| helios21 | <gnarface> helios21: stick around, someone might know eventually ==> Lorenzo answered on mailing list. Yes the merge is mandatory for Devuan Ceres users. That is why he decided to warn about it in runit package instead of letting users running into an unbootable system situation by accident. He is just the messenger there. Background is: Files like /bin/sh will cease to exist at some time in non usr-merged systems. More detail in Lorenzo's mail on dng-ml | 09:29 |
|---|---|---|
| helios21 | So I just merged this laptop and will merge my user Devuan Ceres systems as well. Not taking a risk of having my systems unbootable. | 09:29 |
| djph | ew | 11:29 |
| djph | :( | 11:29 |
| al1r4d | hi, anyone got "device not ready" from network manager? after update something, i cant connect internet. ath9k_htc. devuan ceres. ty | 11:56 |
| djph | al1r4d: I don't have any atheros cards. Sounds like "possibly" the driver didn't get pulled forward with dkms (possibly) | 12:05 |
| al1r4d | how to fix that, djph? | 12:20 |
| djph | try reinstalling it? maybe (sorry, I haven't used atheros cards in ages :( ) | 12:25 |
| al1r4d | yeah | 12:29 |
| al1r4d | i'm reinstalling right now | 12:29 |
| fsmithred | did network-manager get removed in the upgrade? There were a couple reports of that happening in ceres. | 12:32 |
| fsmithred | one was mixing stable and unstable, the other was not fully described. | 12:33 |
| al1r4d | nope. i can open nmtui, fsmithred | 13:02 |
| al1r4d | but forget it. i did reinstall | 13:02 |
| fsmithred | just the firmware package got lost? | 13:03 |
| al1r4d | nope | 13:04 |
| al1r4d | still available on there | 13:04 |
| al1r4d | firmware-linux-free, firmware-ath9k | 13:04 |
| fsmithred | no firmware-ath9k-htc? | 13:04 |
| al1r4d | firmware-ath9k-htc << i mean this | 13:05 |
| fsmithred | ok | 13:05 |
| al1r4d | Does Devuan use PAM? | 14:23 |
| gnarface | it does, al1r4d | 14:51 |
| gnarface | configs should be /etc/pam.conf /etc/pam.d/ | 14:51 |
| systemdlete | gnarface: Thanks for getting me set up with apt-cache-ng. I would like the OPTION of being able to tell my apt-cache-ng server to provide package updates even if my Internet connection goes down. | 14:54 |
| gnarface | hm, it doesn't? | 14:55 |
| systemdlete | Maybe Farmer Jones accidentally tore up the phone lines to my building, but the boss says, no, this does not mean you have the afternoon off. Keep working. | 14:55 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, I am not 100% sure, but I am 99.9997% sure | 14:55 |
| gnarface | hmm, bummer | 14:55 |
| gnarface | i had not even noticed | 14:55 |
| systemdlete | I think that apt-cache-ng wants to keep its cache up to date with the latest on the remote servers | 14:56 |
| systemdlete | so this does not happen to you? | 14:56 |
| systemdlete | I have checked traffic with tcpdump and it looks like the cacher IS responding. | 14:57 |
| systemdlete | but what I see is failure, at the client, to download the packages.gz files | 14:57 |
| systemdlete | oh, and also | 14:57 |
| gnarface | well, i can't remember seeing that behavior accidentally, and it's not something i can say for sure i ever tested explicitly | 14:57 |
| systemdlete | I am using the cacher with openwrt clients. Don't worry. it works! I see the cacher successfully serving cached packages... but only when it has access to the Internet. | 14:58 |
| gnarface | if the cache wasn't already expired, i would expect it to still serve it to you regardless of its own access to any upstream mirror | 14:58 |
| gnarface | but it's possible i've just never tried it while my connection was down | 14:59 |
| gnarface | are you also serving DNS locally? | 14:59 |
| systemdlete | yes, but I've even tried hard-coding ip addresses in the http_proxy variable, etc | 14:59 |
| systemdlete | I've spent the last 2 hours searching the web for info on using apt-cache-ng offline. | 15:00 |
| gnarface | did you check for options in the admin console? | 15:00 |
| gnarface | something about serving invalid cache anyway or something like that? | 15:01 |
| systemdlete | I did find one page that looked interesting, but it was within the context of someone building PI appliances I think | 15:01 |
| systemdlete | "admin console" -- you mean the web page? | 15:01 |
| gnarface | yea | 15:02 |
| systemdlete | so there is an option then? | 15:02 |
| gnarface | well i don't know i was just wondering if you've checked there for it | 15:02 |
| systemdlete | well, I did find "Restrict to packages related to previously cached files" | 15:02 |
| systemdlete | which I find rather confusing | 15:02 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea me too | 15:02 |
| systemdlete | that is under the mirror options | 15:02 |
| gnarface | so there's a login prompt | 15:02 |
| systemdlete | huh? | 15:03 |
| gnarface | on the web interface, there's a place to log in to get access to some extra options, that's what we're talking about here right? | 15:03 |
| systemdlete | oh... I did not try that, no | 15:03 |
| systemdlete | where is the login? | 15:04 |
| gnarface | ah, you might have to set a password for it in the config file first to enable it, it's been so long... | 15:04 |
| systemdlete | ah | 15:04 |
| systemdlete | I had not set a login password because this is only available to clients on my LAN | 15:04 |
| systemdlete | did not think it necessary | 15:04 |
| gnarface | maybe it's not, maybe it gives you access to all the options anyway if you don't enable it | 15:05 |
| systemdlete | but didn't realize it would open up these other possibilities with it | 15:05 |
| gnarface | i thought that gives you extra options, anyway | 15:05 |
| gnarface | maybe you're right and it just password protects what you're already looking at | 15:05 |
| gnarface | do you see a button that manually flushes the cache? | 15:05 |
| systemdlete | acng-report.html -- are we on the same page? | 15:06 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 15:07 |
| systemdlete | https://i.imgur.com/51HxKpU.png https://imgur.com/4qt8ev9.png (top and bottom screenshot of what I am seeing) | 15:08 |
| systemdlete | btw, apt-cacher-ng is on a chimaera system, so maybe it is an older version of the package | 15:09 |
| systemdlete | note that I unchecked "Force the download of index files (even having fresh ones)" | 15:10 |
| systemdlete | thinking that might be the saving grace here | 15:10 |
| gnarface | hmm, maybe i'm remembering wrong, maybe it just prompts you for a password if you change something | 15:11 |
| gnarface | i do have "restrict to packages related to previously cached files" enabled, do you? | 15:12 |
| systemdlete | I did, but I tried to disable it and start mirroring. That failed. | 15:13 |
| systemdlete | HOWEVER | 15:13 |
| systemdlete | now, as you can see, it is unchecked | 15:13 |
| systemdlete | ??? | 15:13 |
| systemdlete | the only thing I did was click on that first button | 15:13 |
| systemdlete | (the one that updates the listing of log analysis | 15:14 |
| gnarface | the one that calculates the stats? | 15:14 |
| systemdlete | right | 15:14 |
| gnarface | yea, when i press that, it also prompts me for a password | 15:14 |
| systemdlete | look at this: https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~bloch/acng/html/howtos.html#optproxy | 15:14 |
| systemdlete | aha! | 15:14 |
| systemdlete | I didnot get prompted for a pw | 15:14 |
| gnarface | did it actually calculate some stats for you anyway? | 15:15 |
| gnarface | and what else do you have checked on there? | 15:15 |
| systemdlete | yes it did | 15:16 |
| systemdlete | did you look at the screen shots? | 15:16 |
| systemdlete | huh. What about this: "Stop the work on errors during index update step" | 15:17 |
| systemdlete | I wonder if that might help me. From that description, I am not sure where it would "stop the work"--at the cacher, or at the client (apt update, e.g.) | 15:18 |
| gnarface | oh, sorry, no hang on | 15:18 |
| systemdlete | and this: "Skip header checks (faster, not detecting bad metadata)" | 15:19 |
| gnarface | in the screenshot, it has some transfer statistics but no cache efficiency stats. it says "not calculated..." in that field. right by the count data button | 15:20 |
| systemdlete | oh, yeah. I took that snap BEFORE I clicked | 15:20 |
| gnarface | oh i see | 15:20 |
| gnarface | only other difference is my patterns at the bottom are slightly different, but i think i am actually using an even older version than you | 15:21 |
| systemdlete | https://imgur.com/YlcjClf.png | 15:21 |
| gnarface | ah, that looks like it's working | 15:21 |
| systemdlete | let me try unchecking that "Stop the work on errors during index update step" and see if that does the trick for me | 15:24 |
| systemdlete | give me a few minutes (gotta go offline) | 15:24 |
| systemdlete | I just realized that that option is only valid in the context of the operations available on the page. So that is not it. | 15:28 |
| systemdlete | but I wonder if the "partial mirroring" section of the doc might be an answer | 15:29 |
| systemdlete | the only thing is, where do these "precachefor" directives go? | 15:32 |
| Nrml | rwp> Nrml, I am anxious to hear how your upgrade turns out! But I am go afk for a while. BBIAB! Until then Good Luck! -> Thanks and sorry for being AWOL -- RL intervened and I'm solving a couple of problems now, but I plan on getting back on this later and will certainly let you know. Thanks! | 15:34 |
| systemdlete | gnarface, I think I'm on my way now with this. I have set up a new conf file in the config directory called "zzz_mirror.conf" | 15:54 |
| systemdlete | in it, I am placing directives to precachefor: for just the directories in the cache I want | 15:55 |
| systemdlete | but I am getting errors from the daemon when I start it | 15:55 |
| systemdlete | warnings, not errors, but still | 15:55 |
| systemdlete | not sure what they mean | 15:55 |
| systemdlete | I just hope it does not plan to download EVERYTHING everywhere. Right now, it is "briinging idnex files up to date" | 15:57 |
| systemdlete | I wonder if "Restrict to packages related to previously cached files" might mean to NOT download everything. | 15:58 |
| systemdlete | that it will only pre-cache (for the mirroring) what I already have downloaded | 15:58 |
| systemdlete | anyway, I am going to try this now... | 15:59 |
| systemdlete | nope | 16:03 |
| gnu_srs | (19:52:08) gnu_srs: Hello, is it true that merged /usr now is forced upon us from Debian? No way to avoid that? | 19:51 |
| gnu_srs | Posting here as well as on devuan-dev! | 19:52 |
| systemdlete | I have daedalus on VM and hardware, and they have separate /usr partitions | 19:57 |
| systemdlete | on the other hand, I built these using debootstrap scripts, so maybe you are referring to the install programs that do this? | 19:59 |
| onefang | systemdlete: Why do you have separate /usr partitions? | 21:07 |
| jonadab | That used to be strongly recommended by traditional Unix-heads, because historically there was a time when it made some sort of sense. | 21:09 |
| jonadab | More recently, /boot remained a good idea to keep separate | 21:11 |
| jonadab | These days, I think /home is the main thing it might make sense to keep separate. | 21:12 |
| jonadab | Although there are special cases, e.g., a database server might want to put pretty much the whole rest of the system on a normal drive, and the database files on a RAID. | 21:13 |
| onefang | I understand those use cases, I'm wondering what systemdlete's use case is. | 21:33 |
| systemdlete | Unix allows us to do things the way we want to. | 21:52 |
| rwp | onefang, A default Devuan Daedalus install sets up a separate /bin /usr/bin by default. Every Devuan system by default is an unmerged system. | 21:57 |
| rwp | Instead of griping at users installing Devuan (like me) if you want to change Devuan over to UsrMerge then you can do it! I certainly cannot. | 21:57 |
| rwp | To reproduce this download devuan_daedalus_5.0.1_amd64_netinstall.iso and install Devuan then find a system not UsrMerge'd. | 21:58 |
| onefang | "apt install usrmerge" Works fine, easy. | 21:59 |
| onefang | And in my Daedalus install script I install usrmerge in the mmdebstrap stage. | 22:00 |
| rwp | That's great! Now go and get Devuan changed to it. It's easy! Just have them switch over. No problem! | 22:01 |
| onefang | The point I'm making is that Devuan already has all the usrmerge stuff. No need to get them to switch, and users still have a choice. So correct, no problem. B-) | 22:02 |
| rwp | I am perfectly happy to switch. But I do a lot of fresh installations for testing. And right now Devuan installs a non-merged system. | 22:04 |
| onefang | systemdlete: You still haven't explained WHY you want to, which is what I asked. | 22:06 |
| onefang | In my test Daedalus VM I can't start synaptic from my ordinary desktop user (who is in the sudo group) from starting synpatic, except via sudo. pkexec and synaptic-pkexec are not working. From the desktop menu it just fails to start. From a terminal it asks me for my password, which doesn't actually work. Exact same password works with sudo. | 22:40 |
| onefang | Tried suggestions from several web hits, didn't help. | 22:40 |
| n4dir | which DE? | 22:41 |
| onefang | awesome | 22:42 |
| n4dir | Yup. You got it working with awesome on any other installation? | 22:42 |
| onefang | Works fine on my Chimaera desktop. | 22:43 |
| n4dir | Well, i do remember i had hard times making synaptic work when using a window manager, it worked right away with xfce | 22:43 |
| n4dir | i forgot all other details. But if you have it working else, it should at least be possible | 22:44 |
| n4dir | what also might, or might not, be relevant is running a display-manager or not | 22:45 |
| onefang | It's the whole my real password fails in pkexec, so does root password, though works fine in sudo. | 22:45 |
| onefang | Might be some PAM issue? | 22:47 |
| rrq | doesn't pkexec use "polkit" for authorizations? | 22:51 |
| onefang | Both are installed. | 22:54 |
| n4dir | when i had that problem i asked, and fsmithred told me about all the things needed to make it work, but, as said, for the life of me i didn't get it working with icewm | 22:55 |
| rrq | onefang: afaui polkit gets its decision raisins from files in /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/ ... something applicable to synapitc in there? | 23:00 |
| rrq | synaptic | 23:00 |
| onefang | That directory is empty. | 23:01 |
| onefang | Ah having lxpolkit installed AND running seems to have fix it. | 23:08 |
| fsmithred | there should be synaptic-pkexec in there, I think | 23:08 |
| onefang | Yep, was trying that. | 23:09 |
| rrq | it might be a case of lxpolkit been upgraded to use that systemd wrapping for dbus launching... N/A on Devuan | 23:09 |
| fsmithred | sorry, /usr/bin/synaptic-pkexec | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | and that should come with synaptic. | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | If that doesn't work, change your su path and run it from root terminal | 23:10 |
| onefang | More a case of lxpolkit wasn't installed or runing. | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | ah | 23:10 |
| onefang | I've moved away from lxde, so I had not installed the zarious lx utilities. Reinstalling some of those one by one as I find out I still need them. | 23:13 |
| onefang | s/zarious/various/ | 23:13 |
| Wonka | arrgh. again and again and again... | 23:48 |
| Wonka | update-rc.d: error: initscript does not exist: /etc/init.d/pdns | 23:48 |
| Wonka | where do I have to kick orphan-sysvinit-script? | 23:49 |
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