| ecxod | hello my friends, some days ago somebody passed me a list with packages that where not yet working without systemd, but for some reason I lost it. does someone have the location? | 11:58 |
|---|---|---|
| brocashelm | ecxod: do you mean this? https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 12:03 |
| ecxod | thank you my fried!! exactly | 12:03 |
| brocashelm | np | 12:03 |
| brocashelm | these are the current packages that devuan has blacklisted, due to systemd or impossible to use without systemd | 12:04 |
| ecxod | exactly what I was looking for | 12:04 |
| brocashelm | the rest of the packages are either merged with debian's repos (safe to use without systemd) and exclusive forks (200-300, give or take) | 12:05 |
| ecxod | is this a living list? are you updating it? or is it a one time tango? | 12:08 |
| rrq | the list is "live"; indefinite rumba ;) | 12:10 |
| rrq | .. or perhaps eternal polka | 12:11 |
| DashiePie | hi | 15:12 |
| tom-1 | Hello . I would appreciate any advice or help. | 16:03 |
| tom-1 | Patch question. (DWM) | 16:03 |
| tom-1 | Example. | 16:03 |
| tom-1 | I open the terminal on 1 tag, in the terminal I select for example a text file and open it with -ok. After that, a text editor opens on the 5th tag, I see it, but I stay on the 1st tag. What patch do I need to install so that I move to the tag where the text editor opens? | 16:03 |
| xrogaan | I don't use DWM, sorry | 16:22 |
| nemo | brocashelm: I'm rather shocked tomcat anything is on that list ☹ | 16:58 |
| nemo | (banned packages) | 16:58 |
| nemo | esp docs | 16:58 |
| nemo | brocashelm: hm. says tomcat9... so tomcat10 is fine? | 17:00 |
| nemo | it's not listed in dædalus | 17:00 |
| nemo | hrm. speaking of dædalus... I assume even if it's not officially released, it's not far off at this point | 17:01 |
| nemo | I could probably start putting it on dev servers to get ready for prod | 17:01 |
| hacksenwerk | Hi. I don't know who removed my access to the forum, but please delete my name from the database too. It is still there: https://dev1galaxy.org/profile.php?id=6435 | 17:19 |
| nemo | hacksenwerk: hm. wasn't me, but yeah, when I remove a user on request from hedgewars, I always set their username to user6535 | 17:46 |
| nemo | or whatever the uid is | 17:46 |
| hacksenwerk | nemo: Yeah anonymisation is also ok. | 17:47 |
| nemo | we don't get many requests like that, but I always try to get the user to agree to leaving posts in place 'cause, well, I haven't automated it, and it's such a pain to clean up. | 17:49 |
| nemo | and... removing 'em tears ragged holes in the history and makes everything confusing | 17:49 |
| nemo | fortunately in your case it seems you have no posts, orrrr, the person wiping didn't care | 17:50 |
| nemo | pedantry-wise, personally if I was you and trying to erase data links, I probably would have contacted people by private message on here ☺ | 17:51 |
| nemo | you know, since best to assume all public forums are recorded | 17:51 |
| nemo | another issue ofc with these "after the fact" things is validating identity... best to get all deletion parameters in writing up front while the person still controls the account | 17:54 |
| hacksenwerk | nemo: Yes I didn't post anything. I contacted all users of the admin group of the forum here in irc via pm, but without a response. | 17:59 |
| hacksenwerk | It is the last account I need to delete from my big account removing from many sites I did the last time. | 18:00 |
| u53r_ | Hi all! | 20:20 |
| debdog | Ahoy! | 20:22 |
| golinux | If you have a question, just ask | 20:22 |
| hacksenwerk | u53r_: Hi | 20:43 |
| u53r_ | One second please :) | 20:43 |
| u53r_ | and i asked | 20:44 |
| u53r__ | I have next situation on today: i have a thinkpad t440, but i need help with wifi driver. | 20:55 |
| u53r__ | Exactly, i want have more or less libre os linux-based | 20:57 |
| fsmithred | u53r__, for wireless driver installation, you can use debian wiki for information. We use the same packages. | 20:57 |
| fsmithred | wiki.debian.org - which wireless hardware do you have? | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | and how did you install devuan? Wireless firmware packages are usually installed automatically if they are needed. | 20:58 |
| u53r__ | I have the following questions: Devuan developers where do they usually take non-free or free drivers for wifi cards? | 21:00 |
| fsmithred | not sure I understand the question. For debian bullseye and devuan chimaera and anything older than that, wireless firmware packages are in non-free. In bookworm/daedalus they are in non-free-firmware (a new section) | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | brb, I need to get a power cord. | 21:02 |
| u53r__ | Why if I choose to install only the standard utilities, then I do not have a wifi connection? | 21:02 |
| n4dir | because they are usually non-free, but that has changed a bit, not sure how exactly it changed | 21:03 |
| n4dir | that is: if you can use it during installation (for debian, devuan will be similar, i assume) | 21:03 |
| fsmithred | u53r__, is it one of the broadcoms that can't be installed without a network connection? | 21:05 |
| fsmithred | which hardware and how did you install? | 21:05 |
| u53r__ | I mean, this patent doesn't care that I use proprietary drivers. | 21:05 |
| u53r__ | fsmithred: no | 21:07 |
| rustyaxe | Can one pass dmcrypt password on the kernel commandline? I just swapped my ssd into a new (to me) machine and for some reason, i cant get usb keyboard working in the initrd - UEFIs usb stack sees it and i can edit command line in grub, so that'd get me in the machine at least | 21:08 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, I don't know but question is this a stock generic kernel or a custom kernel? Has the /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf MODULES line been modified to reduce the size of the initramfs therefore missing the USB driver? | 21:10 |
| rustyaxe | stock kernel, but if i can poke the password into kernel command line, i can ssh into the machine and sort it as needed | 21:10 |
| rwp | Also I might try booting the netinst ISO in rescue-mode. That should be able to boot. Then use it to rebuild the initramfs with hopefully the correct USB keyboard driver and try that. | 21:11 |
| u53r__ | Can I leave the wifi driver to work after I complete the installation by choosing to install only the standard utilities in the installer that devuan uses? | 21:11 |
| rwp | u53r__, You can always install anything like that later. That's always possible. | 21:12 |
| u53r__ | rwp, but i not know how do this? | 21:13 |
| rwp | Your Thinkpad T440 *I think maybe* will use the firmware-iwlwifi package firmware. As noted that was moved from non-free to non-free-firmware section. | 21:13 |
| rwp | u53r__, Which installation ISO are you using? | 21:13 |
| u53r__ | standart devuan chimera amd64 iso | 21:14 |
| * rustyaxe reenables PXE boot and does this the unpleasant way... | 21:14 | |
| rwp | Background: For years the Debian installation ISOs (and therefore Devuan) did not include anything from non-free. But recently by General Resolution they voted to include non-free drivers in the installation ISO. I do not recall when this took effect, if it is in effect now or not. | 21:15 |
| fsmithred | rwp, yes non-free-firmware sectoion is active in bookworm/daedalus | 21:16 |
| n4dir | per default? | 21:16 |
| rwp | Does that include the install kernel on the ISO too? | 21:16 |
| fsmithred | yes, debian now installs the non-free firmware by default. | 21:16 |
| fsmithred | there is still a non-free section for other non-free stuff | 21:17 |
| rwp | Then u53r__ should have WiFi available during install. And also the non-free-firmware section should be available too. | 21:17 |
| n4dir | so non-free-firmware is added per default, but non-free and contrib are not? | 21:17 |
| scorpion2185[m] | but you can select 100% free | 21:17 |
| scorpion2185[m] | right? | 21:17 |
| fsmithred | yeah, pretty sure you can | 21:17 |
| rwp | scorpion2185[m], I think the problem is that the T440 u53r__ is using requires the firmware-iwlwifi firmware blob in order to function. Most Thinkpads need it. | 21:18 |
| u53r__ | am I right in thinking that I can just download the package non-free-firmware via apt? | 21:18 |
| fsmithred | in devuan, in the past, you had to select expert install and use a network mirror | 21:18 |
| fsmithred | to exclude the firmware | 21:18 |
| fsmithred | u53r__, it should be in the iso, in /firmware | 21:18 |
| rwp | u53r__, Do you have a running system installed okay? If so then yes. "apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi" and then reboot and it should work. View /var/log/boot or "dmesg" to look for missing firmware. | 21:19 |
| fsmithred | otherwise, yeah download and install with 'dpkg -i <package> | 21:19 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, You don't have any other way to boot the installer other than PXE? No USB boot? No CDROM boot? Bummer! But rescue-mode IIRC gives the option to decrypt encrypted partitions and guides through the chroot to the system and then you should be able to rebuild the initramfs and best of all your keyboard should be working through it. | 21:20 |
| u53r__ | the problem is that I can't use proprietary firmware for my wifi module and for Ethernet (RJ-45, I don't know for sure if there is free firmware for this) without selecting devuan enviroment installation during the installation process. | 21:23 |
| u53r__ | and I would like to do a clean installation of my packages while using my wi-fi card. | 21:25 |
| rwp | That just does not sound like it matches what I know about things. :-( But I know there is a remove_firmware.sh cleaner script according to the docs https://www.devuan.org/os/install to remove those politically incorrect firmwares after install if you desire. | 21:26 |
| rwp | Also look through https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/install-devuan for screenshots of an installation. | 21:27 |
| scorpion2185[m] | I didn't follow, usb-tethering? | 21:27 |
| u53r__ | yes | 21:27 |
| scorpion2185[m] | so you don't need the wifi-card | 21:28 |
| rwp | My personal belief is that firmware is tightly coupled to the hardware. If people decide they don't want the firmware then I say they have decided not to use the hardware too. Can't use one without the other. That's inconsistent. | 21:28 |
| rwp | Where was usb tethering mentioned in anything from u53r__? I just reviewed and I don't see anything about usb tethering but only T440 wifi. This confuses me. | 21:29 |
| u53r__ | that is, the choice of installing XFCE4 is necessary to get this very firmware? | 21:30 |
| rwp | No. | 21:30 |
| rwp | I also don't think installing XFCE4 will install firmware-iwlwifi either. Those are unrelated. | 21:32 |
| n4dir | it will come with a network-manager though | 21:32 |
| rwp | Installing XFCE4 will pull in network-manager. Agreed. | 21:32 |
| n4dir | perhaps that is his problem, after installing without GUI the lack of a gui-network-manager | 21:32 |
| rwp | Good observation. Should we explore that possibility? | 21:33 |
| rustyaxe | rwp: pxe is just fastest way to get into a working system on it as i have pxe already available n such | 21:33 |
| n4dir | wild thoughts: we could wait what he says to that interpretation :-) | 21:33 |
| n4dir | i am really not sure what his real problem is, but i am not that much in wifi | 21:33 |
| rwp | PXE booting is awesome! (Unfortunately I have let my local environment bit rot and I need to fix it.) | 21:34 |
| rustyaxe | Thu Jun 15 15:32:33 2023 daemon.info dnsmasq-tftp[1]: sent /tftp/netboot.xyz.efi to 10.187.187.131 | 21:34 |
| u53r__ | It's strange, but if I choose to install only system utilities, then my Internet connection does not work even via Ethernet. | 21:34 |
| rwp | I have used a lot of Thinkpads and most of them have the Intel WiFi and all have required the firmware-iwlwifi firmware blobs installed. | 21:34 |
| n4dir | u53r__: probably no entry in /etc/network/intefaces for ethernet then | 21:36 |
| rwp | u53r__, That is very unexpected! I myself usually go so far as to uncheck ALL of the boxes even the "standard system utilities" (to avoid exim4 getting installed, I install postfix) and networking works and I then install what I want. | 21:36 |
| n4dir | you could do a quick "dchlient eth0"; or such | 21:36 |
| rwp | Or possibly "ifup eth0". But definitely run "ip addr show" to see what the names of the network devices are at that time. | 21:37 |
| n4dir | but if i had ethernet that is what i would choose when asked which network-card to use, right at the beginning of the installation process | 21:37 |
| n4dir | and then it should work after the installation process automatically | 21:37 |
| rwp | Agreed. It's so much simpler and more robust to use wired ethernet for the installation. | 21:37 |
| * rwp must drop afk for a while, good luck! | 21:38 | |
| * rustyaxe goes back to stringing up a twisted pair along the alley to his neighbor's house so we can play DOOM using dialup modems and my PBX :P | 21:41 | |
| u53r__ | 10 mins wait | 21:41 |
| n4dir | waiting for what? | 21:42 |
| scorpion2185[m] | rwp I suggested to use usb tethering, so you don't need to use the wifi card. | 21:43 |
| scorpion2185[m] | you connect the phone to the wifi or something and share that via usb | 21:43 |
| scorpion2185[m] | but I didn't follow | 21:43 |
| u53r__ | I don't understand what the magic is, but when I reinstalled it, everything worked for me | 21:55 |
| u53r__ | I don't like such moments | 21:55 |
| n4dir | Oh. What an outcome. But great | 21:56 |
| u53r__ | I can add one more note that ifconfig does not seem to output all interfaces (if they do not have a connection) when ip addr show showed me all interfaces, even wlan0. | 22:05 |
| rwp | u53r__, That ip shows all but ifconfig does not show all is expected for some years now due to Linux kernel internal changes that ifconfig does not know about. ip is now the standard tool. Regardless of traditionalists *wanting* to use ifconfig. Even I have converted to ip on Linux systems. | 22:39 |
| gnarface | u53r__: ifconfig -a | 22:40 |
| gnarface | rwp: regardless, this isn't an example of a new feature. | 22:40 |
| gnarface | it basically ONLY matters with equal-cost multipath routing. | 22:41 |
| gnarface | there's just about nothingn in practical use cases ifconfig actually lacks | 22:41 |
| rwp | I'll keep using ip on Linux systems just the same. :-) | 22:42 |
| gnarface | so basically, if you're not load-balancing uploads across multiple separate physical gateways, ip gives you nothing useful other than a change in syntax and default behaviors | 22:42 |
| gnarface | it's fine for you to use whatever you want, but it's not fine to omit information like "ifconfig -a" | 22:43 |
| gnarface | it was never the default to show unconfigured devices | 22:43 |
| rwp | Since ip is the officially recommended and supported tool from the Linux kernel developers I might reverse that and say the same thing! | 22:43 |
| rwp | Traditionally I think ifconfig has always showed unconfigured devices too. And by that I mean on HP-UX (where I spent a lot of time) and other BSD based kernels like it. | 22:44 |
| gnarface | not any time recently on linux | 22:45 |
| rwp | Linux has done some odd things. Linux reverses the order of routes in the "netstat -nr" (and ip route show) output. It's upside down! But only for IPv4. | 22:45 |
| rwp | The IPv6 listing is in the correct order. Go figure! | 22:46 |
| gnarface | "ifconfig -a" is the default on openbsd, you're right about that | 22:46 |
| gnarface | it says right in the man page | 22:46 |
| rwp | It's also the default on FreeBSD and NetBSD too. So Linux is outnumbered by the numbers. | 22:46 |
| gnarface | right, but let's be honest here. you knew the user's problem was not a regression in ifconfig. | 22:58 |
| gnarface | but you allowed that to be implied on purpose, to push an agenda. | 22:59 |
| gnarface | devuan still supports ifconfig | 22:59 |
| gnarface | and so far at least, the introduction of ip hasn't broken it | 22:59 |
| rwp | No. I did NOT know what the users problem was with ifconfig. I have not used ifconfig in a decade. I know it is strongly recommended against and I stopped using it. | 23:00 |
| rwp | I learned from you just now that ifconfig does not show unconfigured interfaces. I never knew that before a few minutes ago. | 23:00 |
| rwp | Because on every other kernel it does show all interfaces. Let's jump over to -offtopic and continue. | 23:01 |
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