| blastwave | question .. what happens if I try debootstrap bullseye ? | 05:44 |
|---|---|---|
| blastwave | is there a "debootstrap daedalus" ? | 05:44 |
| gnarface | blastwave: you can debootstrap daedalus | 05:48 |
| gnarface | probably not using debian's version of debootstrap though | 05:48 |
| FatPhil | the only problem with them chosing the systemd hill to die on is that it might take too long. | 08:55 |
| spine-o-saurus | anyone else getting that wm bug on fluxbox where it doesn't show the wm border around firefox after system enters sleep mode? | 13:52 |
| debdog | spine-o-saurus: kind of. my system never goes into sleep mode and rarely gets rebooted. atm (up 4 days) firefox works but before that reboot it didn't for many weeks. I have no clue what could cause this. | 14:21 |
| gnarface | nvidia drivers | 14:55 |
| debdog | possibly | 14:57 |
| Manis | Hi. Does Devuan ship any OpenRC init scripts other than the ones included in the openrc package? | 16:12 |
| ted-ious | It should have a script for every package that runs from init. | 16:31 |
| rwp | Manis, Both openrc and runit currently mostly run the previous sysvinit scripts in compatibility mode. | 16:46 |
| rwp | This means that pretty much everything Just Works with those alternate inits. Which is good. | 16:46 |
| rwp | But things are not as native as all of us would like because people haven't done the work to make everything run with the native non-sysvinit yet by writing all of the needed native non-sysvinit init files. | 16:47 |
| rwp | But the way the init works is native openrc and runit behavior which still has all of the advantages of those inits. | 16:48 |
| temp64 | rwp is a freebsd spy, don't listen to him | 16:51 |
| Manis | uh, what rwp says sounds exactly like my observations? | 16:52 |
| Manis | is there a way to include different init scripts for sysvinit, openrc and others? | 16:52 |
| Manis | ...in a package | 16:53 |
| djph | don't most(tm) not-sysv init systems still "sort of" accept sysvinit scripts... kinda like how every hip new chat service has an IRC bridge? | 16:53 |
| Manis | lol | 16:53 |
| djph | "we're not IRC! we just ... uh ... need IRC to prop us up..." | 16:53 |
| Manis | I've seen that openzfs has sort of hybrid init scripts which use `#!/bin/sh` which, as OpenRC documentation says, breaks its dependency resolution which sounds kinda bad. | 16:54 |
| * Manis feels bad for using Matrix to join IRc. | 16:54 | |
| temp64 | not sure if you can declare dependencies on sysv init scripts from openrc ones | 16:54 |
| temp64 | i think i've ran into some issues trying to set up /home on zram because of that | 16:55 |
| rwp | temp64, Hahaha! The folks there think the reverse of me! :-) | 16:56 |
| temp64 | :D | 16:56 |
| Manis | My question regarding dependency resolution originates from what https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/blob/master/service-script-guide.md#syntax-of-service-scripts says. | 16:57 |
| Manis | > The interpreter for service scripts is #!/sbin/openrc-run. Not using this interpreter will break the use of dependencies and is not supported. (iow: if you insist on using #!/bin/sh you're on your own) | 16:57 |
| rwp | I have not installed openrc yet myself (have used runit) but it reads to me that /sbin/openrc-run is what invokes dependencies. I think. So that all makes sense so far. The openrc folks would probably know this in detail. | 17:02 |
| rwp | But if there is no native openrc init script for something but there is a sysvinit script then openrc will invoke the sysvinit script in legacy compatibility mode. Which normally works just fine. And so everything works. Right? | 17:03 |
| Manis | uh, this is what I'm wondering. Will OpenRC's compatibility mode magically read and parse the LSB comments? | 17:03 |
| rwp | I believe it does. IIRC (don't quote me) that all works in compatibility mode okay. And I think it must. Or things would not be working at all! | 17:05 |
| rwp | I found a StackExchange posting that said openrc calculates LSB dependencies at runtime. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/472706/is-it-possible-to-run-devuan-ascii-with-openrc-init | 17:08 |
| rwp | I advise to ignore the performance comments there as the difference seems insignificant to me. | 17:09 |
| Manis | Uh, doesn't insserv just use the LSB comments to determine the (S|K)[0-9]{2} number. | 17:10 |
| Manis | ? | 17:10 |
| rwp | IIRC startpar uses make -j internally to run those in parallel using the .depend.* files and the (S|K)[0-9]* numbers are no longer used. | 17:12 |
| Manis | Hmm, interesting. | 17:13 |
| rwp | Unless you revert the system to the previous sequential operation (still possible I believe) from before that change went into effect. (I forget the flags to control it. See the package's postinst scripts for what it is doing.) | 17:13 |
| rwp | In general we need more people to run the alternate inits and to understand how they work and to submit improvements. If no one ever runs them then they won't get the critical mass needed to make then truly excellent. | 17:14 |
| rwp | And with that I must drop AFK for several hours. See ya all later! | 17:16 |
| Manis | bye, rwp. | 17:17 |
| sozuba | Hi, i just installed devuan, but the system doesn't. Looks like the bootlaoder is not recognised. What should i do? | 17:35 |
| buZz | install with a supported bootloader? :D | 17:35 |
| djph | turn off secureboot | 17:35 |
| buZz | maybe turn on/off secureboot , turn on/off UEFI , in bios | 17:35 |
| sozuba | secureboot is off | 17:35 |
| buZz | what happens when you 'force' booting from the device? | 17:36 |
| buZz | any messages? | 17:36 |
| sozuba | is grub the default bootloader in devuan? | 17:36 |
| buZz | yes, its the default in debian | 17:36 |
| sozuba | what do you mean force booting? | 17:36 |
| buZz | by selecting a bootdevice in startup | 17:36 |
| sozuba | i have used grub before, with arch and gentoo | 17:36 |
| sozuba | buzz, ah when i force boot, my device again goes back to boot device list | 17:37 |
| oz4ga | sozuba: grub is THE Linux boot loader | 17:37 |
| buZz | sozuba: maybe you can remember how you configured grub back then :) | 17:38 |
| Manis | ...one of the Linux boot loaders. | 17:38 |
| buZz | true men like Manis boot with LOADLIN.EXE | 17:38 |
| buZz | :) | 17:38 |
| oz4ga | lol | 17:38 |
| Manis | lol | 17:39 |
| sozuba | when i face similar issue long back with something else (i don;t remeber exactly), i remember renaming the grubx64.efi, [osname]x64.efi, etc to bootx64.efi, i tried that too,i am not sure if it should be in capital. | 17:39 |
| buZz | or, just flipping switches , entering the bootloader by memory on each powerup | 17:39 |
| sozuba | what i am confused about it is that shumx64.efi, should i use that for booting? | 17:39 |
| Manis | I just meant to say that GRUB isn't the only option. There's also petitboot, u-boot, lilo, syslinux, yaboot, ... | 17:39 |
| sozuba | cause i've never used it, I always used my own keys to secure boot, no MS signed keys | 17:39 |
| buZz | i dont know, honestly i still havent felt any need for EFI :P | 17:39 |
| sozuba | ok | 17:40 |
| buZz | (and thus have it disabled) | 17:40 |
| sozuba | thanks for the support guys buzz djph | 17:40 |
| Manis | I don't think you can disable EFI, you can maybe disable EFI boot in your EFI. | 17:40 |
| buZz | *hugs* | 17:40 |
| buZz | Manis: oh sure, you can disable EFI boot in -bios- ;) | 17:41 |
| Manis | Which true BIOS can EFI boot? | 17:41 |
| buZz | maybe someday x86 will finally not require a BIOS and ISA bus | 17:41 |
| sozuba | Manis: you can disable and use lefacy boot | 17:41 |
| buZz | but not likely | 17:41 |
| fsmithred_ | sozuba, if you used one of the installer isos, you can boot into rescue mode to reinstall bootloader | 17:41 |
| sozuba | fsmithred_: will try that thank you | 17:42 |
| fsmithred_ | sometimes grub fails to install during the normal installation. I don't know why. | 17:42 |
| Manis | Telling your EFI firmware to prefer legacy boot does not disable EFI, it's still EFI under the hood. | 17:42 |
| buZz | sozuba: but enabling legacy boot doesnt directly fix it? | 17:42 |
| fsmithred_ | if you used one of the live isos, you would need to reinstall the bootloader manually. | 17:42 |
| sozuba | i don't want to argue, with legacy boot you can boot witout efi | 17:42 |
| sozuba | buzz iam not disabling efi, i want efi | 17:43 |
| buZz | oh ok | 17:43 |
| buZz | np | 17:43 |
| sozuba | i haven;tenabled secure bootthough | 17:43 |
| fsmithred_ | or download the netinstall | 17:43 |
| Kitty | did you create a EUFI partition during install ? | 17:43 |
| sozuba | i first want tobe able to boot and then i will signe the bootloader with my keys and boot devuan with secure boot | 17:43 |
| sozuba | Kitty: yes i have created n efi parition | 17:44 |
| Kitty | then you've done better than me, I always forget that step :p | 17:44 |
| sozuba | esp, swap, boot, root, home, and extra | 17:44 |
| sozuba | Kitty: haha, well i used to too | 17:44 |
| buZz | maybe need to mark a partition as 'active' ? | 17:45 |
| sozuba | buZz: i though gpart did that automatically when you set the esp boot flag? | 17:45 |
| sozuba | i willtry what fsmithred_ advised regarding reinstalling the bootloader or i will go about renaming the .efi loader | 17:46 |
| buZz | sozuba: i dont know , i dont use mice to install computers :D | 17:46 |
| buZz | or guis | 17:46 |
| sozuba | buZz: i haven't too, ots been a long while. I just wanted to try devuan and so used the live dvd | 17:47 |
| buZz | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i install with installer isos :) | 17:47 |
| sozuba | i mean gui | 17:47 |
| buZz | yeah i know | 17:48 |
| fsmithred_ | ah, you used the desktop-live or the minimal-live? | 17:48 |
| sozuba | desktop-live | 17:48 |
| fsmithred_ | ok, then you will need to reinstall bootloader manually or else download a netinstall iso and use that. | 17:48 |
| fsmithred_ | manually means, mount root partition, mount boot partition, mount esp partition to /boot/efi, bind-mount sys proc dev and maybe dev/pts and then chroot | 17:49 |
| fsmithred_ | grub-install && update-grub | 17:49 |
| fsmithred_ | I'm guessing you already know how to do that. | 17:49 |
| buZz | fsmithred_: its a known bug? | 17:49 |
| fsmithred_ | not a bug, just not a feature that ever got added to refractainstaller | 17:50 |
| buZz | maybe next refracturing ;) | 17:50 |
| buZz | ~badum | 17:50 |
| buZz | *tsssh* | 17:50 |
| sozuba | fsmithred_: ah, sounds possible, will do tht then and report | 17:50 |
| sozuba | thanks | 17:50 |
| fsmithred_ | if someone wants to take over packaging desktop-base and theme, I could spend more time on the installer. | 17:51 |
| temp64 | speaking of the installer, is there a way to specify partition sizes in a way that would make them consistent with how fdisk partitions drives? | 17:55 |
| buZz | temp64: you could just use fdisk :P | 17:56 |
| * buZz pragmatic | 17:56 | |
| temp64 | last time I installed on already existing partitions, yeah | 17:56 |
| ted-ious | Is there a daedalus installer to test yet? | 18:00 |
| buZz | temp64: i mean, press alt-f2 in the netinstall iso , get a terminal , use fdisk ;) | 18:00 |
| ted-ious | I don't see a netinst image but maybe the live dvd would work. | 18:00 |
| buZz | then alt-f1 to do back | 18:00 |
| djph | ted-ious: not that I'm aware of | 18:00 |
| buZz | Soon(TM) | 18:00 |
| ted-ious | If I wanted to start testing how should I install? | 18:01 |
| ted-ious | Upgrade chimaera? | 18:01 |
| temp64 | buZz, oh, so that's what i was supposed to press | 18:01 |
| temp64 | last time i only managed to enter some sort of recovery busybox console | 18:01 |
| buZz | :) | 18:01 |
| scorpion2185[m] | Somebody said something about using sxmo-utils on Devuan, debian patches it to use systemd | 18:10 |
| fsmithred_ | there are daedalus isos for testing. | 18:12 |
| scorpion2185[m] | will devuan support PinePhones? | 18:12 |
| sozuba | fsmithred_: Thank you installing bootloader manually works | 18:14 |
| fsmithred_ | scorpion2185[m], https://leste.maemo.org/PinePhone | 18:16 |
| fsmithred_ | :) | 18:16 |
| scorpion2185[m] | does it use devuan repo? | 18:17 |
| fsmithred_ | probably, but I don't know. | 18:18 |
| fsmithred_ | ask in #maemo-leste | 18:19 |
| scorpion2185[m] | that is just based on evuna right? | 18:23 |
| scorpion2185[m] | *devuan | 18:23 |
| buZz | yes, leste uses devuan repos | 18:23 |
| buZz | leste does support pp , not the pp-pro | 18:23 |
| buZz | (PR welcome though) | 18:23 |
| buZz | :) | 18:23 |
| scorpion2185[m] | how close is it to devuan? | 18:24 |
| buZz | how do you mean | 18:24 |
| buZz | its running xorg, a window manager, apt works | 18:24 |
| buZz | what else could define 'being devuan' ? | 18:24 |
| scorpion2185[m] | some derivative are very different from the original | 18:25 |
| buZz | scorpion2185[m]: Maemo was made on top of debian ancientversion | 18:25 |
| buZz | so predates systemd | 18:25 |
| buZz | it only made sense for Leste to use devuan , imho :) | 18:25 |
| buZz | also they are both dyne.org affiliated projects | 18:25 |
| scorpion2185[m] | btw i have a PP only | 18:26 |
| buZz | the PP keyboard is also supported in leste | 18:26 |
| buZz | also, not sure if its still the case, but Leste on PP with xorg gave you a faster GUI than -any- of the other distros with wayland | 18:26 |
| scorpion2185[m] | i use sxmo X version | 18:27 |
| scorpion2185[m] | debian has only wayland version, pateched to use soystemd | 18:27 |
| scorpion2185[m] | *patched | 18:27 |
| buZz | yeah Maemo has a lot more people involved in design influence it ;) | 18:27 |
| buZz | has had* | 18:27 |
| scorpion2185[m] | (sxmo wayland version aka swmo) | 18:27 |
| buZz | suckless is cute but well, verrry minimal | 18:28 |
| buZz | scorpion2185[m]: just go try it out if you have a spare SD card :P | 18:28 |
| scorpion2185[m] | they added 50+ or 60+? patches to dwm indeed | 18:28 |
| scorpion2185[m] | somebody told me that leste is based on devuan but actullay is it made on old debian version so? | 18:29 |
| buZz | nope | 18:29 |
| buZz | its devuan with maemo leste repos added | 18:30 |
| buZz | -maemo- was made on debian , yes | 18:30 |
| buZz | -maemo- is by nokia, for N800, N900 etc | 18:30 |
| buZz | still has a TON of active users , many years after nokia dev stopped | 18:30 |
| buZz | maemo leste is a project that takes nokia's opensource code of maemo, and brings it to modern linux | 18:31 |
| scorpion2185[m] | no FDE and no init choice | 18:31 |
| buZz | no clue | 18:32 |
| buZz | if you cant configure FDE on devuan , you cant on maemo leste either, indeed | 18:32 |
| scorpion2185[m] | https://maedevu.maemo.org/images/pinephone/ | 18:33 |
| buZz | i'm aware | 18:33 |
| scorpion2185[m] | FDE is luks you can on devuan | 18:33 |
| buZz | scorpion2185[m]: so, why cant you? | 18:33 |
| scorpion2185[m] | on arm with uboot is different. | 18:34 |
| scorpion2185[m] | if the images don't have it you have to make one | 18:34 |
| buZz | nice, how far are you now? | 18:34 |
| scorpion2185[m] | I just started to ask, so no official Devuan image? just to know | 18:35 |
| buZz | you can just grab a arm64 rootfs | 18:35 |
| buZz | or debootstrap | 18:35 |
| buZz | imho, i dont see a reason why you couldnt just try leste | 18:36 |
| buZz | you can run those ugly phone tools in leste too | 18:36 |
| buZz | or that tiling wm | 18:36 |
| buZz | hmm actually, doesnt debian's installer already work on pp | 18:36 |
| scorpion2185[m] | I didn't know about leste being devuan + leste repo | 18:37 |
| scorpion2185[m] | yes mobian has an installer that let you do that | 18:37 |
| scorpion2185[m] | gtg now | 18:37 |
| buZz | no i mean the -debian- installer | 18:37 |
| onefang | Might be #devuan-offtopic? | 18:37 |
| buZz | as it works 100% unmodified to install on Nokia N900 aswell | 18:37 |
| buZz | aww , sad ; https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/PINE64/PinePhone | 18:38 |
| buZz | onefang: they didnt want to join #maemo-leste either ;) | 18:39 |
| ted-ious | Can devuan do suspend to disk with luks fde? | 18:59 |
| buZz | i've seen luks fde setups that put whole bootloader externally on usb device | 19:07 |
| buZz | usb device not in? cant boot | 19:07 |
| ted-ious | That would be ok I guess. | 19:08 |
| ted-ious | But if devuan can resume from a luks swap partition it shouldn't matter where the boot files are kept. | 19:09 |
| latex | Package virtualbox-7.0 is not available, but is referred to by another package. | 19:16 |
| latex | This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or | 19:16 |
| latex | is only available from another source | 19:16 |
| ted-ious | It's probably still on version 6.1. | 19:17 |
| latex | Well I can't get it | 19:18 |
| latex | I'm on daedulus btw | 19:18 |
| latex | daedalus* | 19:18 |
| brocashelm | virtualbox is only available from ceres at the moment. it is safe to install it right now because daedalus is still very close to ceres | 19:27 |
| latex | How do I install it from ceres? | 20:09 |
| brocashelm | add the ceres repo to your /etc/apt/sources.list | 20:09 |
| brocashelm | run an apt update | 20:09 |
| brocashelm | then run apt install virtualbox (there may be other packages you'll need, but start with just one) | 20:10 |
| Ghost2 | hi, i want to install a newer version of neovim, is there an easy way to do this? version 0.7 is in ceres repository but idk if i can install that in my chimaera | 23:56 |
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