| JethroTull | sure. whenever i go to install devuan it fails to ask me certain questions like what DE to use, what my hostname is, what region I live in etc. also the partitioner tries to partition the usb drive installer along with the hard drive | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| rrq | hmm the very first installer dialog should ask about region | 00:02 |
| rrq | .. no; it's "configure keyboard" by selecting country | 00:04 |
| rrq | .. and a few dialogs later it queries about time zone if the country selection is ambiguous in that | 00:05 |
| rrq | those are before partitioning | 00:05 |
| rrq | the, the partitioner presents all attached drives as it asks which one(s) you want to format and install to | 00:06 |
| rrq | note that the installer itself is an initrd that has been unpacked into a RAM filestructure | 00:07 |
| rrq | and technically (though against advice) it's possible to install onto the drive that the installation media resided on | 00:09 |
| rrq | the selection of DE would be later on in the installation | 00:10 |
| rrq | the "normal" installer flow of dialogs is shown at https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/install-devuan | 00:11 |
| JethroTull | well, im missing steps 8, 13-17, 20 and 21 according to the installer manual on the devuan website | 00:11 |
| JethroTull | and it doesnt seem to matter what installer or what version I use | 00:11 |
| JethroTull | I just wiped the partitions and created a single 30GB blank. going to try to install again using entire disk. everything should be wiped af | 00:12 |
| rrq | step 8 is skipped if the country selection in step 2 is unambiguous as to timezone | 00:13 |
| JethroTull | jokes on you it doesnt ask me about timezone either | 00:13 |
| rrq | right; that's step 8 | 00:13 |
| JethroTull | country i select is canada | 00:14 |
| JethroTull | but i recall other installers ask about timezone seperately | 00:14 |
| rrq | right; may I first confirm that step 1 is that image shown at the URL I dropped above? | 00:16 |
| rrq | and that you select installation method 1 | 00:17 |
| JethroTull | ahh add step 3 and 4 to that mix | 00:17 |
| JethroTull | and yes | 00:17 |
| blockhead | might i recommend installing in an emulator (qemu, virtualbox) a few times for practice? makes for a calmer experience when finally performing the real install | 00:18 |
| JethroTull | its no biggie i have a box dedicated to messing around with. im sure its a user error I just wish I knew what the hell im doing wrong | 00:18 |
| JethroTull | clearly this is a new problem otherwise you guys would have heard about this from more than just me | 00:19 |
| blockhead | ah, understood | 00:19 |
| fsmithred | did you check the sha256sum of the downloaded file to make sure it's all there? | 00:19 |
| JethroTull | indeed I did once I started to get frustrated heh | 00:20 |
| JethroTull | ok blanked out the drive partitions and trying one last time | 00:20 |
| JethroTull | waitasec | 00:22 |
| JethroTull | did you say install itself is an actual option? I was using automated install | 00:23 |
| JethroTull | a;ojusfda | 00:23 |
| JethroTull | hang on lemme reboot and try that | 00:23 |
| fsmithred | yes, it's the first one on the list | 00:23 |
| fsmithred | don't press any arrow buttons at the boot menu, just press ENTER | 00:23 |
| JethroTull | why is it not indented, why is expert 2 and rookie mode 4 not intuitive lol | 00:23 |
| JethroTull | just watch this be the problem | 00:24 |
| rrq | one path to help could be to select that "Help" option first | 00:27 |
| JethroTull | nah not when youre looking for help like I am | 00:28 |
| rrq | :) | 00:28 |
| plasma41 | Automated != rookie | 00:29 |
| JethroTull | well even if this does work automated is broken if the way it installs for me is the way intended | 00:30 |
| JethroTull | should just remove it from the list and maybe format it properly while youre there :) | 00:30 |
| plasma41 | IIUC, Automated is the Preseed method: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed | 00:31 |
| Xenguy | rwp, Not sure but re: live install documentation, there is this: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/daedalus/live-gui | 00:31 |
| JethroTull | theres clearly an error - either there shouldnt be a 1 in front of "install" in the first menu OR it should be aligned properly. I assumed the latter when it was the former | 00:32 |
| Xenguy | I can tell you a lot of blood/sweat/tears goes into those screenshots ; -) | 00:32 |
| JethroTull | manually created in MSPaint I see | 00:33 |
| JethroTull | well done | 00:33 |
| JethroTull | also what does IIUC mean? | 00:33 |
| Xenguy | MSPaint? Surely you jest : -) | 00:34 |
| Xenguy | If I Understand Correctly | 00:34 |
| JethroTull | I do and stop calling me shirley | 00:34 |
| JethroTull | ahh thanks | 00:34 |
| rrq | mm perhaps "Atomated install" should be labelled "Preseed based install", to be slightly more explicit about it... still, that might not scare off a rookie | 00:37 |
| plasma41 | or just "Preseed install" | 00:38 |
| JethroTull | well it seems actually broken, like not asking you for your timezone and having apt-get give you a (100) error you can only fix by messing with dpkg | 00:38 |
| rrq | did you actually have a preseed file set up? | 00:39 |
| JethroTull | no | 00:39 |
| JethroTull | i skipped past that step | 00:39 |
| rrq | yeah, that was a rookie step ;) | 00:40 |
| JethroTull | if its automated and therefore for rookies it seems odd to ask for a preseed file | 00:40 |
| rrq | it's "automated and therefore not for rookies" | 00:42 |
| JethroTull | ya and thats where I really failed. I thought automated meant it would do it for me hence the term | 00:43 |
| rrq | no worries. your experience will help us to improve. | 00:43 |
| JethroTull | hmm so reinstall asked me for where my region was etc (this is after partition wiping the hard drive and using option 1 instead of 4) but it still did not ask me what DE I should use | 00:43 |
| rrq | that would be the "task-select" very late in the process | 00:44 |
| rrq | it wil first install "the base system" | 00:45 |
| JethroTull | so im rebooting into the installed OS now... | 00:45 |
| joerg | +1 for renaming this menu entry, "automated install" would trick a 90% of users | 00:46 |
| rrq | JethroTull: so you never arrived at dislaog 17 ? | 00:47 |
| plasma41 | Is it called "Automated install" in Debian's ISOs? | 00:47 |
| rrq | dialog 17 | 00:47 |
| n4dir | plasma41: just checked, in Advanced Options there is "automated install" | 00:49 |
| JethroTull | ya it installed the system np - it just wouldnt ask me basically anything | 00:49 |
| rwp | Xenguy, How have I missed knowing about that documentation all of this time? Thank you! | 00:49 |
| JethroTull | man out of the fire into the other fire. my login was a white screen with a greay stock sihlouette. no name just a passowrd box. i clicked the thingy on the right of it and now i have a blank screen with a flashing cursor on top left | 00:52 |
| rrq | JethroTull: that sounds like it didn't have network acess.. but you would still get a dialog 17 although with only the last few options | 00:52 |
| rrq | ? | 00:53 |
| JethroTull | ok trying one more time installing option one | 00:53 |
| JethroTull | thank you all for your help in this | 00:53 |
| rrq | perhaps you could step through that install guide and give a shout as soon as it differs from your process | 00:54 |
| Xenguy | rwp, np | 00:54 |
| JethroTull | its messed because before this I was playing around with debian no problems | 00:55 |
| JethroTull | once again it wants to partition the usb and now its installing base. does not matter if I choose ignore or cancel to the error the partitioner gives me | 00:57 |
| rwp | JethroTull, How many disks are in the system upon which you are installing? Just one plus the USB installer? Or are there more? | 00:58 |
| JethroTull | just the one disk. 128GB | 00:59 |
| JethroTull | the computer is a mid range bee link mini computer that I bought specifically for this purpose - to distro hop and find a replacement for the mint im running right now | 01:00 |
| rwp | Sounds good. Just checking. That you say it wants to partition the installer confuses me. I will always see the installer device listed but it never "wants" to partition it. | 01:00 |
| JethroTull | it shows that it wants to do both a and b where sdb is my 8GB usb drive. and again either option just moves on and the hard drive itself seems to partition ok | 01:00 |
| JethroTull | its weird becuase the only way to install where I dont get this problem is the desktop-live installer. that one doesnt try to mess with the usb drive | 01:01 |
| rwp | I am going to spin up a VM and walk through that section to refresh my mind on it. | 01:02 |
| rrq | the dialog is "or" not "and" | 01:02 |
| JethroTull | yay it asked me what DE to use this time | 01:03 |
| n4dir | choose wisely :-) | 01:03 |
| JethroTull | rwp when you do try the automated install without a script :) | 01:03 |
| rwp | Strongly suggest NOT choosing GNOME Flashback or whatever. XFCE is the most stable. MATE if you want GNOME. | 01:04 |
| JethroTull | i dont like xfce and was thinking KDE | 01:04 |
| rwp | On my LAN an automated install would actually be a fully automated install. :-) | 01:04 |
| JethroTull | well thats not real world now is it :P | 01:05 |
| rwp | It is in my real world. But I am walking through the dialog pages one by one manually. | 01:05 |
| rrq | I've heard the KDE choice is "wayland only" so quite possibly another "not a rookie" choice | 01:05 |
| rwp | When I do it here I only see the one disk available to partition and it does not try to offer the USB device for partitioning. | 01:06 |
| n4dir | rrq: i just installed KDE, and while it comes with wayland, you can also choose X | 01:06 |
| rwp | FTR I am using the devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_amd64_netinstall.iso install image. | 01:06 |
| n4dir | well, installed it, then deleted it again | 01:06 |
| JethroTull | well by real world I mean some idiot like myself who doesnt have the files and resources already on his LAN and is flying in dumb. for instance try to find the netinstaller from devuan.org. its a maze | 01:06 |
| rrq | I'm sure. but is that a rookie respons to grief? :) | 01:07 |
| rrq | n4dir: ^ | 01:07 |
| n4dir | yeah, right, at the short glance i ran in no problems with Wayland (besides not being able to setxkbmap de) | 01:07 |
| n4dir | but a short glance is only that | 01:08 |
| rwp | I must retract something. My VM boot mounted the install image as a cdrom. Which would not be offered for partitioning because it's a cdrom. I'll redo it as a USB on a bare metal boot on another system. | 01:08 |
| rrq | n4dir: right. it might be all fine. but as I've lost my 3-foot pole I haven't yet tried a KDE experience (yet?) | 01:09 |
| n4dir | rrq: i didn't look at it in like 10 years. I wanted to check how it looks these days. It is ok, depending what you want | 01:10 |
| rwp | I haven't used KDE in years. It's just gotten too weird for me. It now has hidden menus and hot spots to bring them up and other fluff and glitter. | 01:10 |
| n4dir | they removed the cube (the compiz thingy). That made me uninstall it again. :-) | 01:11 |
| brocashelm | i know debian kde maintenance slowed down last year or so because the maintainer left them for arch after being put down for the last time | 01:11 |
| brocashelm | there were/are some efforts from a small group of volunteers keeping that going, though | 01:11 |
| JethroTull | well ive only been using linux for about a year now and entirely with mint. I figure I know enough to move on so I did my research and I like your stance on the systemd issue as I understand it so here I am tearing my hair out heh | 01:12 |
| JethroTull | figured KDE would be good to move onto | 01:12 |
| brocashelm | if you like old kde (3.5 or before), just use trinity (tde) | 01:12 |
| n4dir | if i understood correct, JethroTull is coming from Mint, and if he used cinnamoon there, it might be a choice not too bad. You could always change that later | 01:12 |
| brocashelm | if cinnamon, mate or xfce would be much closer to the experience | 01:12 |
| brocashelm | if not xfce or mate, then maybe lxde for gtk or lxqt for qt | 01:13 |
| JethroTull | xfce is the default for devuan yes? didnt care for it but to be fair I never really gave it a chance | 01:13 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: well, if you want to give it a try, why not? That really is your choice | 01:14 |
| brocashelm | it's default in the *live* isos | 01:14 |
| brocashelm | you can use the netinstall isos and choose your own desktop environment | 01:14 |
| brocashelm | they install with tasksel | 01:14 |
| JethroTull | yeah thats part of the plan actually - to take a tour as it were with the desktop environments before settling on one | 01:15 |
| JethroTull | tasksel seems to make it easy but ive yet to make it work | 01:16 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: what is the actual problem? | 01:17 |
| systemdlete | rwp: Please read my posts after you made yours mistakenly to the other user. I explain why this was NOT a 3rd party repo issue, it was pure PEBCAK, with me creating a confusing scenario for apt. | 01:17 |
| systemdlete | But, out of curiosity, what sort of problem do you actually have with 3rd party repos? I have not had many myself. | 01:18 |
| JethroTull | im curious to see how rwp fares in automatic mode without a script | 01:22 |
| JethroTull | that installer shouldnt let you get past not having a script methinks | 01:23 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: it let's me get past that, but i have to answer questions after that | 01:25 |
| n4dir | root password, username, so forth | 01:25 |
| n4dir | so i end in a usual installation, it seems | 01:25 |
| JethroTull | right but not desktop environment or region? | 01:26 |
| n4dir | i hit enter so fast, i am not too sure if i was asked about keyboard and regions, i think so | 01:26 |
| JethroTull | keep going. also stupid question. my install seems to have worked ok but my login is a white screen and a password prompt. no name. I can log in but I cant switch to root because I cant select the name | 01:26 |
| n4dir | lets wait if DE will be asked for | 01:26 |
| JethroTull | grey circle with dark grey stock human shadow and a password prompt on white background. thats it. | 01:27 |
| JethroTull | logout screen looks fine though | 01:27 |
| rwp | systemdlete Okay! :-) | 01:28 |
| rwp | JethroTull, I wasn't going to try automatic mode. That would be silly! | 01:28 |
| rwp | I was going to boot a USB install and see what it said at the partition screen. | 01:28 |
| JethroTull | well color me silly then because that was primarily my install problem, thinking that automatic meant automatic when really it meant scripted | 01:29 |
| JethroTull | also I dont know how to switch to root in kde apperantly | 01:29 |
| n4dir | if it helps you: i think i would assume the same if i read it | 01:29 |
| n4dir | but as said: i hardly read, i just use the enter key | 01:30 |
| JethroTull | buy one of those drinking birds and half your job is done :) | 01:31 |
| JethroTull | seriously tho how do you switch to root in kde? when I log out I get the already described white screen | 01:31 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: you said you got some kind of a "mini"PC? | 01:31 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: you don't log in as root. | 01:32 |
| JethroTull | ya its a beelink I picked up from amazon ive been using to distrohop for the past few months | 01:32 |
| JethroTull | dont I need to log in as root so I can add my user to the sudoers file? | 01:32 |
| n4dir | you start a usual user session, and as that user you use root rights either with "su" or with "sudo" or with some other magic stuff | 01:33 |
| JethroTull | cant do that if im not a memeber of the sudoers file | 01:33 |
| n4dir | you'd open a terminal-emulator, become root by typing "su -", the run "visudo" | 01:33 |
| n4dir | or you use "ctrl + F2" to switch to a TTY, login as root, then run visudo | 01:34 |
| n4dir | perhaps need to install sudo first | 01:34 |
| JethroTull | neat I didnt know about su - being a straight switch to root | 01:34 |
| JethroTull | i knew about su | 01:34 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: this Automated install where i just omited the URL to "scripts" seems to install a DE, as it takes forever, and i just saw gimp being installed | 01:35 |
| n4dir | that is what your actual installation is? The automated install option? | 01:35 |
| n4dir | i saw thunar, looks like xfce is getting installed | 01:36 |
| JethroTull | it does install a DE, but its forces the xfce. once its installed you will find apt is broken, you have no outside repos so you have to set that up and so on. makes sense if you have a script. makes you think its broken if you believed the process was automated. | 01:36 |
| n4dir | And that is your actual installation? | 01:36 |
| n4dir | or did you redo already? | 01:36 |
| JethroTull | ive redone maybe a dozen times now | 01:36 |
| n4dir | with automated install option or by other means? | 01:37 |
| JethroTull | and since I shouldnt switch to root (and i understand why its just that i thought it was the only way to do this) i still would like to know how to switch to another user if i wanted to | 01:37 |
| JethroTull | ie i get to username prompt | 01:38 |
| n4dir | i am not sure which display-manager is used, if one is being used. There usuall is a shortcut or something like that | 01:38 |
| n4dir | the thing you see before you got a Desktop Environment, to log in, is the display-manager | 01:39 |
| JethroTull | is it also the thing you see when you log out? | 01:39 |
| n4dir | in a few seconds i can reboot. Perhaps i will see what you see | 01:39 |
| JethroTull | because that part works fine | 01:39 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: yes | 01:39 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: it rebooted, it uses the display-manager "slim", you can choose the username by just entering it | 01:40 |
| JethroTull | right. thats no longer my problem but log in anyway i wanna show you something | 01:41 |
| JethroTull | try to run tasksel as root and pick a new desktop | 01:41 |
| JethroTull | and dont use the usb as source | 01:41 |
| JethroTull | but since there is no script it makes sense those things might be missing. that was fixed with help in this channel to get me the right installer which does work | 01:42 |
| n4dir | you want to know if i got entries in /etc/apt/sources.list? I do have | 01:42 |
| JethroTull | except now i have this login issue where initial login as well as switching user gives me a screen where I cannot select a user so i cannot switch to root if I wanted to for instance | 01:43 |
| JethroTull | the only entry i had in my sources list was the USB but again that problem was solved | 01:43 |
| n4dir | You know which display-manager you are using? | 01:44 |
| JethroTull | how do I check? | 01:44 |
| n4dir | dpkg -l | grep slim | 01:44 |
| JethroTull | no output | 01:45 |
| n4dir | gotta say: i don't really know the names of the display-managers anymore | 01:45 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: then slim is not it | 01:45 |
| n4dir | try: dpkg -l | grep lxdm | 01:45 |
| n4dir | also for lightdm | 01:46 |
| n4dir | from a display-manager you can't choose root, at least not usually | 01:46 |
| JethroTull | nothing | 01:47 |
| rrq | I think lightdm is the default for xfce desktop in daedalus | 01:47 |
| rrq | try command: ps -hoppid $(pgrep Xorg) | 01:47 |
| rrq | or actually: ps $(ps -hoppid $(pgrep Xorg)) | 01:48 |
| JethroTull | sddm | 01:48 |
| JethroTull | its whatever the devuan installer chose for me | 01:49 |
| JethroTull | one would think its compatible | 01:49 |
| rrq | yes, "sddm" is ok | 01:49 |
| rwp | I just can't replicate the USB install at this instant. I need to repackage some bare metal in order to boot it. Because everything is in use at the moment. | 01:50 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: and which Desktop Environment is installed? | 01:51 |
| n4dir | to put it different: you could always install a different display-manager (though i admit, i still don't fully understand your problem) | 01:51 |
| JethroTull | im using tasksel to remove kde and put in mate just to see if it fixes the problem. the problem is when I select logout I get a default profile image with the username under it, followed by options for logging out with a nice background. when I log in I get a white screen with a grey circle and just a password prompt I can type in and thats it. nothing else no background nothing | 01:52 |
| n4dir | To get rid of a display-manager problem replcacing the Desktop Environment is a bit overdressed | 01:53 |
| n4dir | but your choice | 01:53 |
| JethroTull | i dont know how else to do it | 01:53 |
| JethroTull | still relatively new to all of this | 01:53 |
| n4dir | Wait. You got the login screen, you enter your username, and *after* that you get a white screen? | 01:54 |
| JethroTull | probably in over my head with this distro but having said that ive installed a ton others with zero issue | 01:54 |
| JethroTull | no. i dont get the option to put in my username. all I have is the white screen asking for a password. above it is a grey default profile image. its in the dead center of the screen | 01:54 |
| * blockhead wonders what would happen without a display manager? so console login then startx the later exit the wm? | 01:54 | |
| JethroTull | if I punch in the password for the user I can get in. i cant use the root password nor is there anywhere to click | 01:55 |
| n4dir | blockhead: yes | 01:55 |
| blockhead | that's so weird | 01:55 |
| JethroTull | if I wait a few minutes it switches to showing me the time, white letters with black border on white background. | 01:55 |
| JethroTull | i literally cannot be any user other than the one I set up | 01:56 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: again, root is not supposed to run a Desktop Environment | 01:56 |
| golinux | Did you create a user during the install? | 01:56 |
| golinux | Log in with your username | 01:56 |
| JethroTull | i had to create a user during install and the password for the user is the only one it will accept, which of course brings me into that user profile | 01:57 |
| JethroTull | I cannot choose, nor type in, a username | 01:57 |
| JethroTull | there is nowhere to do it | 01:57 |
| n4dir | if there is no other user of course you can't use a different one, no? | 01:58 |
| JethroTull | i should be able to log in as root if I wanted to | 01:58 |
| n4dir | And again: you are not | 01:58 |
| JethroTull | correct. im just the user account currently | 01:58 |
| JethroTull | debian does not have this issue which tells me i dont have a hardware problem | 01:59 |
| JethroTull | nor does any other distro or kde on those environments | 01:59 |
| n4dir | It was different in the past, now it is all a bit confusing. I think display-managers prevent root to login a X session, while using startx would work | 01:59 |
| n4dir | but i haven't done it in ages | 01:59 |
| JethroTull | isnt there a thing called wayland out now? | 01:59 |
| n4dir | yes, and KDE seems to use it per default. | 02:00 |
| JethroTull | is devuan wayland friendly? | 02:00 |
| nemo | JethroTull: might as well ask if debian in general or linux in general is "wayland friendly" | 02:01 |
| nemo | and that seems to be very much a mixed bag | 02:01 |
| n4dir | iirc at the very bottom of sddm there is a ver little option where you can choose which DE or WM to use, and if you want to use KDE with Wayland or X, Wayland being the default | 02:01 |
| nemo | personally I'm not a fan, but you know, whatev. to each their own | 02:01 |
| JethroTull | well debian doesnt have this problem when I install it on the same machine. I want to try devuan though but so far its lots of speedbumps | 02:01 |
| JethroTull | oh ya, and discover is offline and i dont know how to get it online | 02:02 |
| JethroTull | that was always a thing too | 02:02 |
| JethroTull | nothing but bad luck over here | 02:02 |
| nemo | discover? | 02:02 |
| n4dir | probably a kde thingy | 02:02 |
| nemo | n4dir: ah. like some document indexer? | 02:02 |
| JethroTull | thats what im starting to think | 02:02 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: Is there a reason you want specifically to log in to a graphical environment as root rather than logging in to a graphical environment as a standard user and just running root command in a terminal program using 'su' or 'sudo'? | 02:03 |
| nemo | like gnome tracker or whatever | 02:03 |
| nemo | plasma41: oh wow. that sounds like a terrible idea | 02:03 |
| plasma41 | Discover is the name of KDE's graphical package management frontend. | 02:04 |
| JethroTull | plasma41: no there isnt. but it is to illustrate the simple fact that I cant switch users at all. so if I wanted to make an account for my wife I cant | 02:04 |
| nemo | oh.. | 02:04 |
| nemo | JethroTull: huh? I've never had an issue setting up multiple users on a machine | 02:04 |
| JethroTull | setting up isnt the problem | 02:04 |
| JethroTull | its switching to any user thats the problem | 02:05 |
| JethroTull | I cannot | 02:05 |
| nemo | and logging in as separate ones using a graphical login tool | 02:05 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: if i open sddm, i have to enter username and password, so of course i could switch users. | 02:05 |
| JethroTull | im stuck as the first user i created during installation | 02:05 |
| n4dir | wait. i think i was wrong | 02:05 |
| nemo | n4dir: I think he means, while one graphical session is active, spawn a new one on another VT as another user. | 02:05 |
| nemo | n4dir: without logging out of the first one | 02:05 |
| nemo | n4dir: which is a feature some DEs offer in conjunction with the login manager | 02:05 |
| nemo | ... I think.. | 02:05 |
| nemo | anyway. it's nothing specific to devuan | 02:06 |
| nemo | I've done that a decade ago in gnome, but have had no reason to do it lately | 02:06 |
| JethroTull | no i mean that when I turn on the computer I get a white screen with an area I can type in with the word "password" in it. beside it is a button with an arrow that seems to act as the enter key. | 02:06 |
| nemo | JethroTull: oh... | 02:06 |
| JethroTull | there is NO area I can choose or type in a username | 02:06 |
| n4dir | nemo: oh | 02:06 |
| nemo | JethroTull: there's no arrow to hit back to switch to another user? | 02:06 |
| nemo | JethroTull: what login manager are you using? | 02:06 |
| JethroTull | nope. all I have is a white screen | 02:06 |
| nemo | weird | 02:06 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: I would guess your display manager is not showing you an edittable username field is because there's currently only one user account. If you add another user account using the adduser command, does the display manager change appearance? | 02:06 |
| nemo | white screen also odd. sounds like a graphics bug | 02:06 |
| nemo | JethroTull: I use slim personally | 02:07 |
| JethroTull | when I log out that screen is perfect, but the "switch users" button doesnt do anything | 02:07 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: if you add another user, sddm will show you both users on it's screen | 02:07 |
| JethroTull | ok so I sudo tasksel and removed KDE while enabling xfce just loading stuff now | 02:09 |
| systemdlete | *its, not it's (pronouns never have apostrophies, just a tip) | 02:09 |
| systemdlete | (it's not important, LOL!) | 02:09 |
| n4dir | now after i wrote it down you say it isn't important | 02:09 |
| systemdlete | Sorry, I shouldn't do that to people. It's kind of rude I admit. | 02:10 |
| JethroTull | ok it seemed to finish ok and the reboot is....(drumroll) still KDE and still broken login screen! | 02:10 |
| n4dir | ah, it is fine, systemdlete | 02:10 |
| systemdlete | I see the error all the time though | 02:10 |
| JethroTull | wtf | 02:10 |
| systemdlete | it's == it is | 02:10 |
| systemdlete | e.g., there is no her's | 02:10 |
| JethroTull | according to tasksel Xfce is indeed enabled and KDE is removed | 02:11 |
| systemdlete | Gotta love English spelling | 02:11 |
| n4dir | systemdlete: i even hear the correction all the time, but it is muscle memory. Or ignorance. | 02:11 |
| systemdlete | Nah | 02:11 |
| rrq | JethroTull: the "display manager" is a separate brick from "desktop envirnment" | 02:11 |
| JethroTull | I give up. Ive taken up too much of everyones time anyway. this is borked beyond hope for me | 02:11 |
| systemdlete | English has become a huge 50 car pile-up on the freeway at rush hour. | 02:12 |
| JethroTull | rrq i removed KDE but its still running after a reboot. | 02:12 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, maybe try purging KDE | 02:12 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: might be you simply need a rest. After a certain amount of time it gets more and more confusing. Let it sink | 02:12 |
| systemdlete | apt purge KDE | 02:12 |
| systemdlete | +1 for n4dir | 02:12 |
| JethroTull | lemme try that but whats the actual command? | 02:13 |
| systemdlete | ^^ | 02:13 |
| JethroTull | package not found | 02:13 |
| systemdlete | ? | 02:13 |
| JethroTull | so I guess its purged | 02:13 |
| n4dir | dpkg -l | grep kde | 02:13 |
| * systemdlete wonders how it can still be running after being removed followed by a reboot | 02:14 | |
| n4dir | usually after installed a metapackage, say like with tasksel, it isn't very easy to get rid of it again. At least to me | 02:14 |
| JethroTull | tons of files | 02:14 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, when you say "it" is still running. What is the "it"? | 02:14 |
| systemdlete | KDE? | 02:14 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: you could try a wildchard, something like "apt purge *kde" or "apt purge kde*" or both "apt purge *kde*" | 02:14 |
| systemdlete | ah, sorry. JethroTull n4dir is right. | 02:15 |
| JethroTull | by it i mean my desktop environment which is KDE. im confused by this because according to tasksel its not even selected in the list, so I presume at the very least it wont load | 02:15 |
| plasma41 | I'm guessing JethroTull just uninstalled task-kde-desktop, but didn't manually purge the packages that were installed with it. | 02:15 |
| systemdlete | You should try apt purge kde-* | 02:15 |
| rrq | task-kde-desktop install many packages with name format kde-* | 02:15 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: the tasksel tool sure *is* a bit confusing | 02:15 |
| n4dir | hence many avoid it, install their DE on their own, not during installation via tasksel | 02:16 |
| JethroTull | all I did was what I could do in tasksel. im aware that normally theres some option in the login screen to select your DE but i dont have that for the same reason I dont have a username selection option | 02:16 |
| systemdlete | If software is hard to write, then it should be hard to use. Or, apparently, there are some who think so... | 02:16 |
| n4dir | ha ha | 02:16 |
| rrq | yeah; "not ticked" doesn;t mean "uninstall", it menas "don't install" | 02:16 |
| systemdlete | n4dir, seriously, look at systemd. Case in point. | 02:16 |
| systemdlete | tasksel sounds almost as much fun as aptitude | 02:17 |
| systemdlete | (or git) | 02:17 |
| n4dir | i guess it has a point. tasksel. | 02:17 |
| systemdlete | oh yes. tasksel. I see that every time I install devuan. That's the one where I can't tell what the options will do. I found that ticking certain options did not do what I expected and I ended up having to redo it all after the install finsihed. | 02:19 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: the selection during "login", the display-manager, not all display-managers are the same | 02:19 |
| n4dir | and some are anthing but intuitive | 02:19 |
| JethroTull | agreed on that but i dont recall anywhere that I even get the option to choose which one to use. I assume although perhaps foolishly that the default one selected by the devuan team would suffice | 02:20 |
| systemdlete | "intuitive" in my experience seems to actually mean "do what this would do in the other 20 programs you already know" | 02:20 |
| n4dir | yup. It bugged me so much that i gave up on display-managers | 02:20 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, someone here (maybe gnarface but idr now) told me several years ago when I first started installing devuan that tasksel has not been seriously worked on in a very long time. | 02:21 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, what I tend to do these days is "just get past the install process" THEN go back and sort of "customize" the installed system. | 02:22 |
| systemdlete | And, JethroTull, pls believe me when I say that I would agree to the accusation that doing things that way is clumsy as hell. | 02:22 |
| systemdlete | But it does work. | 02:22 |
| JethroTull | agreed, but its the customize part I cant do. esp when it appears I cant even select my DE or change users | 02:22 |
| systemdlete | Lately, I've been using my own custom checklist script calling debootstrap | 02:23 |
| JethroTull | im installing debian now and going to use kde and try tasksel. see what happens | 02:23 |
| systemdlete | Lessee now. What do I do for desktops... Usually I just use xfce4 and let that be that. | 02:23 |
| systemdlete | Sometimes I use an alternate, but I find those have all kinds of post-surgery disabilities. | 02:24 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: i really wonder what the problem might be, what it exactly looks like for your, when you look at it. I installed sddm (?), and i had the option to choose between users, the one i added, and the option to choose DE/WM | 02:24 |
| n4dir | If you could post an image, it might help | 02:24 |
| n4dir | or it is me being dumb, and others understand more clear how it looks for you | 02:24 |
| JethroTull | well as I said im installed debian right now so that option is out the window. | 02:25 |
| gnarface | JethroTull: not sure exactly what i missed here, but nothing is set in stone at install time. if you want to change desktops we can help. | 02:25 |
| systemdlete | I've created some decent looking and somewhat productive desktop configs using just xfce | 02:25 |
| systemdlete | I miss lxde and mate and some of the others. | 02:25 |
| gnarface | JethroTull: i strongly doubt debian will have any material differences relevant to this task. | 02:25 |
| JethroTull | i think what im describing is so far off the keel that you guys arent grasping it. for instance im thinking you figure I have that blue login screen that first asks you for a username then a password, and tells you to man slim below it correct? | 02:25 |
| JethroTull | i had nothing even close to that | 02:25 |
| systemdlete | But after the devuan surgeons have completed removal of the cancerous parts of Debian, it seems that some of them just don't really work too well | 02:25 |
| JethroTull | ya im wondering if this is an example of the main crowd all doing more or less the same thing and therefore not finding any problems, then some guy like me who wants to switch to root using KDE shows up and all hell breaks loose | 02:26 |
| systemdlete | You see those other desktops hobbling around on crutches and canes, requiring all sorts of therapy and workarounds | 02:26 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: could you login as root using Mint? | 02:27 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, are you doing this on hardware or a VM? Not that it matters much, but maybe I can try to replicate your attempts in a VM here. | 02:27 |
| n4dir | or any other given distro? I don't think that works | 02:27 |
| gnarface | JethroTull: well, for future note, if you're picky about what you want installed it's usually easier to just not select anything at the tasksel phase of the install. you're not actually required to check any of those boxes at all. | 02:28 |
| JethroTull | you know i never tried? only reason it came up is because i read in a thread somewhere with debian you have to use root to edit the sudoers file and the example given was actually switching to root to do it so I just did it that way | 02:28 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, yes. That is what I said also, based on our convo from years ago. | 02:28 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: to edit the sudoers file you use "visudo". | 02:29 |
| systemdlete | (it was good advice, thanks again. Saved me a lot of headaches.) | 02:29 |
| JethroTull | you can log in as root in devuan using the login screen that works n4dir | 02:29 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: don't make me check if it works :-) | 02:29 |
| JethroTull | i did it many times trying to get the DE to go | 02:29 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, try taking all the defaults at install time, then after install completes, just install what you want. | 02:30 |
| systemdlete | (i.e., do NOT check or uncheck any boxes in tasksel) | 02:30 |
| n4dir | well, uncheck them, else you get the default DE | 02:31 |
| JethroTull | that level of instability shouldnt be the norm should it? | 02:31 |
| systemdlete | JethroTull, LOL | 02:31 |
| n4dir | well, it isn't the norm | 02:31 |
| systemdlete | We shouldn't need cancer surgery to remove the icky bits either. | 02:31 |
| JethroTull | well by that i mean the installer gives you the option. if you shouldnt take the option then dont give it to the user | 02:32 |
| n4dir | JethroTull: which DE did you use in Debian? | 02:32 |
| systemdlete | But it is the reality of today thanks to decisions made by a small, selfish group fo people about 15 years ago who planted an insidious bug in Linux which they thought was a harmless improvement | 02:32 |
| JethroTull | Gnome. I didnt stay with it very long though I started hopping with maybe 5 or 6 others before settling down on this one | 02:32 |
| JethroTull | didnt like it | 02:32 |
| JethroTull | im installing debian right now though with kde (from install :P ) and seeing if I can switch user to root etc | 02:33 |
| n4dir | installing gnome will take a while only to prove that root can't login, but i will do it | 02:33 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: Why is it you want to log in to the desktop environment as root? I feel like there's an XY problem where you perhaps mistakenly think the best way to do something (X) is to log in to a desktop environment as root (Y). What are you actually trying to accomplish? What's the X? | 02:33 |
| gnarface | JethroTull: just fyi the only thing you need to do to be able to use the root user is set a password for it... | 02:33 |
| systemdlete | Add to that all the confusion and inconsistencies in security and desktop w/ login manager incompatiblities and you have a marriage of inconvenience. | 02:34 |
| n4dir | stop the display-manager, log in as root, startx, that should work (last time i checked) | 02:34 |
| JethroTull | plasma41: its not that I do nor would I normally. as I explained earlier it was the explained way to edit a sudoers file and though that action is how i logged into root. having said that if you saw my login screen you would say its bugged and not working properly at all | 02:34 |
| n4dir | might be startx will start the display-manager, then more needs to be done | 02:34 |
| JethroTull | has nothing to do with wanting to login as root | 02:34 |
| systemdlete | Logging in as root on the desktop is, I have ONLY heard here and there, is NOT a good idea. | 02:34 |
| JethroTull | everything to do with seeing nothing but a white screen and a password prompt in the middle of it | 02:34 |
| n4dir | the white screen is the thing which needs to be attacked | 02:35 |
| JethroTull | so im trying the same setup with debian since the installs are almost identical. its almost finished | 02:35 |
| JethroTull | yes it is. i cannot choose a user or change desktops etc. all I can do is enter a password and the only one it takes is the user pass | 02:36 |
| gnarface | JethroTull: well, i suspect debian will fail the same exact way | 02:36 |
| JethroTull | thats what i want to find out | 02:36 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: Last I checked, the initial user is automatically placed in the sudoers group. If you want to edit the sudoers file, you should just be able to run 'sudo visudo' | 02:37 |
| gnarface | what it sounds like you're describing is a common driver issue with slim, the default session manager | 02:37 |
| JethroTull | its not plasma41. nor is it in debian | 02:37 |
| n4dir | plasma41: depends what choice you made during installation. | 02:37 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: "it was the explained way to edit a sudoers file" Explained by whom? | 02:39 |
| JethroTull | login screen works perfectly, kde loads perfectly, can log out and switch users no problem including to root. | 02:39 |
| JethroTull | in debian | 02:39 |
| * n4dir waits for the gnome/debian install to finish to check if root can log in | 02:42 | |
| * systemdlete waits for tasksel support devs to correct the errors and problems in their code | 02:44 | |
| systemdlete | I ran into an interesting one yesterday: My test box had gone into xscreensaver mode and when I swtiched back to that box (via a kvms switchbox), it was prompting me for a password, but it wouldn't allow input! | 02:46 |
| systemdlete | I "solved" that problem by using the Advanced Microsoft Diagnosis and Repair method | 02:47 |
| * systemdlete means, he rebooted the hardware | 02:47 | |
| JethroTull | works every time | 02:47 |
| n4dir | And sure enough in debian/gnome i can't login as root | 02:50 |
| JethroTull | neither can I, but I could in devuan xfce and did so to edit the sudoers file until someone awesome reminded me about su - | 02:50 |
| n4dir | shall i install devuan xfce to check that too? | 02:51 |
| JethroTull | im just trying to see if tasksel works in debian them im going to try devuan again with the native desktop | 02:51 |
| JethroTull | let me try again first now that im using the proper install method and not the automatic one without a script | 02:52 |
| JethroTull | no point in wasting both of our time | 02:52 |
| n4dir | they might have changed it back, i doubt that, but i remember very well when display-managers didn't allow login as root anymore | 02:52 |
| n4dir | not that i could think of any good reason why they would have changed it back | 02:53 |
| JethroTull | tasksel seems to work the same in that it doesnt do any housecleaning, it just installs but does not remove | 02:56 |
| n4dir | as said: quite some, if not most, prefer to not use it (during installation) | 02:57 |
| n4dir | instead of, say, task xfce4, they just "apt-get install xfce4" | 02:57 |
| n4dir | would need to check not to forget something, say sometimes xorg is needed, an audioserver, so on | 02:58 |
| n4dir | the remaining question is where the white-screen is coming from, as in debian you don't have it | 03:00 |
| JethroTull | for me thats the primary issue | 03:00 |
| n4dir | what you could do is check if you got the same problem with refracta, which is based on devuan, and very close, plus a few little customizations | 03:01 |
| gnarface | maybe it's just a theme bug, but nvidia issues have plagued slim before | 03:02 |
| gnarface | the difference between enabling non-free-firmware or not could affect the outcomes | 03:02 |
| gnarface | so could whichever minor build of the nvidia drivers are shipping | 03:03 |
| n4dir | yeah, that is waht i thought, but he used sddm (?), and he says in debian it isn't like that. | 03:03 |
| n4dir | well, sddm and other display-managers too | 03:03 |
| gnarface | the theme itself or permissions issues should be the only major differences | 03:03 |
| n4dir | yup | 03:04 |
| n4dir | i for one would already have enough of it and purge display-mangers and be done with it | 03:04 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: What's the exact model of your computer? | 03:05 |
| JethroTull | hang on ill tell you once this install finishes | 03:05 |
| JethroTull | on beelinks website look up the MINI S12. its that | 03:07 |
| JethroTull | great little box for testing stuff | 03:07 |
| plasma41 | JethroTull: This one?: https://www.bee-link.com/catalog/product/index?id=434 | 03:10 |
| rrq | JethroTull: appaenrtly you need to remove "sddm" and install the display manager that is default for kde | 03:11 |
| JethroTull | plasma41: yes | 03:11 |
| JethroTull | rrq: just finishing up reinstalling using default everything well see what happens | 03:11 |
| JethroTull | also how do I do that? heh | 03:12 |
| rrq | installing all from scratch should work the same since it is the same software | 03:12 |
| n4dir | rrq: isn't sddm the default for kde? | 03:12 |
| Xenguy | My advice would be: ditch KDE and try a simpler DE (like MATE) first | 03:13 |
| Xenguy | Start simpler, then expand complexity gradually | 03:13 |
| JethroTull | well im going to try to do it via the terminal manually instead of through the installer or tasksel | 03:13 |
| JethroTull | its not that I dont understand it its that it does not work | 03:13 |
| n4dir | same here, if that helps you | 03:14 |
| Xenguy | .oO( K.I.S. or suffer ... ) | 03:14 |
| JethroTull | oh, and im currently logged in as root via xfce | 03:14 |
| JethroTull | cant do that in debian but you can here | 03:14 |
| Xenguy | You shouldn't be running your DE as root | 03:14 |
| n4dir | i claim: you can't | 03:14 |
| JethroTull | i know i shouldnt, but i am right now just to prove a point :) | 03:15 |
| JethroTull | and to edit the sudoers file | 03:15 |
| Xenguy | Good luck | 03:15 |
| Xenguy | Have fun | 03:15 |
| n4dir | being able to log in as root would probably considered a bug | 03:16 |
| JethroTull | well where do I report it then because its how I can now get my user to sudo | 03:17 |
| rrq | are you saing that a display manager should refuse root login? | 03:17 |
| n4dir | i even say: they do | 03:17 |
| JethroTull | i personaly feel the user should be root if he wants to | 03:17 |
| JethroTull | even if its stupid and risky | 03:18 |
| JethroTull | aha ya installing kde through terminal actually prompts you for the display manager to use tasksel does not | 03:19 |
| * JethroTull hates tasksel now | 03:19 | |
| gnarface | the only box i ever check is "standard system utilities" | 03:20 |
| gnarface | or whatever they've labeled it lately | 03:20 |
| gnarface | but it was less about tasksel misbehaving and more about it just giving me shit i didn't want | 03:21 |
| rrq | that prompt only comes up when there are options.. you have several installed apparent;y | 03:21 |
| JethroTull | hmm ok I selected sddm as my manager and now my login is broken like before | 03:24 |
| rrq | that is sddm's login screen, yes | 03:24 |
| JethroTull | thats normal? totally white and the only thing you get is a password promot in the middle? | 03:25 |
| rrq | apparently "normal" (or default) for sddm-greeter | 03:27 |
| rrq | since task-kde-desktop depends on "lightdm | slim | sddm" I'd say lightdm is it's default display manager (not sddm) | 03:37 |
| rrq | but task-kde-desktop (from tasksel) is forked, so it may be different on debian | 03:38 |
| nemo | I guess they like ultra minimalism | 03:42 |
| * rrq gave systemdlete another misplace apostrophe | 03:46 | |
| Xenguy | JethroTull, You're doing it fucking wrong, as the saying goes | 04:25 |
| Xenguy | (Someone already mentioned 'visudo' or w/e it is, IIRC) | 04:27 |
| Xenguy | And no, start X as a normal user, it's not that hard to follow some sensible advice from people who are trying to help, is it? | 04:27 |
| JethroTull | dont be like that Xenguy - if you read the above you would see that I have been following sensible advice and many problems were solved | 04:30 |
| JethroTull | dont think devuan is ready for a regular linux user like me tho | 04:32 |
| gnarface | did we find the actual bug yet? | 04:35 |
| Xenguy | It's painful to watch convoluted attempts like that. If he gets it, he'll be back, and if he doesn't, he won't... no blame... | 04:37 |
| gnarface | well, i'm pretty sure i did have to switch to lightdm to make everything work right with kde last i tested it too, but that was way back in beowulf | 04:38 |
| gnarface | and i had to switch some other minor dependency as well that was related | 04:38 |
| gnarface | i forget the exact package name, but i was lead to believe that bug had since been fixed | 04:38 |
| Xenguy | And "devuan ready for a regular user" ? | 04:41 |
| Xenguy | that's on him, take responsibility | 04:41 |
| systemdlete | This one machine keeps locking up on me... | 04:42 |
| systemdlete | no input or screen updates | 04:42 |
| systemdlete | I move the moouse, nada | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | If he wants to do everything his way, and it fails, who should be doing the course correction? | 04:42 |
| gnarface | well, some minor trolling, but maybe excusable given the frustration, but i still want to know where the bug actually is | 04:42 |
| gnarface | for me it's about wanting to be able to blame a specific package first | 04:42 |
| rrq | well, they did say "regular linux user like me" which may or might not be a largish group | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | Maybe I should have just bit my tongue | 04:42 |
| systemdlete | daedalus host system that locks up... | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | systemdlete, You seem to have a predilection for strange problems, am I wrong? | 04:44 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: usually only a video driver issue or a bad power supply does that, but hard to be sure without some log evidence... does it ever happen while there's an open ssh connection? | 04:44 |
| Xenguy | Perhaps you are exploring the outer limits, where frightened children such as myself fear to go? | 04:44 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: mostly it seems to be the combined symptoms of rare hardware and out-of-distro virtualization solutions | 04:45 |
| Xenguy | Here there be dragons, very well | 04:46 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: first thing i would do is try to find out if it's only X that's freezing or the whole thing, by having a ssh connection from another machine open ahead of time | 04:47 |
| gnarface | if the ssh terminal remains responsive that narrows things down considerably | 04:48 |
| systemdlete | Xenguy, yeah. That would be me. | 04:56 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, possibly, but I'm not sure (re "open ssh session") | 04:57 |
| systemdlete | Trying to create an ssh connection now... (yeah, after the fact) | 04:59 |
| Xenguy | systemdlete, 'Guilty as charged', love the segment from that silly/wonderful movie | 05:43 |
| Xenguy | https://yewtu.be/watch?v=puvPWvFgnzI | 05:46 |
| * Xenguy runs off to #offtopic | 05:46 | |
| Xenguy | and searched for some video of that | 05:46 |
| * systemdlete continues to browse various logs on system that freezes | 06:26 | |
| systemdlete | gnarface, the only thing I can say is that I could not even ping the machine. | 06:26 |
| systemdlete | tcpdump showed me that the box was not responding to ARP requests | 06:27 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: well, doesn't rule out the video stack completely but does suggest it's something else | 07:25 |
| gnarface | might be useful to see what the last few lines of dmesg were right before it checked out | 07:30 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, the only problem is... how do I know where in the dmesg that is--I assume you mean looking at /var/log/dmesg, because I have to reboot when it freezes. | 08:01 |
| systemdlete | and thanks for staying with me on this. It's only a testbox, but still | 08:01 |
| systemdlete | It was doing this freeze-up previously when I was trying to use a nvidia card with the nouveau drivers. Two days ago, I swapped out the main board for another which has on-board video. But it is still freezing up. | 08:03 |
| rhy | So is there a place I can make suggestions for improving the default Compiz settings in Daedalus? | 08:06 |
| rhy | Do I need to program a swarm of AI? | 08:07 |
| brocashelm | rhy: perhaps #devuan-dev would be the channel for that | 08:09 |
| brocashelm | rhy: also, devuan's focus is to keep systemd out of debian systems, so as long as compiz doesn't suddenly pull in any systemd, the maintainers will keep it exactly as it is upstream (i.e. debian) | 08:10 |
| brocashelm | but you are more than welcome to submit your own proposed changes/fixes | 08:11 |
| rhy | Bruh, if it was sicker out of the box, everyone would STFU. | 08:11 |
| rhy | And it only needs like 3-5 settings adjustments. | 08:11 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: do you have old /var/log/dmesg.* files from previous boots? | 08:16 |
| gnarface | i think it would actually be /var/log/dmesg.0 for the previous boot, the very end would be whatever was last entered | 08:18 |
| gnarface | what i'm not sure is if you need to install something extra to get it to keep the old ones | 08:18 |
| gnarface | rhy: if it's just simple defaults changes, it might be easier to get them pushed into Debian | 08:19 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: also, there should be some way to get it to dump the same data out to a console on the fly, then you could just be logging that from another machine over ssh while it dies; if you're lucky whatever happens will happen before it takes down the network connection, otherwise you might have to resort to a serial connection | 08:21 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: oh, and if you find absolutely nothing that means whatever happens, happens before it can even write it to the log... in that event, do some digging to make sure this kernel command-line option isn't nvidia specific, then enable it and try again: no_console_suspend=1 | 08:26 |
| gnarface | i know you can read the current dmesg with "-T" to get human-readable timestamps, and i know you can read the older log files with "-F [file]" but i don't know how to make both work at once | 08:29 |
| gnarface | there should be some way though | 08:30 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, great idea. rsyslog's omfwd module can do that; I use it already for other stuff. | 08:30 |
| systemdlete | So I know how to make that work. Easy. | 08:30 |
| systemdlete | But the system will have to stay up long enough for me to make that addition! LOL | 08:31 |
| systemdlete | dmesg seems to be ignoring my pleas to read from alternate dmesg files | 08:41 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: as root? | 09:29 |
| gnarface | you can just cat the files, they're not binary | 09:30 |
| gnarface | but they are owned by root:adm so i assume you have to have one of those permissions to use dmesg on them | 09:30 |
| gnarface | or to use anything on them, really | 09:31 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea, that's where i was at, i couldn't actually get it to boot anything from microsd, but i wasn't sure if it was because i needed to install android to unlock the bootloader first or if i was just doing something else wrong | 09:32 |
| gnarface | and then i think i failed at trying to install android, i can't remember why exactly | 09:32 |
| gnarface | woops, wrong channel again sorry | 09:33 |
| onefang | Anybody know why often on web pages a simple apostrophe is rendered as the letter a with a caret above it, the Euro symbol, and the trademark symbol? I'm reading something now where it's getting very annoying. How does something that simple and basic get screwed up? How do I fix it? | 12:41 |
| onefang | C3 A2 E2 82 AC E2 84 A2 in hex. lol | 12:44 |
| Hurgotron_ | hmm, I don't remember seeing that. Do you have an example? | 12:45 |
| onefang | I can’t believe how crazy it’s. | 12:46 |
| onefang | http://pipka.org/ is fine in Firefox, but not in QuiteRSS. Odd. | 12:47 |
| onefang | OK in this case it's feeding the oddness to the RSS feed, but the web page source is OK. | 12:50 |
| onefang | Think I often see it in slashdot though. | 12:50 |
| onefang | Yep, reading the source of that from the RSS shows the excess crap. | 12:55 |
| * onefang throws that at DDG, see wha tit thinks. | 12:56 | |
| onefang | DDG thinks I searched for "can't" lol | 12:57 |
| onefang | DDG found plenty of examples from here https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=657564 | 12:59 |
| onefang | And it’s in the web page source code to. | 13:01 |
| onefang | I guess some web software thinks that we need to bloat things more by turning single byte things into 8 byte things, coz everyone has that particular font? No one is blocking google fonts maybe? | 13:03 |
| onefang | Same in Falkon with no extensions blocking stuff. | 13:06 |
| onefang | And Konqueror. | 13:07 |
| onefang | Even Chromium. | 13:08 |
| * onefang washes my hands and screen. | 13:08 | |
| Hurgotron | onefang: got it. | 13:13 |
| onefang | There are other characters with similar problems, that’s just the most common one. | 13:13 |
| Hurgotron | The apostrophe is Unicode U+2018, which is encoded wit this sequence | 13:13 |
| onefang | Yes, I'm doing it deliberately here. | 13:13 |
| Hurgotron | https://www.i18nqa.com/debug/utf8-debug.html | 13:13 |
| onefang | Yes but why use Unicode for a standard ASCII character used commonly in English for English text? It's just bloat, and now I have to find a font that can render it. Deva Vu apparently can’t. | 13:15 |
| Hurgotron | Some funny (Windows, likely) software using the wrong homoglyph, and encoding detection going wrong, I guess | 13:18 |
| onefang | Looks like I'll just have to put up with it. sigh | 13:38 |
| onefang | Time to cook and eat. | 13:45 |
| jjakob | I'm installing daedalus using "mini.iso" and it fails at "install base system" with "cron-daemon-common depends on systemd | systemd-standalone-sysusers | systemd-sysusers; however package ... is not installed" | 15:22 |
| jjakob | I couldn't find any bug report about this | 15:22 |
| gnarface | onefang: mac ios defaults to inserting 16-byte unicode curly apostrophes instead of the normal one, then slashdot declines to convert it and inserts the two equivalent 8-byte characters instead. you can't fix it by changing fonts, it's happening at the remote end. | 15:38 |
| n4dir | For devuan testing, excalibur, there is only one line in the sources list: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged excalibur main ? | 16:34 |
| jjakob | it's trying to install cron-daemon-common 3.0pl1-178 which is the version in ceres/unstable, not -162 which is in daedalus, but I used the mini.iso from daedalus | 17:04 |
| jjakob | idiot me selected ceres as the version to install, but does that mean ceres isn't installable currently | 21:03 |
| rwp | jjakob, How did you select ceres as the version to install? As far as I know installers are only for Stable Daedalus, and then one upgrades to Unstable Ceres after installation. | 21:17 |
| jjakob | in expert install d-i asks which you want to install | 21:29 |
| jjakob | I tried going back to that step, selecting daedalus, going through the next steps again (partitioning, to reformat /), but at install base system it still went to install ceres, I rebooted and went through all the steps again, now it's installing daedalus | 21:31 |
| fsmithred | using a mini.iso? | 21:32 |
| jjakob | yeah | 21:39 |
| jjakob | PAE or non-PAE kernel for an Atom N270 w/ 2G RAM? | 21:40 |
| fsmithred | I would use pae | 21:45 |
| fsmithred | maybe I already do. I have EEE with atom and 2G | 21:45 |
| rwp | Aren't all 32-bit kernels PAE now? I thought they dropped building non-PAE a while ago. No? | 21:57 |
| rwp | Personally even with only 2G of ram I am running the amd64 kernel on my Atom D525 systems. Well system. I think I am down to only one left now. | 21:58 |
| jjakob | it offers a kernel package without -pae at the end. It's not a 64-bit cpu otherwise I would've used 64 bit | 22:09 |
| jjakob | maybe u | 22:09 |
| jjakob | this is an asus eee top | 22:10 |
| rwp | Ah, 32-bit cpu! Honestly I had disingenuously not considered that possibility. I do still have a few 32-bit cpus and they are still useful. | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | if you don't use the -pae then you might not see all 2G ram | 22:39 |
| rwp | 2G should be okay with 32-bit non-PAE unless something has changed. It used to be that compiled programs would get 2G of data space and 1G of stack but could get 3G if linked shared, which we needed to do for the extra gig of data space. But the kernel would see most of the ram up to 4G with the exceptions carved out for regions from the 640K memory map days. | 22:44 |
| rwp | Here is one of my 32-bit PAE kernel 1G RAM systems, not sure what would be useful to show: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1298788 | 22:49 |
| fsmithred | rwp, I might be thinking of the 586 kernel. I ran into the problem when I installed etch on a machine with 2G ram. | 23:52 |
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