| spine-o-saurus | i still cant figure out why i lost native Xorg resolution after update on excaliber | 03:47 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: which video card, specificall? | 03:48 |
| gnarface | *specifically | 03:48 |
| gnarface | most likely answer is that you lost a non-free package during the upgrade and just have to fix your sources.list to be able to install it again | 03:49 |
| gnarface | if you're using a nvidia card though, the second most likely possibility is they deprecated your hardware | 03:49 |
| gnarface | or "marked as obsolete" or whatever | 03:50 |
| gnarface | (i hear that our established use of the word "deprecated" has itself, been deprecated) | 03:50 |
| gnarface | remember, that as of daedalus, several key driver and firmware packages that used to be in "non-free" got moved to "non-free-firmware" | 03:51 |
| gnarface | if you can verify that none of the above is happening, sounds like it's time to file a bug report | 03:52 |
| onefang | You left out one gnarface, Excalibur is testing, things might break. | 03:56 |
| onefang | Though I guess "file a bug report" covers that. | 03:57 |
| gnarface | onefang: well, yes, but that doesn't mean debian won't accept a relevant bug report for it, especially if this is still the same issue i remember him complaining about over 3 months ago | 03:57 |
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: do you know if daedalus is working right in this regard, or did you skip over it? | 03:58 |
| spine-o-saurus | no i only run testing because that is the only repo that has the non-free firmware for vga card | 03:59 |
| onefang | Ah I don't recall over 3 months ago. I'll leave it to you two to sort out. | 03:59 |
| gnarface | onefang: well, it's kinda a vague timeframe, more of an impression really than a clear memory | 04:02 |
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: which vga card? | 04:02 |
| gnarface | you may have told us before, but i forgot | 04:02 |
| spine-o-saurus | Navi 21 radeon RX 6900 XT | 04:03 |
| spine-o-saurus | so i should just plug in daedalus into apt and see if it downgrades to stable?? | 04:09 |
| Xenguy | good question | 04:09 |
| spine-o-saurus | that is all i can think of other that reinstall | 04:10 |
| Xenguy | I have a feeling gnarface is working on it | 04:10 |
| Xenguy | TBH I haven't heard a whole lot about downgrades in Debian, but I may be behind the times too | 04:12 |
| spine-o-saurus | it has worked for some packages but i've tried fullblown downgrade | 04:13 |
| spine-o-saurus | not yet at least | 04:13 |
| Xenguy | One would think that ability to roll back would be advantageous, but I'm not aware of that yet in Debian... | 04:14 |
| Xenguy | Having said that, I've literally never needed to do so with Debian | 04:15 |
| Xenguy | So I have a lot of confidence in whatever upgrade measure they do (except for systemd : -) | 04:15 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: i appreciate the faith in me but i was not | 05:05 |
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: that's a newer one for sure, so i'm not sure daedalus is new enough, but i wouldn't recommend downgrade, i would recommend booting the live iso as a test | 05:06 |
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: i just found this: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-amdgpu-unified-linux-20-45 | 05:13 |
| gnarface | i think that's the earliest appearance of rx 6900 support and it says it corresponds to ubuntu 20.x and kernel 5.4.0, so that should mean daedalus is plenty new enough. try the daedalus live iso, and if it's fine then that'll inform your next decision | 05:14 |
| gnarface | (whether to risk a downgrade or just wipe it and start over, or dual-boot, etc... probably no easy ways out at that point) | 05:14 |
| gnarface | spine-o-saurus: sorry, i could have found that information for you sooner but i got distracted | 05:15 |
| gnarface | basically, if the live iso works, you might strongly want to consider running daedalus to save yourself trouble in the near future, but if it also is failing then the possibility there's a bug in the driver that upstream will care about goes up dramatically | 05:20 |
| spine-o-saurus | ya i knew it was simply a matter of time before the testing release fouled up | 05:21 |
| gnarface | i hope he tries the live iso and gets back to us on that | 05:44 |
| cousin_luigi | I don't understand what's the proper way to have init files log into syslog. using lsb helper functions I can see stuff in /var/log/boot | 10:38 |
| cousin_luigi | But not into /var/log/syslog: perhaps the latter needs to be properly configured? | 10:38 |
| gour | morning | 10:47 |
| gour | installing devuan on my old netbook to test it a bit in order to try moving my main desktop to it... | 10:47 |
| cousin_luigi | looks like I'm out of touch with things and will have to read up a bit | 10:48 |
| gour | what would be some (good) reason to use e.g. runit instead of sysvinit? | 10:48 |
| eyalroz | After a recent apt-get upgrade, and a (re)installation of the celluloid media player, I'm having trouble running it. It gives me: | 10:58 |
| eyalroz | celluloid: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmpv.so.2: undefined symbol: av_packet_side_data_get, version LIBAVCODEC_60 | 10:58 |
| cousin_luigi | eyalroz: Do you use external repositories for multimedia packages perchance? | 11:30 |
| eyalroz | cousin_luigi: Let me check | 11:47 |
| eyalroz | cousin_luigi: http://www.deb-multimedia.org bookworm | 11:48 |
| eyalroz | hmm, maybe that should be trixie | 11:49 |
| eyalroz | updated it to deb-multimedia trixie, but the problem persists | 11:50 |
| gnarface | gour: the primary argument for it that i understand is that creating your own service for it is easier. unfortunately the practical situation is that currently you will have to do so much more often than with sysvinit, just because it's been around longer. | 12:07 |
| gnarface | and creating a service for sysvinit isn't super difficult either, typically | 12:08 |
| gnarface | now, maybe runit is slightly faster in some regards too but i doubt you'd notice much difference on modern hardware | 12:09 |
| gour | gnarface: thanks. i wonder how many packages shipped by devuan are covered by syvinit/runit? e.g. are stuff like vnstat/apacupsd/cups etc. equipped by the default service? | 12:10 |
| gour | as far as "systemd-user" services, currently i only have one for mbsync/mu, but that can be easily done by cron job | 12:10 |
| gour | i'm aware that systemd-distro might be a bit more convenient, but it is disgusting how much is systemd pushed into linux ecosystem 😠| 12:11 |
| gnarface | gour: i don't know of any place that data has been compiled as such, but that doesn't mean there isn't any... the only thing i could suggest is just try it and see if what you need is setup already or if it's easy enough to setup yourself | 12:11 |
| cousin_luigi | Right now I'm not sure how I should log whatever a sysv init script does. Writing directly to syslog seems inappropriate. | 12:12 |
| cousin_luigi | logger does not work that early | 12:12 |
| gour | gnarface: ok, i might try with sysvinit to see if i can get working system according to my needs.... | 12:12 |
| gour | i've a need for some prop. app like zoom. is it advisable to use *.deb packages for such or flatpak? | 12:13 |
| gnarface | you'll also find it easier to get sysvinit support around here, simply because it's better known | 12:13 |
| gnarface | i think flatpack is not advised | 12:14 |
| cousin_luigi | if you foul your system with flatpak please don't come crying in here! | 12:14 |
| gnarface | well, cry in #devuan-offtopic instead of here | 12:14 |
| gour | 😄 | 12:15 |
| gnarface | what i'd recommend if you need to install out-of-repo debs is, use a separate install for it | 12:15 |
| gnarface | virtualize, dual-boot, or just chroot, doesn't matter | 12:15 |
| gnarface | (usually) | 12:15 |
| gnarface | just because they tend to screw up your install | 12:16 |
| gnarface | it's not always obvious how until much later | 12:16 |
| gour | well, i believe all the packages are covered with a *.deb | 12:18 |
| hotspotLogin | hello there - a couple of days ago - i successfully dual boot dev1 on old macbook pro.. thanks to fsmithred and another guy who isnt online who helped me through it to have no trouble, i chose gnome and things worked fine other than some sound driver issues and webcam drivers issues... i wanted to switch to xfce4 and successfully installed the | 15:37 |
| hotspotLogin | same.. but i am unable to login to internet via xfce4 .. because when ever i use ethernet, gnome presents me hotspot-login interface which asks me a Username and Password and then the ethernet connects automagically - but the same doesnt happen on xfce4 on searching the bg processes, i figured gnome-shell-portal is the process that helps in | 15:37 |
| hotspotLogin | bringing up the dialog that allows me to enter the ISP login and password but there is no such process in xfce4 as i looked up in internet... how do i make xfce4 run a similar n/w dialog for me so i can login to ISP? | 15:37 |
| gnarface | hotspotLogin: i'm guessing you need a different package that does the same task, but i'm not sure which. i'd check "apt-cache search ^xfce" first to see if anything not currently installed from that list looks promising | 15:45 |
| gnarface | if that doesn't turn up anything, maybe try just installing network-manager | 15:46 |
| hotspotLogin | thanks for suggestion gnarface yes nm and nmcli are already installed yes.. i tried that apt search.. and also an internet search and chatgtp - i get this - Based on the search results, there is no specific package in XFCE that is equivalent to the gnome-shell-portal process for starting an ISP internet login portal. The gnome-shell-portal | 15:48 |
| hotspotLogin | process is part of the GNOME Shell desktop environment and is responsible for handling various portal-related functionalities, including captive portal detection and login. | 15:48 |
| gnarface | there might be a way to run it under xfce and still be useful, i don't know for sure how integrated it is with gnome | 15:49 |
| gnarface | did you try just running it from a terminal? | 15:49 |
| gnarface | or did installing xfce remove it? | 15:49 |
| hotspotLogin | no installing xfce did not remove it, it can run once i login into gnome, setup internet login and then logout and turn into xfce4 and can work on it.. but | 15:51 |
| gnarface | it doesn't work if you run it while inside xfce though? | 15:51 |
| hotspotLogin | the thing is i want to remove gnome and the bloat that comes with it and maintain a simple minimal xfce | 15:51 |
| gnarface | i don't blame you really | 15:52 |
| gnarface | i'd be tempted to patch in the missing feature with a shell script, but luckily i've never had to | 15:52 |
| hotspotLogin | xfce doesnt start any such service, it takes sees existing connection is live and allows me to use it.. | 15:52 |
| gnarface | well, there's other xfce users here, stick around and maybe someone will have a better idea for you | 15:53 |
| gnarface | you can't be the first one to have run into this | 15:53 |
| hotspotLogin | sure... yes | 15:53 |
| hotspotLogin | i hope so | 15:54 |
| ecxod | If I understand it well udev is depending on systemd ? | 16:57 |
| ecxod | and the udev in devuan is practically eudev ? | 17:03 |
| gnarface | it is actaully eudev | 17:10 |
| gnarface | *actually | 17:10 |
| gnarface | i think in earlier releases you could install either though, there was an earlier udev version that was patched to not need systemd | 17:10 |
| gnarface | though, annoyingly it was called 'systemd-udevd' anyway | 17:11 |
| hotspotLogin | is there a dev1 daily-build and weekly-builds repo just like debian? | 17:38 |
| fsmithred | hotspotLogin, maybe pinenetry works in your situation? | 17:42 |
| fsmithred | and no, we don't do daily builds. We do weekly builds when preparing for release, but I don't think that's up and running for excalibur yet. | 17:43 |
| hotspotLogin | oh .. let me look it up what it is | 17:43 |
| hotspotLogin | i see.. may be monthly builds - i dono | 17:44 |
| fsmithred | there's a bunch of changes being made in our infrastructure now, so nothing is happening on any schedule | 17:45 |
| hotspotLogin | gotcha | 17:45 |
| hotspotLogin | btw, what is excalibur and pinenentry ? | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | there's probably a recent ceres mini-iso | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | lol | 17:46 |
| hotspotLogin | because chatgpt is like - there is no specific information about "Devuan Excalibur" in the search results that can be directly associated with Devuan or any specific package. | 17:46 |
| hotspotLogin | Similarly, "Pinenetry" does not appear to be a widely recognized term or package in the context of Linux distributions. | 17:46 |
| fsmithred | excalibur is Devuan 6 (I think that's the right number) | 17:46 |
| hotspotLogin | may be i dindnt say it right to chatgpt - lol .. | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | it's part of a package name | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | apt-cache search pinentry | 17:47 |
| fsmithred | fuck chatgpt. Ask apt. | 17:47 |
| hotspotLogin | oh.. i was looking for latest packages coz i thought it might have latest xfce packages for one of my above issues | 17:47 |
| hotspotLogin | with xfce and gnome compatibility about gnome-shell-portal process that takes care of captive portal detection.. | 17:48 |
| fsmithred | check to see if pinentry-gnome3 is installed. Maybe you need a different one. | 17:48 |
| fsmithred | There are around half a dozen of them. | 17:49 |
| hotspotLogin | oh pinentry and not pinenentry - a typo early.. its ok.. actually my need is to move away from gnome to xfce.. | 17:49 |
| hotspotLogin | captive login automatically works on gnome for me.. but it aint for xfce.. so i am unable to throw away gnome | 17:50 |
| fsmithred | did you do the search I suggested? | 17:50 |
| fsmithred | if you don't like terminals you can go to pkginfo.devuan.org and search for pinentry* | 17:51 |
| fsmithred | be sure to include the star | 17:51 |
| hotspotLogin | am more comfy on terminal ... i was just want minimal devuan.. just fyi - this is movingMacBook from a few days ago and my previous query and debugging is on xfce and ISP based captive portal that i posted before 2 hours... | 17:54 |
| hotspotLogin | it was a curiousity question on weekly builds and daily builds | 17:55 |
| hotspotLogin | am sure you must remember me from movedMacBook user whom you helped before 3-4 days to move to devuan | 17:55 |
| hotspotLogin | pinentry is available and looks like it is related to GNUPG... | 17:56 |
| n4dir | it is your choice, but switching nicknames is a bit "confusing". confusing is the wrong word | 17:57 |
| hotspotLogin | oh hey.. how you too are doing? | 17:57 |
| n4dir | so far, so good. Thanks. And glad all seems to have worked. | 17:57 |
| n4dir | as far minimal is concerned some might be able to help. Depending how minimal you want to go | 17:58 |
| hotspotLogin | on IRC where i login, i usually name my login as the issue that i face so that can give a subject to the reader on what issue i am facing | 17:58 |
| n4dir | yeah, no problem with it, only if you "know" someone, there are certain things you don't have to say or ask again. | 17:59 |
| hotspotLogin | minimal number of packages that and minimal resources consumption on GUI - so just xfce and i3 | 17:59 |
| n4dir | it was a sidenote | 17:59 |
| hotspotLogin | hmm... yes.. probably sway as wayland seems to be future.. | 17:59 |
| n4dir | say there are quite some usual PC things you can do from the terminal. Else xfce for full comfort and i3 sounds like you are already there. | 18:00 |
| n4dir | as long you don't install the task xfce during installation, which you probably didnt | 18:00 |
| hotspotLogin | so my question before 2 - 2.25 hours was related to gnome-shell-portal a package or process that automagically brings up a login screen where i enter my ISP password and login and network is setup after that.. | 18:00 |
| hotspotLogin | but that thing isnt working on xfce... that is what am looking for about 5-6 hours now | 18:01 |
| n4dir | in xfce config (gui) there is some stuff you can enable to start , say gnome stuff and such. I hardly ever do such, well never, but you might want to look there. | 18:02 |
| hotspotLogin | true.. i dint xfce during installation - i chose gnome.. and that throwing away gnome games etc.. and then i tasksel into xfce | 18:02 |
| hotspotLogin | xfce is good enough for me.. but n/w login is what is stopping me from throwing away gnome | 18:02 |
| hotspotLogin | this was my question when i logged into irc today - and gnarface suggested to wait around.. | 18:03 |
| hotspotLogin | hello there - a couple of days ago - i successfully dual boot dev1 on old macbook pro.. thanks to fsmithred and another guy who isnt online who helped me through it to have no trouble, i chose gnome and things worked fine other than some sound driver issues and webcam drivers issues... i wanted to switch to xfce4 and successfully installed the | 18:03 |
| hotspotLogin | same.. but i am unable to login to internet via xfce4 .. because when ever i use ethernet, gnome presents me hotspot-login interface which asks me a Username and Password and then the ethernet connects automagically - but the same doesnt happen on xfce4 on searching the bg processes, i figured gnome-shell-portal is the process that helps in | 18:03 |
| hotspotLogin | bringing up the dialog that allows me to enter the ISP login and password but there is no such process in xfce4 as i looked up in internet... how do i make xfce4 run a similar n/w dialog for me so i can login to ISP? | 18:03 |
| hotspotLogin | and since you werent online - i couldnt tag you to thank you | 18:03 |
| n4dir | i don't know | 18:04 |
| hotspotLogin | its ok.. i'll wait a bit .. and get back tomorrow.. coz my time on the internet is out for the day .. | 18:05 |
| hotspotLogin | about to be out.. | 18:05 |
| hotspotLogin | and what i didnt get is how fsmithred asked me to look into pinentry which was about GnuPG | 18:09 |
| hotspotLogin | excalibur i understood.. coz i asked about weekly builds | 18:10 |
| n4dir | what kind of ISP or network connection or such do you have? | 18:11 |
| hotspotLogin | kind of as in? | 18:12 |
| n4dir | I do recall some weird package/app, but forgot the name. It was for older ways to connect to the net (kinda dial-up, i guess) | 18:12 |
| hotspotLogin | yes.. kinda dial up.. | 18:12 |
| hotspotLogin | true.. those were some good old days | 18:12 |
| n4dir | there sure was a package. I don't remember the name, nor if it is still available. Someone needs to figure out a good apt-cache search term | 18:12 |
| cousin_luigi | During the install I picked that "usrmerge" clause: can it be undone? | 18:13 |
| brocashelm | with backups | 18:13 |
| hotspotLogin | ooh.. there is an unmainted package up.. let me look it up for me | 18:13 |
| brocashelm | or a reinstall | 18:13 |
| n4dir | wvdial doesn't ring a bell, but perhaps that was it | 18:13 |
| brocashelm | someone on here once said the usrmerge is mainly a problem in debian-based distros because it's not cleanly implemented unlike arch, slackware, void, etc. | 18:14 |
| hotspotLogin | i see.. dial up is the term i was missing up with my searches so for.. so i gotta search using that | 18:14 |
| brocashelm | so avoiding it is the best-case scenario | 18:14 |
| hotspotLogin | usrmerge clause - is that related to /usr/sbin symlinking to some other directory ? | 18:15 |
| hotspotLogin | that was a question that was asked during installation - i didnt know what it is about.. and i went with recommended one | 18:16 |
| n4dir | i don't remember having been asked that, but then: I hardly read what is written on the screen, just hammer on the enter key | 18:17 |
| hotspotLogin | lol | 18:17 |
| n4dir | i think: if it goes south, i might start to read when i have to do it again. :-) | 18:17 |
| hotspotLogin | suree.. i dont blame you .. its the way of the world .. until the climate change hits | 18:21 |
| cousin_luigi | brocashelm: :| | 18:44 |
| cousin_luigi | Is the "predictable network interface names" a systemd thing? | 18:44 |
| cousin_luigi | Because I'm migrating from debian and I'm back to eth0/eth1/eth2 etch | 18:44 |
| fsmithred | cousin_luigi, udev uses enpblah names, eudev uses ethN names. If you want to revert to the so-called predictable names, boot with 'net.ifnames=1' | 18:47 |
| cousin_luigi | fsmithred: aha, will try now, thanks | 18:48 |
| cousin_luigi | fsmithred: It worked, but I had to fix a ton of other problems before being able to come back online. | 19:43 |
| * cousin_luigi is seeing strange errors at reboot: is there a way to get a verbose log of what ifupdown is doing? | 20:23 | |
| cousin_luigi | Perhaps the networking service? | 20:24 |
| cousin_luigi | yes apparently | 20:24 |
| rwp | dmesg displays the kernel's message buffer. If "bootlogd" package is installed then /var/log/boot logs boot messages. | 20:29 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: Was that for me? | 20:34 |
| rwp | Yes. Since you asked about error messages at boot time. | 20:34 |
| rwp | Also ifupdown logs actions to /var/log/syslog normally too. Look there for routine actions that happen just at any time and not just at boot time. | 20:35 |
| cousin_luigi | Shutdown actually. But /var/log/boot won't tell me more than what I see on console anyway. | 20:35 |
| cousin_luigi | VERBOSE=YES helped | 20:35 |
| rwp | If you can see the console then you should be able to see almost everything. But seeing is not recording. If I want to copy-paste the message then I look in the /var/log/syslog file. | 20:36 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: The problem is that the init script itself wasn't telling me enough. Now I think I've found the problem. | 20:36 |
| rwp | For networking I often would get onto the console and run both "ifdown eth0" and then "ifup eth0" and just see what it is doing. | 20:36 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: This is a bridge | 20:36 |
| cousin_luigi | That for some reason is not brought down properly at shutdown. Which, by the way, brings me to a question connected to it: is there a clean way to disable scripts inside /etc/network/if-up.d without deleting or -x'ing them? | 20:37 |
| rwp | You say that like it is somehow important for me to know. | 20:37 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: I wonder if it has something to do with interfaces not being set down in the right order | 20:38 |
| rwp | Why would it being a bridge prevent it from shutting down cleanly? Half of my systems all run bridges in order to support running virtual machines. They all shutdown cleanly. | 20:38 |
| rwp | All of the scripts in /etc/network/if-*.d/* that come from installed packages should work okay. | 20:39 |
| cousin_luigi | At every reboot networking complains that the bridge doesn't exist, despite me having used it until a moment earlier. And ifdown doesn't show any problem, interactively. | 20:39 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: resolved fails | 20:39 |
| rwp | What is "resolved"? I am unfamiliar with it. | 20:40 |
| rwp | Implies it might be "systemd-resolvd" and if so then it would be something I would have purged immediately without a second thought. | 20:41 |
| rwp | Because for example systemd-resolvd is highly buggy with regards to handling DNSSEC which is becoming more pervasive. But it often fails to resolve DNSSEC sites or fails to properly report failing. Failure is not an option with systemd-resolvd as it comes bundled with the program. | 20:42 |
| cousin_luigi | dpkg -S /etc/network/if-up.d/resolved | 20:43 |
| cousin_luigi | ifupdown: /etc/network/if-up.d/resolved | 20:43 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: I wouldn't dream of installing anything systemd-related on devuan: it would kind of defeat the purpose. | 20:44 |
| cousin_luigi | that one fails at boot btw | 20:45 |
| rwp | Hang around here in the channel long enough and you will have seen things that you can't unsee. | 20:45 |
| rwp | Interesting about "dpkg -S /etc/network/if-up.d/resolved" as that is new for Daedalus and did not exist in Chimaera. | 20:46 |
| rwp | Being new I would be suspicious that perhaps it is not yet mature avoiding all strange cases. But I would still expect it to work for the mainstream case okay. | 20:47 |
| cousin_luigi | Perhaps a set -x will help | 20:47 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: Mine is probably not a mainstream case | 20:47 |
| rwp | I looked at the script and as far as I can tell it would never do anything on any Devuan system as it is a large if-then statement enabled only on systemd systems. | 20:48 |
| rwp | Run this command and tell me what you see from it: systemctl is-enabled systemd-resolved ; echo $? | 20:48 |
| cousin_luigi | bash: systemctl: command not found | 20:49 |
| rwp | Very good. Then that script will do nothing. | 20:49 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/6f03663a/ <- any chance there might be harmful crud in there? | 20:51 |
| rwp | All of those are state "un" which is Unknown None state. None are installed. Try this command instead: dpkg -l | grep systemd | 20:54 |
| rwp | Also, all file glob wildcards are best to be quoted on the command line so that they do not expand accidentally to match file names. That is, use "*systemd*" rather than *systemd* as if you happened to have any local file named anything-systemd-anything those file glob star chars would expand to the file pathname and that's not what you want. | 20:56 |
| cousin_luigi | rwp: No output | 20:56 |
| rwp | Not installed. | 20:56 |
| rwp | BBIAB, I gotta run off for a while | 20:56 |
| cousin_luigi | set -x in resolved didn't show a thing | 20:56 |
| gnu_srs1 | FUI: If you accidentally installed usrmerge run dpkg-fsys-usrunmess to revert. Of course some packages need some love: dbus, netcat-traditional, firmware, ... | 21:00 |
| cousin_luigi | gnu_srs1: Hmm, thanks. | 21:01 |
| cousin_luigi | Perhaps I will just leave things as they are, or reinstall on a different device since this one appears to be a fake thumbdrive. | 21:01 |
| cousin_luigi | (extremely slow) | 21:02 |
| eyalroz | cousin_luigi: ping... we were chatting about the weird celluloid failure to find a symbol in libmpv... | 22:08 |
| eyalroz | celluloid: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmpv.so.2: undefined symbol: av_packet_side_data_get, version LIBAVCODEC_60 | 22:08 |
| rustyaxe | hey friends. | 22:33 |
| rustyaxe | I ahve a small router with devuan on it and an LTE module. It takes some time for GPS to acquire, ip setup, etc. I can send an AT command to the modem and get back a response with the date/time. What's a good spot in the boot process to do that in devuan? | 22:34 |
| rustyaxe | If i send AT+CCLK? to /dev/ttyUSB3, it will respond +CCLK: "80/01/06,07:16:15-20" if unknown (still slightly better than 1970) or +CCLK: "23/12/23,21:32:57" | 22:35 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, I would consider installing the fake-hwclock package instead as the simplest yet still practical way to make things work. | 22:39 |
| rwp | The fake-hwclock package sets the time at boot to the last time that was seen when the system was previously running. Which will be pretty close on a reboot and much better than 1970. And then also run ntpd with the -g option to set the clock once an actual time is known to sync the clock that last little bit. | 22:40 |
| Xenguy | rwp, Opinion of chrony ? | 22:41 |
| Xenguy | (RH inspired, I'm told) | 22:41 |
| rustyaxe | right now i have gpsd and chrony setup to sync the time to gps once that's acquired, but that's a good few minutes after boot. the LTE module should be up and online within about 30-35 seconds | 22:41 |
| rwp | chrony and ntpd are basically equivalent. Which means that for rustyaxe's issue both are also equivalent. | 22:42 |
| rustyaxe | once ip's up and ntp is reachable, that becomes the preferred time source | 22:42 |
| Xenguy | Good, no shade for chrony, I feel vindicated : -) | 22:42 |
| rustyaxe | fake-hwclock does help tho | 22:42 |
| Xenguy | I will say, I installed it, then didn't have to lift a config finger, and it Just Worked[TM] | 22:42 |
| rustyaxe | tho which fs to store the time on since root is readonly ;) | 22:42 |
| rustyaxe | i had to do a few lines of config to get it playing with gpsd | 22:43 |
| rwp | Xenguy, If you want me to throw shade on chrony then I could work on that problem. :-) | 22:43 |
| Xenguy | rwp, Please do, RH/IBM probably deserves it = ) | 22:43 |
| rustyaxe | i cant complain about chrony tho ntpd i could set time from WWV.... | 22:45 |
| rwp | When chrony first entered the seen IIRC it used to "jump the clock" routinely and so that soured me on it. But I guess it has been rewritten since then to do what ntpd does. I guess. I should dig into it but life and time is what keeps everything from happening all at once. I'll assume it is okay now unless I hear otherwise. | 22:45 |
| rwp | But it should not matter which of ntp, ntpsec, chrony, that you install they all should be install and Just Work out of the box. | 22:46 |
| rustyaxe | Course time (-/+ 60 seconds) will let get ip connectivity up anyways | 22:47 |
| rustyaxe | Coarse | 22:47 |
| rwp | Meanwhile I have a somewhat large collective so I don't want all of them going out to the network, I want my collective to use a quorum of local servers, and just the quorum to be a load on the Internet timeservers. So I always reconfigure mine to that goal. But anyone with a single or three machines should be able to simply install and go and everything should Just Work. | 22:48 |
| rustyaxe | Not sure if openntp supports gpsd, id have to look- it does have soundcard WWV support. But i dont have a sound card and im not sure i want to dedicate a slicer in the fpga to time acquisition :P | 22:48 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, The main thing that people run into these days is https certificates require coarse time in order to validate the signature. | 22:48 |
| rwp | My systems are mostly always network connected so there is no need for GPS or WWV time base here. Though if I did need it that should work well for me as I can see the WWV antennas from my house. :-) | 22:50 |
| rustyaxe | That's part of it, another is the tunnel wont accept you if time is too after adrift. that's discounting all the annoyance of the *nix side of things. | 22:50 |
| rwp | What is "the tunnel" and are we expected to know this? Around here if someone says The Tunnel they mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower_Tunnel | 22:51 |
| rustyaxe | could store time in /var/log anyways | 22:51 |
| rustyaxe | but i think querying the modem's easiest | 22:51 |
| rustyaxe | as i get reliable time. Im not sure the hwclock thing really helps other than being a bit closer at early boot | 22:51 |
| rustyaxe | rwp: The thing that magically encrypts and encapsulates my packets from transport over a hostile network- from this box to my home :P | 22:52 |
| rustyaxe | err for transport | 22:52 |
| rustyaxe | CGNAT, the internet in general, etc. An ugly battlefield the packets must cross to get home from my radio | 22:53 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, Perhaps instead of trying to work around not having a battery backed hardware clock the best answer might be to add one? Many single-board-computers have a clock are just need a battery to be attached to it. Perhaps yours just needs a battery too? Then all of these problems are avoided. | 22:54 |
| rustyaxe | Its well possible my battery has indeed died for the rtc. Which means inevitably it will die again. Heh. Just not sure where in the boot process would be a good place to plop a perl script to interrogate the modem. Its already a written, a massive 8 lines :P | 22:55 |
| rwp | rustyaxe, Look at /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh, make a copy of it, change the names to your local names, install it, and you should be set. | 23:00 |
| rwp | Install it by running "update-rc.d mylocalhwclocknamehere defaults" and it will appear in the right place in the boot order. | 23:01 |
| rustyaxe | rwp: thanks. was adding some code to detect if year was before 2023, since we dont sell to time travellers | 23:19 |
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