| dgriffi | not even "echo -e '\007'" will make the terminal bell ring | 03:18 |
|---|---|---|
| dgriffi | this is a laptop. | 03:20 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: do you see the terminal "blink" though when it should beep? | 03:23 |
| dgriffi | no | 03:23 |
| gnarface | oh, hmm | 03:24 |
| gnarface | so no visual bell either | 03:24 |
| gnarface | sometimes it may not be actually disabled, it may simply be changed to "visual" | 03:24 |
| dgriffi | if I hold control and middle click to turn on visual bell, then it'll flash, but no beep | 03:24 |
| gnarface | do you have pulseaudio, pipewire, or jack running? (or esd or arts or any other such sound daemon in userspace?) | 03:25 |
| dgriffi | pulseaudio is not running | 03:25 |
| gnarface | if you run alsamixer, what does it say for "Card: " in the top left? | 03:26 |
| dgriffi | HDA Intel PCH | 03:26 |
| dgriffi | the beep slider was mute and down. but undoing that didnm't help... donno why that would have changes. | 03:27 |
| rrq | you may need to blacklist the pcspkr module and ensure the snd-pcsp module is loaded, so as to have an emulated pc speaker via the sound card. | 03:31 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: so you do see a "beep" control in there? this likely means you don't actually have a real onboard pc speaker device as old school pc hardware did. what you have is pc speaker emulation going through the main soundcard. this is a laptop, isn't it? | 03:33 |
| gnarface | (that's very common for laptops these days) | 03:33 |
| dgriffi | gnarface: correct. no actual old-school PC speaker | 03:33 |
| dgriffi | This is a Thinkpad T420 | 03:33 |
| dgriffi | it worked okay before I reinstalled to Devuan | 03:34 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: so this means it's also subject to the main system volume | 03:34 |
| dgriffi | I guess I'll check with the backups to see what was in /etc | 03:34 |
| gnarface | and also possibly driver issues... | 03:34 |
| dgriffi | main volume is fine. | 03:34 |
| dgriffi | playing media, no problem. | 03:34 |
| gnarface | you can hear it right now if you play music or something? | 03:34 |
| dgriffi | yes | 03:35 |
| gnarface | you using chimaera? | 03:35 |
| gnarface | with the stock kernel? | 03:35 |
| dgriffi | daedalus | 03:35 |
| dgriffi | stock kernel | 03:35 |
| gnarface | when you say it was working, when was it working? (distro and kernel) | 03:36 |
| gnarface | there's a statistically high likelyhood you're facing a regression in the snd-hda-intel module | 03:36 |
| gnarface | or perhaps you were passing it some module options that you didn't copy over to daedalus? | 03:37 |
| gnarface | beep_mode should be 1 by default afaik though... so i'm grasping here | 03:38 |
| gnarface | but perhaps you were passing model=something? | 03:38 |
| dgriffi | how about this... why would the console terminal beep, but not xterm or mate terminal? | 03:38 |
| gnarface | OH, you have beeps in some places?? | 03:38 |
| gnarface | sorry i spaced that | 03:39 |
| gnarface | so it's not a driver issue then | 03:39 |
| gnarface | the only possibility is something set in X11 | 03:40 |
| gnarface | can you find anything that beeps while you're in the graphical environment? | 03:40 |
| gnarface | hexchat beeps at me if i hit backspace in an empty text field | 03:40 |
| dgriffi | in its previous life as a Debian machine, I had pulseaudio running. I turned on pulseaudio by typing "pulseaudio" in one xterm and NOW terminal beeps work. | 03:40 |
| gnarface | quite odd | 03:41 |
| dgriffi | I'd rather not use pulseaudio | 03:41 |
| gnarface | i don't blame you | 03:41 |
| gnarface | shouldn't be necessary but if that's all that works it suggests you may need to create a ~/.asoundrc ... filled with what though exactly i'm not sure | 03:41 |
| dgriffi | when I started up pulseaudio just now, it sounded like a mouse running around in a cardboard box. | 03:41 |
| dgriffi | then after ten seconds, that stopped | 03:42 |
| gnarface | i have the same audio driver here so i'm well versed with its common misbehaviors but i can't recreate the issue for testing because my motherboard actually furnishes the real pc speaker | 03:42 |
| gnarface | (a beep comes out of the case still and "beep" does not show up in my alsamixer view) | 03:43 |
| dgriffi | seems like it may be a MATE problem. suppose it always wants to send beeps to pulseaudio. | 03:43 |
| gnarface | could it be that it just disables the beeps by default as a misguided courtesy, and pulseaudio just re-enables them because it's dumb? | 03:44 |
| dgriffi | I see no options that would seem to control that | 03:44 |
| gnarface | it'd be in the config files probably, not in the pavucontrol gui | 03:44 |
| gnarface | what are you using for irc? | 03:44 |
| dgriffi | irssi on a linode host | 03:45 |
| gnarface | hexchat here beeps at me if i press backspace in this text field with nothing in it | 03:45 |
| dgriffi | decidedly not the same machine I'm having trouble on | 03:45 |
| gnarface | it's the only example i have except for rxvt-unicode | 03:45 |
| dgriffi | I turned on visual bell in this xterm. please beep | 03:45 |
| gnarface | can you see if rxvt-unicode or hexchat will beep at you? | 03:45 |
| dgriffi | I want to like rxvt, but it does things a little off | 03:46 |
| gnarface | i'm also on daedalus here, with enlightenment instead of mate, no graphical login | 03:46 |
| gnarface | i'm not suggesting a lifestyle change, i'm just suggesting you install it long enough to test | 03:46 |
| dgriffi | no beeps wtih rxvt-unicode | 03:46 |
| gnarface | huh, damn | 03:46 |
| gnarface | so it seems like something the environment must set | 03:46 |
| gnarface | rxvt-unicode definitely beeps here if i don't pass "-vb" on the command-line | 03:47 |
| gnarface | with "-vb" it blinks instead | 03:47 |
| gnarface | are you using a graphical login or do you just run startx? | 03:47 |
| gnarface | if you just run startx, it has to be mate or something in your user's shell environment itself | 03:48 |
| gnarface | if you use a graphical login it could be something passed through the shell environment by that | 03:48 |
| dgriffi | graphical login | 03:48 |
| gnarface | off the top of my head i cannot recall seeing such behavior so at this point i can only guess | 03:48 |
| dgriffi | my backups are offline in another room. | 03:50 |
| dgriffi | here's something irritating... sound is distorted in Frotz | 03:50 |
| dgriffi | err, no. I think I may have made a mess of that on my own. | 03:51 |
| gnarface | frotz has audio?! | 03:52 |
| dgriffi | yes. in 2019 the audio backend for the curses version got an overhaul | 03:52 |
| gnarface | interesting | 03:53 |
| gnarface | we're talking about the same frotz that runs Zork .dat files right? | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | audio is through blorb packaging only | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | yes | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | the old infocom-style format is no longer supported. | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | it /was/ supported through the OSS driver. | 03:53 |
| gnarface | huh | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | now it'll do audio samples AND ogg playback OR MOD playback | 03:53 |
| dgriffi | so your game could have background music and then swooshes of swords. | 03:54 |
| gnarface | none of my infocom games have audio to begin with, so it's not something i'd have noticed change | 03:54 |
| dgriffi | okay, there's something funky in the new setup that's getting curses frotz audio attenuated. | 03:55 |
| gnarface | was the old working install chimaera? | 03:55 |
| dgriffi | infocom used it only twice | 03:55 |
| dgriffi | "Sherlock" and "Lurking Horror" | 03:55 |
| gnarface | huh | 03:55 |
| dgriffi | the old working install was Bookworm | 03:55 |
| gnarface | no pulseaudio there either? | 03:56 |
| dgriffi | pulseaudio was there | 03:56 |
| dgriffi | It's okay, but has a nasty tendency to gobble up all available CPU and memory. | 03:56 |
| gnarface | could pulseaudio have been the only difference? | 03:56 |
| dgriffi | perhaps. I may begrudgingly keep it | 03:56 |
| dgriffi | "Bureaucracy" had sound slightly more advanced than a simple beep. It had high and low beeps. | 03:58 |
| dgriffi | how often do you play infocom-ish games? | 04:00 |
| rustytaco | try pipewire | 04:00 |
| rustytaco | it solved my pulseaudio woes | 04:00 |
| dgriffi | I'll do that. | 04:00 |
| gnarface | recently not much, but i played Zork 1 and Beyond Zork a lot, and to a lesser degree Zork 2 and 3 | 04:01 |
| gnarface | they seem to work still | 04:01 |
| dgriffi | I went with using libao for audio output so as to avoid much of this crap. | 04:01 |
| gnarface | there should be a way to make the beeps work normally but i'm at a loss at this point | 04:02 |
| gnarface | you make any changes to /etc/inputrc perhaps? | 04:02 |
| rustytaco | I like pipewire a lot. It's suitable to do the things; qpwgraph lets you re-arrange connections in a gui way; wireplumber handles automatically plumbing things up; there's pipewire-pulse too to emulate pulseaudio for needful programs | 04:02 |
| rustytaco | dgriffi: fwiw, pulse and pipewire both have OSS wrappers that might be helpful too, for really old softwares | 04:03 |
| dgriffi | that would be nice for games like Koules. | 04:04 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: the alsa-oss package, did you install it? | 04:04 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: actually, make sure you have these packages if you don't yet: alsa-oss alsa-tools alsa-topology-conf alsa-utils alsa-ucm-conf | 04:05 |
| rustytaco | dgriffi: padsp - PulseAudio OSS Wrapper | 04:05 |
| gnarface | dgriffi: try those alsa packages first, if they don't work then maybe resort to pulseaudio stuff | 04:05 |
| rustytaco | you'd run it like so: padsp yourprogramhere and it hooks magic $LD_PRELOAD stuff up -- it wont work with sudo, of course as environment is (rightfully) cleared | 04:06 |
| dgriffi | well, frotz seemed to like that jsut fine. | 04:08 |
| dgriffi | but I got ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/\16942LIB/pulseaudio/libpulsedsp.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored. | 04:08 |
| dgriffi | anyhow, libao and a minimal amount of stuff to do just samples works on really old machines. | 04:09 |
| dgriffi | asking old machines to do OGG or MOD is too much | 04:09 |
| dgriffi | which is why the DOS port won't have OGG or MOD support. | 04:10 |
| dgriffi | an 8088 PC or 286 can barely handle playing mods just alone. | 04:12 |
| dgriffi | and much of that has to do with 16-bit OS limitations. | 04:13 |
| dgriffi | but, there's there charm of running new games on ancient hardware. | 04:13 |
| dgriffi | what's really fun is running Frotz on a PDP-10. | 04:13 |
| rustytaco | seems about as fun as screwing a cactus *shrug* | 04:13 |
| dgriffi | rustytaco: people still play with ancient cars, so... | 04:14 |
| dgriffi | don't any of you play with old computing hardware? | 04:19 |
| gnarface | i don't have anything as old as a pdp-10 here | 04:19 |
| * dgriffi emulates a PDP-10 for this... most of the time. | 04:20 | |
| gnarface | i have a couple pentiumII's though | 04:20 |
| gnarface | everything i have that was older burned out from use or sabotage | 04:20 |
| dgriffi | then there's the Living Computer Museum that has real PDP-10 hardware they allow people to use remotely. | 04:20 |
| rustytaco | http://istabpeople.com/junk/kaypro/IMG_20230706_151121.jpg i get it | 04:54 |
| rustytaco | sometimes i irc from the kaypro | 04:54 |
| luis__ | Hello, I've been trying to configure Night Light via CLI (the setting doesn't seem to exist in the GUI), but it doesn't work | 08:06 |
| luis__ | It's currently 8:05 here, I set from 8 to 9, the temperature to 2000 and enable to true, but it doesn't change anything | 08:06 |
| debdog | night light as in adjusting backlight? | 08:11 |
| luis__ | as in adjusting the light temperature for day and night | 08:19 |
| luis | how do I upgrade cinnamon ? There's a version 5.8.2 and I'm on 4.8.6 | 14:09 |
| al1r4d | luis: is the latest version available in the repository? | 14:10 |
| luis | I tried getting it from the backports, but it neither is (how do I check ?) or the install command doesn't work because cinnamon is set to manually installed | 14:11 |
| luis | I don't really know much of this stuff | 14:11 |
| luis | by the way, where can I find preiew versions of Deadalus ? | 14:28 |
| luis | al1r4d, I got this: | 14:32 |
| luis | cinnamon: | 14:32 |
| luis | Installed: 4.8.6-2+deb11u1 | 14:32 |
| luis | Candidate: 4.8.6-2+deb11u1 | 14:32 |
| luis | Version table: | 14:32 |
| luis | *** 4.8.6-2+deb11u1 500 | 14:32 |
| luis | 500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera/main amd64 Packages | 14:32 |
| luis | 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status | 14:32 |
| luis | does this mean the package isn't present in the backports ? | 14:32 |
| al1r4d | luis: try search on backports | 14:33 |
| luis | You mean "apt-cache -t chimaera-backports policy cinnamon" ? Same results | 14:34 |
| luis | al1r4d, | 14:38 |
| luis | btw it's up to date in Debian 12, so backports should work : https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/cinnamon | 14:41 |
| debdog | luis: you could just upgrade to daedalus which has cinnamon 5.6.8-1 | 14:43 |
| luis | debdog, I'd like to try that, but I can't seem to find a link to the preview version | 14:44 |
| debdog | I am not sure what you mean. the installer CDROM/DVD? if so, you don't need that | 14:45 |
| luis | The ISO for the bootable key | 14:46 |
| debdog | sorry, I do not understand | 14:47 |
| luis | arf, just found it nvm | 14:47 |
| debdog | upgrading usually just is a series of apt command | 14:47 |
| debdog | s | 14:47 |
| luis | can you provide me the instructions ? | 14:48 |
| luis | shouldn't the cinnamon package be up to date in the backports anyway ? Or are my backports weird ? | 14:48 |
| debdog | I don't use backports, no clue, sorry | 14:48 |
| luis | ok, how od I upgrade to daedalus without reinstalling ? | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | change 'chimaera' to 'daedalus' in /etc/apt/sources.list | 14:51 |
| fsmithred | run: apt update | 14:51 |
| debdog | I am searching for instructions so I won't have to type them all... | 14:51 |
| fsmithred | apt upgrade | 14:51 |
| fsmithred | apt dist-upgrade | 14:51 |
| fsmithred | reboot | 14:51 |
| debdog | hehe, or let someone else do the job | 14:51 |
| debdog | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2898 | 14:52 |
| fsmithred | you may have to issue other commands along the way | 14:52 |
| luis | Thank you | 14:52 |
| fsmithred | also worthwhile to look at older upgrade instructions (beowulf to chimaera) might havae some useful hints | 14:52 |
| fsmithred | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/upgrade-to-chimaera | 14:53 |
| debdog | first, before even altering sources list, luis, do a apt update and apt upgrade THEN alter sources.list | 14:53 |
| fsmithred | yeah, good idea | 14:53 |
| fsmithred | also back up any important data | 14:53 |
| luis | yes, data already backed up, this is a devuan test run | 14:54 |
| fsmithred | chimaera to daedalus is a pretty easy upgrade compared to some of the early ones | 14:54 |
| debdog | yah, for some reason I have less problems typing daedalus than chmaera | 14:55 |
| luis | there we go, cya if the system dies | 14:55 |
| debdog | have success! | 14:57 |
| luis | thanks ! | 14:58 |
| al1r4d | fsmithred, true | 15:13 |
| al1r4d | you only need change the source.list and do apt upgrade | 15:14 |
| luis | what I don't understand is why it's not present in the backports | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | and dist-upgrade to get new packages | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | lots of things are not in backports | 15:15 |
| luis | do we have an idea for the release date of daedalus ? | 15:15 |
| fsmithred | soon | 15:16 |
| fsmithred | current installer isos might be ready to go | 15:16 |
| fsmithred | daedalus itself is ready | 15:16 |
| luis | that's nice | 15:18 |
| luis__ | it's working ! | 15:23 |
| luis__ | the system seems less stable than before though | 15:23 |
| debdog | that was quick | 15:23 |
| luis__ | wym ? | 15:23 |
| luis__ | my mouse seems slower as weel | 15:23 |
| debdog | less than half an hour for the entire update | 15:24 |
| luis__ | Fast network, fast cpu I guess | 15:24 |
| al1r4d | luis__, maybe you can check this: beta.devuan.org | 15:31 |
| luis__ | thank you | 15:33 |
| luis__ | has anyone managed to install mint-y themes ? | 15:48 |
| u-amarsh04 | some upgrades or something in unstable has stopped plasma desktop starting | 15:55 |
| u-amarsh04 | now in syslog getting: Activated service 'org.freedesktop.UDisks2' failed: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1 | 15:57 |
| al1r4d | luis__: try it | 15:59 |
| luis__ | i'm trying | 15:59 |
| helios21 | In case you are on Devuan Unstable (aka Ceres) better avoid updating libgudev, see https://bugs.debian.org/1041703 and my mail to dng-ml | 16:36 |
| u-amarsh04 | thanks helios21 | 16:38 |
| helios21 | So far managed well enough on Devuan, but it appears to me also regarding usrmerge, it may become more and more difficult. | 16:41 |
| helios21 | Well will see about it, also reported this to Devuan developers, so they are aware, in case they have not been already. | 16:41 |
| u-amarsh04 | thanks again helios21 downgraded libgudev-1.0-0 and related packages to 237-2 and fairly well back to normal | 16:57 |
| helios21 | you are welcome | 16:59 |
| helios21 | I hope Debian package maintainers for libgudev-1.0-0 do not bash too hard at me for temporarily raising the bug severity from serious to grave before I noticed that the reported of the bug used libeudev on Debian | 17:00 |
| helios21 | In an ideal world there would be communication about a breaking change like this, but unlikely to happen from side of the Debian package maintainers for libgudev I bet. | 17:01 |
| helios21 | u-amarsh04: by the way I posted an apt pinning file for temporarily preventing the upgrade of libgudev on dng-ml | 17:18 |
| u-amarsh04 | thanks! | 17:20 |
| u-amarsh04 | password saving on chromium has messed up though /-: | 17:28 |
| helios21 | hmm, eudev is not even in Debian, I was not aware of this. | 18:32 |
| ___used | why has debian keyring package updated this weekend? compromised keys or about to expire? | 20:42 |
| golinux | Ask Debian? | 20:44 |
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