a desktop with no UPS that routinely stayed up for a year at a time... pretty good05:20
Criggiesince Devuan, the longest is only 67 days05:21
fsmithredI have to reboot more often than that for dust removal05:21
CriggieI don't shut down for cleaning - I keep the front panel fairly clean05:21
CriggieTry putting case on a desk, not on the floor ?05:21
fsmithredit's on the desk05:22
fsmithreddusty place05:22
CriggieMine's a SFF HP, so I can clean the CPU heatsink with the machine running05:22
Criggieshould I feel that particular need.05:22
fsmithredthis is just a test upgrade in a VM. I've rebooted a couple times while we were talking05:24
fsmithredhow do I get synaptic to ask me for a password before it opens?05:28
fsmithredthis is the reverse problem that everyone else has.05:28
DocScrutinizer05reverse problem?05:28
fsmithredI already installed policykit-1-gnome, which fixed the more common problem05:28
fsmithredyeah, click on synaptic in menu and nothing happens05:29
fsmithredthat got fixed05:29
DocScrutinizer05by sudo?05:29
fsmithredbut something different I did in refracta jessie makes it start from the menu without bothering to ask for password05:29
fsmithredno sudo05:29
DocScrutinizer05then I have no idea how that works05:30
fsmithredit's some pam and policykit stuff05:30
fsmithredyeah, you don't want to know05:31
DocScrutinizer05pam is ok, policykit though, errrm05:31
DocScrutinizer05anyway the permissions handling in all debianoid distros is fubar05:32
DocScrutinizer05ask for user password to get root, *W*T*F*05:32
fsmithredthat's not the default05:33
fsmithredthat's an ubuntu infection05:34
DocScrutinizer05ooh didn't know05:34
DocScrutinizer05anyway >> sed -e "s/Defaults env_reset/Defaults env_reset\nDefaults targetpw/; s+user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot+user ALL = PASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot+"  -i  /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo update-sudoers <<05:37
DocScrutinizer05maemo ^^^05:38
fsmithredon systems with just a wm I give the user sudo privs for shutdown, reboot and sometimes a few other things05:38
DocScrutinizer05then see sudo --askpass05:39
fsmithredwell, I'd like this to work in xfce the way it's supposed to work.05:39
fsmithredit works correctly in devuan ascii (task-xfce-desktop installed)05:39
DocScrutinizer05sorry no idea about polkit05:40
fsmithredbut not in my upgraded refracta with xfce installed in parts05:40
DocScrutinizer05I used it to further restrict permissions of a process so far, if anything05:40
DocScrutinizer05my main encounter with polkit was when I looked into making a kiosk-mode system for a customer05:41
fsmithredtime for sleep here. g'night05:45
arminanything to consider when installing devuan via debootstrap?10:32
gnarfacearmin: there was some bug with fdisk and rsyslog in ascii but it may have been fixed10:58
gnarfacei had to exclude both and switch them in later10:58
gnarfacethat was months ago now though10:58
armingnarface: great advise, thanks a lot!11:11
KatolaZarmin: there is no problem to install via debootstrap11:43
Juestowhy is the pre filesystem/initrd very bare bones?17:11
Juestoit's lacking fsck17:11
debdoglsinitramfs /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-6-amd64 | grep fsck17:13
debdogwhich version? Juesto17:13
KatolaZJuesto: which version?17:13
KatolaZJuesto: the initrd this days is quite huge TBH17:14
KatolaZtoo huge17:14
Juestodevuan ascii17:16
Juestonot sure which version17:16
debdogmy output is from Ascii, too. how did you determine it's missing?17:17
Juestobecause it mentions it won't check the rootfs and fails if the fs isn't okay17:17
KatolaZJuesto: uh?17:17
debdogwhich fs?17:17
KatolaZJuesto: which kind of FS?17:18
debdogrootfs as in "FS of /" or initram's tempfs?17:20
Juestoit's missing fsck debdog17:20
Juesto the / of the installed system17:20
KatolaZJuesto: that's at least strange, to not sat impossible17:20
Juestoyeah dead infobot17:21
debdogok, back to: <KatolaZ> Juesto: which kind of FS?  --  which file system is used on that partition?17:25
debdogwhat does "update-initramfs -u -k all" return?17:26
KatolaZJuesto: is it missing from initrd or from the installed system?17:26
debdoggood point17:26
Juestolsinitramfs -l /initrd.img
Juesto4.9.0-6-amd64 kernel17:32
KatolaZJuesto: what is the name of the file linked by /initrd.img?17:33
debdogalso: "ls /sbin/*fsck*"17:34
JuestoKatolaZ: can't assume by the kernel version?17:34
KatolaZno Juesto17:34
debdogls -la /initrd.img17:34
KatolaZJuesto: how did you install that box?17:34
KatolaZ(which ascii install medium did you use?)17:34
Juestodebdog: i do have fsck under the installed system but not in the iniramfs shell17:34
Juestovm image because it's plug and play apparently17:35
KatolaZwhich vm image?17:35
Juestomaemo leste17:36
KatolaZparazyd: ^^^^17:36
KatolaZ(Juesto: maemo leste is not released by devuan)17:36
Juestowell I'm not going to do useless noise on #maemo-leste17:37
Juestoi should pm parazyd17:37
KatolaZ #maemo-leste is precious, #devuan is not :D17:37
JuestoKatolaZ: leste ships with devuan/debian initramfs stuff17:48
Juestodebdog: i updated the initramfs and still no fsck, command i ran update-initramfs -u -k all17:53
debdog<KatolaZ> Juesto: what is the name of the file linked by /initrd.img?17:56
debdogaside from that, I am running out of ideas17:56
debdogor someting is different in /etc/initramfs-tools/17:57
Juestopackage is version 0.13018:01
KatolaZno Juesto18:02
KatolaZI don't know what maemo leste ships with18:02
KatolaZI can guarantee for the images you donwload from http://files.devuan.org18:02
KatolaZnot for any derivative out there18:03
KatolaZit might well be that maemo leste provided a different initrd18:03
KatolaZthe initrd of images available at all have fsck18:03
KatolaZJuesto: since it's a devuan/debian stuff, as you say, try to ask the same question on the #debian channel18:04
KatolaZand see what the response will be...18:04
Juestoparazyd: confirm please?18:05
parazydyes, ask in #debian.18:05
parazydleste does not modify the initrams, nor does devuan18:05
JuestoI'm trying to resolve this, not face burocracy stuff18:06
KatolaZJuesto: only minimal-live has a modified initrd18:06
KatolaZand it just removes unused kernel drivers, not executbles18:06
Juestoi have logged the verbose process and no mention of executables other than busybox18:19
Juestoit includes btrfs but not fsck18:20
Juestonothing after calling hook fsck18:20
Juestocan anyone please try to generate a fresh initramfs separately from your usual image?18:58
Juestowhy is devuan version outdated19:05
Juestooh wait19:05
Juestoparazyd: lame, asking in #debian results in being told to reinstall19:07
JuestoKatolaZ: they don't support forks19:08
Juesto<t3st3r> it is, but it default configuration could be changed by maintainers hell a lot19:08
Juestodebdog: so apparently debian can't help19:10
Juestosid and buster are the ones on 0.130 of initramfs tools19:12
blinkdogsorry Juesto, I just came in, what are you searching for?19:16
Juestoblinkdog: issues with initramfs image not adding fsck please scrollup.19:17
Juesto#debian wont help19:17
blinkdoghmmm, I don't know enough about initramfs to help, at least off the top of my head19:18
Juestoapparently my system hard drive is recognized as a raid6 when it's a single laptop drive19:22
Juestoit's including btrfs for some reason19:22
Juestoplease someone else try to generate a fresh initramfs?19:31
msiismJuesto: i've temporarily put my testing laptop out of order by taking it apart completely and then putting it back together, so i can't help you right now, sorry.19:52
Juestomsiism: did i ask for your help directly? no. but thanks for the information19:53
msiismJuesto: no, i just wanted to be nice :D19:53
Juestooh okay19:53
fsmithredJuesto, I just generated a new initramfs, and it contains fsck and btrfs20:02
fsmithredthis is ascii amd6420:03
Juestofsmithred: i just made a fresh one and no fsck20:03
fsmithredI don't know where you would tell it to include that20:04
Juestono idea20:06
Juestocan't find anything20:06
Juestoit's getting generated like that20:06
bozoniusjessie calligra package is not working right20:06
bozoniusanyone had luck with it?20:06
Juestoim using updated system20:07
Juestoascii/ceres which is buster/testing based20:07
bozoniusnvm.  Calligra is working now...20:08
fsmithredascii is stretch, ceres is sid. buster is tracked by beowulf20:08
bozoniusAny way to get calligra to appear in the start menu?  WPS adds itself, but not Calligra.  I'm using xfce, and I would imagine that is why (calligra is koffice (KDE))20:09
bozoniusI suppose I could use the menu editor20:09
Juestoyes, use that20:09
fsmithredbozonius, what desktop?20:09
Juestobut note it adds unnecessary clutter in your home20:09
fsmithredjust add a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications20:10
bozoniusnah.  I'll use the menu editor.20:10
fsmithredif one does not exist, you can look at some examples and make one up20:10
bozoniusI already have enough desktop clutter20:10
bozoniusI see your experiment brought a failure...20:10
fsmithredok, I never used a menu editor in xfce. I didn't know there was one.20:10
fsmithredwell, not a total failure, and not a new problem.20:11
fsmithredbut yeah, synaptic and gparted will start without asking for a password20:11
bozoniusI guarantee you, fsmithred, when I go to install ascii for real...20:11
fsmithredthe wicd problem got straightened out20:11
fsmithredclean ascii install is safer, I think20:11
bozoniusI tend to do it that way myself.  Clean install.20:12
bozoniusThat way, if anything goes SPROINNNNNG! I still have jessie.20:12
fsmithredyup. I do the same.20:12
fsmithredtakes me at least a couple weeks to install my main system20:13
fsmithredand get everything the way I want, enough to not feel like I need to boot the old system20:13
bozoniusAnd when I install a new system, I notice that much of the home directory stuff has to be massaged anyway.  It's been rare when I could haul a home directory over to a new install and just have it work.20:13
Juestofsmithred: kde apps add to applications iirc20:14
bozonius(but it's nice to still have it laying around for the first few weeks or months after new distro comes out)20:14
fsmithredJuesto, most apps will add themselves to the menu via a .desktop file.20:15
Juestoyes but some do hide themselves20:15
fsmithredlxrandr is one of those20:16
fsmithredanyway, I have to go out. bbl.20:16
fsmithredgood point20:16
bozoniusson of a gun!20:16
fsmithredbozonius, check if there's already one20:16
bozoniusCalligra has been added to the menu.  But it wasn't there before!!!20:16
fsmithredok, good.20:17
fsmithredsee you all later20:17
bozoniusI guess xfce had to take its time and think about it a bit first?20:17
bozoniuslater fsmithred!20:17
msiismdoes devuan officially offer any version with a freebsd kernel, currently? afaik, it doesn't. did i miss something?22:20
Juestowhy so22:20
msiismJuesto: what do you mean?22:21
golinuxmsiism: Not that I know of22:21
Juestomsiism: do you think it should? did you read anywhere about it?22:21
msiismJuesto: yes, i read it in the german wikipeda and will correctit, if it's wrong, which i'm pretty certain it is.22:23
msiismgolinux: well, you would know, wouldn't you?22:23
Juestohow do i troubleshoot the issues with initrd further22:26
msiismapart from that, since "Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is a port that consists of GNU userland using the GNU C library on top of FreeBSD's kernel, coupled with the regular Debian package set" (, i'd guess that adoption of systemd is giving those people involved with it a pretty hard time (correct me if i'm wrong).22:27
Juestoi wonder if anyone is using hurd22:28
msiismIrrwahn: did you have time to check out the meet pad for tomorrow, yet? there's talk about the package description(?) quirks you were bringing up here a few days ago(?). if i got that right, that is.22:32
golinuxmsiism: I don't know everything that happens in devuan.  ;)22:33
msiismgolinux: oh, i always believed that (kidding...).22:35
KatolaZmsiism: the FreeBSD port in Debian seems to be at a stale point23:07
msiismKatolaZ: ok, good to know. maybe there can be Devuan GNU+kFreeBSd then, at some point.23:09
Juestohelp me with debian not supporting derivatives23:10
KatolaZmsiism: anything can happen, if people make it happen23:10
Juestofor something that we're not even modifying23:10
msiismKatolaZ: true. maybe hinting at potentially open doors also helps in that repect.23:13
msiismbut ok, people know there's Devuan...23:13
xrogaando we really need brltty?23:32
xrogaanI mean, I'm not blind.23:32
xrogaanso, do I really need that software?23:32
KatolaZxrogaan: uh?23:38
KatolaZyou can just remove it if you don't need it23:38
xrogaanwell, that's done then.23:44
Juestoplease refrain from telling people to ask Debian since they don't support derivatives23:53

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