| brocashelm | if i plan on using daedalus (when it's stable) and i am on ceres, what would be the latest time to switch over? | 00:53 |
|---|---|---|
| brocashelm | so i get the benefit of continued updates (ceres during freeze) while being able to go stable henceforth | 00:53 |
| gnarface | i assume that window of opportunity has already passed but i'd be curious to hear a more informed opinion | 01:04 |
| fsmithred | you could wait for months or even years if you stop doing updates now. Then update when you change sources.list to daedalus. You'll get some newer packages. | 01:05 |
| fsmithred | I suppose whenever full freeze happens is the latest you can do it and keep updated before daedalus goes stable. | 01:06 |
| brocashelm | this reddit comment gave me the idea: https://old.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/o1s7xj/can_i_move_from_sid_to_stable/h256d73/ | 01:08 |
| brocashelm | it's just a matter of timing | 01:09 |
| brocashelm | i know a reinstall is quicker and more convenient, but the problem is getting all my packages and configs back (very time-consuming to ensure which packages got removed/renamed for stable) | 01:10 |
| brocashelm | i was told it might be safe to restore my /etc folder data (just change things like sources.list, fstab, and grub) | 01:11 |
| fsmithred | I've done an upgrade from testing to stable in the past. It worked fine because at that point, stable had newer packages than my installed testing. | 01:15 |
| onefang | If you use deadulus in your sources, then when it becomes stable, you'll be on stable. | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that's easier. | 01:16 |
| brocashelm | that is the approach i am taking, using daedalus in place of ceres | 01:18 |
| brocashelm | since they are still 1:1 | 01:18 |
| fsmithred | add daedalus and pin ceres lower so you can still get updates early if you want them. | 01:20 |
| brocashelm | i'm anticipating a june or july release of bookworm, so i might still have enough time to cheat my way through | 01:20 |
| fsmithred | watch for the final freeze date | 01:20 |
| brocashelm | what should i use for their pin values? | 01:20 |
| brocashelm | ceres would be 100, daedalus would be 500? | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | 100 | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | you don't need to set the pin priority for daedalus, just ceres | 01:21 |
| brocashelm | ah, i see | 01:21 |
| fsmithred | example in pm | 01:22 |
| fsmithred | then 'apt -t ceres install <package>' if you want it. | 01:23 |
| brocashelm | perfect, thanks | 01:24 |
| brocashelm | i'll go with 50 | 01:25 |
| bb|hcb | brocashelm: That will work, but in case you install some package with an RC bug, that would prevent the package to enter daedalus, hence your install would be a little ahead. This may or may not work, and in case it happens you have to fix it manually | 01:40 |
| brocashelm | bb|hcb: true, although it would be a lot better than just manually downgrading each and every installed package (had my rodeo with that recently and had to restore from backup) | 01:55 |
| gnstaxo | I'm mounting an Android device with "gio mount", it gets mounted but there is no folder at /run/<...>. And I can even get files and list directories with gio list and copy. Where is the actual cd-able folder? | 02:43 |
| gnstaxo | I've already tried searching using "find" | 02:43 |
| bb|hcb | brocashelm: Yes, the list is expected to be very short or nil :) | 03:22 |
| systemdlete | Has anyone encountered problems with the latest kernel update (stock chimaera linux kernel from repos, etc) | 12:02 |
| systemdlete | IOW, I updated the kernel from the repos and booted it. After several minutes, the mouse stopped working. I rebooted again into same kernel, and same problem after several minutes. | 12:03 |
| systemdlete | Booted back into the previous kernel and it SEEMS to be working Ok again. | 12:03 |
| systemdlete | by newest, I am referring to vmlinuz-5.10.0-21-amd64; previous means vmlinuz-5.10.0-20-amd64 | 12:04 |
| systemdlete | when I say the mouse stopped working, I mean, I could not click on anything or get a menu, etc. The mouse pointer still worked OK though. | 12:04 |
| systemdlete | I even tried a different mouse while in the 5.10.0-21 kernel and that one didn't work any better. Using the original mouse back in the previous kernel works. | 12:05 |
| systemdlete | (again, SEEMS to be working. So far haven't noticed a problem.) | 12:05 |
| systemdlete | I was able to use the keyboard to move around, of course. Only the mouse seemed to be affected. | 12:06 |
| systemdlete | One reason someone here might NOT run into this is if they are NOT using a kernel-video-mouse switch like I do. | 12:12 |
| systemdlete | I suppose that could play a role. | 12:12 |
| rrq | does the mouse have a battery? | 12:16 |
| onefang | I had a similar problem today. | 12:34 |
| onefang | Using chimeara backports kernel. Switched my KVM to one of my other computers, when I switched back I could move the mouse, but not click on anything, and keyboard didn't work either. So I had to reset my computer. | 12:35 |
| onefang | 6.0.0-0.deb11.6-rt-amd64 kernel. | 12:36 |
| brocashelm | i haven't had any mouse clicking problems, and i'm already on 6.1 (ceres kernel) | 12:37 |
| onefang | Everything is wired here, I hate using things with batteries. | 12:37 |
| brocashelm | i got a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse, also on a ceres machine, with no issues there | 12:37 |
| systemdlete | rrq: This is a wireless mouse, of course. | 12:46 |
| systemdlete | brocashelm, are your keyboard, video and mouse connected to a KVMS switch? | 12:47 |
| onefang | Actually, mines only keyboard and mouse switch. Power supply died on my 4 way KVM switch, I replaced it with a cheaper 2 way KM switch. Don't think it matters for this problem, the V worked fine. | 12:48 |
| onefang | Would have just replaced the power supply, but it's an odd voltage. | 12:49 |
| systemdlete | thank you for feedback onefang. You and I both have similar issue from sounds of it, but brocashelm does not, which is why I am querying them to find out if they have a switch | 12:55 |
| u-amarsh04 | waiting on Debian but #1029534 in libreoffice-common to be fixed | 14:45 |
| blizzow | I'm on a fairly new lenovo X1 extreme (5th gen) with all the bells and whistles of an Nvidia Optimus setup. I installed Pop-OS on it because optimus is a f*cking nightmare. | 15:38 |
| blizzow | Even Pop-OS cannot make this laptop enter suspend mode and I'm entertaining moving back to devuan. Does anyone have suggestions on how I can have this thing running well immediately? | 15:39 |
| rwp | blizzow, No answers about suspend to ram but perhaps a brainstorm... Have you tried hibernate to disk? Does that work? | 18:43 |
| blizzow | I haven't. At this point, I'm just trying to get an idea of how hard it will be to move to devuan and get good nvidia optimus support. | 18:44 |
| rwp | For suspend problems it is more often than not the video drivers. You mentioned nVidia... | 18:44 |
| rwp | Are you using the in kernel free software nouveau driver? Or the proprietary nVidia driver? | 18:44 |
| rwp | I personally was forced to move away from nVidia about a year ago in Unstable due to instability of the drivers. :-( | 18:45 |
| fluffywolf | 95% of my suspend problems have been usb related. I still can't suspend this laptop due to usb crashes. | 18:45 |
| rwp | Years ago on an HP laptop I could not get the PM code to suspend and switched to the then called suspend2 kernel patches, now called Tux-on-Ice kernel patches. | 18:46 |
| rwp | Those worked very well and should have been merged into the kernel main a decade ago! It's only because of personality problems that it has not been. | 18:47 |
| blizzow | rwp, proprietary nvidia. fluffywolf, USB has not exactly been stable/ideal on this box. | 18:50 |
| rwp | I haven't run the proprietary driver myself for a decade but almost everyone who is here asking for help is using it so... | 18:54 |
| debdog | blizzow: I am not an expert on optimus and there are AFAIK at least two options on how manufacturers tie the nvidia GPU to the system. but I remember what helped me makeing it work on my laptop:http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/390.42/README/randr14.html | 18:54 |
| debdog | plus the one page linked there: http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/390.42/README/kms.html | 18:54 |
| systemdlete | how can I set an environment variable for the desktop on a refracta system if I am using autologin? | 22:21 |
| systemdlete | I tried setting it in /etc/profile.d/myfile.sh and in /etc/environment.d/myfile.conf but no luck. | 22:22 |
| systemdlete | autologin seems to be bypassing the user's .bashrc and these other files, at leasst on my refracta system | 22:23 |
| systemdlete | not sure what is the cause of this. | 22:23 |
| systemdlete | looks like lxdm is the desktop mangler | 22:24 |
| systemdlete | *manager | 22:24 |
| rwp | The normal way would be ~/.xsessionrc file. (Which uses /bin/sh syntax not /bin/bash or other. It's sourced from a /bin/sh script.) | 22:31 |
| rwp | Remember that X is not bash. The /etc/X11/Xsession is a POSIX /bin/sh program. | 22:33 |
| systemdlete | rwp: thanks, I'll try that. | 22:39 |
| systemdlete | oddly enough, that is already set! I think. Does the variable need to be exported? | 22:40 |
| systemdlete | I typed in X=abc like that. Do I need keywords like "set" or something for the syntax? | 22:41 |
| systemdlete | or maybe it is looking in Xsession.d ? This is autologin, so maybe it skips the user's config? | 22:43 |
| systemdlete | I've tried adding a script to the /etc/X11/Xsession.d directory, no help. | 22:48 |
| systemdlete | I had also tried adding the variable to the /etc/security/pam_conf file, also no luck with that | 22:48 |
| systemdlete | c'mon, how hard can this be? LOL | 22:48 |
| systemdlete | maybe in the grub.cfg? | 22:49 |
| * systemdlete is grasping at straws now | 22:49 | |
| fsmithred | looking at my env variables, I'd say that different things get set in different places | 22:51 |
| fsmithred | some in .bashrc, some are from xdg, some from gtk3-nooverlayscrollbar | 22:52 |
| systemdlete | lxdm even has its own environment file. I tried setting it there, and also, no luck. | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | some dbus | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | if it would work better with lightdm, you could switch to that pretty easily | 22:54 |
| systemdlete | sure... | 22:54 |
| fsmithred | but be aware that it might change the way you use suspend | 22:54 |
| systemdlete | it's just that lxdm had installed so nicely | 22:54 |
| systemdlete | I don't use suspend--this is a desktop, so I only have the screensaver running | 22:54 |
| fsmithred | you built up this system yourself or this is the lxdm that came with Refracta? | 22:55 |
| systemdlete | stock refracta | 22:55 |
| systemdlete | I've made some mods of course, but nothing I think too structural overall | 22:55 |
| fsmithred | the vars I mentioned in .bashrc are ones that I added (EMAIL and DEBMAIL) | 22:55 |
| rwp | You didn't say what variable you wanted exported into the environment but if you want it exported then yes you need to export it. | 22:56 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred, are you using lxdm | 22:56 |
| systemdlete | rwp: Are you saying that setting the variable in these files is not enough to export it? | 22:56 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred, are you using autologin? | 22:57 |
| rwp | "FOO=3" no, local shell variable only, not exported. "export BAR=37" yes, exported into the environment. | 22:57 |
| fsmithred | lightdm | 22:57 |
| systemdlete | rwp: Does sh support that syntax? | 22:57 |
| systemdlete | which file are you referring to? | 22:57 |
| rwp | yes | 22:57 |
| fsmithred | no auto | 22:58 |
| systemdlete | ok, it's been years since I did basic sh programming. | 22:58 |
| systemdlete | I've always used bash (rarely) or perl (most commonly) | 22:59 |
| rwp | The Bourne shell only supports "FOO=37; export FOO;" but sometime in the early naughties (sometime a while ago anyway) /bin/sh picked up "export VAR=value". | 22:59 |
| systemdlete | rwp: ok, thanks. | 22:59 |
| systemdlete | which file do you recommend me doing the export? | 22:59 |
| rwp | What variable are you trying to set? | 23:00 |
| systemdlete | I've tried half a dozen, and I think some of them are just name=value pairs | 23:00 |
| systemdlete | any variable, actually | 23:00 |
| systemdlete | whatever it would take to get any arbitrary variable into the desktop environment | 23:00 |
| rwp | You don't have your terminal set up to create login shells do you? If so then that will initialize them to a clear environment then load the login environment files. | 23:00 |
| systemdlete | (as opposed to a shell launched from desktop) | 23:01 |
| fsmithred | mine are in .bashrc | 23:01 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred, that won't work for an autologin necessarily, will it? | 23:01 |
| fsmithred | why not? | 23:01 |
| rwp | The difference between the "Desktop Environment" and the command line shell environment can be confusing. | 23:02 |
| systemdlete | so far, autologin seems to be bypassing all these environment files | 23:02 |
| rwp | Since bash will load ~/.bashrc but clicking on an icon won't have bash involved anywhere and won't see any ~/.bashrc file. | 23:02 |
| systemdlete | so maybe just a .rc file (or whatever /bin/sh calls it) | 23:02 |
| rwp | The /bin/sh has no environment files. (Which isn't quite true but let's just go with it for now.) | 23:03 |
| systemdlete | this is not for a desktop icon in this case | 23:03 |
| systemdlete | although it could be for a file that is ultimately called by an icon file's Exec command | 23:03 |
| rwp | If it eventually will be used in a .freedesktop Exec line then it can't have anything from a ~/.bashrc file because that will never be seen there. | 23:04 |
| rwp | Do we have to start from the beginning? I guess so... | 23:06 |
| rwp | In the beginning is init, which spawns an xdm such as lxdm, which spawns xfce4-session (or lxdm session), which runs /etc/X11/Xsession, which sources $HOME/.xsessionrc, and then the user may click on something. | 23:06 |
| rwp | If the user starts a terminal which loads bash then bash sources the ~/.bashrc file | 23:06 |
| rwp | At that point it should be seen that the ~/.bashrc file is not sourced in the path to X's session, window manager, .freedesktop Exec lines. | 23:07 |
| rwp | To verify this trace through the /etc/X11/Xsession script program. | 23:08 |
| systemdlete | thank you for that review, rwp. There are also other pieces of the puzzle like /etc/Xssession.d and the XTG files, but I get the overall picture. | 23:21 |
| systemdlete | and don't forget pam and /etc/environment also | 23:21 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred, lightdm+xfce is a safe combo, right? | 23:32 |
| brocashelm | if you ask me, startx is the best | 23:40 |
| brocashelm | lightdm, sddm, slim, and lxdm have been problematic to me | 23:40 |
| brocashelm | lxdm the least | 23:40 |
| fsmithred | lightdm is the dm that xfce usually is paired with | 23:46 |
| fsmithred | sorry, in a meeting now. bbl. | 23:46 |
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