| AlexLikeRock | hi folks | 00:59 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | yo AlexLikeRock | 01:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | o/ | 01:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | Devuan GNU/Linux 4 \n \l | 01:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | help | 03:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | aplay -l | 03:05 |
| AlexLikeRock | aplay: device_list:274: no soundcards found... | 03:05 |
| gnarface | which release, AlexLikeRock? | 03:08 |
| AlexLikeRock | devuan ASCII | 03:09 |
| gnarface | did it ever work? | 03:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | i dont found alsa-base to install | 03:09 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes , at other laptop .. this HDD | 03:10 |
| gnarface | usually the issue is just that you need a newer kernel | 03:10 |
| gnarface | have you considered upgrading? | 03:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | so... i change to other PC (IBM LENOVO) , and lost the audio | 03:10 |
| gnarface | you should try a chimaera or daedalus live iso | 03:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | i cat , this machine its old | 03:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | but , new kernel | 03:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | Linux sexy 5.10.0-21-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.162-1 (2023-01-21) x86_64 GNU/Linux | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | alsa-utils | 03:12 |
| fsmithred | alsa-base went away | 03:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | oh" | 03:14 |
| fsmithred | but you must already have it for aplay to be there | 03:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | thanks so much , i found like "alsa-utils" | 03:15 |
| fsmithred | does lspci show sound card? | 03:15 |
| AlexLikeRock | lspci | 03:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | lspci: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpci.so.3: version `LIBPCI_3.6' not found (required by lspci) | 03:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | aplay -l | 03:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | aplay: device_list:274: no soundcards found... | 03:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | 03:16 | |
| AlexLikeRock | jjejeje | 03:16 |
| fsmithred | ok, something is obviously screwed up | 03:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 03:17 |
| AlexLikeRock | jejeje | 03:17 |
| fsmithred | so this is ascii mixed with what else? | 03:17 |
| fsmithred | chimaera? | 03:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 03:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | . | 03:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | the last time i make HALF upgrade | 03:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | :-( | 03:18 |
| Xenguy | ayiyi | 03:18 |
| fsmithred | do you even know which half? | 03:18 |
| AlexLikeRock | hahahahahah | 03:19 |
| fsmithred | maybe you can finish the upgrade, or maybe it's easier to start over | 03:19 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes , its the best way , | 03:19 |
| fsmithred | is it an old thinkpad? | 03:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | but my internet its OVER this month | 03:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | i got sloww internet | 03:20 |
| AlexLikeRock | i need wait a week to get full speed | 03:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes , old thinkpad | 03:21 |
| fsmithred | how old? | 03:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | ThinkCentre M57p | 03:21 |
| AlexLikeRock | its . like GRANDPA | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | I don't know that one | 03:22 |
| AlexLikeRock | core 2 duo | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | T420 and T450 audio works. | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | how much ram? | 03:23 |
| AlexLikeRock | 2 flame-Gigas | 03:24 |
| fsmithred | ouch | 03:24 |
| fsmithred | be selective with what you install and run | 03:24 |
| AlexLikeRock | i remember why ,.. i pull back to ascii | 03:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | because , GKSU are remove from newest vertions | 03:38 |
| gnarface | can someone remind me why gksu hasn't been ported forward? | 03:39 |
| brocashelm | gnarface: something about being deprecated upstream due to security vulnerabilities | 03:40 |
| brocashelm | recommend to use lxqt-sudo (lxsu also works) in place | 03:40 |
| gnarface | good tip, brocashelm. AlexLikeRock ^ | 03:41 |
| brocashelm | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=892768 | 03:41 |
| brocashelm | in short, the devs recommend to fall back on policykit instead with pkexec, but you can get away with lxqt-sudo instead of pkexec if you want to avoid policykit/polkit | 03:42 |
| AlexLikeRock | oh . cool ! | 03:43 |
| AlexLikeRock | letme try | 03:43 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes, but i love more the confort whit GKSU , more that vulnerabilities | 03:44 |
| AlexLikeRock | :-D | 03:45 |
| siduck | hi everyone! | 03:46 |
| AlexLikeRock | hi dude | 03:47 |
| siduck | im unable to setup nvidia-driver | 03:47 |
| siduck | it gives me this error whenever starting the service | 03:47 |
| siduck | ~ service nvidia-persistenced start | 03:47 |
| siduck | Starting NVIDIA Persistence Daemon | 03:47 |
| siduck | nvidia-persistenced failed to initialize. Check syslog for more details. | 03:47 |
| gnarface | siduck: uninstall nvidia-persistenced | 03:47 |
| siduck | and /var/log/syslog is empty!, ok uninstalled | 03:48 |
| brocashelm | alexlikerock: lxqt-sudo is very similar to gksu and has a familiar prompt interface. should work with gtk desktops and wm-only setups, too | 03:48 |
| siduck | gnarface whats the next step? | 03:48 |
| gnarface | siduck: i'm not sure if you have to reboot or not, i would actually assume not but i could be wrong | 03:49 |
| AlexLikeRock | listed LEDZEPELLIN | 03:49 |
| gnarface | siduck: there's no other steps, it was probably the old version, you don't need it either way | 03:49 |
| brocashelm | communication breakdown! | 03:49 |
| siduck | oh but i thought nvidia-driver package needed it! | 03:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | lxqt-sudo : Depend: liblxqt0 (>= 0.9.0+20150911) but not its instalable | 03:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | sam ! | 03:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | dam! | 03:50 |
| gnarface | siduck: no, it's optional | 03:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | fsmithred, T420 and T450 not found at aptitude | 03:55 |
| AlexLikeRock | where to donwload ? | 03:56 |
| gnarface | ? | 03:57 |
| AlexLikeRock | they say "<fsmithred> T420 and T450 audio works. " | 03:57 |
| AlexLikeRock | what its the package ? | 03:57 |
| brocashelm | not installable? are you on an older devuan release than chimaera? | 03:57 |
| AlexLikeRock | ascii | 03:58 |
| gnarface | it should work with the standard kernel, but you might need alsa-utils from the release matching the kernel | 03:58 |
| brocashelm | yeah, it's not in debian until buster (beowulf for devuan) | 03:58 |
| brocashelm | https://packages.debian.org/buster/lxqt-sudo | 03:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | oh 1 | 03:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | ok | 03:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | no no no | 03:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | im talk about | 03:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | audio | 03:59 |
| gnarface | alsa-utils alsa-ucm-conf alsa-topology-conf alsa-tools alsa-oss | 03:59 |
| AlexLikeRock | tanks | 04:00 |
| gnarface | you got all those? | 04:00 |
| gnarface | from chimaera, to match the kernel | 04:01 |
| gnarface | just in case | 04:01 |
| AlexLikeRock | i found, i need alsa-tools alsa-oss , tanks gnarface | 04:02 |
| brocashelm | are you not able to upgrade to beowulf? | 04:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | i not have alot internet | 04:03 |
| AlexLikeRock | brocashelm, i need wait 2 weeks | 04:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | init 6 | 04:04 |
| AlexLikeRock | gnarface, i found the problem with the audio | 05:47 |
| AlexLikeRock | its DISABLED by BIOS | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | jejejeje | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | AlexLikeRock, its lisstening Bob Marley & The Wailers - Waiting in Vain at XMMS | 05:52 |
| gnarface | hah | 05:54 |
| gnarface | well glad you figured it out | 05:55 |
| AlexLikeRock | heheheh | 05:55 |
| gnarface | brb | 05:57 |
| siduck | hi | 05:59 |
| siduck | does anyone use mist here? | 05:59 |
| siduck | ~ mist | 05:59 |
| siduck | mist: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.1.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 05:59 |
| siduck | even tho libssl-dev is installed | 05:59 |
| siduck | Im using devuan daedulus | 06:00 |
| brocashelm | is libssl3 installed? | 06:54 |
| brocashelm | nvm, he left | 06:54 |
| n4dir | replacing the init system, in my case sysv with runit, was easy right? | 12:27 |
| n4dir | Install the other init system, then, perhaps, add it to the grub command? | 12:27 |
| n4dir | to put it different: is there a how-to somewhere, say in the forum? | 12:31 |
| AhmedNabil | hi all | 15:01 |
| AhmedNabil | I have simple question ⁉️ | 15:01 |
| AhmedNabil | what is different between ceres repo and unstable repo?! | 15:01 |
| djph | ceres is unstable ... | 16:03 |
| thierry_ | hi | 17:54 |
| thierry_ | what package can replace gnome-logs, which is based on systemd? | 17:54 |
| debdog | from what I understand that is just a prog to view systemd-logs and does not actually depend on a _running_ systemd. thierry_ | 18:08 |
| debdog | so it should™ work in devuan (at least the package is available and not blocked) | 18:08 |
| debdog | installing it does not pull anything in that I hadn't installed previously. and systemd is not one the is installed. | 18:10 |
| thierry_ | Thanks, but it doesn't ("Error opening systemd journal") | 18:11 |
| debdog | I see | 18:12 |
| debdog | unfortunately it doesn't tell why it isn't able to open it. could as well be an ownership issue. | 18:13 |
| thierry_ | There is ksystemlog, but i'm not using KDE | 18:15 |
| debdog | ohh, you're not trying to view logs from another systemd-infected system but your own, non-systemd system? | 18:15 |
| thierry_ | No, trying to view logs in /var/log. I can of course use less in a terminal, but not easy to spot a problem | 18:18 |
| debdog | I am certain there are GUI progs for that. someone will have a suggestion, just wait for someone more knowledgeable (I assume in two to three hours there will be more people alive in here) | 18:20 |
| thierry_ | OK, thanks. No rush | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | he didn't wait, but my suggestion is to use "/" inside less to search for relevant words. | 19:01 |
| fsmithred | or grep the log | 19:02 |
| debdog | I suppose he was looking for something that highlites errors and warnings to easily spot them. to find irregularities even though the system seems to work fine. | 19:08 |
| debdog | no clue what gnome-logs does exactly, just imagining what I'd expect from a log viewer. | 19:10 |
| debdog | AhmedNabil: <djph> ceres is unstable ... https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 19:12 |
| AhmedNabil | When making frish install and choosing gnome desktop sound didn't work ( unstable repo ) | 19:28 |
| AhmedNabil | no sound output device | 19:30 |
| n4dir | if it was me i'd open a terminal and look what alsamixer might say. | 19:39 |
| n4dir | if nothing too, i'd search for the script adevices.sh and run it. | 19:40 |
| n4dir | if that doesn't reveal anything, i'd go for lspci -k ; and search for sound, if a driver is running | 19:40 |
| n4dir | there is a stoneage how-to at forums.debian.net, how to troubleshoot sound. Probably not up-to-date anymore | 19:40 |
| n4dir | you could also ask in #opensourcemusicians or #lau (linux audio users), assuming here no one will know | 19:41 |
| n4dir | good luck | 19:41 |
| gnarface | we have a string of people with problems instantly quitting today | 19:56 |
| gnarface | seems worse than usual | 19:57 |
| gnarface | i wonder if someone is staging this to try to construct a false narrative | 19:57 |
| Xenguy | gnarface, What's that old saying? Never attribute to __________, what can be attributed to stupidity? | 19:58 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 20:00 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: yea. i'm familiar with that saying, but it's astroturf. i've never seen it actually used as an excuse in a situation where what was being attributed to stupidity wasn't wanton betrayal. | 20:00 |
| Xenguy | hah | 20:01 |
| gnarface | incompetence is the first and last defense of 5th columnists | 20:01 |
| n4dir | i can offer a question without leaving after asking it | 20:01 |
| n4dir | the architecture for netbooks, arm , is arm64 ? | 20:01 |
| gnarface | is this a serious question? mostly it's arm64 these days for newer hardware, but in the context of the cross-compiling environment variables it's called "aarch64" apparently just to confuse everyone | 20:02 |
| gnarface | older stuff is arm, armel, or armhf depending on the context | 20:02 |
| gnarface | (armhf is 32-bit with floating point, armel is 32-bit without floating-point) | 20:03 |
| n4dir | just to install, no cross-compiling or such | 20:04 |
| n4dir | ah, armhf would be 32 bit? | 20:04 |
| gnarface | yea | 20:04 |
| n4dir | ok, so i first need to check that on said netbooks | 20:05 |
| gnarface | most the newer hardware is arm64 these days though | 20:05 |
| n4dir | i did a search for "distros for arm netbooks", not much interesting to be found. | 20:05 |
| n4dir | probably devuan would be a solid choice? | 20:05 |
| gnarface | some (all?) of the arm64 stuff can even do 32-bit code, dual-arch style like amd64 | 20:05 |
| n4dir | or is there something hip i never heard of? | 20:05 |
| n4dir | probably old hardware, i will check it tomorrow | 20:05 |
| gnarface | i dunno, i run devuan on my arm64 netbooks. had to learn to cross-compile a kernel and u-boot first, but the rest was just a simple debootstrap of the arm64 base install | 20:06 |
| n4dir | but there are isos for arm64, no? | 20:10 |
| gnarface | so, the issue with arm devices in general, and arm64 being slightly better but in no way a material exception, is that there's almost ubiquitously no bios, and lacking that, no standardized way to bring the hardware up. | 20:11 |
| gnarface | so we do have arm64 images here, but they're each for specific models | 20:11 |
| gnarface | there's no real guarantee you won't have to build your boot loader and kernel custom for whatever hardware you're selecting | 20:12 |
| n4dir | oh. what a shit | 20:12 |
| gnarface | blame the industry | 20:12 |
| gnarface | current arm images are here though: http://arm-files.devuan.org/ | 20:12 |
| n4dir | i will fool with the other, usual-standard, hardware first then | 20:12 |
| gnarface | there's a selection of images for popular devices that have been donated to devuan for builds | 20:13 |
| gnarface | broadcom's raspberry pi hardware is heavily featured | 20:13 |
| n4dir | yeah, they are netbooks though, or how it is called | 20:14 |
| gnarface | there's also some other images for devices in the "embedded" directory for ascii that never got forward-ported, but may be simple to update https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/embedded/ | 20:15 |
| hacksenwerk | Hi. I recently uninstalled pulseaudio and pavucontrol and installed alsa-utils instead. I rebooted the computer after that. However, cmus tells me: "Error: opening audio device: internal error" | 20:40 |
| hacksenwerk | Do I miss something? | 20:40 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: make sure you're in the "audio" group | 20:40 |
| hacksenwerk | yes I am | 20:41 |
| n4dir | perhaps you got a config file like asoundrc or such | 20:41 |
| n4dir | which says to use pulse | 20:41 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: and make sure you have all these packages: alsa-oss alsa-tools alsa-topology-conf alsa-ucm-conf alsa-utils | 20:41 |
| gnarface | (some of them may not be needed but none should hurt) | 20:41 |
| gnarface | and yea, this should work without any alsa config, but pulseaudio may have left behind some cruft that sabotages it | 20:42 |
| gnarface | i forget exactly where | 20:42 |
| gnarface | but i've seen it before | 20:42 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: in cmus setting there is this: :set mixer.alsa.channel= (empty value there), :set mixer.alsa.device= (also no value there), maybe I need to add something there? | 20:43 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: what? do I really need all these packages? | 20:43 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: like i said, you might not need them all but they shouldn't hurt if they're not needed and everything is working right | 20:43 |
| n4dir | if cmus is somehow like mocp it should just pick whichever soundserver is running, if ... there is no config like asoundrc which tells otherwise | 20:44 |
| n4dir | but i don't really understand all that. good luck | 20:44 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: i would start by installing them "just in case" and then start by testing with "speaker-test" | 20:44 |
| n4dir | running alsamixer won't hurt | 20:44 |
| gnarface | yes, you should at least look at it to make sure it's showing the right device | 20:44 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: I did run it it all looks fine | 20:44 |
| gnarface | if speaker-test doesn't even work though you need to find that pulseaudio cruft and throw it overboard | 20:45 |
| hacksenwerk | but I find some pulse files here in my home I will delete them | 20:45 |
| gnarface | there might be something in /etc/ | 20:45 |
| gnarface | maybe /etc/pulse/ | 20:45 |
| gnarface | most of it is probably harmless | 20:46 |
| hacksenwerk | in .config there's the dir pulse, wich contains a lot of stuff, also the pavucontrol.ini, but that should just be the config | 20:46 |
| hacksenwerk | yeah I will take a look | 20:46 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: ^ | 20:46 |
| gnarface | the thing i'm thinking of is just one line somewhere but i forget where sorry | 20:46 |
| hacksenwerk | holy sh** | 20:47 |
| hacksenwerk | pulse left a lot of files in the rootfilesystem... | 20:48 |
| n4dir | for me usually ~/.asoundrc is the culprit if alsa doesn't work, but that might or might not be jack thing | 20:48 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: did you customize ~/.asoundrc or anything in /etc/alsa/? | 20:48 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: no | 20:49 |
| hacksenwerk | Even /etc/alsa contains pulse config files... | 20:49 |
| gnarface | ah! | 20:49 |
| gnarface | wait that might be the thing | 20:49 |
| hacksenwerk | yeah I delete them | 20:49 |
| gnarface | wait some may be normal though | 20:49 |
| gnarface | which file name? | 20:49 |
| gnarface | i don't use pulse here so i can compare | 20:49 |
| gnarface | my /etc/alsa/ directory is empty except for /etc/alsa/conf.d/ | 20:50 |
| hacksenwerk | /etc/alsa/conf.d/50-pulseaudio.conf and /etc/alsa/conf.d/99-pulseaudio-default.conf.example | 20:50 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea i have that one too and it looks suspicious but it's not hurting anything here | 20:50 |
| hacksenwerk | I uninstalled pulse after I installed alsa | 20:50 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: so it is probably not hurting that I delete it ;) | 20:51 |
| n4dir | you could quickly create a new (test)-user and check if he has sound | 20:51 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: to be clear, alsa is a kernel component. you didn't install or uninstall it. all you installed was some userspace tools you should have already had. | 20:51 |
| n4dir | then you know if it is a config in ~ or in /etc | 20:51 |
| gnarface | that's not a bad idea | 20:51 |
| gnarface | ^ | 20:51 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: oh I didn't know that. | 20:51 |
| n4dir | if in home you could "grep" for something in the hidden configs, say -i pulse or such | 20:52 |
| hacksenwerk | o_0.... /etc/gufw/app_profiles/pulseaudio.jhansonx | 20:52 |
| hacksenwerk | Why do pulse audio need a firewall profile? | 20:52 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: dunno what that is, but i don't have it | 20:52 |
| hacksenwerk | gufw is a gui for ufw | 20:52 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: maybe because pulseaudio can do network streaming | 20:52 |
| hacksenwerk | ufw = uncomplicated firewall | 20:52 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: oh.... | 20:52 |
| gnarface | Steam is the only thing i've seen that requires it | 20:53 |
| hacksenwerk | Does it call poettering? =O | 20:53 |
| hacksenwerk | joke | 20:53 |
| hacksenwerk | no steam here | 20:53 |
| gnarface | i have some tricks to avoid using it and use netcat instead, if you're ever stuck trying | 20:53 |
| hacksenwerk | I just can not understand, why an apt autoremove --purge doesn't also remove all files a package has created... | 20:54 |
| gnarface | sigh ... because the package has to be coded to explicitly delete everything it copied in or it just doesn't get done. | 20:55 |
| n4dir | there is "aptitude purge ~c"; which might (or might not) remove left-over config files | 20:55 |
| n4dir | also deborphan | 20:55 |
| gnarface | very good quality packges clean up after themselves nicely | 20:55 |
| gnarface | pulseaudio wasn't ever known to be "good" | 20:55 |
| n4dir | both should be used with caution | 20:55 |
| n4dir | in other words: it happens more than you assume you got leftovers | 20:56 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: Oh be careful with deborphan... I used it a lot in the past till it wanted to remove the half system.... | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | aptitude search ~c to find leftover configs | 20:56 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: seems like | 20:56 |
| gnarface | there's also a program called "cruft" literally that you can install (may have been changed to cruft-ng in current testing) that can help you look for stuff that got left behind | 20:56 |
| AnyCreatureMorph | Will kde still be supported in the future? | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | yeah, deborphan lists some things that I explicitly installed | 20:56 |
| gnarface | AnyCreatureMorph: why wouldn't it be? | 20:57 |
| hacksenwerk | fsmithred: yes it's dangerous | 20:57 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: I find cruft-ng and will check it out | 20:57 |
| gnarface | damn, i really wish i could remember where pulseaudio leaves that config slug behind. this has come up multiple times before. | 20:58 |
| AnyCreatureMorph | gnarface: So plasma 6 will be supported on the unstable branch. | 20:58 |
| gnarface | AnyCreatureMorph: i'm not really on the inside loop, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence kde is getting removed, since it's still in the repos and testing is officially frozen | 21:00 |
| gnarface | AnyCreatureMorph: (and the version in testing currently seems to be the same exact version still in unstable) | 21:01 |
| gnarface | AnyCreatureMorph: if you're nervous, you should fire up a daedalus live iso | 21:01 |
| hacksenwerk | ehm... I have a /.cache | 21:01 |
| hacksenwerk | Where does that come from? ^^' | 21:01 |
| gnarface | AnyCreatureMorph: ... since i haven't tested it myself since beowulf | 21:01 |
| hacksenwerk | it's empty but weird... | 21:02 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: general cache directory, everything started using it lately | 21:02 |
| hacksenwerk | AnyCreatureMorph: daedalus is great, gibe it a try! Very stable already | 21:02 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: i thik it might have something to do with the XDG_* standardization | 21:03 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: oh really? I didn't notice that until cruft-ng reports it ^^ | 21:03 |
| n4dir | in the interest of science: i for one don't see much danger in deborphan | 21:03 |
| n4dir | as long you don't copy and paste a command and run it without thinking about it | 21:03 |
| hacksenwerk | But I need to read the man for cruft-ng, I don't understand it's output... it mostly lists my scripts in /usr/local/bin xD | 21:03 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: yea it might basically just find everything unpackaged, which can often include stuff that was legitimately created by packages or by you. | 21:04 |
| gnarface | afaik the ~/.cache directory is literally a cache and it should be safe to delete anything in there but it'll just get put back the next time whatever cached there gets run | 21:05 |
| n4dir | i rm it all the time | 21:05 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: I had deborphan in a script of mine wich just made a apt autoremove --purge "$@" and after that deborphan and I piped the output of it to apt again, to remove the orphaned packages... However, some day it wanted to remove the half system and I couldn't figure out why. Since then I stopped using it. | 21:05 |
| gnarface | i'm seeing stuff in there from vlc, thunderbird, unity, youtube-dl, wine, inkscape, mozilla, mesa... etc | 21:05 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: mine is empty | 21:06 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: sure. But that is not what makes deborphan dangerous, but running it in a script. | 21:06 |
| n4dir | or at least piping it to a purge with -y | 21:06 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: in standalone it still listed that packages, it was a bug I guess. | 21:07 |
| hacksenwerk | of course not with -y ... | 21:07 |
| hacksenwerk | That's the reason I could stop it from uninstall my system... | 21:07 |
| n4dir | well, if i uninstall half my system, i just reinstall that again | 21:08 |
| n4dir | not nice, but no biggie either. Anyway: to each his own | 21:08 |
| n4dir | i don't use it anymore myself :-) | 21:08 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: uninstall a running kernel? ouch... | 21:09 |
| hacksenwerk | Ah I have xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin here too | 21:09 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: did you remove ~/.pulse/ and ~/.config/pulse/ and then relog? | 21:09 |
| hacksenwerk | good bye plugin | 21:09 |
| n4dir | chroot, reinstall the kernel, case closed | 21:09 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: I don't know how to use chroot | 21:10 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: as said, you probably are right regarding deborphan, and many claim so. | 21:10 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yes I removed .config/pulse but ~/.pulse does not exist. I remove some other stuff, then I will just reboot. :) | 21:10 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: So deborphan will become an orphan? D: | 21:11 |
| hacksenwerk | :) | 21:11 |
| fsmithred | I don't think apt will let you remove a running kernel | 21:12 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: oh, one other thing that occurs to me; many programs store their own persistent audio config and may still be pointing to the now missing pulseaudio. did you ever test it with speaker-test? | 21:12 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: I will reboot now. brb. | 21:12 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: it absolutely will. it might issue a warning. | 21:12 |
| n4dir | you even have to type "YES", perhaps "Yes", hitting just Enter-key or typing just "Y" won't do it, iirc | 21:13 |
| fsmithred | ok, I may be thinking of the warning. Pretty sure I tried it once. | 21:13 |
| n4dir | been more than a decade for sure. I decided to not remove it | 21:13 |
| gnarface | doing so was in fact a necessary step to fixing a package conflict back in ascii or jessie i think | 21:14 |
| gnarface | when migrating from debian | 21:14 |
| gnarface | but you had to know to install a fresh kernel before you rebooted | 21:14 |
| gnarface | that part, the warnings weren't so clear about | 21:14 |
| hacksenwerk | Still not working... :( | 21:18 |
| n4dir | did you try the test-user yet? | 21:18 |
| hacksenwerk | I found another option in cmus settings: :set dsp.alsa.device= | 21:18 |
| hacksenwerk | oh yeah the speaker tes! | 21:18 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: what does speaker-test output when you run it? | 21:18 |
| hacksenwerk | will do soory xD | 21:19 |
| hacksenwerk | speakers make noise | 21:19 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: it's important they make noise in the right order, but any noise at all suggests your audio is fundamentally working, there must be some issue with cmus config itself | 21:20 |
| hacksenwerk | wait i try freetube sound | 21:20 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yup! | 21:21 |
| hacksenwerk | freetube has sound but cmus not | 21:21 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: does the cmus config contain the line "set output_plugin=alsa" ? | 21:22 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: no only the ones I posted | 21:22 |
| gnarface | got some lines here for you to try: | 21:22 |
| hacksenwerk | ok | 21:22 |
| gnarface | set output_plugin=alsa | 21:23 |
| gnarface | set dsp.alsa.device=default | 21:23 |
| gnarface | set mixer.alsa.device=default | 21:23 |
| gnarface | set mixer.alsa.channel=Master | 21:23 |
| gnarface | try that | 21:23 |
| hacksenwerk | ok | 21:23 |
| gnarface | "Master" might be wrong. if "Master" doesn't show up in your alsamixer view, replace "Master" with something that does (maybe "PCM" or something) | 21:24 |
| hacksenwerk | the set output_plugin=alsa option is not here by default so I will add it | 21:24 |
| hacksenwerk | ok | 21:24 |
| hacksenwerk | yeah it is Speaker here | 21:25 |
| gnarface | is that the one on the far left? | 21:25 |
| gnarface | try it | 21:25 |
| hacksenwerk | yes | 21:25 |
| hacksenwerk | wait a sec | 21:25 |
| gnarface | that's fine. those field names aren't standardized, they're just picked by the driver developers | 21:25 |
| gnarface | alsamixer auto-generates an interface based on your driver's hardware topology info | 21:26 |
| hacksenwerk | hmmm... I can add :set output_plugin=alsa to the settings in cmus, I try adding that to the config file directly then | 21:26 |
| gnarface | i think you have to add it to the config yes | 21:27 |
| hacksenwerk | hahaha... there's is not config file xD | 21:27 |
| hacksenwerk | *no | 21:27 |
| gnarface | i don't use cmus, i am just copying these fields from a config i found on google that looked right | 21:27 |
| hacksenwerk | ill do a search | 21:27 |
| gnarface | wait, look for ~/.config/cmus/rc | 21:28 |
| gnarface | from the arch wiki (may be relevant anyway): https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Cmus | 21:28 |
| hacksenwerk | no that doesn't exist | 21:28 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 21:28 |
| gnarface | you have to create it | 21:29 |
| gnarface | maybe | 21:29 |
| gnarface | well, the arch wiki says you have to create it. there's every possibility debian just put one elsewhere but i'd try this first | 21:29 |
| hacksenwerk | hm.. yeah maybe... | 21:29 |
| hacksenwerk | but does it overwrite the settings? and where are the settings stored? | 21:30 |
| hacksenwerk | I search in / | 21:30 |
| gnarface | check the man page | 21:30 |
| gnarface | "man cmus" | 21:30 |
| n4dir | usually /usr/share/name-of | 21:30 |
| n4dir | sometimes /etc | 21:30 |
| gnarface | the man page usually list all the config file locations | 21:30 |
| n4dir | whereis cmus ; might show it too | 21:31 |
| * n4dir defiantly fights the manpage !, the proper approach, that is | 21:31 | |
| hacksenwerk | /usr/share/cmus/rc | 21:32 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: nah I use find | 21:32 |
| hacksenwerk | *used | 21:32 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: ah. my guess is that is meant to be the system default one and ~/.config/cmus/rc will override it per user | 21:33 |
| n4dir | i yet have to run in a cli audio-player you have to configure to get at least sound. | 21:33 |
| hacksenwerk | hmm | 21:33 |
| n4dir | i am still not convinced that is the real problem | 21:33 |
| hacksenwerk | that usr config file doesn't conatin anything about alsa, so it is some exmaple I guess... | 21:33 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: feel free to edit the global one but just be aware your changes could get replaced by the package manager during an upgrade. changes to ~/.config/cmus/ should not be touched. | 21:34 |
| hacksenwerk | You know what: I uninstall it and install it again! ^^ | 21:34 |
| gnarface | well, if it's behaving well it shouldn't need special configs to not use pulseaudio but i'm not familiar enough with this program to know if it's well behaved | 21:34 |
| hacksenwerk | I didn't made any changes i nthe settings and rebuilding the library is done in a minute | 21:34 |
| hacksenwerk | Before I steal your and n4dir time even more... ^^' | 21:35 |
| n4dir | gnarface: would make sense to check another audioplayer? | 21:35 |
| n4dir | oh, i love it. Because audio is so confusing, and i am glad i am not in the situation | 21:35 |
| gnarface | n4dir: we already verified speaker-test is working. this is definitely a problem specific to cmus | 21:35 |
| hacksenwerk | AH! | 21:35 |
| n4dir | gnarface: ah, right. i read it, but forgot | 21:36 |
| hacksenwerk | ~/.config/cmus/autosave is the config! | 21:36 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 21:36 |
| hacksenwerk | who thinks of configs in a file called autosave??? | 21:36 |
| hacksenwerk | sounds more like the play queue is here temp saved... to me I mean | 21:37 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: oh, maybe it generates that config file based on something you put in the GUI? | 21:37 |
| hacksenwerk | and it contains set output_plugin=alsa ... o_0 so it _have_ saved it but it didn't show up in the settings window in cmus... | 21:38 |
| hacksenwerk | ah! | 21:38 |
| hacksenwerk | I remember reading, that when you change some metatag of your audio files, you must clean the cache of cmus, because it doesn't update it all the time, maybe that's the same procedere here. | 21:39 |
| gnarface | could be | 21:39 |
| gnarface | worth a try anyway | 21:39 |
| gnarface | does cmus have any error log? | 21:40 |
| hacksenwerk | yeah set output_plugin=alsa _is_ in that autosave file but even if I restart cmus it is not shown up in the settings window (7) | 21:40 |
| gnarface | strange | 21:41 |
| gnarface | what about the other 3 lines? | 21:41 |
| gnarface | setting default and Master? | 21:41 |
| gnarface | i agree you shouldn't have to, but i'm over it | 21:41 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: these are there by default | 21:42 |
| hacksenwerk | but clear -l and then pressing u doesn't work for the settings... :( | 21:43 |
| hacksenwerk | it only clears the library | 21:43 |
| hacksenwerk | Oh man... | 21:43 |
| hacksenwerk | I reinstall it now! -.- | 21:43 |
| n4dir | did you try to "mv ~/.config/cmus ~/.config/cmus_backup" and restart cmus yet? | 21:44 |
| hacksenwerk | Oh and I forgot to mention: I used cmus in the past with alsa, without struggling arround with some settings | 21:44 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: don't need to backup | 21:44 |
| n4dir | reinstall shouldn't help, as it usually works, and you didn't edit any system wide configs, so it should be a user setting | 21:45 |
| hacksenwerk | I changed nothing of the default settings | 21:45 |
| n4dir | not a backup, to start from scratch, as if it was reinstalled | 21:45 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: oh i see | 21:45 |
| hacksenwerk | ok i'll give it a try ^^ | 21:45 |
| n4dir | if that didn't work, you might move it back in place | 21:45 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: it works here too, with alsa. Installed it, had hard times to figure it out, but it works right away with also. | 21:45 |
| n4dir | fyi | 21:45 |
| gnarface | the man page says it reads config files in this order: $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/cmus/autosave, /usr/share/cmus/rc, $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/cmus/rc | 21:46 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: hahaha that do the trick | 21:46 |
| hacksenwerk | I will differ now the files | 21:47 |
| n4dir | Tada ! Party ! | 21:47 |
| hacksenwerk | Yeah cmus party! | 21:47 |
| hacksenwerk | xD | 21:47 |
| gnarface | heh, congrats | 21:47 |
| n4dir | the good thing is now i have it installed. | 21:47 |
| hacksenwerk | Thank you gnarface | 21:47 |
| hacksenwerk | Thank you n4dir | 21:47 |
| gnarface | seems like it must have stored some pulseaudio stuff in the auto-generated config | 21:47 |
| n4dir | no problem, it was interesting to listen | 21:47 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: oh cool it's a pretty good player | 21:47 |
| n4dir | yeah, you said so in offtopic | 21:48 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yeah ill check it and report then | 21:48 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: my idea to quickly create a test user is really a good approach, the first to do, to figure out if it might be related to user configs in home | 21:49 |
| n4dir | in general | 21:49 |
| hacksenwerk | aha! there is no autosave file now, so that is only created when something or someone changes the configs! | 21:49 |
| gnarface | interesting | 21:49 |
| gnarface | and it's all working fine? | 21:49 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yes | 21:49 |
| gnarface | good good | 21:49 |
| n4dir | now tell us which music you play now ! :-) | 21:49 |
| hacksenwerk | Probably it uses just the default global config now | 21:49 |
| n4dir | perhaps rather head over to off-topic | 21:50 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: lol some relax music, it was the first I catched | 21:50 |
| hacksenwerk | yeah that's oft | 21:50 |
| n4dir | :-) | 21:50 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: we probably should have thought of this first. in general a very common fix for issues with upgrading between releases has to do with deleting the old user configs. i've seen this a lot especially with vlc, pidgin, gimp, and wine | 21:51 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yes xD | 21:52 |
| hacksenwerk | But sometimes you can learn something that way | 21:52 |
| n4dir | gnarface: well, it happens very often to not think of it | 21:52 |
| gnarface | true | 21:52 |
| n4dir | very often | 21:52 |
| hacksenwerk | But it seems this time maybe not.... the /usr/share/cmus/rc and the autosave file differs a lot.... | 21:53 |
| hacksenwerk | It seems that in autosave theres is additional stuff, but not added from me, like how the colors are and so on... but I use the default theme... | 21:53 |
| hacksenwerk | also it saves for example the aaa mode that is actual active. That is just a mode you can change with pressing m and it switches between artist, album and all, the repeat and the shuffle functions use it | 21:55 |
| hacksenwerk | But probably it will only be written in that autosave when you press m for the first time after installing | 21:55 |
| hacksenwerk | I'll test it... | 21:55 |
| hacksenwerk | Yes! now it has created an autosave file in .config/cmus | 21:57 |
| hacksenwerk | but with a lot of stuff, not only the current aaa_mode xD | 21:57 |
| hacksenwerk | I'll differ this again to the backuped autsave file | 21:58 |
| hacksenwerk | They have the same size 6.8kB | 21:58 |
| hacksenwerk | the rc in /usr is only 3kB | 21:58 |
| hacksenwerk | Ok got it I'll paste it wait a sec... | 21:59 |
| hacksenwerk | ah... | 22:00 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 22:00 |
| hacksenwerk | only one alsa related line is different | 22:01 |
| hacksenwerk | set mixer.alsa.channel=PCM | set mixer.alsa.channel=Speaker | 22:01 |
| hacksenwerk | left the new default one, roight the old one | 22:01 |
| hacksenwerk | that's weird... alsamixer doesn't show PCM... | 22:01 |
| n4dir | post a screenshot of your alsamixer, if you want | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | oh! | 22:02 |
| n4dir | if id was me i'd enjoy my success for a while though | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | Ok check: | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | I use a usb soundcard here | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | it shows up in alsamixer | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | the master there is named Speaker | 22:02 |
| hacksenwerk | but | 22:02 |
| gnarface | ah! you have more than one sound device? alsamixer is probably not showing the USB one | 22:03 |
| hacksenwerk | if I change the soundcard with F6 | 22:03 |
| n4dir | then you see PCM ? | 22:03 |
| hacksenwerk | and select HDA Intel it shows PCM | 22:03 |
| gnarface | alsamixer -c 0 | 22:03 |
| gnarface | alsamixer -c 1 | 22:03 |
| gnarface | alsamixer -c 2 | 22:03 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: no the soundcard is visible | 22:03 |
| gnarface | etc | 22:03 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: i have that on one laptop too, i only see it if ... F6 yada yada | 22:04 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yes the sub soundcard is 0 and that HDA Intel thing is 1 | 22:04 |
| gnarface | alsamixer defaults to -c 0, but you can pass any index # of any audio device in the system (it'll even show webcams and tv capture cards) | 22:04 |
| hacksenwerk | But why do I have the name of the master volume from that Intel and not the one from the usb sound card? | 22:05 |
| gnarface | i think you're just confused | 22:05 |
| gnarface | launch alsamixer with -c 1 | 22:05 |
| hacksenwerk | yes thats default: 1 | 22:06 |
| hacksenwerk | but the usb sound card is default: 0 | 22:06 |
| gnarface | no, -c 0 is the default | 22:06 |
| hacksenwerk | lol | 22:06 |
| hacksenwerk | but why "Speaker" does not work in the cmus conifg xD | 22:06 |
| hacksenwerk | instead PCM from default: 1 does work | 22:06 |
| gnarface | here, maybe you don't understand this: alsa just numbers them in whatever order they come up. "default" is always #0, but the hardware at #0 can change between reboots or on usb hotplug | 22:07 |
| hacksenwerk | I use that sound card, my headphones and my speaker are connected to it and only to it | 22:07 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: the usb soundcard is always plugged in, it's my default audio output | 22:07 |
| gnarface | trust me, the order can change even if it usually doesn't | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | It was plugged in since I installed daedalus (even before) | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yeah sure | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | I just don't get that ^_^ | 22:08 |
| gnarface | if you had more than one usb audio device you'd probably see them change order more often | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | I'm glad I have my sound back! | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | I have only one | 22:08 |
| hacksenwerk | I use a splitter behind the card to connect headphones and speakers at the same time | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | what's that in english... | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | these 3,5mm | 22:09 |
| gnarface | onboard devices are usually very reliable in the order they come up, but usb devices tend to be more fluid | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | Klinke | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | ^^ | 22:09 |
| gnarface | analog | 22:09 |
| gnarface | ? | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | ah wait I translate t be sure | 22:09 |
| hacksenwerk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio) | 22:10 |
| hacksenwerk | 3.5 mm (1⁄8 in) mono (TS) | 22:10 |
| hacksenwerk | hahaha ^^' | 22:11 |
| n4dir | i think most just call it a "jack" | 22:11 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: lol okay xD | 22:11 |
| hacksenwerk | Klinke = jack | 22:11 |
| n4dir | even ding, the de-en dict, translates Klinke as jack, but so does the website you linked | 22:11 |
| hacksenwerk | jack the Klinke | 22:11 |
| n4dir | ha ha | 22:11 |
| hacksenwerk | I have a huge english dict here | 22:12 |
| n4dir | ding usually does it for me, and is low on ressources. It fails too though | 22:12 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: well, now that it's working, if it ever just stops working after a reboot or a usb hotplug action, just remember that it's probably just coming up at a different # | 22:12 |
| hacksenwerk | It is also good as a weapon against burglars | 22:12 |
| n4dir | if you got a huge one no need for ding | 22:12 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: Yeah ok. Thank you! ^^ | 22:12 |
| gnarface | np | 22:13 |
| hacksenwerk | And what do we learn: It is better to never install pulseaudio, than uninstall it!!! | 22:13 |
| hacksenwerk | ^^ | 22:13 |
| hacksenwerk | Funny: changing the volumes Master and PCM of HDA Intel does exactly nothing. | 22:15 |
| hacksenwerk | muting...nothing happens | 22:16 |
| hacksenwerk | I still don't understand this, but maybe I didn't have to... | 22:16 |
| gnarface | maybe cmus is still doing something sneaky, like storing the config for one but auto-detecting to the other on the fly. | 22:18 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yeah what ever. computer just do its own thing... again. x) | 22:18 |
| gnarface | something about your testimony doesn't quite line up with standard expected alsa behavior, but i think you're very close to figuring it out | 22:18 |
| hacksenwerk | "Stupid human! Computer will rule the world!" | 22:19 |
| hacksenwerk | but not as long I can oush the shutdown button | 22:19 |
| hacksenwerk | *push | 22:19 |
| hacksenwerk | oh btw: | 22:19 |
| gnarface | nah, i'm thinking in this case it might be cmus just trying to be too clever | 22:20 |
| hacksenwerk | Is that devuans default behaviour that it shutdown while holding the powerbutton for a while? | 22:20 |
| n4dir | what else would it do? | 22:20 |
| n4dir | in other words: i seem to have that for each distro | 22:20 |
| gnarface | not just devuan; that's standard behavior as per ATX power supply specs | 22:20 |
| hacksenwerk | hmm is that so... | 22:21 |
| gnarface | (though it's so very much the industry standard that many mobile devices that don't have ATX power supplies still can be shut off this way) | 22:21 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: to put it different -> what gave you the urge to hold down the power button? what did you expect? a pizza? | 22:21 |
| hacksenwerk | I thought I remember that I always had to configure it throught some power manager application | 22:21 |
| n4dir | :-) | 22:21 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: Pizza! yes! | 22:21 |
| hacksenwerk | The pizza button! | 22:22 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: oh, you probably had to do extra setup that's set by default in debian now | 22:22 |
| hacksenwerk | wow! that would be the new hot thing! | 22:22 |
| gnarface | there used to be more bugs | 22:22 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: yes I think so. | 22:22 |
| gnarface | systemd was invented partially to re-introduce bugs we've long since solved | 22:22 |
| gnarface | in this one case they didn't manage to sabotage us in the process | 22:22 |
| n4dir | give it a bit of time. | 22:23 |
| hacksenwerk | I couldn't remember that behaviour working on tty but it does now.... | 22:23 |
| hacksenwerk | So that's not xfce4-power-manager something | 22:23 |
| gnarface | well the core component is acpid | 22:24 |
| hacksenwerk | That thing doesn't start anyway on my new desktop lol | 22:24 |
| gnarface | various scripts and tools may act as a frontend for it though in different contexts | 22:24 |
| gnarface | acpid is one of the things systemd replaced | 22:25 |
| hacksenwerk | However it is a good behaviour. I had some "frozen" moments, while I was trying some things and that power button helped me to shut down cleanly even all other inputs didn't react anymore. | 22:26 |
| hacksenwerk | In the past I had to hold it long to hard power off the computer when such thing happens... that's not good. | 22:26 |
| n4dir | i have that all the time, the only reason i know poweroff button needs to be hold for a while | 22:27 |
| n4dir | let me quickly ask something: If i want to replace sysv with runit, i do apt-get install runit, and then do init=/path/initsystem in grub cmdline | 22:28 |
| hacksenwerk | n4dir: but do your computer than do a clean shutdown? | 22:28 |
| n4dir | i can put that in /etc/default/grub too? | 22:29 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: i never had problems, like a needed fsck, so it seems to work | 22:29 |
| hacksenwerk | ok | 22:29 |
| n4dir | they are crap PCs, so no harm i would suffer from, if it goes south | 22:29 |
| n4dir | they freeze all the time for a reason :-) | 22:29 |
| hacksenwerk | but i think it's not good for a hdd too | 22:30 |
| n4dir | yeah, i think so | 22:30 |
| hacksenwerk | better clean parking that head and so on | 22:30 |
| n4dir | i wait as long i can stand it. 10 minutes or so | 22:30 |
| hacksenwerk | Why do your machines freeze so much? | 22:31 |
| gnarface | n4dir: i got a tip for you: try a UPS | 22:31 |
| hacksenwerk | That shouldn't the normal behaviour... | 22:31 |
| n4dir | they are from trash, stoneage, so on, hacksenwerk | 22:31 |
| n4dir | gnarface: i don't know what a UPS is, let me check | 22:31 |
| hacksenwerk | The stoneage was great | 22:31 |
| hacksenwerk | :) | 22:31 |
| hacksenwerk | They had rubber streets and stone wheels. That's just genius! | 22:32 |
| gnarface | n4dir: UPS, a good one, is a surge-suppressing, line-conditioning, auto-failover, battery back-up | 22:32 |
| n4dir | ah. thanks | 22:32 |
| gnarface | n4dir: what i'm hypothesizing is that your real issue is dirty power | 22:32 |
| n4dir | i am not much of a technic-interested guy | 22:32 |
| n4dir | oh, that might be. I live in a stoneage apartment too, and mainly electricity looks ... weird | 22:33 |
| gnarface | (as a resident of California i've had to put all my machines on UPSes just to keep them on) | 22:33 |
| gnarface | (this started... about 20 years ago) | 22:33 |
| n4dir | gnarface: by any chance, you know how to replace sysv with runit? | 22:33 |
| gnarface | no, not really, only in theory. you should be able to just install a couple packages | 22:34 |
| gnarface | someone else was a runit user here though just a couple days ago weren't they? | 22:34 |
| n4dir | damn it. I will figure it out, but searchterms lead to other things | 22:34 |
| n4dir | yeah, that is how i came up with the idea | 22:35 |
| n4dir | i have runit on another PC, but don't remember how to replace | 22:35 |
| n4dir | it sure is easy | 22:35 |
| gnarface | what does it want to remove if you just try to install the runit package? | 22:35 |
| n4dir | i think if you install it nothing happens. You only have to tell grub to use it | 22:36 |
| n4dir | i want it in /etc/default/grub, not from grubs command line | 22:36 |
| gnarface | i think you want these too: runit-helper runit-init runit-run runit-services | 22:36 |
| n4dir | yup, did it with apt-get install -s runit, nothing to be removed, it seems | 22:37 |
| hacksenwerk | Is any of the sysinit alternatives on the way to replace it by default? | 22:37 |
| n4dir | gnarface: the other ones you mentioned seem to be dependencies, not that sure, but it is close, it seems. long day, tired, so on | 22:38 |
| hacksenwerk | I never tried one of them | 22:38 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: no, though it would more likely be openrc not runit if any did. | 22:38 |
| hacksenwerk | ok | 22:38 |
| n4dir | it is less exciting than you expect. on a daily usage | 22:38 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: openrc and runit are both very usable in their current states, it's just that none of us know how to use them | 22:39 |
| gnarface | not literally none of us, as i mentioned there's a few of them that come through occasionally, but sysv is very entrenched amongst us regulars | 22:39 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: What? Do they lack of documentation? o_0 | 22:39 |
| n4dir | with runit you can use sysv-rc-conf, with openrc perhaps too | 22:40 |
| gnarface | hacksenwerk: nah, not like that. just lack of interest. | 22:40 |
| hacksenwerk | gnarface: lol | 22:40 |
| hacksenwerk | Never stop a running sysv..ehm system | 22:40 |
| n4dir | hacksenwerk: when debian went systemd i tried gentoo with openrc, void with runit iirc and Slackware with whatever it uses | 22:40 |
| n4dir | the method to enable and disable and start and stop services is different, but on a daily usage, i for one see no difference | 22:41 |
| n4dir | because you usually don't fiddle with the init system all the time | 22:41 |
| gnarface | i used openrc on gentoo too. it's different there compared to debian's copy that we have, which relies on sysv scripts | 22:42 |
| gnarface | that's the part that's confusing to me, ironically | 22:42 |
| gnarface | so for devuan systems it's easier for me to just stick with sysv because i already learned it that way | 22:43 |
| gnarface | but people do successfully get openrc and runit and other stuff (even s6) working in here all the time... then they just never stick around to help anyone else | 22:44 |
| n4dir | if i install it right away it just works | 22:44 |
| n4dir | devuan | 22:44 |
| n4dir | not sure if i tried openrc too, in the past, probably yes | 22:45 |
| hacksenwerk | Ok I go to sleep. Have a nice time. See you. :) | 22:55 |
| n4dir | bye | 22:56 |
| n4dir | So: just installing runit-init will remove a bunch of sysv packages, and the next reboot you will have runit as the init system | 23:23 |
| n4dir | how to keep sysv but only try runit is still beyond me, the webresults also give nothing | 23:23 |
| gnarface | there might not be a way without virtualization | 23:24 |
| n4dir | i recall it to be really easy. just install it, then tell grub init=/sbin/your_choosen_init | 23:25 |
| n4dir | but that is very long ago | 23:25 |
| n4dir | the bad news is that runit-init will remove refractainstaller and snapshot-gui, will leave *base though | 23:25 |
| n4dir | anyway, if ever someone asks, you can easily install and then remove what else you used, how to do it both and select via grub is beyond me | 23:26 |
| n4dir | as a safety-net, i mean. Else there is not much point in having two init systems installed | 23:28 |
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