gnarface | Springlebutt: check the output of dmesg for complaints about missing firmware files at boot time. some atheros devices were recently hit by a bug where they forgot to put all the firmware in the package apparently (still waiting for upstream to fix this afaik but you can also find the firmware files yourself.... somewhere out there. not sure where, sorry) | 00:05 |
---|---|---|
gnarface | se7en: if you have lots of free space on the disk, resizing partitions to steal space from another less crowded one is an option. the only other thing that comes to mind involves you buying a second harddrive | 00:06 |
se7en | I can't easily do that, I have encrypted LLVM | 00:07 |
gnarface | which one? resizing or mounting additional drives? | 00:07 |
gnarface | did you mean LVM, not LLVM? i thought the whole point of LVM was to make this sort of thing easier... | 00:08 |
gnarface | i've never touched it myself though, sorry | 00:08 |
se7en | LVM | 00:09 |
gnarface | normally it would be an easy thing to just boot a livecd and use gparted to shift partition sizes around | 00:10 |
se7en | The problem is that an ENCRYPTED LVM is currently unsupported by many graphical partition managers | 00:10 |
gnarface | well, that's believable. i can't tell you off the top of my head if there are exceptions. | 00:11 |
gnarface | are you able to just get a second drive and mount /usr on that? | 00:11 |
se7en | What? | 00:12 |
se7en | I have a single drive | 00:12 |
se7en | You misunderstand the problem | 00:13 |
gnarface | i think i understand the problem. what i'm telling you is that the easiest solution is to throw money at it. | 00:13 |
se7en | My drive fills up too fast and the problem effects apt the most | 00:13 |
se7en | It is a 500GB drive | 00:13 |
gnarface | how much space is on the /usr partition? | 00:14 |
se7en | it's labled as 6539M by mc | 00:14 |
se7en | Free | 00:14 |
gnarface | how much total? | 00:14 |
gnarface | free and used combined? | 00:14 |
gnarface | just for /usr | 00:14 |
gnarface | unless /usr is not on it's own partition... | 00:15 |
gnarface | well, either way actually, but we need to know that too | 00:15 |
gnarface | wait, are you saying that it gives you an error that /usr is full when there's 6539M free on it? that's ... a different issue | 00:16 |
gnarface | apt might complain it is running out of space if the partition /var/cache/apt is on fills up, too | 00:17 |
gnarface | the details would be in the error text i think | 00:17 |
se7en | gnarface: but it does | 00:17 |
se7en | it does run out of space | 00:17 |
se7en | The partition is 6539M but it obly has 239M free | 00:17 |
gnarface | ok | 00:18 |
se7en | And it fills up fast | 00:18 |
gnarface | 6.5GB isn't enough for the kitchen sink | 00:18 |
se7en | Yeah, I know | 00:18 |
gnarface | you want to be thinking more in the range of 20-60GB before you can be careless about how much you install, and that's only if /usr is on it's own partition | 00:18 |
se7en | I used the guided paritioner on the Jessie installer | 00:19 |
se7en | I don't think /usr is | 00:19 |
se7en | Lemme check here | 00:19 |
gnarface | guided partitioning defaults might have put /usr alone, i'm not sure. | 00:19 |
se7en | I know that /tmp and /var are both individual partitions | 00:19 |
gnarface | ok, that's good. / and /usr should ideally be separate too | 00:20 |
se7en | Yes, /tmp, /var and /home are all their own part | 00:20 |
gnarface | and /home should also be separate | 00:20 |
se7en | But /usr isn't | 00:20 |
gnarface | hmm. /usr is shared with /? | 00:20 |
gnarface | and also /usr/local, i assume? | 00:21 |
se7en | Yes | 00:21 |
se7en | That is right | 00:21 |
se7en | /usr/local is same part as /usr, but not a unique partition | 00:21 |
gnarface | yea, 6.5GB isn't gonna be enough, sorry. | 00:21 |
gnarface | where'd it put all the space then? /home? | 00:22 |
se7en | Well, how do I rectify this | 00:22 |
se7en | That is 425G | 00:22 |
se7en | So yeah | 00:22 |
se7en | 500GB dribe | 00:22 |
gnarface | that's a setup that would make sense if you were reserving space for a Steam install. next time you might want to take a little more manual control over it. | 00:23 |
se7en | And I have 1.02MB unallocated to | 00:23 |
se7en | too | 00:23 |
gnarface | eh, that's harmless | 00:23 |
se7en | Well, what can I do to fix this | 00:23 |
se7en | I'd rather just quick-fix it in gparted than in fdisk, but gparted has no support | 00:23 |
gnarface | google suggests to me that there IS a methodology for doing it. i can't give you a simple one-liner though, this isn't something i've done before with LVM and LUKS | 00:24 |
gnarface | the good news is you probably don't have to reinstall, if you can get help from someone who has done it before | 00:24 |
gnarface | se7en: i would recommend you hang out and try to talk to someone who is more familiar with LVM and LUKS, but you should probably check some distro wikis for howtos too. i see this topic on the arch linux wiki specifically coming up in the top of my google searches. maybe there's an equivalent page on the debian wiki somewhere, or mabye the process form ubuntu will be similar enough to not break things... | 00:27 |
se7en | ok | 00:27 |
gnarface | *process from ubuntu i meant to say | 00:27 |
gnarface | se7en: i take it 'pvresize' can't do it? | 00:29 |
gnarface | or maybe 'lvresize' ? | 00:29 |
gnarface | hmm. scanning the arch wiki it looks like you'd use a combination of cryptsetup, lvreduce/lvresize or the like, and whatever filesystem tools go with your filesystem (probably e2fsprogs if you don't know) | 00:32 |
gnarface | looks complicated. be careful | 00:32 |
gnarface | i'm kinda surprised gparted doesn't have a feature for this yet | 00:35 |
gnarface | maybe it's just a matter of time | 00:35 |
gnarface | has anyone here actually done this before? resized an encrypted LVM setup? | 00:38 |
systemdlete | my terminal sessions start in /, not my home directory. I don't recall changing that, but somehow that's what is happening. | 01:00 |
systemdlete | What needs to be corrected? | 01:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://sintonen.fi/advisories/scp-client-multiple-vulnerabilities.txt | 01:00 |
gnarface | systemdlete: verify the path to the user's home directory is correct in /etc/passwd first of all | 01:01 |
gnarface | systemdlete: (then make sure the user actually has permission to access it) | 01:01 |
systemdlete | looks like I need "cd" on the last line of .bashrc | 01:02 |
systemdlete | that fixes it, but still... I don't know why I'd remove that | 01:02 |
systemdlete | don't recall doing that | 01:02 |
gnarface | my copy doesn't have that | 01:02 |
systemdlete | huh. | 01:02 |
gnarface | something is definitely wrong | 01:02 |
systemdlete | agree. This is Ascii, btw | 01:02 |
gnarface | you're not using su or sudo to launch this user session are you? you might have simply forgot the "-" flag? | 01:03 |
systemdlete | no, this is only default, when I open a term window | 01:03 |
systemdlete | let me try this from a console... | 01:03 |
gnarface | hmm. that's weird then. customize any system-level bash scripts lately? | 01:03 |
gnarface | like /etc/profile or /etc/bash* anything? | 01:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | lol, .bash_aliases ? | 01:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://sintonen.fi/advisories/scp-client-multiple-vulnerabilities.txt | 01:04 |
systemdlete | from console, this does not happen. It appears to log me into my home directory | 01:06 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >> 1. The attacker controlled server or Man-in-the-Middle(*) attack drops .bash_aliases file to victim's home directory when the victim performs scp operation from the server. | 01:06 |
systemdlete | xfce4-terminal | 01:06 |
gnarface | systemdlete: also weird that it would be able to find your ~/.bashrc if it couldn't find your home directory... could it be your window manager doing something at startup to move the user out of $HOME? | 01:06 |
systemdlete | idk, gnarface. It's possible. | 01:06 |
systemdlete | DocScrutinizer05: Are you talking to me? I am not using scp | 01:07 |
systemdlete | gnarface: that's what I was thinking. | 01:08 |
DocScrutinizer05 | systemdlete: not really, I just wondered if I met a coincidence on topic | 01:08 |
systemdlete | ok, Doc | 01:08 |
DocScrutinizer05 | though checking your ~/.bash* files woun't hurt I guess | 01:09 |
gnarface | yea you shouldn't even have a ~/.bash_aliases file present by default afaik | 01:09 |
systemdlete | on ascii, why does an update include libsystemd0? Is that a dummy -- I hope so! | 01:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: ack | 01:10 |
gnarface | systemdlete: libsystemd is just the runtime libraries. they're assumed to be vestigial without systemd itself present and running. | 01:10 |
systemdlete | maybe we could rename it Libsystemd_shim or the like? | 01:11 |
systemdlete | or, better yet, how about libsystemd_shit | 01:11 |
gnarface | i think that renaming it would defeat the purpose of leaving it there to begin sith. also there's already something named systemd shim or something like that | 01:11 |
systemdlete | (a 't' instead of an 'm') | 01:11 |
gnarface | *to begin with | 01:12 |
gnarface | that's happening to me too | 01:12 |
gnarface | heh | 01:12 |
systemdlete | it's spreading, gnarface. | 01:12 |
systemdlete | fatkeying, I mean | 01:12 |
gnarface | systemdlete: so, the issue is that just changing package dependencies would require rebuilding that package. so to remove libsystemd0 as a dependency from every package it's already tied to, that would be actually a lot of work. so basically they just banned systemd itself, and libsystemd0 is being simply ignored until it proves to be a problem on it's own. | 01:13 |
systemdlete | anyone here using xfce besides me? | 01:13 |
gnarface | not me, but actually it's very popular | 01:13 |
systemdlete | so something wrong with MY configuration somewhere | 01:14 |
gnarface | are you running anything weird in the xfce startup/launch whatever thingy? | 01:14 |
systemdlete | "weird?" Well, at least not anything I wrote myself, heheheheh | 01:14 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:14 |
gnarface | that sounds ominous... | 01:15 |
systemdlete | but let me double-check... | 01:15 |
gnarface | technically this could be caused by changes to ~/.xinitrc or ~/.Xsession too i think | 01:15 |
gnarface | but details on that might be specific to the graphical login manager you've chosen | 01:15 |
gnarface | not everything treats those files the same | 01:16 |
gnarface | i don't know enough about elogind/policykit stuff to know for sure it's NOT a bug in one of those, or just a mismatch between the one you installed and whatever your chosen login manager is happy with, but i would assume if the issue was there, you'd be having problems even logging in or starting the gui | 01:17 |
systemdlete | http://pasteall.org/pic/9f467dba9d57967fcd4d0ea8a1e04a51 | 01:18 |
systemdlete | oh. OK, login manager, let me check... | 01:19 |
systemdlete | well, first off. I have no .xinitrc or .Xsession | 01:20 |
gnarface | that's fine | 01:20 |
gnarface | they're optional | 01:21 |
gnarface | the resident xfce experts are probably all asleep or working right now | 01:22 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:22 |
gnarface | vboxclient | 01:22 |
gnarface | is this a virtualized guest install? or are you running on bare metal? | 01:22 |
systemdlete | VM | 01:22 |
systemdlete | which file contains the choice of login manager? I have forgotten again... | 01:23 |
systemdlete | ok | 01:23 |
systemdlete | it is SLIM | 01:23 |
gnarface | ok, might be nothing, but just statistically speaking, the fact this is in a VM is a likely culprit ... purely statistically speaking mind you. i got no specific suspicions on how this could be related | 01:23 |
systemdlete | (it's in /etc/X11/default_login_manager) | 01:23 |
gnarface | ok | 01:24 |
systemdlete | I highly doubt it, though I will not rule it out completely) | 01:24 |
systemdlete | Vbox tries not to interfere with the guest environment | 01:24 |
systemdlete | except for handling the kb and mouse, and even there, it really just passes it off to the guest | 01:25 |
gnarface | release notes (https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt) say that slim goes with consolekit, not elogind. at this point you should check to make sure you have consolekit installed and do not have both installed | 01:25 |
systemdlete | it does do some support for the video | 01:25 |
gnarface | but again... i thought the symptoms of the slim/policykit/consolekit/whatever mismatch were total failure to start or log in... this seems ... simpler than that | 01:26 |
systemdlete | huh. whaddayknow, they are both inhstalled | 01:26 |
systemdlete | I worry that if I remove elogind, though, maybe I won't get the system back | 01:26 |
systemdlete | but! | 01:26 |
systemdlete | AH! | 01:26 |
gnarface | well it might not even be the problem | 01:26 |
systemdlete | I could checkpoint the VM and roll back if there IS a failure... | 01:26 |
gnarface | that would be a good idea | 01:26 |
systemdlete | should I try? | 01:27 |
gnarface | i think so, but i know for a fact this has been discussed somewhere on the forums. for good measure you might want to find that thread first | 01:27 |
systemdlete | is it worth the effort? | 01:27 |
systemdlete | ok | 01:27 |
gnarface | well | 01:27 |
gnarface | if you try to remove elogind, does it want to remove any other packages too? | 01:27 |
gnarface | if not, i'd say it's safe. | 01:27 |
gnarface | the mess comes with when it tries to gut your system on the way out and you didn't keep notes about what you had installed | 01:28 |
gnarface | rolling back to an earlier snapshot of the VM should obviate that problem though | 01:28 |
gnarface | and if you haven't read the release notes, you really should read them, at least the part under "### Session management and policykit backends" that mentions the conflict | 01:29 |
gnarface | systemdlete: oh, i just thought of something else too. does it happen with every non-root user, or just that one? | 01:30 |
systemdlete | Looking at them now. Here is what it says: "Two of such session management systems are available in Devuan 2.0 | 01:30 |
systemdlete | ASCII, namely: | 01:30 |
systemdlete | - consolekit | 01:30 |
systemdlete | - elogind | 01:30 |
systemdlete | These session managers are mutually exclusive, only one of them can be | 01:30 |
systemdlete | installed and active at a time to avoid unwanted interference." | 01:30 |
systemdlete | (sorry, will paste in future) | 01:30 |
golinux | systemdlete: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2597 | 01:30 |
gnarface | thanks golinux | 01:30 |
systemdlete | thanks golinux | 01:31 |
gnarface | systemdlete: it's the "unwanted interference" part i'm not clear on because i don't use a graphical login. i just run startx every time | 01:31 |
golinux | Discussion was upthread. | 01:31 |
systemdlete | From the link golinux has provided: "option would be to remove the hook in all the packages that call it. Unless we have many more devs to remove these, we're going to have to live with it. We actually did a pretty good job in jessie but the list is growing with each new release." | 01:32 |
systemdlete | This sounds a lot like the genesis of any ordinary disease or pathogen | 01:32 |
systemdlete | but we already know all that... | 01:32 |
gnarface | yea :( | 01:32 |
golinux | :D | 01:33 |
systemdlete | so I shall now attempt to remove elogind, and I'll see you guys in a few minutes. I am running hexchat in Ascii. | 01:33 |
systemdlete | anything else before I "blink out?" | 01:33 |
golinux | Always read the Release Notes. ;) | 01:34 |
gnarface | systemdlete: if it wants to remove other packages with elogind, keep a list | 01:34 |
systemdlete | I'll snapshot it and show it to you guys before I reboot | 01:34 |
systemdlete | how's that sound? | 01:34 |
systemdlete | ok then... here goes | 01:36 |
systemdlete | if there is a disaster, I'll hexchat from the host | 01:36 |
systemdlete | snapshot complete... removing elogind now... | 01:37 |
gnarface | good luck | 01:38 |
systemdlete | https://pastebin.com/cw4cmx7z (while trying to remove elogind) | 01:38 |
systemdlete | just elogind -related packages | 01:38 |
systemdlete | that's safe, right? | 01:39 |
gnarface | looks fine to me. like i said, haven't tested this myself personally though. | 01:39 |
systemdlete | so Here I log out. See you in a few moments. | 01:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><systemdlete> or, better yet, how about libsystemd_shit<< if anything then libsystemd_dummy | 01:39 |
gnarface | i think it'll work | 01:39 |
gnarface | hey, you made it back. that's a good sign | 01:42 |
systemdlete | I survived the reboot! Cuz here I am! | 01:42 |
systemdlete | now, to test the shell in terminal...\ | 01:42 |
systemdlete | oooh. bad news. Still logs me into / | 01:42 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:42 |
gnarface | does it happen with every terminal? | 01:42 |
gnarface | and does it happen even with terminals launched from other terminals with no command-line options? | 01:43 |
gnarface | i'm wondering if something weird snuck into the menu shortcut for the terminal you're using | 01:43 |
systemdlete | now here's something interesting: If I open a tab from a tab where the cwd is "/", it opens the new tab in "/" | 01:43 |
systemdlete | BUT | 01:43 |
systemdlete | if I open a tab and cd first, then open a new tab, it opens it in /home/systemdlete | 01:43 |
fsmithred | that's normal | 01:44 |
systemdlete | ("cd first" means I get to my home) | 01:44 |
systemdlete | right. But do you see what I'm saying? | 01:44 |
fsmithred | try creating a new user and see if it happens. | 01:44 |
systemdlete | ok... | 01:44 |
fsmithred | what desktop? | 01:44 |
gnarface | yea, i second that. actually i mentioned it up above too. | 01:44 |
gnarface | fsmithred: he's using xfce in vbox | 01:45 |
fsmithred | ok | 01:45 |
gnarface | there's no known vbox bugs that do anything like this, are there? | 01:45 |
fsmithred | I've run into this in xfce, a few years ago. | 01:45 |
systemdlete | now, logging in from a console gives me my home directory when I log in | 01:45 |
fsmithred | I think there's a setting for it somewhere | 01:45 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:45 |
systemdlete | fsmithred: Well, do please share if you can remember! | 01:46 |
fsmithred | so it works correctly for the new user? | 01:46 |
systemdlete | :D | 01:46 |
systemdlete | no, but I can login at a console prompt and get my home without having to cd | 01:46 |
systemdlete | I haven't tried new user yet | 01:46 |
systemdlete | hold on... | 01:46 |
gnarface | fsmithred: (he was mentioning to catch you up that we already know this is only happening in xfce) | 01:46 |
gnarface | i know the emacs file loading cwd starts at whatever directory you launched emacs from. i wonder if xfce is doing something like that? | 01:47 |
gnarface | presumably the user launching slim would be launching it from / | 01:48 |
gnarface | it could actually be considered a feature, no a bug | 01:48 |
gnarface | though that wouldn't explain the mystery of how it got enabled in this case | 01:48 |
fsmithred | how is slim launched in this case? | 01:49 |
gnarface | i don't use slim. isn't it an init script? | 01:49 |
gnarface | systemdlete: stock slim install, right? | 01:49 |
gnarface | fsmithred: he inferred it was a fairly stock ascii install | 01:50 |
systemdlete | afaik. It has been several months since I created this Ascii VM | 01:50 |
gnarface | or, implied? inferred? i guess i might use those words wrong | 01:50 |
fsmithred | he could imply, you could infer | 01:50 |
systemdlete | Haven't mucked with much except keyboard layout option. | 01:50 |
systemdlete | uh... | 01:50 |
gnarface | thanks. I inferred it was pretty much a stock ascii install | 01:50 |
systemdlete | y'know what. Not that this should have much to do with it, but... | 01:51 |
gnarface | something to do with locales? | 01:51 |
systemdlete | no. | 01:51 |
fsmithred | echo $HOME | 01:51 |
systemdlete | I am using a pretty sophisticated multi-desktop desktop, so to speak | 01:51 |
systemdlete | I actually have 7 virtual desktops defined in xfce, using its built-in desktop switcher | 01:52 |
gnarface | hmm. | 01:52 |
gnarface | i wouldn't expect that to be related but i don't know for sure | 01:52 |
systemdlete | and I sorta customized firefox, thunderbird and a few other launchers to use unique "profiles" (as defined by mozilla, etc) in each of these desktops | 01:53 |
systemdlete | But I don't fire those up at startup; I run them manually, as I need them. | 01:53 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:53 |
systemdlete | Rightnow, I just have the terminal and hexchat open. | 01:53 |
systemdlete | I've run nothing else since I rebooted after removing elogind | 01:53 |
systemdlete | I doubt (like nearly 100% certainty) that it has anything to do with the login directory issue\ | 01:54 |
systemdlete | but I thought I should tell you this, as you asked if I had done any customization of the xfce environment. | 01:54 |
systemdlete | Clearly, I have | 01:54 |
systemdlete | hexchat, btw, uses the standard launch config. I did not change that. | 01:55 |
systemdlete | OMG. | 01:55 |
gnarface | hmmm | 01:55 |
fsmithred | an unexpected user name in hexchat? | 01:56 |
* systemdlete looks around to see if there are any safe places to hide from flying debris, rotten tomatoes, etc. as he starts to tell these guys what he did... | 01:56 | |
gnarface | google gives me an ubuntu bug from 2010 related just to launching gnome-terminal from a keyboard shortcut... | 01:56 |
gnarface | heh, oh boy. what's the answer to the mystery systemdlete? we'd all sleep better knowing | 01:56 |
systemdlete | Uhm... I kinda changed my login name when I ported my home directories to ascii from jessie | 01:56 |
systemdlete | and, uh... | 01:56 |
fsmithred | lmao | 01:57 |
gnarface | oh! and you forgot to change the directory to match it? | 01:57 |
gnarface | or just the line in /etc/passwd ? | 01:57 |
systemdlete | what I forgot to do was update the launcher for xfce terminal. It has a "Working Directory" setting for my old home directory (old user name) | 01:57 |
systemdlete | so... | 01:57 |
fsmithred | if refractainstaller is installed, you could run change-username.sh | 01:57 |
systemdlete | gimme a minute | 01:57 |
gnarface | ah. yea the ubuntu bug mentions setting that. well, that's a relief | 01:57 |
fsmithred | and it'll do all the things needed (I hope) | 01:57 |
systemdlete | ah-yay-yuy | 01:58 |
systemdlete | that fixed it, yep | 01:58 |
golinux | systemdlete: I also have 7 desktops and not a problem but I' still on jessie. | 01:58 |
systemdlete | and, the worst part is that I wish I hadn't changed it. | 01:58 |
gnarface | alright, just a regular snafu | 01:58 |
gnarface | happens to the best of us | 01:59 |
systemdlete | It's just hat it makes things easier when reporting bugs; I don't need to worry about obfuscation, etc | 01:59 |
systemdlete | so happy to hear I am not "the best of us" | 01:59 |
systemdlete | LOLOLOL | 01:59 |
systemdlete | (because I am definitely not. I can type really fast, 61 WPM, but that's it.) | 01:59 |
gnarface | it's just a saying | 01:59 |
systemdlete | (I know) | 02:00 |
nemo | heh. 61wpm is fast? ☺ | 02:00 |
systemdlete | ubuntu bug? | 02:00 |
fsmithred | yeah, that's pretty fast | 02:00 |
systemdlete | well, faster than most, nemo | 02:00 |
gnarface | i meant it to sound less derogatory than "even monkeys fall out of trees" but i don't know if i hit the mark | 02:00 |
systemdlete | I feel very guilty for wasting all your time | 02:00 |
systemdlete | again | 02:00 |
systemdlete | and | 02:00 |
systemdlete | again | 02:00 |
fsmithred | I watched someone type 90 wpm once, and she was obviously in some kind of trance state | 02:00 |
systemdlete | and... | 02:00 |
systemdlete | well, weed is legal here in California, so maybe I'll try that trancing sometime | 02:01 |
systemdlete | (just to see) | 02:01 |
fsmithred | it was an awesome site | 02:01 |
golinux | systemdlete: You'll sleep well tonight after solving this. | 02:01 |
systemdlete | gnarface: Which ubuntu bug was that? | 02:02 |
fsmithred | I'm sure we could fill a book with stories about all the stupid mistakes we've made | 02:02 |
systemdlete | amazing you could remember that. | 02:02 |
systemdlete | I could fill a book with just my own. | 02:02 |
gnarface | systemdlete: it gets mentioned here. apparently something to do specifically just with keyboard shortcuts and gnome. https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1469240 | 02:02 |
systemdlete | Now, why was it I tripped over this problem... I forgot. Got so caught up in this issue... | 02:03 |
systemdlete | Oh. | 02:03 |
gnarface | systemdlete: oh, i didn't remember it from 2010. i asked google 4 minutes ago | 02:03 |
fsmithred | shhh! | 02:03 |
systemdlete | I think I was trying to update vbox from 5.2.22 to 5.2.24 on my testbox (not this host) | 02:03 |
systemdlete | funny fsmithred! | 02:04 |
systemdlete | yeah, keep it a secret | 02:04 |
fsmithred | I hate updating vbox. I may stop using it for that reason. | 02:04 |
systemdlete | else pretty soon EVERYONE will be asking google... | 02:04 |
systemdlete | I've considered dropping vbox myself. But I haven't had time to evaluate the alternates. I just moved about a month ago and I'm still settling in here | 02:05 |
nemo | systemdlete: https://www.typingtest.com/result.html?acc=100&nwpm=82&gwpm=82&ncpm=410&gcpm=410&dur=60&time=60&chksum=41013&unit=wpm&kh=998&td=null&err=0&hits=410 hm. dropped ab it | 02:05 |
fsmithred | it's too easy not to use it | 02:05 |
nemo | was 85 last time | 02:05 |
gnarface | systemdlete: for hardware support quality, i recommend qemu-kvm. it's definitely not very user friendly though, and libvirt isn't of high quality so i would recommend against pairing the two | 02:06 |
gnarface | but if you only have one type of guest, you only need to figure out the command-line once | 02:06 |
gnarface | so there's that | 02:07 |
nemo | systemdlete: but apparently they agree with you on "fast" though ☺ | 02:07 |
rwp | I'm not unhappy with libvirt. That isn't a glowing recommendation. But it hasn't sucked for me yet. I am still using it. | 02:07 |
systemdlete | nemo: 85 -- YOUR speed? Really? | 02:07 |
nemo | systemdlete: on the astronaut sample | 02:07 |
nemo | systemdlete: fun one to try is one of the foreign languages. Good XCompose digraph practice 😃 | 02:08 |
systemdlete | nemo: This typingtest.com is very smart! It says I type 82WPM and I haven't ever visited it yet! | 02:08 |
systemdlete | easy, nemo. These increasingly arthritic fingers have their challenges... | 02:09 |
systemdlete | typingtest.com must have googled my wpm | 02:09 |
systemdlete | (right, gnarface?) | 02:09 |
systemdlete | Or maybe it picked up on my last pastebin copy-and-paste. | 02:11 |
gnarface | heh | 02:11 |
systemdlete | (using some cross-scripting exploit in mozilla?) | 02:11 |
fsmithred | maybe. I didn't see the score until I allowed js. | 02:11 |
systemdlete | ok, I will "RETAKE" the typing test, the one I never took. | 02:11 |
fsmithred | I think the 82 was nemo's result | 02:12 |
gnarface | it would be a simple matter in javascript to measure your WPM but it would be just as simple to cheat... | 02:12 |
gnarface | (session security is surprisingly not as easy, apparently... the 82 could have been nemo's result) | 02:14 |
systemdlete | 61, errors 10, for adjusted 51 wpm. | 02:14 |
systemdlete | I was nervous. | 02:14 |
gnarface | i'm not even gonna click on it | 02:14 |
systemdlete | I was thinking of bad things. | 02:14 |
systemdlete | gnarface, maybe I can find out where you live, or even hack your cam... | 02:14 |
systemdlete | nemo: That was the space cowboys test | 02:15 |
gnarface | i just assume there's ads on it and they're gonna measure a lot more than my typing speed, fuck that | 02:15 |
systemdlete | I'll try it again in a moment | 02:15 |
gnarface | we're WAY offtopic here... this should really be in #debianfork... | 02:15 |
systemdlete | You're right, gnarface. Really, they should consider your COMBINED typing and clicking speed. They could test users to see how facile they are texting and purchasing from Amazon simultaneously. | 02:16 |
systemdlete | (and that should include how fast they can whip out their credit card) | 02:16 |
systemdlete | The test should be relevant to the millenial age, not us old farts | 02:17 |
gnarface | nemo: i admit i haven't tried libvirt recently | 02:17 |
* systemdlete tries hard to remember what he was REALLY trying to do when this other bug came up... | 02:19 | |
* systemdlete heads to debianfork so as not to disturb serious people in this channel | 02:20 | |
systemdlete | now I remember: I was trying to figure out what the problem is which my KVM switch. | 02:22 |
systemdlete | When I switch to the testbox, sometimes the mouse quits on me. But when I return to this host, all is well again. KB and Mouse work correctly. | 02:22 |
systemdlete | the host on the testbox is Ascii, btw. | 02:23 |
systemdlete | I hit capslock-capslock+Fx (F1 for this host, F2 for testbox) to switch. | 02:23 |
systemdlete | any thoughts on why mouse might quit only on one PC (the one running ascii)? | 02:24 |
systemdlete | NOt sure if there is a way to change the key sequence for the kvm switch. | 02:26 |
gnarface | any way to recreate the error? how sure are you it's not the connections? the KVM would still have separate wires to each computer... | 02:26 |
systemdlete | right. | 02:26 |
gnarface | any of the jacks a bit loose? | 02:27 |
gnarface | if they're different hardware, it could be other things too... | 02:27 |
gnarface | things that are very unlikely if they are the same hardware | 02:28 |
systemdlete | This switch http://byteccusa.com/index.php/4x1-usb-hdmir-kvm-switch-4k2k.html (for reference) | 02:31 |
systemdlete | Ok, so it has 2 USB cables going in, one for each PC. Also 2 HDMI cables, one for each machine. But video is fine across the whole kvm | 02:32 |
systemdlete | it's just the mouse. | 02:32 |
gnarface | one of those usb cables for each pc has gotta be the mouse | 02:32 |
systemdlete | It appears the mouse and keyboard are combined for the trip to each PC because there is only one USB cable per PC | 02:33 |
gnarface | oh | 02:33 |
gnarface | is it a wireless mouse? | 02:33 |
systemdlete | And the "common" cables all go to the same devices. Yes, the mouse is wireless (but the kb is wired USB) | 02:33 |
gnarface | i misunderstood, i thought you meant there were two usb cables and an hdmi cable for each pc | 02:34 |
gnarface | on the pc side | 02:34 |
systemdlete | I doubt it is a problem with the "front end" (the real (kb) and virtual (Mouse) connections) because they work consistently fine with the first PC | 02:34 |
systemdlete | it has 2 USB cables going in, one for each PC. Also 2 HDMI cables, one for each machine. | 02:34 |
systemdlete | sorry if That was confusing. | 02:35 |
gnarface | well what i was thinking is that a bios difference or a driver difference could be... i dunno, putting it or the USB port to sleep due to power management | 02:35 |
systemdlete | maybe i should have said, it has 1 usb and 1 hdmi cable for each PC | 02:35 |
gnarface | that's the only idea i've got | 02:35 |
gnarface | sorry | 02:35 |
systemdlete | gnarface: That is most likely it. Now, given the target having difficulty is our own beloved OS (ascii), it seems like we should be able to tackle this | 02:36 |
gnarface | well i asked already, are they different hardware? | 02:36 |
systemdlete | yes. | 02:36 |
gnarface | different models | 02:36 |
gnarface | ok so what model is the one that is having problems | 02:36 |
systemdlete | PC #1 ("this" box) and PC #2 ("the testbox"), for future consistency | 02:36 |
systemdlete | PC #1 is Asus board. All USB is connected directly to the back 6 ports, or 2 in front which are connected from the case module to the board. | 02:37 |
systemdlete | but the USB cable connnected to the KVM is off the back of PC #! | 02:38 |
systemdlete | PC #1 | 02:38 |
systemdlete | Now, on PC2 (the ascii machine), the mainboard is MSI 7461. Again, the USB connection to the switch is from the back USB port | 02:38 |
systemdlete | (one of 6 on the back) | 02:39 |
systemdlete | the testbox (PC2) has 2 front USB ports, but I do not use them for the KVM) | 02:39 |
systemdlete | So, in sum: The usb cables are connected DIRECTLY to USB ports on the back of each PC | 02:39 |
systemdlete | (I hope this clarifies things) | 02:39 |
systemdlete | I could try a different USB cable, maybe swap them. | 02:40 |
systemdlete | Or try different USB ports | 02:40 |
gnarface | you should check the bios settings too | 02:40 |
systemdlete | AH! Maybe the unit demands only USB 3.0 ports | 02:40 |
systemdlete | I wouldn't think so, since it usually works fine, but who knows. | 02:41 |
gnarface | well does it quit while you're using it? | 02:41 |
gnarface | or after it has been sitting idle for a bit? | 02:41 |
gnarface | does it quit while the mouse is actually moving or clicking? | 02:41 |
systemdlete | The mouse quits. And it is immediately upon completing the switch to the testbox | 02:41 |
systemdlete | no, prior to that | 02:42 |
systemdlete | (see above) | 02:42 |
gnarface | oh, so it never works AT ALL on the test box? | 02:42 |
systemdlete | not quite, no | 02:42 |
gnarface | only works in the bios? | 02:42 |
systemdlete | usually, it works oK. But after some number of switches to the testbox, the mouse fails | 02:42 |
gnarface | hmmm. and what brings it back? | 02:43 |
systemdlete | I think I can see the mouse pointer, but PC2 does not react to the mouse | 02:43 |
systemdlete | a few things. | 02:43 |
systemdlete | 1) rebooting the Testbox (PC2) | 02:43 |
systemdlete | 2) switching back to the PC1 one or more times | 02:43 |
systemdlete | 3) (maybe, but I'm not sure about this:) unplugging and replugging the usb dongle on the FRONT end... (why that would work, idk) | 02:44 |
systemdlete | probably I should try the 3rd trick unplugging the USB on the back of the testbox. Let me try that now (the mouse is not working on the testbox now) | 02:44 |
fsmithred | check for any free-play in the plugs | 02:45 |
fsmithred | sometimes they can move a little bit and lose connection | 02:45 |
systemdlete | OK, here is what's interesting. After unplugging and replugging to an adjacent port on the back of PC2/testbox, when I move the mouse, I still don't see the mouse pointer, but I do notice that the images on the screen do react a little bit more | 02:47 |
gnarface | ? | 02:48 |
systemdlete | e.g., I have firefox open, and it wants to restore my session, but I haven't clicked to do so yet. When I move the mouse around I can see the mouse focus passing over the list of tabs to be restored (they flicker as each tab is passed over) | 02:48 |
fsmithred | click on something | 02:49 |
gnarface | yea, does it react to clicks? | 02:49 |
systemdlete | no | 02:50 |
systemdlete | but | 02:50 |
systemdlete | get this: When I wtich the usb port to different "set" on the back, the mouse works again | 02:50 |
gnarface | hmm | 02:50 |
systemdlete | (but I only have this success once so far, so not sure it "fixes" it) | 02:50 |
fsmithred | tail -f /var/log/messages | 02:50 |
systemdlete | what I mean by "set" is that the USB ports come in pairs | 02:50 |
fsmithred | and then wiggle your wires | 02:51 |
fsmithred | brb | 02:51 |
gnarface | the cases may have usb cables inside them too... going from the back ports to the motherboard | 02:51 |
systemdlete | when I said I switched to an "adjacent" port, I meant in the same pair of ports | 02:51 |
systemdlete | eh, no. | 02:51 |
systemdlete | there is a front panel for the case, and those USB wires do connect to the mainboard. | 02:52 |
gnarface | or the front | 02:52 |
systemdlete | but they are a specific interface | 02:52 |
systemdlete | ON the board, not from the back | 02:52 |
systemdlete | (not sure if I make sense) | 02:52 |
gnarface | yes, that is what i'm talking about | 02:53 |
gnarface | that will also be a separate USB hub to the linux kernel | 02:53 |
systemdlete | I am NOT using the front ports | 02:53 |
systemdlete | (right) | 02:53 |
gnarface | this could still either be a software or hardware issue as far as i can tell, but said you moved it to the 3rd seat and it started working again, so i'd say leave it there for a while and see if it still acts up eventually. | 02:53 |
systemdlete | Just fyi, I am NOT using front ports for the switch on either PC. They are both from a rear port on each. | 02:54 |
systemdlete | yeah. | 02:54 |
systemdlete | will do. | 02:54 |
systemdlete | I'll keep switching back and forth between the two PCs and try to "force" a mouse fail again. | 02:54 |
gnarface | even on the ports that are directly soldered to the motherboard, if you have more than 2, you are likely looking at actually more than 1 separate USB hub devices too | 02:55 |
gnarface | if that vendor chose to use a different model for that particular usb bank, it might have different drivers or different power management characteristics | 02:55 |
gnarface | so it could still be a software issue | 02:55 |
systemdlete | I just switched again, and now the mouse is stuck again. | 02:55 |
systemdlete | So the different set of ports didn't really matter. | 02:55 |
systemdlete | same problem | 02:56 |
systemdlete | but it could be the physical cable. | 02:56 |
gnarface | hmm. then if you... move them back to the 2nd seat again, it starts working, again? | 02:56 |
systemdlete | I'll try another USB cable (I've got tons of USB A to USB B port cables | 02:56 |
systemdlete | 2nd seat? you mean 2nd set? | 02:56 |
gnarface | the slot on the switch the test box was formerly in | 02:57 |
gnarface | before you moved it | 02:57 |
systemdlete | First, I'll try moving it back to another port on the back... | 02:57 |
systemdlete | bb one sec | 02:57 |
gnarface | and how long are these USB cables here? | 02:57 |
systemdlete | heh. That worked, switching to a different USB port. | 02:58 |
systemdlete | mouse works again on PC2. | 02:58 |
systemdlete | but it might not when I switch again... wait.\ | 02:58 |
systemdlete | nope. But after I swwitched it again, the mouse works agian (I hear the KVM chirp after moving to different port) | 02:59 |
systemdlete | these are pretty standard 5' or maybe 6' cables | 02:59 |
systemdlete | I have tons of them, mainly from printers over the years... | 03:00 |
systemdlete | pretty funky | 03:00 |
systemdlete | Let me look at the messages log, as per fsmithred's suggestion... | 03:00 |
gnarface | people having this trouble in windows on other hardware have been suggested to avoid the usb3 ports | 03:02 |
gnarface | advised i mean | 03:02 |
systemdlete | hmm | 03:03 |
systemdlete | I hear that there have been problems with 3.0 vs 3.1 USB ports? | 03:03 |
systemdlete | I believe mine are all 3.0 or 2.0; I don't think any are 3.1 | 03:03 |
gnarface | i'm not sure but i know that could ultimately mean some sort of driver issue. the usb3 ports would be using a different driver | 03:03 |
systemdlete | OK... | 03:04 |
systemdlete | Let me look at the board's manual... | 03:04 |
systemdlete | Looks like it's USB 2.0 for all ports, unless I am mis-reading this. http://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/467058/msi-760gm-p34-fx.html?page=14&original=1 | 03:08 |
systemdlete | http://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/467058/msi-760gm-p34-fx.html?page=11&original=1 | 03:09 |
gnarface | last bios update 2015-04-23, version "H.H" | 03:11 |
gnarface | got that one? | 03:11 |
gnarface | version H.E, released 2013-03-25... "Improved gaming mouse compatibility." .... | 03:12 |
systemdlete | I'm pretty sure it is uptodate, but I'll double check. Hold on. | 03:19 |
systemdlete | 17.15 | 03:20 |
gnarface | i dunno, their website doesn't list that version | 03:22 |
gnarface | https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/760GM-P34-FX | 03:22 |
systemdlete | I know. The board says MSI 7641 on it, but googling it brings us to msi's site for a whole family of boards. | 03:26 |
systemdlete | I think this is 760GM-P23, but I am not certain. | 03:26 |
gnarface | it should be silkscreened ON the motherboard somewhere | 03:27 |
gnarface | but you might be able to find it in the output of dmidecode too | 03:27 |
gnarface | the 760GM-P23 lists the same fixes | 03:28 |
gnarface | same versions too | 03:29 |
systemdlete | Yep, it is that model, 760GM-P23, because I have the box it came in right here. | 03:29 |
systemdlete | dmidecode! | 03:30 |
gnarface | https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/760GM-P23-FX | 03:30 |
gnarface | i don't know if it's the literal same file on their servers but it's got the same updates on the same days | 03:31 |
gnarface | at least the last 4 | 03:31 |
systemdlete | The "silk screen"'d id is 7641 | 03:32 |
systemdlete | (not helpful, yes) | 03:32 |
gnarface | actually it is | 03:33 |
gnarface | that checks out | 03:33 |
gnarface | 7641 is in the bios zip file | 03:33 |
gnarface | in the file name | 03:33 |
gnarface | for both of them. looks like it is the same file | 03:33 |
systemdlete | Looks like the "same" board model number is used for a number of products, including mine. | 03:37 |
systemdlete | but why does the BIOS UI say it is v17.15? That's not even a thing on their site... (I'm looking at forums now) | 03:37 |
systemdlete | (MSI forums) | 03:38 |
systemdlete | gnarface: I'm sending MSI support a question. Let them sort it out. I don't want to risk bricking the board. This is only a testbox, but I like the idea of continuing use of the board. I willfollow their directions, if an update is available, and if it bricks, itwill be on THEM. | 03:42 |
gnarface | systemdlete: sorry, got distracted there. yea, that sounds like a good plan. i don't have any idea why they do it that way. | 03:44 |
gnarface | seems annoying. i wouldn't worry about the 7641 thing | 03:44 |
gnarface | that's common | 03:44 |
gnarface | usually they have several different models based on the same exact motherboard, just with different combinations of I/O ports soldered on | 03:45 |
systemdlete | and graphics cards, in this case | 03:45 |
systemdlete | the "760GM" is the graphics I believe. | 03:46 |
systemdlete | But, yeah. | 03:46 |
systemdlete | HOWEVER | 03:46 |
systemdlete | Where does this BIOS v17.15 come from? It is not even available on their website. | 03:46 |
systemdlete | Usually, the mfr keeps old BIOS versions around | 03:46 |
systemdlete | The numbering scheme is completely different from the (apparent) scheme my BIOS currently has. | 03:47 |
systemdlete | I still think a message to their support is in order. | 03:47 |
gnarface | yes, that seems like a valid question | 03:47 |
systemdlete | OK, filled out their form, which is almost unusable. They must have had Microsoft engineers design their site. | 03:59 |
systemdlete | Everything is Windows-centric, even though even though the briefest of scans through their forums show that there are gamers, Linux users. | 04:00 |
systemdlete | When oh when will these companies wake up to reality? | 04:00 |
systemdlete | It's annoying being required to fill in a form, and when I get to the drop-down for type of issue, it shoots me over to another page where I have to fill in the same info all over again. This time, I can enter phone number free style, rather than the first page's strict input form for phone. | 04:01 |
systemdlete | They claim they get back in 24-48 hours. Maybe they mean days, or years. In the meantime, I will keep trying to manipulate the hardware a bit, trying different cables, ports, etc. | 04:04 |
gnarface | i wonder if you can wake the mouse back up from software alone, by running some hotplug event script... | 04:06 |
gnarface | you should also probably be tailing some log file to see if it spits out any relevant info at the point when the mouse dies | 04:07 |
golinux | What a marathon! You're still at it!! | 04:08 |
Criggie | w | 04:15 |
Criggie | free | 04:15 |
systemdlete | golinux: Intermittent problems like these often involve lengthy investigation and debugging. I don't recall a time when this was not the case. | 04:26 |
golinux | Very true. | 04:30 |
systemdlete | thank you for your understanding | 05:09 |
_abc_ | Hi. I asked yesterday if the link (1) is somewhat relevant to refracta2usb generated boot environments on media. What is the real reason for using isolinux on a fat32 and not grub on an ext2 or other partition for refracta2usb? https://www.pendrivelinux.com/boot-multiple-iso-from-usb-via-grub2-using-linux/ | 08:25 |
_abc_ | Is it FAT32 just for convenience for windows users? | 08:27 |
gnarface | _abc_: no, there's some technical reason. | 08:29 |
_abc_ | Well using isolinux for boot manager is one reason. | 08:30 |
_abc_ | I don't remember if it uses isolinux or grub. | 08:30 |
gnarface | it's got something to do with fat32 being the only filesystem supported everywhere without drivers | 08:30 |
_abc_ | Ah. Everywhere meaning? | 08:30 |
gnarface | at a bios level | 08:30 |
_abc_ | Ok, that makes sense. But the actual boot loader would be grub, which does support raw disks and ext2 iirc. | 08:31 |
_abc_ | And vfat and other things too. | 08:31 |
gnarface | i don't know if grub has a problem with hybrid iso images or what the deal is | 08:31 |
gnarface | mabye it's just personal preference of the developers | 08:31 |
_abc_ | Well I hope someone does know. | 08:31 |
_abc_ | (ping fsmithred :) | 08:32 |
gnarface | someone does. i remember the discussion i just don't remember the details | 08:32 |
_abc_ | I'll wait. | 08:32 |
gnarface | you can still boot from USB with grub but then you need a bios that can look for a MBR on a USB key | 08:33 |
gnarface | whereas a hybrid iso image is made to boot like an optical disk | 08:33 |
gnarface | or something like that | 08:33 |
_abc_ | I see what you mean, I think. | 08:34 |
_abc_ | And I think I meant syslinux not isolinux but it's the same | 08:34 |
gnarface | it could come down to just legacy software too. grub is the newcomer to this scene | 08:35 |
_abc_ | grub2 is the newcomer | 08:35 |
gnarface | semantics | 08:35 |
gnarface | i think they did put some convenience info in the fat32 partition for windows users though | 08:36 |
gnarface | so it shows up as something that has a readme | 08:36 |
gnarface | or some sort of identifying information at least | 08:37 |
gnarface | there might even be a launch option | 08:37 |
_abc_ | this has some tangent explanations https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/ | 08:37 |
fsmithred | _abc_, I don't know the reason for using syslinux instead of grub. Maybe because it's easier to deal with. | 16:54 |
fsmithred | I have made live-usb with grub2 bootloader. It works fine, but have to do it manually. | 16:54 |
_abc_ | fsmithred: ok, thanks for answering | 17:55 |
gnarface | systemdlete: go into the bios on that second machine please and see if there's an option for something about USB Legacy support | 20:58 |
gnarface | just another possible fix that came to mind | 20:59 |
gnarface | different hardware might have different defaults for whether that's on or off | 20:59 |
gnarface | and it affects bios-level USB device support | 20:59 |
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