freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-06-06

golinuxeyalroz: I just heard the the mini.iso for beowulf is working.00:00
eyalrozgolinux: And where do I get that from?00:00
eyalrozgnarface: Weren't they "ready" the moment beowulf became Devuan testing?00:01
golinuxLet me go find a link.00:01
golinuxNope.00:01
golinuxhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/3.0/main/00:01
golinuxDrill down through the installer-amd64/ or installer-i386/   directories00:02
eyalrozgolinux: thanks.00:04
golinuxThat date April date looks a bit old though . . .00:04
eyalrozgolinux: wait, I don't see any ISOs00:05
eyalrozgolinux: Ok, there's this one: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/3.0/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso00:05
golinuxhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/3.0/main/installer-i386/20180414%2Bdevuan1/images/netboot/00:05
eyalrozbut that's also from a year ago00:05
golinuxSimilar path for amd6400:06
eyalrozgolinux: So, should I use that, and then agdu ?00:07
golinuxNo00:09
golinuxI'm talking to someone now who has the right link.00:09
golinuxHe's trying to find it00:10
golinuxAh, it was for ascii.  You can use that and upgrade.00:12
golinuxThere are no beowulf isos.00:13
golinuxSorry.00:14
eyalrozgolinux: Maybe the website could say something about that being the way to try out beowulf.00:33
golinuxI think it's mentioned in enough places that those who want to do so can find it.00:37
golinuxI really want the cinnabar theme to be in place before it is too readily available.00:38
golinuxWe're working on that atm.00:38
golinuxLiterally.00:39
fsmithredeyalroz, are you here?01:19
eyalrozFor another very short while01:19
fsmithredif you select expert install in an ascii installer iso, I think you can select beowulf - but I might be thinking of one of the previous ascii-beta isos01:20
fsmithredother option is to do a debootstrap install, which can be done from a refracta iso01:20
fsmithredor from another running system on the same box01:20
eyalrozfsmithred: 1. How sure are you of that? 2. I've never done a debootstrap install -  would you have a link to a tutorial?01:21
fsmithredif you use a refracta iso, there are simple instructions in the user's home01:21
fsmithredI could find you a debian tutorial on it - just use different links01:22
fsmithredhttps://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap01:22
fsmithredIf you want to do it from a live-usb: https://get.refracta.org/files/stable/01:24
EHeMAh, the entertainment of installing a Linux image onto a new disk and then getting to discover whether the new system will boot when you place it into a computer.01:24
fsmithredor whether you remembered to make a root password01:25
golinuxand committed it to memory or paper01:25
fsmithredI even included a script to mount sys,proc and dev to save you from having to type it01:25
EHeMWell, if you didn't set a root password then you merely need to know (or get to research) how to break into a Unix machine from its console; generally the console has paper-thin security even if you try to secure it.01:26
fsmithredyeah, I know that one (been there, done that)01:27
fsmithredeyalroz, if you think you're going to do the debootstrap, you might also want to run 'tasksel install standard' to give you the standard system utilities.01:29
fsmithredwhile you're in chroot adding stuff.01:30
eyalrozfsmithred: Why would I want to do this rather than installing ASCII, editing my apt sources and agdu'ing to beowulf?01:31
fsmithredbecause you asked for an alternative to that?01:55
fsmithredgone01:55
XenguyGone, real gone02:00
* Xenguy snaps his fingers to the groove...02:00
Digitwhat was the name of that program that would echo a string of text in large multi-line ascii characters...?   can someone remind me?03:49
Digitfiglet!  nm.  scroll through websearch got me there /eventually/03:52
drawkulaDigit: toilet can add color to banners... but that increases eye cancer and decreases readability.07:09
Digithttps://duckduckgo.com/?q=figlet+vs+toilet&t=ffab&ia=answer n_n unexpected answer activity from ddg there.  n_n07:46
Digit(thought i was searching to see which was the more libre)07:47
JTechnohi folks, I want to ask a question about RAID 0 but my english is not very good so please bear with me11:23
JTechnoI'm trying to install devuan into two identical HDDs, in the disk configuration step I can leave the two disks without partitiong and combine them to create a unique RAID device in which to do the partitioning OR create identical partitions in both devices and then combien them to create multiple RAID devices, so the question is: What procedure is correct or better?11:24
WonkaDepends on your personal preferences, mostly.11:26
Wonkathere is no definitely "better" solution there11:26
gnarfacebut if you have to ask... probably the first one11:27
Wonkaeasier to manage, yes11:27
Wonkaeasier to change things later11:27
JTechnothank you guys, I supposed the outcomes will be the same but given the ambiguity I wanted to know if there was a "correct" approach11:29
GyrosGeierif you want to boot from them, partitioning them individually is generally easier12:05
r3bootJTechno: the correct approach depends on how you want it setup. If the disk is shared between other systems, it's preferred to work with partitions. But if the disk is dedicated to the raid set (and depending on the raid configuration, you have a separate disk to boot from), by all means, use the whole disk, since this will make management over time MUCH more easy12:05
GyrosGeierotherwise you have to specify that the RAID superblock goes to the end of the disk12:05
GyrosGeierby default it goes to the beginning so the contents of the RAID aren't accidentally recognized12:06
GyrosGeieri.e. if you have LVM inside RAID, then having the RAID superblock at the end means that individual disks are recognized as LVM PVs, which confuses LVM12:07
GyrosGeierif the RAID superblock is at the beginning, the LVM superblock is shifted back a bit, and it's not recognized12:07
r3bootPersonally, with ^^ setup (and given you want extra performance and a little perceived extra security), I'd go for raid1 using partitions; Small /boot (part of a raid1 set), and the rest in a single raid partition. On the large raid set, I'd configure LVM or ZFS to manage the actual storage + partitions12:08
GyrosGeierwhich breaks booting, but causes a lot fewer problems down the line12:08
GyrosGeierthe other thing you could do is use LVM replication12:08
GyrosGeierLVM implements its own RAID handling12:09
r3bootSure, but how well does that work? :)12:09
GyrosGeierthat's a bit more brittle when a disk breaks you need to jump through more hoops to say "I know, just go with the other one"12:09
GyrosGeierthe lower levels are the same code though12:09
GyrosGeierso internally it uses the same raid1 kernel module12:10
r3bootI've only seen LVM Raid work properly under HP/UX, and especially in recovery situations, having some well established raid layer is well worth the effort12:10
GyrosGeieryup12:10
r3bootAnd even then, LVM was designed for volume management, not raid configurations12:10
r3bootdont get me wrong, LVM+RAID is very cool, but not as dependable as MD12:11
GyrosGeiertrue, but you can tell it to make two copies of a volume, and it will make sure they are on different disks and set up the regular RAID drivers12:11
GyrosGeierinternally it calls mdadm, but doesn't store the RAID configuration in a mdadm superblock, so it pulls the config from the LVM superblock12:12
r3bootYep, and that introduces a 2nd layer of possible failure, since lvm metadata can become corrupt (has happened to me twice already)12:13
GyrosGeierto get back to the original question: small boot partition, 100 MB for UEFI or 512 MB for BIOS12:13
GyrosGeieron each disk12:13
r3bootyes, agreed12:13
GyrosGeierand the rest as large partitions12:13
GyrosGeierthen MD on top12:13
r3bootin raid1, so you can keep them in sync automagically (dont forget to copy over the boot block :)12:13
GyrosGeierthen LVM on top12:14
r3boot(or zfs, or btrfs, or some other volume manager.. you want a volume mgr :)12:14
GyrosGeierIIRC grub can be told to install to multiple devices12:14
r3bootOh, another nice thing with the MD stack, it's trivial to introduce full disk encryption12:14
r3boot(and most installers + setups take that scenario into account)12:14
GyrosGeierusually I use lilo for those kinds of setups, because lilo sees the RAID and writes different bootblocks to the underlying devices12:15
GyrosGeierbut booting from RAID still sucks12:15
r3bootatleast you can still boot :D12:15
r3bootHell, MD has saved my ass *so*many*times* already :P (i am too cheap to buy good disks :P)12:16
GyrosGeierI switched to hardware RAID at some point12:16
r3bootonly real failure I had with it was due to my own error (8 disk raid6, 3 disks broken) ...12:16
GyrosGeiersoon I'll upgrade to something that gives me separate PCIe devices for different volumes12:17
GyrosGeierso my VMs don't have to go through the VM host for disk access12:17
r3bootAh, nice12:17
r3bootiig, storage technology is something you want to be as conservative as possible with, imho12:18
r3bootits usually one of the moving parts in computers and has a tendency to break b/c that, so better have something that you know you can recover, imho12:19
ham5urgI tried to install beowulf via debootstrap: debootstrap --arch=amd64 beowulf /mnt http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan13:06
ham5urgThe installation breaks with an error13:07
ham5urgdebootstrap.log: chroot: failed to run command 'mount': No such file ...13:08
ham5urgI tried: chroot /mnt mount -t proc proc /proc13:09
r3boot(ghe, flashbacks to P2/P3 based beowulf clusters :D :D)13:09
ham5urgAnd got the same message13:09
Wonkaham5urg: tried /bin/mount instead of just mount?13:14
ham5urgWonka, same error message13:15
Wonkasounds like there is no /mnt/bin/mount then...13:15
ham5urgHow to install beowulf?13:16
fsmithredwhere are you running this from? Another devuan install?13:17
ham5urgyes13:17
fsmithreddebootstrap should work, but I haven't done one recently13:17
ham5urgis this correct?: debootstrap --arch=amd64 beowulf /mnt http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan13:18
KatolaZham5urg: the repo to use is pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged13:18
KatolaZ(note the /devuan in your line....)13:18
fsmithredoh, good catch13:18
ham5urgKatolaZ: installation looks like it's working, thanks13:20
ham5urgNo, I must say it broke just again13:20
ham5urgFailure trying to run: chroot /mnt dpkg-deb -f /var/cache/apt.....13:21
ham5urgdebootstrap.log: failed to run command 'dpkg-deb': Exec format error13:22
ham5urgIt's my fault13:22
ham5urgdpkg --print-architecture13:23
ham5urgi38613:23
ham5urgsorry to bother you guys13:23
fsmithreddoh!13:23
fsmithredyou could do it from a refracta iso13:24
fsmithredKatolaZ, do the minimal-live isos have debootstrap installed?13:25
KatolaZfsmithred: yes13:33
fsmithredso there's another way to do it. faster to download the iso, too.13:33
fsmithredham5urg, ^^^13:33
fsmithredat the moment, I'm attempting a beowulf install from the latest ascii mini-iso13:34
ham5urgInstallation went through, thanks13:59
fsmithredhow'd you do it?13:59
ham5urgvia refracta14:05
ham5urgrefracta with kde would be nice, somelike knopper-linux14:05
fsmithredoh, take a look at exegnulinux14:08
fsmithredit uses TDE14:08
fsmithredor...  use the tools in refracta (or exegnu) to make your own custom live-iso14:09
fsmithredif you're going to install kde in your system, add refractasnapshot (and maybe refractainstaller) and make a live-iso snapshot of your system once you get what you want installed and configured.14:12
M0E-lnxhey all, anyone here tried to install the brave browser on devuan ascii?15:50
M0E-lnxor know of a build that will work on ascii?15:50
fsmithredSounds familiar - 'brave browser' comes up in these threads: https://dev1galaxy.org/search.php?search_id=96835590615:56
M0E-lnxhmm... wants me to log in to see results?15:58
M0E-lnxI forgot my pw to that forum a long time ago15:59
fsmithredoh, just go to the main page and re-do the search15:59
fsmithredyou don't need to log in15:59
M0E-lnxgot it16:00
M0E-lnxmeh... usual browser flame war... Im just looking for a way to try it16:02
M0E-lnxthe apt repos are designed for ubuntu and such16:02
fsmithrednobody tried the ubuntu package and reported?16:04
fsmithredif you can download the deb and it doesn't require a bunch of stuff that's not in devuan repo, it might work16:04
fsmithredI don't know what version of ubuntu is closest to ascii/stretch, but that shouldn't be too difficult to figure out16:05
fsmithreddon't add an ubuntu repo to your sources - that could cause problems16:06
M0E-lnxthat's what I thought...16:06
fsmithredsometimes individual packages will work ok16:06
M0E-lnxI come from a non-deb/ubuntu background, so Idk much about silly codenames16:06
fsmithredgo to distrowatch and compare things like kernel version or libc6 version16:07
fsmithredmaybe ubuntu 16 or 1716:07
M0E-lnxthis is one thing that bothers me... why do people think 'linux' == distro|pkg_format ?16:08
M0E-lnxhttps://brave-browser.readthedocs.io/en/latest/installing-brave.html#linux16:09
M0E-lnxwhat if $UBUNTU_CODENAME does not resolve?16:09
M0E-lnxgrr16:09
fsmithredjust replace that with the codename you want to use16:14
fsmithredI don't like that you have to add the repo. Can't seem to get to their packages directly.16:14
fsmithredmaybe try this in a VM first16:15
M0E-lnxyeah16:19
stiltrFYI there is now a Devuan image available for LXD on images.linuxcontainers.org!22:35
slvrcool!22:39
stiltr:)22:41
jaromilnice!22:52

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