| slips | tzag folks, has anyone else been dealing with usb breakage on ceres lately? Curious if this is just my laptop being stupid or something but i've done a fresh ceres install on it and both then and on my previous install USB was completely broken on XOrg (which includes my trackpad and internal keyboard). | 03:21 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | slips: easiest way to check would be to load up a chimaera live iso | 03:42 |
| gnarface | (i've ditched ceres for daedalus currently, so i can't speak directly about it) | 03:43 |
| slips | gnarface: i've determined that this is pretty much exclusively a ceres issue considering USB seems to work just fine on a fresh Chimaera install up until i switch to ceres. | 03:54 |
| gnarface | slips: interesting. i wonder if daedalus would be different | 03:55 |
| rrq | (daedalus is still in the freezer since beginning July) | 03:56 |
| rrq | obviously, "ceres" is not a release label, but a label for the most recent versions of all packages.. os anything can happen | 03:57 |
| rrq | os=so | 03:57 |
| slips | that i am aware of, just was curious if anyone else on ceres was having this issue lol. | 03:57 |
| slips | This was a bad time for shit to break for me lol, considering i start my classes again in 2 weeks and i need my laptop fo that | 03:58 |
| slips | for* | 03:58 |
| rrq | I believe there are some badness currently from mismatch in (e)udev versioning expectations | 03:59 |
| rrq | but I don't play in that pond so don't know the details | 04:01 |
| slips | ah, fun. | 04:01 |
| rrq | I think this (https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=43108#p43108) was related | 04:02 |
| slips | Yeah looking through the logs now that seems to check out. Very unfortunate. | 04:02 |
| Xenguy | slips, If you want stability then Ceres is the wrong location for you : -) | 04:02 |
| slips | lol, that's a fair point | 04:03 |
| Xenguy | I'm on oldstable, I like stability that much, haha | 04:03 |
| Xenguy | But I'm also just lazy about my systems anymore | 04:03 |
| slips | i don't think i could stomach daily driving oldstable lol | 04:03 |
| slips | arch ruined me in terms of software up-to-dateness | 04:04 |
| Xenguy | It's all a question of requirements, no? | 04:04 |
| Xenguy | Oh no, don't care about the new shiny | 04:04 |
| Xenguy | Just do the basic stuff, that's all dandy | 04:04 |
| Xenguy | But you do you | 04:04 |
| slips | that's fair enough | 04:04 |
| slips | i just like tinkering and having the shiny new thing can be helpful for that | 04:05 |
| Xenguy | I really like the Trailing Edge[TM], it's mostly bullet proof | 04:05 |
| Xenguy | I used to like the tinkering too | 04:05 |
| slips | that's fair enough | 04:05 |
| Xenguy | One thing tinkering does is teach you the system better, so if you ever decide to stop, you can keep things working nicely : -) | 04:06 |
| slips | truth be told i probably don't even need Ceres considering i pretty much only ever use my laptop (which has ceres on it) when i'm too lazy to get out of bed and use my desktop lol. Well, that and classes. and also making sure my devuan mirror is still up. | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | So it's all good I say, I just love Linux, and it's awful to see crap like systemd arrive, but I still adore De[biva]n, after all these years | 04:07 |
| slips | true that | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | What's one step back from Ceres? | 04:08 |
| Xenguy | Soon to be Excalibur? | 04:08 |
| slips | yeah probably Daedalus or Excalibur when that drops | 04:08 |
| Xenguy | In theory, that would be more 'stable' | 04:08 |
| Xenguy | The next step back is real 'stable', Daedalus (or soon'ish) | 04:09 |
| slips | oh wait, i think this forum post rrq linked is just downgrading to 237-2, i don't know why they felt the need to add Testing for that | 04:10 |
| slips | can you not downgrade packages via apt? i thought you could | 04:10 |
| rrq | you need to have a sources.list point that includes the version you want | 04:10 |
| slips | ahhh i see. | 04:11 |
| slips | brb, trying this | 04:11 |
| slips | argh, right. forgot i have sddm enabled. | 04:12 |
| slips | time to go find a LiveISO usb lol | 04:12 |
| rrq | (it should be 'daedalus' rather than 'testing' of course) | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | I've never seen an 'official' way to rollback with apt-get, but maybe there is wizardry that can do that | 04:15 |
| rrq | jst use a sources.list like https://pkginfo.devuan.org/sources.list.txt and then you have options :) | 04:16 |
| rrq | .. though pkginfo is on the devuan infra.. a normal persion uses 'deb.devuan.org' | 04:18 |
| rrq | person | 04:18 |
| Xenguy | That's a very nice summary though, well done | 04:19 |
| slips | time for a stupid question, is intel SOF firmware not in the non-free repos? i've been looking for it but i can't find it anymore. | 05:09 |
| gnarface | hmm, which one is that? | 05:10 |
| gnarface | slips: oh, as of daedalus they probably moved that from "non-free" to "non-free-firmware" along with all the non-free video card drivers | 05:11 |
| slips | ahh, that makes sense. | 05:11 |
| gnarface | i think they probably should have called it "non-free-drivers" because calling it firmware has been confusing people | 05:12 |
| slips | aye | 05:12 |
| slips | i mean IMO it would've just been better to stay in the non-free but i'm not a devuan maintainer so what do i know lol | 05:14 |
| slips | okay this may be more of an openrc question than a devuan question but how would i go about disabling agetty for a specific tty? on runit you could just remove it from the active service dir but i don't see any agetty services in openrc. | 05:34 |
| rwp | slips, Which init are you running? If sysvinit then comment out the line in /etc/inittab and then "telinit q" to reload it. | 05:38 |
| rwp | Reading back... Downgrades are not officially supported as such but there are a handful of distinctly different ways to accomplish it and mostly there are no problems with doing it. | 05:40 |
| slips | rwp: ah, just goes to show my sysvinit knowledge lol. | 05:41 |
| rwp | I often configure on or off the serial port console getty but I have never had reason to disable the vt terminal getty. | 05:43 |
| rwp | In particular the serial port console is useful with light weight headless virtual machines. | 05:43 |
| slips | rwp: I'm using ly, which is a tty-based display manager (basically somewhere in between a full-fat dm and an agetty prompt) and that requires agetty to be turned off. | 05:51 |
| slips | for the tty it's running on at least | 05:53 |
| abk | heeelp. I'm trying to migrate from debian 11 according to https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/bullseye-to-chimaera and it says «systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd.» | 05:58 |
| mason | abk: Don't remove it until you've installed your replacement. | 05:58 |
| mason | abk: Install the new one, reboot, then you're safe to remove systemd. | 05:58 |
| abk | even without installing eudev? | 05:59 |
| abk | «apt-get install eudev» fails with that legend. | 05:59 |
| mason | abk: systemd-udev will run under sysvinit - so reboot into your new init first, then you can uninstall systemd things | 06:00 |
| mason | Things can be funny after switching udev implementations, so reboot after doing that too. | 06:00 |
| abk | ok. Thanks! Let's do it. | 06:00 |
| mason | Come back if you have issues. | 06:01 |
| abk | it worked :) | 06:01 |
| mason | good good | 06:02 |
| gnarface | slips: fyi i don't think you're limited to just the 6 default ones | 06:18 |
| rrq | yes, the kernel nowadays support 64 virtual terminals, while sysvinit (and others?) typically only start logins (via getty) on the first 6, and Xorg typically starts at the first available | 06:23 |
| rrq | you can use '# openvt bash' (as root) to start bash an next free vt, and '# openvt -c 42 bash' to start bash on vt42, then | 06:25 |
| rrq | use '# chvt 42' to make vt42 the foreground one | 06:25 |
| rrq | the kernel also has built-in keyboard shortcuts to shift foreground vt | 06:26 |
| rrq | 'man ioctl_console' has details | 06:29 |
| rrq | .. try also '# cat /dev/vcsa1' (or 2, 3, etc) to get an ascii dump of vt1 (or 2, 3, etc) | 06:34 |
| Afdal | Is there an ETA on Daedalus getting bumped up to official Stable release? | 06:36 |
| rrq | not really, except "very soon" | 06:37 |
| slips | gnarface: hmm, very interesting. | 09:12 |
| brocashelm | afdal: "when it's ready" | 09:24 |
| Afdal | :'} | 09:26 |
| micdud | anyone use Daedalus on a touchscreen successfully without a mouse keyboard ? ( i tried gnome with wayland few months back) but had issues of half the apps not launching at all (browsers, office, ect...) | 14:45 |
| gnarface | that's probably a pretty rare configuration | 14:49 |
| gnarface | aside from device permissions though, i don't think it should be too different from debian so maybe you can get some tips from their wiki | 14:49 |
| micdud | yea, i mainly use xfce with xorg for normal desktops , but wanted to build a comp for kiosk style usage, basic youtube and email type stuff out of some old dell inspiron touchscreen or laptops | 14:53 |
| gnarface | do you have touch input working for mouse control and stuff? | 14:56 |
| micdud | yea, even keyboard popes up when in input type situations | 14:56 |
| micdud | just wan not sure on what normall apps could not launch , no error outputs even when launching from shell | 14:57 |
| gnarface | hmm, i wonder if the launch issues are unrelated | 14:57 |
| gnarface | how much ram is there? | 14:58 |
| gnarface | is there swap too? | 14:58 |
| micdud | 4 or 6 gig , enough swap | 14:59 |
| gnarface | hmm | 14:59 |
| gnarface | i wonder if programs really exit if they don't detect a mouse. seems like if so there should be an easy way around it | 15:00 |
| micdud | first time using wayland , or the new gnome ( but that was recomended to get the full touchscreen functionality, including gestures) | 15:00 |
| gnarface | well, stick around. someone might know. | 15:01 |
| micdud | not mouse or keyboard issue, leaning towards wayland/gnome (its more complex apps that do not want to start) simpler ones work just fine (and nothing obvious in the logs) | 15:26 |
| gnarface | is it possible you're missing appropriate graphics drivers or opengl libraries or something like that? | 15:31 |
| micdud | standard amd-firmware-graphics installed and i assume desktop/wayland install should pull all those other libs in | 15:35 |
| gnarface | it should but you may want to double-check you've got all the right mesa packages | 15:36 |
| micdud | and just realized that there is no wayland log . might be systemd logging only | 15:41 |
| gnarface | hmm | 15:42 |
| gnarface | seems possible but i don't know. do you have rsyslog installed? | 15:43 |
| micdud | yes | 15:43 |
| gnarface | did you check in ~/.local/share/ ? | 15:44 |
| rrq | is 'wayland' something one can run? (I can't find it) | 15:44 |
| micdud | no wayland stuff in ~/.local/share/ | 15:46 |
| rrq | micdud: when you say that you run wayland, which package or progrm do you mean? | 15:48 |
| micdud | wayland as a replacement for xorg | 15:48 |
| micdud | xwayland is the package | 15:49 |
| rrq | I kind of know waht it is, but I'm confused about how to install it | 15:49 |
| rrq | ok | 15:49 |
| rrq | so pgrep -a Xorg would give the program and command line I guess | 15:51 |
| rrq | and it'd be using the usual Xorg access for inputs | 15:53 |
| * rrq sorry I interupted.. I'm just curious .. wish to learn.. | 15:56 | |
| micdud | usually i stick to old minimal and tested . but sometimes try this new age stuff like gnome and wayland to get some new bells and whistles working :) | 16:02 |
| micdud | otherwise i cannot stand of how many packages/services gnome desktop needs to function | 16:04 |
| rrq | hmm so I'd neeed to go gnome to trial programs using the wayland protocol? | 16:12 |
| micdud | look at desktops that support it , i know xfce is still not there , early testing | 16:15 |
| rrq | yeah; last I tried it, gnome didn't support my workflow at all well.. but maybe it has improved. | 16:16 |
| micdud | ther is 2 gnomes in debian btw one is the new notepad type workflow one is the old pannel type workflow | 16:18 |
| micdud | gnome-flashback is the old style | 16:20 |
| rrq | thanks | 16:26 |
| micdud | i think it was king of like debian/devuan type of schism where lots of people were not happy with the new direction of gnome | 16:26 |
| rrq | yeah I suppose it's not always that "new" is "better" :) | 16:27 |
| rrq | though maybe the new style suits me better, assuming it provides that end-user empowerment that the "old style" was lacking in | 16:31 |
| micdud | new style feels like it belongs more on a phone or a notepad which is why i was trying to get it to work in touch only mode | 16:32 |
| rrq | if the server is run by non-root user there might be access issues to the input event streams; needs right group or some "seat" facilitation, e.g. libelogind or seatd I think | 16:36 |
| rrq | well, also assuming that Xwayland is basically Xorg with different T-shirt | 16:37 |
| micdud | mouse/keyboard work fine so does touchscreen in most apps (right now issue is i get no logging or any debug output for wayland at all in daedalus) | 16:38 |
| rrq | nothing in .local/share/xorg/ ? ... maybe check the environment of the running server | 16:40 |
| rrq | or command line parameters | 16:40 |
| rrq | you need xserver-xorg-input-synaptics to handle touchpad ? | 16:45 |
| micdud | actually i am narrowing it down to any app that does not actually support native wayland and needs to run trough xwayland(x11 layer) | 16:50 |
| rrq | right; a cursory check says that task-gnome-desktop doesn't install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics ... you've added that? | 16:55 |
| rrq | hmm so native wayland apps accesses input by themselves? or there is another server process involved? | 16:57 |
| micdud | xorg stuff should not be involved with wayland / wayland has compatabality layer xwayland for older x11 apps | 16:59 |
| micdud | but nothing from xorg should be needed as i understand it / wayland completley replaces xorg | 17:00 |
| rrq | right.. but reading the keyboard events would be through something? or the user has read access to /dev/input/event0 ? | 17:00 |
| rrq | according to doc's "wayland" is strictly speaking only the protocol between client and server | 17:01 |
| micdud | do not know how wayland handles that , first time trying it / but have not seen anything that would make me suspect that ( just cannot launch firefox/chromium/libreoffice/xeyes etc...) | 17:02 |
| micdud | on the other hand everything else works just fine | 17:03 |
| micdud | and i am used to seing some kind of debug output if launching apps from a shell/ but nothing in this case :) and no logs | 17:03 |
| rrq | I need to install and learn a bit; I agree that logs should be somewhere.. what is the Xwayland command line arguments? | 17:08 |
| rrq | perhaps the log ins under /run/user/$id/ somewhere? | 17:09 |
| micdud | ps:xwayland is the compatability server/api for x11 apps. apparently wayland itself is launched/built-in-to gnome-shell | 17:09 |
| rrq | raises more questions than answers for me, but I should probably explore it by myself... | 17:16 |
| rrq | so "pgrep -a Xwaylan" would give you pid and command line for Xwayland, | 17:18 |
| rrq | and "xargs -0 -n1 echo < /proc/$pid/environ" give s the envornment for pid $pid | 17:18 |
| rrq | now I'm off. good luck. | 17:24 |
| buZz | people actually use wayland unironically? gee | 18:11 |
| smolcat | haha | 18:23 |
| micdud | i was trying test for (touchscreen with gnome and gestures type functionality) seems like the only recommended combo that would do that | 18:27 |
| micdud | and just when you think xorg is bulletproof it give me a drm training error after disconnecting a monitor and plugging it back in :) | 18:30 |
| APic | Hi | 20:14 |
| APic | After upgrading to current unstable, my X no longer finds the Touchpad | 20:14 |
| APic | The Xorg.0.log says: No input driver specified, ignoring this device. | 20:15 |
| APic | Also, GPM in the VT seems very b0rk ;) | 20:15 |
| APic | This device may have been added with another device file. | 20:16 |
| APic | Somehow udev b0rked? | 20:16 |
| debdog | APic: correct, udev. gimme a minute to find some info.... | 20:21 |
| * APic accidentally my Screen B-( | 20:21 | |
| APic | debdog: Thanks! | 20:21 |
| APic | In the openbox, i have my CapsLock bound on Shift-CapsLock | 20:21 |
| APic | So i cannot accidentally Ctrl-A D ;) | 20:21 |
| APic | But good that i still have the VT anyhow B-) | 20:22 |
| debdog | https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=769 | 20:22 |
| debdog | https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=769#12 | 20:24 |
| APic | Thanks | 20:24 |
| debdog | hth | 20:25 |
| APic | debdog: How do i apply /etc/apt/preferences.d/* please? | 20:31 |
| APic | When i try: apt install libgudev-1.0-0=237-2 i get: E: Version '237-2' for 'libgudev-1.0-0' was not found | 20:33 |
| debdog | sorry. APic, I am a stable guy, never used pinning and such | 20:34 |
| APic | Ok | 20:34 |
| APic | I will try leeching the Package from the FTP^WHTTP ;) | 20:35 |
| * APic can only find libgudev-1.0-0_238-2_amd64.deb at the Moment B-( | 21:24 | |
| fsmithred | APic, last I heard you need to pin the daedalus version of that package. | 21:29 |
| fsmithred | Maybe that's why you can't find it. | 21:29 |
| APic | ktnx | 21:29 |
| APic | Phew, got the .deb | 21:32 |
| APic | Thanks a Bunch! | 21:32 |
| sfox | i'm still having the issue where i can't install the latest kernel patchlevel without zfs modules breaking | 22:14 |
| * APic still gets ,,No input driver specified, ignoring this device.'' | 22:16 | |
| APic | Time to travel home B-) | 22:16 |
| APic | cul8r | 22:17 |
| * APic guesses i will have to do some Patchworks myself to get Xorg running without the evil systemd one of the next Work-Days | 23:26 | |
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