freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-08-17

HurgotronIn ascii, I'm missing the persistent-net.rules file in /etc/udev/rules.d - it doesn't get autogenerated like I was used to, and manually generating it has no effect. Some helpful hint would be appreciated.16:00
gnarfaceHurgotron: you trying to run without udev?16:02
gnarfaceyou need udev or eudev or vdev or some other such alternative for this to work16:03
Hurgotrongot eudev...16:04
gnarfaceis it running?16:07
Hurgotronudevd --daemon    is running.16:10
gnarfaceyou're sure there's an ethernet device attached, right?16:12
Hurgotronwell I currently have eth0 - eth5.   I just added a card with 4 interfaces and was not happy with the sequence, so I wanted to change it16:13
gnarfacedid it used to work?16:17
gnarfacedo you have the /lib/udev/write_net_rules binary?16:18
gnarfacei can't point to any instances where this stopped working for me that i know of16:19
gnarfaceit suggests something else has gone wrong with your install...16:19
Hurgotronthe binary is there. And I didn't have it working on ascii yet, this is my first ascii box. The old Devuan has 70-persistent-net.rules16:19
gnarfaceare you configuring the network with /etc/network/interfaces, or are you using a gui tool?16:20
Hurgotronwith /etc/network/interfaces16:21
gnarfaceyou using "auto" or "allow-hotplug" ?16:21
gnarfacewhat does dmesg say about the ethernet devices?16:22
gnarfaceit's possible you're missing drivers or firmware16:22
HurgotronI'm able to use the interfaces.16:24
Hurgotronah. At least I see why the manually created file had no effect...16:25
Hurgotronudevd[468]: Error changing net interface name eth3 to eth1: File exists [etc.]16:25
gnarfaceoh, that's evidence16:25
Hurgotronbut - I'm used to that working...16:25
gnarfacecould something you changed in the startup process be manually configuring the network before udevd can get to it?16:25
Hurgotronnot really. initrd probably, but I regenerated that one too16:26
gnarfacehad you changed any boot order stuff?16:26
gnarfacemoved a dhcp client up perhaps?16:27
gnarfacemaybe too far up?16:27
HurgotronNo, didn't mess with boot order.16:27
gnarfacewhat about your kernel command-line?  i'm running out of ideas...16:28
gnarfaceusually misbehavior like this is related to missing packages, missing hardware support, cavalier distro-mixing16:29
gnarfacesomething of that sort16:29
HurgotronCommand line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.113-vs2.3.9.7 root=/dev/mapper/vg0-debroot ro quiet16:29
Hurgotronok, I have a slightly nonstandard kernel. Trying.16:29
gnarfacewell if you can use the devices in spite udev tripping up naming them, then i wouldn't expect it to be the kernel... but i don't know for sure you couldn't have done something to upset it16:30
gnarfacei think there IS a dhcp client embedded in the kernel now that could in theory at least be getting triggered too early somehow...16:31
gnarfaceit's not a problem you should be having with a stock kernel16:31
gnarfacefrankly it's not a problem you should be having with that vserver kernel patch either, unless you did something else to it16:32
Hurgotronnow running stock 4.9.0-7-amd64, I moved the net.rules file away. Nothign autogenerated. Trying to trigger generation manually.16:33
gnarfacebut the network is already up?16:33
Hurgotronwell, I do have dhcp running to connect to the machine...16:33
gnarfaceit does seem at least possible it could be a culprit, if it's taking control of the ethernet devices before udev can even get to them16:34
gnarfacebut if /etc/network/interfaces has static configs for all the network devices then that shouldn't happen16:35
Hurgotroneasy to check16:35
Hurgotrongood one!16:40
Hurgotronwithout dhcp, I'm getting an autogenerated 70-persistent-net.rules16:40
Hurgotronnow modifying to my taste.16:41
gnarfacedo you know if it's that kernel dhcp client or if it's a userspace one?16:41
gnarfacei think something is still wrong if it's preempting udevd16:41
gnarfacebut i don't really know for sure16:41
gnarfacethe important part is you can get it working16:42
Hurgotronuserspace. isc-dhcp, I had problems with that one before, requesting Ip twice etc. Maybe the same issue?16:42
gnarfacemaybe, but not an issue i've seen16:43
gnarfacethat's actually usually caused by a misconfigured dhcp server16:43
gnarfaceor... two of them16:43
HurgotronI consider the important part to fix the underlying issue, so that others don#t waste time on it...16:43
gnarfacewarring dhcp servers on the lan16:43
gnarfaceyou might want to check your network and make sure the dhcp server you know about is the only one16:44
gnarfacei think there's cases where certain versions of windows might by default provide a fully operational wifi gateway with dhcp ...16:44
gnarfaceit *shouldn't* be requesting an ip twice16:45
gnarfaceit's far more likely it's requesting an ip *once* and getting two responses16:45
Hurgotronplease check the chanlogs for DHCPDECLINE. Definetely no server issue - it works with eberything else and before upgrading to ascii16:45
Hurgotronsince this is the second time I have issues with dhcp causing weird issues, there might be some common problem.16:47
gnarfacei don't have any access to channel logs that you do not also have16:47
HurgotronI just meant, if you want to know what i was talkign about :)16:48
Hurgotronme and unmy had the problem that ascii was requesting an IP from the DHCP server, then giving DHCPDECLINE, requesting a new one. I somethines had both IPs set after that.16:49
gnarfaceit could be a bug but it still sounds like a misconfiguration to me16:50
Hurgotronand my issue is not solved. machine still can't rename the interfaces16:50
gnarfacelike the first one it gets has an invalid network mask or something16:50
gnarfacebut then maybe after the second one changes it, the first one becomes valid again16:50
Hurgotronit went away after changing allow-hotplug to auto.16:51
gnarfaceallow-hotplug causes other issues for me too16:53
gnarfacei can't say i've tested it extensively16:54
gnarfacepersonally i think it was a mistake to make it the default even for non-removable devices16:55
unmythere have to be some conflict between network service - isc client and sysvinit17:00
unmyudhcpc working just fine17:01
Hurgotronok, I'm now renaming my ethernet interfaces to lan0 .. lan5 in order to avoid the eth renaming collisions. *sigh*17:17
Hurgotronnot what I wanted, but... I can work with it.17:17
gnarfaceHurgotron, unmy: which DHCP server are you using?17:37
gnarfaceyou may be right but i still suspect there is another variable either way17:38
gnarfaceor more people would be seeing this17:38
gnarfacethat said, there are a few DHCP clients available in the repo17:39
gnarfacethey're probably all worth comparing17:39
gnarfacebut if i had to bet money on one behaving the most correctly according to the specifications it would be the ISC one17:39
gnarfacei've seen *all kinds of* whack misbehavior coming from various DHCP servers however, built into various plastic box routers and a couple windows boxes...17:40
gnarfaceand more than once, a rogue DHCP server that avoided 2 double-checks for rogue DHCP servers17:41
unmygnarface, dnsmasq from openwrt updated to latest every month17:43
unmyand no windows in my lan17:43
unmyjust other "smart" devices and windows just from time to time to fix somebody laptop/pc17:43
FjalarHas anybody here ver installed LTSP? Running into trouble with ltsp-build-client on Ascii.20:28
Pr0metheusany suggestion for a browser? Firefox has no sound after removing pulseaudio, Web hangs on videos,...20:56
debdogPr0metheus: just as a hint: there's apulse available, a "PulseAudio emulation for ALSA"21:01
gnarfacePr0metheus: doesn't firefox-esr behave better?21:06
Pr0metheusgnarface: the new viersion of firefox works very fast, but without pulseaudio it has no sound, i think I'll try debdog's suggestion and see if it can do anything21:07
gnarfaceoh, i guess the new firefox-esr is broke again too21:08
gnarfaceso nevermind21:09
debdoghmm, hasn't there been an attempt for a browser comparison page somewhere? cannot find it atm21:11
Pr0metheusdebdog well most pages mention chrome firefox web and midori (the last I have never used) and some other forks iceweasel21:12
debdogusually I use (Contributed builds, Linux/x86_64 (some of FF's plugins work with it))21:19
debdogother's I've heard of:
Pr0metheusdebdog thanks for the suggestions, I'll give palemoon a try21:28
gnarfacewe need a proliferation of firefox forks21:30
gnarfaceor just... not even firefox forks.  just a bunch more browsers based on the gecko renderer21:31
debdogI wonder where' the catch is with this browser it sounds all too good?21:48
gnarfaceprobably like midori it's just missing a complete CSS or JavaScript implementation21:50
golinuxdebdog: The UI is proprietary.21:50
golinuxEverything else is open.21:51
Pr0metheusdebdog I also read telemetry cannot be disabled21:51
golinuxIt is very slick but troublesome that it takes so long to load21:52
zdzichuthis is basically chromium fork by people from opera browser21:52
golinuxI occasionally use it for testing but not as a daily driver.21:52
Pr0metheusis anyone on ceres? is eudev updgrade working for you?21:57
zdzichuheh, the BSD people knows it, too: Benno Rice: The Tragedy of systemd -- BSDCan 201821:58
gnarfaceare you getting a package conflict about some polkit stuff when trying to switch to it, Pr0metheus?22:00
gnarfaceor maybe it wants to remove udev and your running kernel along with it?22:00
Pr0metheusno, it fails to install eudev22:01
Pr0metheusthere is an inconsistency with the libraries22:01
Hurgotronzdzichu: That piece is rather positive about systemd. But misrepresenting the facts, IMO.22:01
gnarfacePr0metheus: that's what i mean22:02
HurgotronI wanted to write a repyl, but lack the time currently.22:02
gnarfacePr0metheus: i think that's the package conflict i'm referring to22:02
golinuxI think that the pkgs in ceres are older than the ones in ascii22:02
Pr0metheusoh great:P22:02
Pr0metheusI downgraded after the upgrade because eudev got broken22:02
golinuxThat's going to change with beowulf.  All development will go into unstabe .22:03
golinuxAnd work it's way to where it needs to go.22:03
gnarfacethe eudev package in ceres seems to be newer22:03
zdzichuHurgotron: haven't seen it yet; you mean ?22:03
gnarfacemaybe some polkit stuff isn't tho0ugh...22:03
Pr0metheusbetter to save manpower22:03
golinuxYou can compare version #s here
golinuxpick the most recent one wherever that is22:04
gnarfacei'm still using regular udev on ceres, but there were problems switching to it in ascii that required weird workarounds in some cases (rm /etc/init.d/udev)22:04
Pr0metheusthe packaged version though seem to require previous versions of libeudev22:04
Pr0metheusI believe eudev on ceres works for me (the previous version)22:05
golinuxThen downgrade22:07
golinuxWork will start after the August holidays in EU.  Nothing is happening atm.22:07
Hurgotronzdzichu: yes, that's the one.22:08
Pr0metheusyeap I know I am in EU:P22:08
golinuxIt's a bit frustrating for those of us who don't turn off.22:09
Pr0metheusdebdog: apulse: Firefox 58 tabs crashing when trying to play audio ...22:13
Pr0metheusare you guys using synaptic or anything else instead?22:14
gnarfacewait you got apulse from the repo? i thought it wasn't in there...22:18
gnarfaceit's working for me in firefox 6022:18
gnarfacebut it's a copy i built myself22:18
Pr0metheusyeap it's there but I didn't download it, just read the apulse site22:20
gnarfacewait, how do you have firefox 58 in ceres right now anyway?22:21
gnarfaceyou should have firefox-esr 60.1.0esr-2 and firefox 61.0.1-122:22
Pr0metheusI don't I assumed since apulse doesn't work with Firefox 58 because some function calls are not possible, it wouldn't for 60...22:22
Pr0metheusok let me try to install it, I hope it doesn't break alsa:P22:22
gnarfacemy apulse build is apparently from january and it's working fine22:22
gnarfaceso if you're having problems it might be with the newer apulse version22:23
Pr0metheushm, will try to reboot, no sound in firefox yet22:24
gnarfaceyou've got sound with other stuff, right?  you checked speaker-test, right?22:24
Pr0metheusyeap other things work22:24
gnarfacehmm. weird22:24
Pr0metheuslet me reboot22:24
Pr0metheusnope apulse doesn't work for me22:31
gnarfacedoes it just not work with firefox?22:32
gnarfaceor does it not work with anything?22:32
Pr0metheustried also the xfce plugin for pulse audio and it didn't work, was waiting to connect22:32
gnarfaceyou could try an older apulse build maybe?22:38
gnarfacei'm curious if the version i have would work for you22:39
Pr0metheusdid you build a deb?22:39
Pr0metheusyou can send it over and I can try22:40
gnarfacei wouldn't, because i'm not sure it is anonymous22:43
gnarfacebut it appears i didn't keep a copy anyway22:43
gnarfacethe best i'd be able to do is send you a tarball of files22:43
gnarfaceminus the package22:43
Pr0metheusit's ok22:45
gnarfacehow'd you build yours?22:46
golinuxPr0metheus: Search the forum and dng for past discussion og apulse.22:46
golinuxog > of22:46
golinuxI know that people have used it successfully in the past.22:46
Pr0metheuspalemoon works with sound22:48
Pr0metheusand seems to work fast22:48
Pr0metheusone funny thing is that after moving from stretch to ceres, in an attempt to fix some issues I removed and reinstalled packages. That resulted in removing all Devuan icons I used for the XFCE menus:P22:53
Pr0metheusbye bye firefox, pulseaudio, systemd, virtualbox, gnome-most but it seems that seahorse is irreplaceable23:17

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