freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2018-06-16

fsmithrednovemberrain, if you're going from jessie to ascii, you should be seeing python-apt getting upgraded to 1.4.0~beta3. Where did you get the 1.1?00:00
golinuxChuangTzu: pm00:02
fsmithredhow did you install jessie, and what have you done to her in the meantime?00:04
novemberraini might have installed a backported version? i have now00:04
novemberraini'm using jessie for some 2 years now00:05
fsmithredthat version is not in any backports repo (jessie, ascii or stretch)00:05
fsmithredmaybe you pulled it from testing or sid some time ago?00:06
fsmithredsid/ceres has 1.6.1 now00:06
fsmithredcan you paste your sources.list somewhere (not here)00:07
novemberraini'm sure i installed a newer firejail from debian repos, but i didn't mess with sources, just downloaded it "manually"00:07
fsmithredwhat repo you using?00:07
golinuxnovemberrain: Use fsmithred's firemenu.  Much easier on the eyes00:08
novemberraini don't remember doing the same with gnupg, but there's a non-zero chance i did it00:08
fsmithredare you using ascii?00:09
fsmithredor something else -if so, what?00:09
novemberrainall the sources i'm using now are ascii00:09
fsmithredok, that should work00:10
fsmithredwhat version of gnupg is currently installed?00:10
novemberrainthe thing is, when i do apt-get update, i see a lot of write errors and/or broken pipes00:11
novemberrainbut that sometimes happened before00:11
fsmithredhard drive failing?00:11
novemberrainand never interfered with upgrades00:11
novemberrainnow you're really cheering me up!00:12
fsmithredso, what version of gnupg you got?00:13
novemberraingnupg: Installed: 1.4.18-7+deb8u5 Candidate: 2.1.18-8~deb9u200:13
fsmithredok, you have the version from jessie-security, and it wants to install the ascii verion. That's good.00:14
novemberrainpython-apt: Installed: Candidate: 1.4.0~beta300:15
fsmithredyeah, maybe try 'apt-get install python-apt=1.4.0~beta3'00:16
fsmithredother things to try: 'apt-get upgrade' before doing dist-upgrade; aptitude safe-upgrade and aptitude full-upgrade may give you more options.00:20
fsmithredback in a few minutes00:20
novemberrainok, i had to remove the other 2 offending packages but now it looks like it's gonna work00:23
novemberraini mean, installing python-apt=1.4.0~beta3 - upgrading and installing a total of 200MB packages00:24
novemberrainhmm, but it also wants a number of packages removed, including libreoffice; i'd rather keep it00:25
fsmithredmaybe you need to also install the exact versions of the packages you removed00:27
fsmithredwhat were they?00:28
novemberrainthere's a ton of packages for upgrade, install and removal00:28
novemberrainit wants aptitude removed00:29
fsmithredwhat were the other two offending packages you removed?00:33
novemberrainis it safer to go with "apt-get upgrade" (non-dist), or "aptitude safe-upgrade"?00:34
novemberraineric & openscad00:34
fsmithredthey are roughly the same00:34
fsmithredok, hang on00:34
novemberrainit was "libstdc++6 : Breaks: openscad (<= 2014.03+dfsg-1+b1) but 2014.03+dfsg-1 is to be installed"00:35
novemberrainand "python3-pyqt4 : Breaks: eric (< 6.0~) but 5.4.5-1 is to be installed"00:35
novemberrainit seems that apt-get upgrade will work00:36
novemberrainwith a lot of packages to upgrade and a lot of packages held back - this is fine, right?00:36
fsmithredtry that first00:37
refracta_noobso every time I come across something I need to do that requires root permissions, am I going to have to write a polkit rule for it?00:46
refracta_nooband why shouldn't I write a rule to let me do anything ever? it's not really helping me do anything at this point, it's getting in my way if anything.00:47
SuicideJunkieLooking at the new Ascii installer.  Got a devuan banner at the top and green progress bars now.00:51
LunaLovegoodIs it normal that "apt-get install openssh-server" wants to install libsystemd0 ?00:51
SuicideJunkieFor the person who was asking last night, in the manual paritioning menu, there's a separate option for delete data, and delete the partition entirely when you select it.00:51
SuicideJunkieNot sure where the problem is, but I'm not actually going to press delete myself since I want those partitions to stay :)00:52
refracta_noob LunaLovegood: see bottom section of that page00:53
golinuxLunaLovegood: Or this
fsmithredrefracta_noob, su, then run whatever commands or apps you need from that terminal00:58
refracta_noobit won't open that way unfortunately, complains that "Connection refused"..."cannot open display: 0"01:00
refracta_noobgksu doesn't work either01:01
refracta_noobah, setting DISPLAY=:0 made it work... but this is unusual can I make this act more predictable? I'd like to roll this install into a refracta image eventually01:03
fsmithredI don't know what the problem is01:04
fsmithredrefracta_noob, what did you install and how did you install (the system)?01:38
SuicideJunkieSo, I'm installing a fresh machine with Ascii, and looking at this nvidia-driver package that puts up a page of problems.03:06
SuicideJunkieAnd nvidia-driver-bin seems to claim it is a dependency of itself?  That's wacky.03:07
refracta_noobah... ok running lxpolkit solved my thunar polkit woes I think03:08
refracta_noobbut I wonder if I shouldn't say something to the Refracta project ppl? since it doesn't appear lxpolkit is installed by default acutally03:09
fsmithredyou just did03:09
refracta_nooboh cool03:10
fsmithredyou're running the ascii beta2 ?03:10
fsmithredthe one with lxdm03:10
fsmithredand xfce03:10
refracta_noobSuicideJunkie: is the package for a proprietary version of the driver? why not use the one on nvidia's site in that case?03:11
refracta_nooblooks like the xfce one03:12
fsmithredso what can you do now that you couldn't before adding lxpolkit?03:13
refracta_noobi used this iso: refracta8.3_xfce_amd64-20170305_0250.iso03:13
fsmithredI haven't tried it with xfce03:13
refracta_noobi can mount the internal drives in my pc from thunar now03:13
fsmithredthere's no gvfs in that one. That's why you don't get drive icons on the dekstop.03:13
refracta_nooboh no I got the icons I just wasn't "authorized to perform this action" or something03:14
refracta_noobI guess there was no agent running which is why i got the message about no cookie for the session03:14
fsmithredwhat about a trash icon?03:14
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: aside from the obvious lack of interest in making a decent package, they also might have problems resolving conflicts with mesa stuff without help03:14
refracta_noobyep and it works fsmithred03:14
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: (that might get rid of some of that page of complaints)03:15
fsmithredyou got trash with lxpolkit, or you had it before?03:15
SuicideJunkieIt is the metapackage that looked pretty top level and plausible.03:15
refracta_noobI think I had it before I'll try logging out eventually and see if I need to just add lxpolkit to startup programs03:15
fsmithredis libsystemd0 installed??03:16
SuicideJunkieI was hoping to use a package manager'ed driver rather than the binary, as the discussion was going last week.03:16
refracta_noobI plan on rolling a TWM version of this iso for myself and I'll probably start lxpolkit with .xsession for that03:16
SuicideJunkieI've just installed fresh from the dvd iso, and added non-free to the repos, so there may be some stuff I'm missing there.03:18
fsmithredgood luck playing with the polkit stuff. You may be in for some surprises.03:19
fsmithredum, I'm thinking of ascii.03:19
refracta_noobI think I may not have any more problems with it now that lxpolkit is running03:19
fsmithredyou're probably safe in jessie. But in ascii, it's kind of a mine field.03:19
fsmithredif you install one desktop environment with its task package, you're safe03:20
refracta_noobwell I'll probably end up installing it and see if I can help at all03:20
fsmithredif you start mixing stuff from different desktops, there can be some conflicts or pieces that don't work, like mounting drives or shutdown/reboot buttons03:21
SuicideJunkiePerhaps I should go back to Jessie and see how that rolls?  I was under the impression that the stable=ASCII meant it was more settled, but video drivers are some of the least mellow things.03:22
refracta_noobhm. I just use TWM and Thunar. works pretty well for me so far on BSDs and the Big 703:22
fsmithredsimple is good03:23
refracta_noobSuicideJunkie: I'm using the nvidia installer from the website, latest stable branch for my GTX960, on Jessie and it's really great right now03:23
SuicideJunkiev637.44 or such?03:24
refracta_noobI found a github version of TWM that applies Eeri Kask's patches which add Xft support and compositing... it's really nice. I'm going to try and use it for practice with d1h.03:24
SuicideJunkieThat's what I was using just before.03:25
SuicideJunkieOoop.  Flip and swap those numbers, yeah03:26
Leanderwhat kind of problem do you have by the way?03:26
SuicideJunkieLeander: me?03:26
refracta_noobthat reminds me, will I be able to preserve my nvidia driver install, xorg.conf, and the nouveau blacklisting, with refracta2usb or would that be more a job for refracta snapshot?03:27
SuicideJunkieJust ran the ASCII installer, and was trying to install the nvidia driver package thru synaptic03:28
LeanderI have an ascii machine with nvidia-driver at work, but I upgraded from jessie, so it's not exactly your case03:28
SuicideJunkieWas previously having trouble building kodi, and figured it might help03:29
Leanderok, but then what happens with synaptic? do you get error messages?03:32
SuicideJunkieLong list of dependencies that won't or can't be installed03:32
fsmithredyes, your nvidia driver will be copied into the snapshot03:35
SuicideJunkiemarking nvidia-driver: nvidia-installer-cleanup is not installable, nvidia-settings is not installable, nvidia-support is not installable.03:35
refracta_noobfsmithred: nice, thanks03:36
Jjp137are you missing contrib?03:36
Jjp137in your sources.list, that is03:36
LeanderSuicideJunkie ^03:39
SuicideJunkieVery probable actually03:39
SuicideJunkieAlso I don't understand why nvidia-driver-bins reports itself as a conflict :)03:42
SuicideJunkieBut that was the thing I was missing it seems.03:42
Leanderit's 2018 and the package manager still can't tell you clearly "I can't find this package"03:43
SuicideJunkieOn a completely different note?  Apparently ASCII + cinnamon comes with the app-search menu thing baked in, and so far it looks like it is sufficiently searchy for parents and sporty-bro03:44
SuicideJunkieI think I prefer the LX styling, but I'll be using it too for deduplication of tech support tasks. :)03:45
SuicideJunkieAh, beautiful volumetric clouds around kerbin with no lag.03:57
SuicideJunkieThanks a bunch again!03:58
novemberrainmy upgrade went mostly fine; processing monkeysphere returned an error and it looks like dbus wants me to reboot04:17
novemberraini guess i'll try to dist-upgrade after the reboot04:18
novemberrainfsmithred, thank you for your help!04:19
underd0gmorning guys07:16
underd0gI have a most unusual problem07:17
underd0gI just realised my guake is not showing users as logged in07:17
underd0gso , basically "w" or "who" shows nobody , as if I am not logged in07:18
underd0glike , I am a ghost in my own shell :D07:19
underd0gnow I'll have to check my other systems to see if this is devuan-specific07:19
aitortoday i'm finishing the code of the netstatus icon for simple-netaid11:17
aitorit's working fine11:17
aitorwitten in c and using code taken from the LxDE project, at the same taken from the applet gnome211:18
aitori reduced the code a lot just for ours needs11:19
aitorit's working pretty fine11:19
aitorit gives te following data:11:20
aitor- The names of the devices (renamed or not) saying if thay are wired or wireless11:21
filipdevuanhey somebody here sent me a link last week to the topic where guy writes about secure e-mail selling your data to other companies, what link was it lol11:21
filipdevuanill find it11:21
aitor- In the case of a wired connection says if the cables is plugged or unplugged (the code doesn't depend neither on ifplugd nor on devplug)11:22
aitor- The status of the connection, giving also the IP Address, the Broadcast, the Netmask, etc...11:24
aitorthe code doesn't depend on ifupdown11:24
aitortime to coffee, see you :)11:24
aitorfilipdevuan: somebody uses a protonmail account here... chillfan, maybe?11:26
filipdevuansomebody said here they sell your data to other companies11:26
filipdevuanfound it :)11:26
xrogaanmight be fud15:47
ivanshmakovCuriously, where’s the Devuan BTS? (Is there?)15:50
ivanshmakovOh, got it, nevermind.15:53
ivanshmakovAnd one more question: ‘Devuan 2.0 ASCII is available for i386’ – does i386 here mean i686 /or/ i586?15:57
gnarfaceit would be the same as debian, probably15:59
ivanshmakovgnarface: Debian moved to i686 with Stretch. Unfortunately (for me), I still have the hardware that I’d like to run GNU/Linux on /which/ is i586.16:02
gnarfaceivanshmakov: i think you may only need to rebuild the kernel16:04
ivanshmakovgnarface: They’ve changed the GCC to emit i686 code by default along the way, so that won’t work, alas.16:05
ivanshmakovI don’t need thousands of packages (little sense in running KDE or Firefox on i586), but I guess I’m going to make my own limited port at some point.16:07
ivanshmakovOther than that, I hope to explore GNU/Linux on ARM in the forthcoming months. With all the Intel ME / AMD PSP / AMD AGASA business and such going on, amd64 seems to grow less comfortable a platform by the day.16:10
refracta_noobivanshmakov: I've used a Rockchip based TV stick pretty comfortably as a PC/X thin client. Not bad tbh.16:28
ivanshmakovrefracta_noob: Does it require non-free software (or firmware)? Frankly, I’ve been looking at the things listed at; particularly Olinuxino. (OSHW, too.)16:40
refracta_noobThere's usually a gpu blob but I think there's official free support of Mali400 GPUs which are super common on lots of ARM boards16:58
refracta_noobin the case of Rockchip, there's this:
refracta_noobwait it might not be truly "free"17:01
refracta_noob(the Mali support)17:01
EHeMOnce systemd is fully ripped out, next thing should be spreading the libtool love, shrinking the number of libraries *depended* upon (sure, can still be suggested or recommended, but making them non-required should shrink the minimum distribution greatly).17:23
KatolaZEHeM: you are welcome to help17:47
KatolaZwishing is cheap :)17:48
lall-partially unrelated.. just was thinking which distros has no systemd. does gentoo has systemd now ? i remember it used to use openrc17:53
lall-it was slackware, gentoo (and now devuan)17:54
lall-but not sure if the former 2 sold out or what17:54
lall-good resource. ok gentoo can be configured, slackware don't have it at all.18:06
lall-it's still mind blowing to me how that abomination got wide spread adoption like that. surely has been discussed many times but still.. mind blowing.18:09
KatolaZlall-: get over it18:12
KatolaZand move on :)18:12
lall-nah, i got over it.. just thinking out loud. i even know how it creeped in into everything. there was a good article about redhat and how they wanted this for reasons that are microsoft-esque18:14
lall-but it's the others.. that jumped on it. if this stuff was more in mainstream, there would be conspiracy theories floating about.18:20
ivanshmakovKatolaZ: Re. ‘are open source (accessible source code available for the content of the distributed IMG or ISO)’: that /doesn’t/ quite match what The Open Source Definition ( says. (AIUI, FSF doesn’t like the term for exactly this kind of confusion it brings.)18:32
KatolaZivanshmakov: uh?18:37
KatolaZwhat are you talking about?18:37
ivanshmakovKatolaZ: The second criterion at the top of
KatolaZivanshmakov: I am not responsible for that page18:45
KatolaZlall- asked for a list of linux distros without systemd18:45
KatolaZthat page have quite a few18:45
lall-actually.. i know there's a lot, but i'm thinking more in terms of distros that you can actually provision on servers, and have up2date packages etc.18:45
lall-tbh, never used slackware on servers. or at home.18:46
ivanshmakovKatolaZ: I wasn’t implying you’re like ‘responsible’ responsible. Still, you /obviously/ do know about it, and it didn’t seem too big a stretch to guess that you may know the people behind it, to whom you may point out the issue. (And it’s a wiki, too.)18:48
lall-and tbh, things like "cucumber linux" .. i don't take it seriously enough to even consider using it on a production system18:49
lall-and that list is full of examples such as that.18:49
lall-which is why i singled out slackware and gentoo18:50
lall-i can already see faces of my clients with whom i work.. after telling them to use cucumber linux as their main server OS.18:52
lall-this was btw the coolest 'distro' i ever used on a router ... it was an crappy old pentium 486 with only a floppy disk drive.. that i converted into a router that ran this distro that had wvdial on it, and used it during the 33.6k modem times.18:56
lall-to share internet onto 2 other computers i had at home18:56
lall-i kinda admired it back then, in early 2000s.. live linux on a 1.4 mB floppy. never mind now.. but that's history. nobody in their right mind would even consider it anymore.18:59
KatolaZlall-: you have devuan now19:00
KatolaZor the name is too funny for your clients? :D19:00
lall-heh.. depends how you pronounce it :) but don't underestimate managements shallowness and affinity toward 'how something looks like'19:02
lall-so bcuz of that you have companies that pack some crap in and name it nicely, put a logo on it.. market it.. and everybody jumps on it. like RHEL.19:04
lall-and trust me, if i say to some of my clients Red Hat Enterprise Linux and Cucumber Linux .. guess which one they going to go for ?19:04
lall-not just me, i'm just talking out of my experience .. i'm sure many people dealt with non techy management here, and cringed how shallow these people are.19:06
lall-great example is gimp. this one time i suggested to some guy to use gimp .. to do some stuff on some images. man.. people that were there started talking about pulp fiction and that guy .. that lived in Zeds chest19:08
lall-and it was kinda occuring joke from that time. every time they had to do stuff on images, they said "just gimp it".19:09
lall-with a humorous tone.19:09
lall-unlije "photoshop it"19:09
lall-which was something "serious" people do.19:10
Guphello all! i've just followed this and all seems to have gone well, however apt is listing a lot of packages it wants to autoremove:
Gupa few of these I'm pretty sure I want, like vlc, arduino19:15
Gupi've had similar before when moving between dist releases and autoremoved loads of packages I actually wanted19:16
Gupany ideas what have i done wrong and how can i fix it?19:16
lall-i'm not 100% sure, i don't use devuan yet, but i do use deb based distros ... and it seems like you removed somehow some package that all those depend on it. aptitude keep-all will 'fix it' but not really. more like mark all the packages as not for removal.. in which case you might have some packages that you really don't need. but in any case, i would think that's an effect of a bigger problem. you removed something you shouldn't have19:20
lall-the underlying problem would still be there, but you can try .. dpkg --purge vlc, and then apt-get install vlc .. in which case it will install that missing package19:22
lall-vlc being a package that share a dependency with other packages that autoremove wants to delete.19:22
Gupyeah i'd suspected similar, but i couldnt work out which meta package i'd removed!19:23
Gupwonder if there is a way to tell why they are marked for removal?19:24
Gupthis is after a dist-upgrade from jessie to ascii, so you kind of expect a lot of package removals19:24
Gupbut i've been burned by this before, hence reading the list a bit closer ;)19:24
Gupas you say, i could just keep-all, i do like a lean system though19:25
lall-you "upgraded" from debian jessie to devuan ?19:25
Gupna, devuan jessie to ascii19:25
g4570napt-get install vlc-bin will mark it as installed manually, I can do this with other packages that I want to keep and try updating again19:25
lall-and the system starts and works normally ? after reboot and such ?19:26
Gupg4570n, i did this last time but obviously missed something critical as system didnt boot after the autoremove19:27
Guplall-, yeah reboots fine atm19:27
Gupthere are a lot of libs there i dont recognise19:27
lall-what does apt-get -f install say ?19:27
Gupnothing to install19:28
lall-and your sources.list are ok ? plus you did apt-get update after19:29
lall-what's your sources.list19:29
Gupyeah i followed
Gupexcept i'm using auto.mirror.devuan.org19:30
ivanshmakovGup: First of all, I’d suggest checking if the $ apt-mark showmanual output has all the packages you do want installed.19:30
lall-you should paste your sources.list19:31
lall-(complete, not just what you put in)19:31
ivanshmakovIf there’s anything missing, you could add it with # apt-mark manual -- packagename(s), – or with # apt-get install (like g4570n suggested.)19:33
Guplall-, it literally is just those 4, i've pasted at the top of anyway19:33
ivanshmakovGup: JFTR, I don’t seem to be able to read that page with Lynx.19:33
Gupivanshmakov, g4570n, i think thats the best bet, it doesnt look like too much missing19:35
Gupi've got good backup so hopefully i dont break anything19:36
Gupi've done similar before and had to add back things like the xserver and slim! :/19:36
Gupthat time i missed something critical and it wouldnt boot19:36
Gupthis time they are not listed so maybe its not so difficult19:37
Gupivanshmakov, thanks for the compatibility tip, there is probably some JS on that page ;)19:37
lall-tbh last time i had those kind of problems it was redhat 4.2 or something, rpm hell kind of a thing. so i'm quite curious to know what's causing yours.19:38
lall-because apt-get was quite resilliant to that kind of stuff.19:39
ivanshmakovGup: I don’t mind about /some/ JS (like on, say, Wikipedia); the problem is that there seem to be /no payload/ on that page. (I presume it gets loaded with JS.)19:39
Guplall-, me too cos i'm usually quite careful!19:41
g4570nGup: some alternatives to paste: and https://transfer.sh19:42
Gupivanshmakov, does Lynx execute any js? but yeah, some content would have been good :/ its an etherpad instance19:43
ivanshmakovGup: Nope, it doesn’t.19:43
Gupwas just about to ask what the latest pastebin was19:43
ivanshmakovFWIW, I’ve succesfully used and with Lynx – including posting from the latter.19:45 looks awesome :)19:47
Gupit doesnt look like anything other than vlc and arduino then , this is whats left
Gupi dont recognise any of that, except i think i use evince, so i'm going to remove and reboot20:08
Gupwell, still boots :) i can install anything else i come across, thanks20:30
saciozhi all20:51
golinuxChuangTzu: You wike up!23:22
golinuxwoke really23:22
ChuangTzulol...sat down, watched a little television after dinner and passed out...23:29
golinuxShall we continue?23:29

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