| n4dir | using fluxbox the "exit" to exit fluxbox back to TTY doesn't work. If i use xfce and logout it does work. Any idea? | 03:33 |
|---|---|---|
| n4dir | aha. Using another, just created user, it does work. So not a package missing, but something wrong in the .fluxbox config directory | 03:45 |
| n4dir | i will get that sorted. Sorry for asking to quick | 03:45 |
| rrq | look out for logind making root own /dev/ttyN upon exiting from Xorg | 04:56 |
| rwp | clemens3, Yes. xemacs was mostly absorbed back into the emacs mainstream. IIRC it was mostly about the GUI side of things. | 05:03 |
| rwp | n4dir, What happens if instead of exiting fluxbox you kill fluxbox by process id? If that works then it means fluxbox is not actually exiting. | 05:03 |
| n4dir | that works. | 05:04 |
| n4dir | i deleted the .fluxbox folder, i copied the keyboard shortcuts folder in the newly created .fluxbox folder, and it works again | 05:04 |
| rwp | I can't count the number of times that processes not actually exiting have been the problem! | 05:16 |
| comborico1611 | apt update gives error lgn:1 cdrom err:2 cdrom ¨please use apt-cdrom to make this CD-ROM recognized by APT. Please advise. | 05:20 |
| golinux | Comment it out in you sources.list? | 05:21 |
| rwp | comborico1611, If this is a fresh installation then the fresh install always leaves the cdrom configured. Unfortunately. Look in /etc/apt/sources.list and remove that entry. | 05:24 |
| rwp | That's always one of the first things I do with a new installation, fix up the /etc/apt/sources.list file. | 05:24 |
| comborico1611 | Much appreciated! My first time using Xde whatever desktop environment. I think I'm going to really like it. | 05:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | cool comborico1611 , welcome | 05:26 |
| comborico1611 | It's unfortunate that Devuan doesn´t come shipped with an IRC client. | 05:26 |
| rwp | No. It's a good thing. That way you can install the one you want. Not the one someone else wants. | 05:27 |
| brocashelm | refracta comes with hexchat IIRC | 05:28 |
| n4dir | probably with irssi too | 05:28 |
| AlexLikeRock | rwp, I disagree, because many do not even know how to install one, and do not know where to ask for help | 05:29 |
| brocashelm | plus, why constantly firefox as the default browser? considering mozilla's crimes against freedom | 05:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | It should be installed by default on the desktop | 05:29 |
| rwp | But not knowing how to find and install software is going to be a severe hardship. It's necessary to know how to do those things. | 05:29 |
| AlexLikeRock | Many who come from Windows do not know what an IRC chat is | 05:30 |
| brocashelm | not true | 05:31 |
| brocashelm | especially if you've been on the web since the early 2000s | 05:31 |
| n4dir | all distributions: you go to the website where you downloaded the iso, there is usually a list of possible help | 05:31 |
| n4dir | mailing lists, IRC, forums, so on | 05:31 |
| rwp | Most people I know in real life do not know anything about IRC and would be lost. | 05:31 |
| comborico1611 | True, but moving here to the Philippines has taught me that having a distro with complete toolset is the way to go because of slow internet. | 05:31 |
| brocashelm | linux just wasn't that good back then | 05:31 |
| n4dir | some environments probably include an IRC client, but it isn't set up | 05:32 |
| brocashelm | it's also not just irc, but also xmpp (which still exists) | 05:32 |
| n4dir | can't say i think the idea is bad, but debian and hence devuan is the way it is. | 05:33 |
| AlexLikeRock | well , devuan and debian , need include help at desktop | 05:33 |
| brocashelm | debian is traditionally very unappealing when you're installing it for the first time, so devuan follows it a bit closely | 05:33 |
| brocashelm | that's why i just clone my partitions and modify the new ones however i wish | 05:34 |
| AlexLikeRock | It's not a big change, if we include the IRC chat on the desktop, for God's sake | 05:35 |
| rrq | go for it | 05:35 |
| comborico1611 | I have never heard of xmpp! | 05:35 |
| brocashelm | i agree that it would be a good thing to include on live isos | 05:35 |
| rrq | put in the effort into making that happen | 05:36 |
| n4dir | i once tried to setup hexchat on a live iso, when not at home, and it sure was a pain | 05:36 |
| brocashelm | but there are user-friendly debian derivatives like mx you could also just use | 05:36 |
| comborico1611 | I just think we need a mainstream systemd-less distro. And to be mainstream means dumbing it down to those who don´t know how to install software on their system. | 05:36 |
| brocashelm | you can make it happen in just two steps | 05:36 |
| brocashelm | apt install hexchat | 05:36 |
| brocashelm | then add a launcher to the desktop | 05:36 |
| n4dir | still you have to configure it, and last time i checked libera or how it is called isn't even in the list | 05:37 |
| brocashelm | then that's three steps. again, not a matter of effort but it comes down to whether or not the devs want to actually add it in | 05:37 |
| AlexLikeRock | brocashelm, , its not for me, it for a newvies | 05:37 |
| brocashelm | alexlikerock: i meant "you" as in people in general (wanting easier distros) | 05:38 |
| AlexLikeRock | newvies * | 05:38 |
| brocashelm | ...newbies | 05:38 |
| djph | devuan is a "newbie" distro? | 05:39 |
| brocashelm | but for a devuan base, refracta feels a bit more welcoming | 05:39 |
| AlexLikeRock | newbies users | 05:39 |
| djph | yes, it's not targeted at them... so ... | 05:40 |
| AlexLikeRock | must be the target | 05:40 |
| djph | what? | 05:40 |
| brocashelm | you could also browse from the derivatives on this list: https://www.devuan.org/os/devuan-distros | 05:40 |
| comborico1611 | Hmm, never heard of Refracta. | 05:40 |
| brocashelm | comborico1611: refracta is maintained by one of devuan's devs, fsmithred - https://refracta.org | 05:41 |
| AlexLikeRock | keep pulling new users from the hell of using win$hit | 05:41 |
| n4dir | comborico1611: blasphemy, i say | 05:41 |
| brocashelm | it offers a more minimal xfce desktop, uses alsa instead of pulseaudio, no metapackages, custom magic sysrq keys, a tor launcher button, firemenu (gui for firejail, for sandboxing your programs), etc. | 05:42 |
| brocashelm | i converted a couple of linux friends over to devuan because of refracta | 05:42 |
| n4dir | also most apps you would assume for a home computer, and also a lot of commandline tools | 05:42 |
| n4dir | and best of all: refractasnapshot :-) | 05:42 |
| brocashelm | refracta is kind of like to devuan what salix is to slackware :) | 05:43 |
| djph | AlexLikeRock: there are already newbie-oriented distros ... why should devuan step on their toes? | 05:43 |
| comborico1611 | Oh yes, that sounds down my philosophical alley | 05:44 |
| brocashelm | yeah, it's a quality distro IMO | 05:44 |
| n4dir | comborico1611: refractasnapshot can really be fun, kinda create your own installable live-distro, but it is also in the devuan repos, i think | 05:45 |
| AlexLikeRock | djph, I should learn from others and be friendly. | 05:45 |
| brocashelm | n4dir: yes, it is | 05:45 |
| n4dir | i first thought you meant: yes it is fun. But you confirmed it is in the repos. Thanks | 05:46 |
| brocashelm | :) | 05:46 |
| comborico1611 | djph: I would say because there needs to be a highly successful (in terms of number of users, aka newbie system) systemd-less OS. Debian based is best bet. Devuan is the biggest player. | 05:46 |
| AlexLikeRock | djph, Just like Ubuntu, I taught Debia to be friendly in the installer | 05:47 |
| comborico1611 | dinner time (that is lunch time to you non-southerners) | 05:47 |
| brocashelm | i think linux mint upped the ante | 05:48 |
| n4dir | "upped the ante" ? | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | ahahah | 05:48 |
| brocashelm | yes | 05:48 |
| n4dir | no, i don't know that term | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | brocashelm, hablas espanol? | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | me too | 05:48 |
| AlexLikeRock | i dont know that | 05:49 |
| brocashelm | i just meant that mint made linux more user-friendly by and far | 05:50 |
| brocashelm | whereas ubuntu quickly went downhill | 05:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | yes | 05:50 |
| AlexLikeRock | ubunto fall | 05:50 |
| brocashelm | alexlikerock: ...poquito? | 05:50 |
| comborico1611 | brocashelm: how did they up the ante? | 05:50 |
| n4dir | antix does that too, and for both i'd say: they do it well, but then they stand in your way if you want things in a different way | 05:50 |
| n4dir | it isn't that hard, otoh, to make debian/devuan the way you want it | 05:51 |
| brocashelm | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/up%20the%20ante | 05:51 |
| brocashelm | >3: to set a higher standard or goal—often + on | 05:51 |
| n4dir | ah | 05:51 |
| djph | comborico1611: my point though is that "Debian" isn't really positioned as "newbie friendly" ... so why should devuan target that segment (not that there "shouldn't" be an option, mind you) | 05:51 |
| comborico1611 | brocashelm: I disagree. Ubuntu paved the way. I remember being in University of Texas in 2008 and seeing someone's laptop boot up Ubuntu. It was very exciting. | 05:51 |
| brocashelm | they did, back then, but mint also happened to exist around that time and took over when canonical got too careless with its users | 05:52 |
| djph | ... mine booted RH in 2008 :| | 05:52 |
| brocashelm | fact: some of mint's tools are available in debian | 05:52 |
| brocashelm | like mintstick | 05:52 |
| n4dir | refractainstaller has it's origins in a Mint live installer. On a chat note | 05:53 |
| rrq | "devuan" doesn;t become a "distribution" until there is a group of people interested in and putting in the effort to making it so. | 05:53 |
| brocashelm | plus, the cinnamon desktop environment, which is exclusively a mint product | 05:53 |
| rrq | "interested in" is a good start, "putting in the effort" is also necessary | 05:54 |
| brocashelm | n4dir: interesting, i didn't know that | 05:54 |
| n4dir | seems also you can very easily install spotify, netflix and what not | 05:54 |
| n4dir | seems was wrong. you can | 05:54 |
| djph | rrq: wait, "devuan" isn't a distro? | 05:55 |
| n4dir | but i wanted to undo things in Mint, and that sure was a pain. | 05:55 |
| rrq | nope. it's a sesyemd-free overlay of the debian repository. | 05:55 |
| rrq | (or how it's spelled) | 05:55 |
| n4dir | you could say that for very many distros out there | 05:56 |
| brocashelm | most "distros" shouldn't even technically exist; they're the same thing sans for like <1% of the "change" | 05:56 |
| rrq | there is no group of people putting in effort to make and implement distrobution choices | 05:56 |
| rrq | (well, fsmithred works hard on the live ISO) | 05:57 |
| brocashelm | all the *buntus are just debian with a different DE | 05:57 |
| comborico1611 | brocashelm: But you can see the power of implementation of user experience where the Buntus now have the overwelming share of Linux user base. | 06:00 |
| rrq | each one of those has their group of people making choices about lokks and content off their distribution defaults, and then implementing them into an installable | 06:00 |
| n4dir | debian has those decisions too, if you like them or not is a different matter | 06:01 |
| comborico1611 | And a huge slice of potential indepent freedom-loving users are coddled into complicity of just using the OS because it works well. | 06:01 |
| rrq | https://www.devuan.org/os/devuan-distros is a list of devuan based distributions | 06:04 |
| brocashelm | speaking of which, peppermint does offer their own devuan base, and they do target newbies to linux | 06:09 |
| comborico1611 | so many distros... death by a thousand cuts. | 06:10 |
| brocashelm | distrohopping is a curse... the best distro is the one that ends it | 06:10 |
| rrq | yeah, when looking for something you usually find it in the last place you look :) | 06:11 |
| comborico1611 | but the good news is that word is spreading about systemd. I just learned about it a few months ago. | 06:13 |
| rrq | welcome. | 06:14 |
| comborico1611 | hopefully it is a race to establish a leader of the systemd-less os's | 06:14 |
| rrq | note that there is a #devuan-offtopic channel for general discussions while we try to keep this channel fro more direct support issues | 06:16 |
| AlexLikeRock | https://crow-translate.github.io/#linux | 06:25 |
| AlexLikeRock | good translate | 06:25 |
| joachin | hello there | 07:02 |
| clemens3 | back to irc client, you ask 100 people on the street what irc is, and zero can answer it. but 70% know what whatsapp is (90% wechat in china) | 12:05 |
| rrq | epistemological musing fit quite well on #devuan-offtopic | 12:08 |
| Wonka | there seems to only be libvirt0 9.6.0-1devuan1 for over a week now, while python3-libvirt 9.8.0-1 depends on libvirt0 >= 9.7.0 - something got stuck? | 13:00 |
| ham5urg | I had elogind configured to hibernate only (laptop). I use testing and after the last upgrade (IIRC) the /etc/elogind/logind.conf got split up into /etc/elogind/logind.conf and /etc/elogind/sleep.conf. | 14:37 |
| ham5urg | After that GNOME does not hibernate any more (just suspend). | 14:37 |
| ham5urg | I reconfigured sleep.conf to the same values I had before the upgrade but still GNOME does not hibernate. | 14:38 |
| ham5urg | What else can be done? Does the new GNOME ignore elogind configurations? | 14:39 |
| al1r4d | clemens3, hahahahhahaha.. Irc is old technology | 14:54 |
| djph | clemens3: whatsap? is that the phone irc client? | 14:55 |
| al1r4d | djph, are you really dont know about whatsapp? | 14:55 |
| * onefang wonders if whatsapp has a #devuan-offtopic ta take that discussion to? | 14:56 | |
| al1r4d | Yeah | 14:57 |
| al1r4d | We should moving | 14:57 |
| ham5urg | I tried 'echo disk | tee /sys/power/state' and the laptop suspends. I tried 'pm-hibernate' and it hibernates. | 15:19 |
| ham5urg | Is this expected behaviour? | 15:19 |
| ham5urg | I thought of 'echo disk | tee /sys/power/state' that it would hibernate the laptop. | 15:20 |
| clemens3 | djph: whatspp - meta - facepalm | 15:56 |
| clemens3 | when my wife sees my weechat on the tty with 16 color scheme, she things i'm a dinosaurier or neanderthal | 15:58 |
| clemens3 | i don't know she knows about punchcards, floppies or LPs | 15:58 |
| clemens3 | but she knows dos, or has heard about it | 15:59 |
| phogg | -> #devuan-offtopic | 16:08 |
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