freenode/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-09-23

gnarfacefree_rabbit: can you elaborate?00:14
free_rabbitoh hey! =)00:17
free_rabbityes i will!00:17
free_rabbitthe devuan installer boots and shows up00:18
free_rabbitbut loading the installer components from cdrom failed.00:18
free_rabbitwhen checking the cdrom i pressed alt+f4 to see whats happen, there is many output and i can not write it all down... it fades to fast, but it says first that the chekcsum can not be00:18
free_rabbit verified and second taht it can not find the Packages.gz or /cdrom/foo/pool/DEBIAN/main, but all of these files are there, i have checked this in the shell.00:18
gnarfacedid you try to checksum the file before writing it to the USB key?  this error is usually caused by a corrupted download00:18
gnarfacethere should be two checksums and a gpg signature you can use to triple-verify the thing00:19
free_rabbitgnarface: yes of course i do that everytime i download something that has the possibility to check it.00:24
gnarfacehmm.  strange00:25
free_rabbit4 devuan downloads im doing this: first time i download the key, import it to my keychain. then downloading the file.iso and its SHAfoo and the SHAfoo.asc00:25
gnarfaceand this always worked before?00:26
free_rabbiti run gpg --verify shafoo.asc shafoo00:26
free_rabbitand then shafoo SHAfoo (for getting an ok for the iso file)00:27
free_rabbitgnarface: yes00:27
free_rabbitbut probably there is more i need to tell, i do not know if it is important00:27
gnarfacecan you show me the exact command that you used to write the iso to the USB key?00:27
free_rabbitim using dd00:28
gnarfacedid you specify a block size greater than 1MB?00:28
gnarfaceare you sure?00:28
free_rabbitbut wait i want to tell u something otehr00:28
free_rabbityes im sure ;)00:28
gnarfaceyes, please include anything weird about the machine or the install process00:28
free_rabbiti have 4 partitions on that usb device each partition contains something bootable00:29
gnarfacehmm. you're not the first person to do that with an installer00:29
gnarfaceso that's not too weird00:29
gnarfacewhich installer are you actually using?  a netinstall iso or one of the live images?00:30
free_rabbit1 partition has devuan 32-bit minimla live, one has the same in 64-bit, one has the 32-bit installer and one is empty at the moment (i will dd 64--bit installer there)00:30
free_rabbitfor installing i always use the iso, i nver would do a net installer.00:30
free_rabbitmy machine: lenovo thinkpad t60 with librebooot00:31
gnarfacethat's not a clear enough distinction i guess.  you mean you're using one of the cd/dvd images, not the netinstall image OR live images?00:31
free_rabbiti used this:
free_rabbitand dd it to the usb stick00:32
fsmithredto the whole device, or to a partition?00:32
free_rabbita partition the whole device where a waste of storage space...00:33
free_rabbiti have done this the first time, i had always used a burned to dvd iso before...00:33
free_rabbit*i have always used...?00:33
fsmithredit's an isohybrid image, which is meant to occupy the whole device and act like a CDROM00:33
free_rabbitwhat does that mean?00:34
gnarfacefsmithred: i thought you could use it from a partition evena local harddrive partition though?00:34
fsmithredyeah, there's a way to do that if you copy the iso file or its contents00:34
fsmithredI don't know about dd to partition00:34
gnarfaceoh hmm.  good point00:34
fsmithredfree_rabbit, how do you boot it?00:35
free_rabbitso i should dd the iso to the whole usb device then?00:35
gnarfacefree_rabbit: he might be right.  if that's the only thing weird about your install attempt, try it as the whole device00:35
fsmithredyou will wipe all your partitions if you do that00:35
free_rabbitfsmithred: i booted it with some grub commandline commands00:35
fsmithredthe other way around it is to play with mounting and symlinks in the installer00:35
free_rabbiti know that it will wipe it when im using the whole device i know how dd works ^^00:36
fsmithredok, just wanted to make sure00:36
free_rabbitthe commandline commands are explained in here:
* free_rabbit is dding donald trump00:37
free_rabbitgnarface: yeah.. probbaly i need to test it...00:38
free_rabbitgnarface: i thought it would be cool to have several live images and installer on one device...00:39
free_rabbiti dd it that will take some time...00:44
free_rabbitgnarface: you ask me: 00:28 < gnarface> did you specify a block size greater than 1MB?00:44
free_rabbitis the dd default greater then this?00:45
fsmithredI think the default is 1 byte00:48
free_rabbitthe default block size i ment...00:48
free_rabbitfsmithred: ah ok =)00:48
free_rabbiti was asking because its display how fast it writes but that has nothing to do with the block size00:50
gnarfaceno, fsmithred free_rabbit the default is 512b which should be safe for everything00:50
free_rabbitok cool thx you both, i always run it default, for everything00:52
free_rabbitok i still need some time 2gb now ^^00:53
free_rabbithow is devuan going? is the community getting bigger? more downloads then last year or something?00:54
fsmithredwe've had some new developers join us in the past year00:54
gnarfacei can't tell you anything specific but there is a steady trickle of new users00:55
fsmithredand new users, of course00:55
free_rabbitfsmithred: cool! =)00:55
free_rabbitsounds all great! hope it will getting bigger and mor people know about it!00:55
free_rabbit*get to know about it (tahts correct i think...)00:56
fsmithredI hope it will get easier instead of harder00:56
free_rabbitfsmithred: whta do you mean?00:57
fsmithredI hope we don't have to keep increasing the number of packages that we change.00:59
free_rabbitoh i see... =(01:02
free_rabbitah! dd created two partitons one vfat and one dos with the iso.. maybe that was the problem?01:10
gnarfaceah, right, that makes sense.  the hybrid-iso images are themselves partitioned in a screwy way that won't nest properly in another partition set.01:11
free_rabbitcause i did not see one of my 4 partions split into two "subpartitions"01:11
gnarfacei remember that coming up before now01:11
gnarfaceonce you know that, there should be a way to do it though by just getting the parts of the installer you need into your own partitioning scheme01:11
gnarfacenested partitions are a real thing though, if done right, so you might even be able to alter your existing top-level partitioning scheme to be compatible with the hybrid-iso01:12
free_rabbitgnarface: maybe thats to difficult for me...01:12
gnarfaceyea it might be more trouble than it is worth01:12
gnarfacebut it also would be a good learning experience01:12
free_rabbitgnarface: maybe i will come back to that "quest" after i recieved the exp from my other running projects ^^01:13
gnarfacei can't tell you off the top of my head how exactly, but it might just be as simple as copying the main partition out of the hybrid-iso image.  i don't think you really need the rest of it if you're already providing your own boot loader01:13
free_rabbitwill try now the installer again01:13
free_rabbitcool it runs! =D01:19
free_rabbitthak you very much for your help!01:19
gnarfaceno choking on cdrom verification?01:19
gnarfacethat's good01:19
free_rabbitgnarface: no! ^^01:19
gnarfacenow that i think about it more, it must be about the partition numbers.01:20
gnarfacei wonder if they could just be renumbered to work01:20
gnarfacebut once you have a working install, these types of questions quickly wane in priority01:20
fsmithredthe extra partition is probably the efi partition01:23
gnarfacei feel like i remember going through this before and someone did actually prove that it would work if you just renumber the partitions so it's coherent but i could have dreamed it01:39
gnarfacehmm. that actually might have been before efi too01:46
free_rabbitim really excited if it will run without installing grub to disk.01:55
free_rabbitoh no whats going on!01:57
free_rabbitthe 32-bit is runnign automatically every step!01:57
free_rabbithow to prevent this?01:57
free_rabbitwhen i instaleld 64-bit from a dvd in the past i have always to choose every single step manually...01:58
gnarfacefree_rabbit: you sure your enter key isn't stuck or something?02:00
gnarfacefree_rabbit: try expert mode02:00
gnarfacedid you experiment with preseeding and forget to remove the file from the image afterwards?02:01
free_rabbitgnarface: you said something! it doesnt ask me for that, i always run expert mode...02:01
free_rabbitdid i need to set expert mode before booting with the grub cli?02:02
gnarfacefree_rabbit: wait, i thought you were talking about the installer.  are you talking about an install or the installer?02:03
free_rabbitthe only kernel parameter i set was fbalse, what deactivates the frame buffer and runs only in text mode02:03
free_rabbitthe installer02:03
gnarfacethere should be a way to choose that from the installer menu without setting a kernel parameter02:04
free_rabbitit automatically selecting every single point, like configure the network, select software bla02:04
free_rabbiti have no installer menu ;)02:04
free_rabbitim booting the installer from grub with some commands02:04
free_rabbiti thin i need to specifiy it there but i dunno how.. =(02:05
gnarfacei see, so you've bypassed the iso's boot menu?02:05
free_rabbitmaybe i have to load that to... somehow02:05
free_rabbitor probably i have to...02:06
gnarfaceyea, i don't know how to make it choose a mode that way.  you're in over my head02:06
free_rabbitdo you know that "booting with grub cli thing"?02:06
free_rabbitlol i dont think iam "in over my head02:07
gnarfacei mean i know it's possible, but i would have to google the options02:07
gnarfacei don't have the proper grub commands for that memorized or anything02:07
free_rabbitwhen u in grub then run ls to see all connected devices02:07
free_rabbitthen when the sio is on sub 4example run: grub> set root='usb0'02:08
free_rabbitthen you need to figure out wherer the kernel is, for me it is in /install.368/vmlinuz02:09
free_rabbitnow you load that kernel:02:09
free_rabbitgrub> linux /path/to/kernel PARAMETERS MAYBE\_MORE\_PARAMETERS02:09
free_rabbitparameters are something like: fb=false <- this is deactivating graphical mode02:09
free_rabbitgrub> initrd /path/to/initrd02:10
free_rabbitthats next02:10
free_rabbitand then run just grub>boot02:10
free_rabbitand it takes u directly into the installing process02:10
gnarfacei see02:10
gnarfaceare there other kernels on there?02:11
free_rabbitand i think that i need to specify another paramter after the kernelpath to get the installer menu...02:11
free_rabbitmo there is only one02:11
free_rabbiti9 search 4 that paramter with brb02:12
free_rabbit i dont get it... =(02:31
free_rabbitfsmithred: are you still arround?02:31
gnarfacei'm not sure it is a kernel parameter that is supposed to set that02:33
gnarfacethe installer mode02:33
gnarfacei think disabling the framebuffer might force it to use text mode as a fallback but i don't think that's normally how it's done02:33
free_rabbitme too, but what else02:33
gnarfacewell i had assumed the installer runs as a userspace program02:33
gnarfacenot a kernel component02:34
gnarfaceso i wouldn't look in the kernel command-line for the controls02:34
free_rabbitisnt the expert installer always running as text mode?02:34
gnarfaceno there is a difference between expert mode and text mode.  the text vs gui choice does not imply expert or normal mode02:34
free_rabbitfunny, when i installed devuan (and before that debian) with expert installer i always had a text mode...02:35
gnarfacei don't remember that being the case but i could be wrong02:36
free_rabbiti have ask now at #libreboot too02:36
gnarfaceanyway i am sure you can have text mode without expert mode02:36
gnarfaceit may be that some installers only have expert mode with text mode, but there should also be a text mode for normal installs too02:36
gnarfaceif you look in the installer iso there might be a shell command or a config file that shows you how they do it02:38
gnarfaceshell script i mean*02:38
free_rabbit02:36 < gnarface> anyway i am sure you can have text mode without expert mode02:38
free_rabbityes thats what i got here02:39
free_rabbityes iam still searching...02:39
fsmithredwhat's up?02:39
free_rabbitfsmithred: how can i get into the expert installer from grub cli?02:43
fsmithredfree_rab1it, ^^^02:49
gnarfaceoh right02:51
gnarfacethe debconf priority02:51
gnarfaceyou can pass that as a kernel command-line option?02:51
gnarfacethat only works with the debian kernel i assume?02:51
fsmithrednever thought about that02:52
free_rabbitfsmithred:  i will try that ou now...02:52
free_rabbityay! works like a charm! thank u very much fsmithred ! =D02:55
gnarfacewe definitely went through this before, i just never remember the last part02:56
fsmithredI remember it because I done unnatural things with the installer isos and live isos.02:57
fsmithredyou can add a live iso to a mini.iso and it works, but if you add it to a netinstall iso, it complains that it can't find the cdrom.02:59
free_rabbitwith the vesa rom of libre boot i will probably not to have booting the installer from grub cli, but befor i use that rom i need to test some things first.03:01
free_rabbitk.. new problem03:15
free_rabbitthe installation is done. i have installed devuan on a hdd wich is connected via an usb cable03:16
free_rabbiti do not install a bootloader, because grub is on already on the flashchip with libreboot03:16
fsmithredyou can add it to the existing boot menu?03:18
free_rabbitthe installer said, that ineed to boot manually with the /vmlinuz kernel and /dev/mapper/HereMyVolumeGroup as a kernel argument03:18
free_rabbitfsmithred: ehat do you mean?03:19
fsmithredmake an entry in the existing boot menu for the new installation03:19
fsmithredI assume you can do that03:19
fsmithredI know nothing about libreboot03:19
free_rabbiti dont know... =(03:20
fsmithreddo you use grub to boot?03:20
free_rabbiti have ask at #libreboot but it seems that no one is there03:20
GoatAvengerfree_rabbit, are you following a guide?03:21
GoatAvengerseems like you are trying to get full disk encryption with libreboot working03:21
fsmithredoh, you're doing full disk encryption?03:21
free_rabbitfsmithred: yes grub is ionside the flashchip, you get it when you replacing the BIOS with libreboot03:21
* GoatAvenger doesn't know where he came in on the conversation03:22
free_rabbitGoatAvenger: yes03:22
free_rabbiti always use encryption in everything ^^03:22
* free_rabbit do the crypto rocks dance03:22
fsmithredI leave /boot unencrypted. Too slow with full-disk encryption.03:23
free_rabbit<(°o°<) (>°o°)> ^(°o°)^03:23
fsmithredso you need to tell grub about it03:24
fsmithredI hope the flagship is a debian-based distro03:24
free_rabbitGoatAvenger: i have flashed my chip with a libreboot text-rom first and now i have done this:
fsmithredin /etc/default/grub03:25
free_rabbitoh no wait iam sorry boot isnt encrypted yet!03:25
free_rabbiti first need to see if a normal encrypted devuan is booting and running03:26
free_rabbitthe hdd is connected via usb03:26
fsmithredI'm not sure it works with lvm03:26
fsmithredI know I had a lot of trouble with that, but it was beowulf and it was at the beginning of this year. Things may have changed.03:27
free_rabbitwhen this all works iam going to figure out how to configure grub cfg and set full disk encryption and then i will reflashing libreboot with a vesa-rom03:27
free_rabbiti have always encrypted everything except /boot in devuan03:27
free_rabbiti have done that with a hdd connected via sata and with a usb connected via usb ^^03:28
free_rabbitthis is the first time i use a sata via usb03:28
free_rabbiti have a sata to usb adapter03:30
fsmithredI have two of them03:30
fsmithredone of them still works03:30
free_rabbitfsmithred: two of what?03:30
fsmithredsata to usb adapter03:31
free_rabbitok =D03:31
fsmithredthey do ide too03:31
fsmithredcheap shit. don't rely on it for long.03:31
free_rabbitthats more secure i have red at, because the sata has dma and usb>2.0 not03:32
fsmithreddma is insecure?03:32
gnarfaceyea :(03:33
GoatAvengerfree_rabbit, an easy way to do things might be to tell the iso-installer to install grub to the MBR of a usb you won't use, then just copy and paste the needed grub menu entry (data) to libreboot's grub.cfg03:33
free_rabbithss and ssd are running unfree firmware03:33
fsmithredoh yeah03:33
free_rabbitfsmithred: and that firmware can then use the dma to get password or something. theres even a creepy nsa tool for that...03:34
free_rabbitGoatAvenger: wait so i need to reflash libreboot after installing an os under libreboot? o_0 that sounds a bit weird are you sure?03:35
fsmithredno, you just need to add a menuentry in flagship's grub.cfg03:36
GoatAvengerfree_rabbit, well, to the best of my understanding, if u want to modify grub on libreboot in anyway, you will need to reflash; but, yeah you can just command-line boot too03:37
free_rabbitbecause i can not editing the grub config now, or ma i wrong?03:37
GoatAvengerfree_rabbit, I just don't know grub that well, so i'd take the easy route03:37
free_rabbit03:37 < GoatAvenger> free_rabbit, well, to the best of my understanding, if u want to modify grub on libreboot in anyway, you will need to reflash;03:37
free_rabbityes thats what i thought...03:37
fsmithredI like to install grub to the non-booting disk in case it becomes the booting disk at some time in the future.03:38
free_rabbitbut i do not understand...03:38
fsmithredusually some unexpected time03:38
free_rabbitoh wait this here:
free_rabbitcryptomount -a thats what you told me fsmithred isnt it?03:40
free_rabbiti will try it now...03:41
free_rabbitSlot 0 opened03:42
free_rabbiterror: PATA passthrought failed03:43
free_rabbitcan i ignore this error?03:43
fsmithredno, I didn't say that03:44
free_rabbitset root='lvm/matrix-rootvol'03:44
free_rabbitthere is no matrix bla...03:44
free_rabbitfsmithred:  oh...03:44
fsmithredI gave you a line for /etc/default/grub03:44
free_rabbitits so frustrating... =(03:45
EHeMSeems i386 stable is falling behind in a problematic way; for amd64 libexpat1 2.2.0-2+deb9u3 is available for i386 libexpat1 2.2.0-2+deb9u2 is the latest available.03:45
fsmithredbut you don't need that line if /boot is unencrypted03:45
free_rabbitfsmithred:  it is not encrypted03:45
fsmithredEHeM, thanks. I believe someone is working on that problem.03:46
fsmithredfree_rabbit, are you using tab-completion on grub command line?03:46
free_rabbitfsmithred: yes03:48
fsmithredshould be root=/dev/mapper/vgname-lvname03:51
free_rabbitfsmithred: you mean: set root='/dev/mapper/vgname-lvname'?03:59
fsmithredthat's what it usually is04:05
fsmithredwith lvm04:05
fsmithredno not set root04:06
fsmithredset root=(hd1,msdos1) probably04:06
fsmithredfor the boot partition04:06
fsmithredon the linux line...04:07
fsmithredlinux /vmlinuz-<version> ro root=/dev/mapper/vg-lg04:07
free_rabbitfsmithred: ah ok! what is that ro for?04:09
fsmithredbrb phone04:11
free_rabbitYA! it works! =D04:11
free_rabbitthx so much!04:12
fsmithredoh, good04:12
fsmithredthe read-only mount is temporary. It switches to read-right before it's done booting04:13
fsmithredor read-wrong04:13
free_rabbitthe right to read tongue-twister04:13
free_rabbitsounds like something in a theme park04:14
EHeMThough if you split the /var and /home filesystems off of your root filesystem, it is quite possible to have the root filesystem mounted read-only during normal operations.04:14
free_rabbit"Everyone everyone! Get in the right to read read-write-wrong... ehrr whatever tongue twister!"04:15
free_rabbitEHeM: yes they are splitted04:15
free_rabbiti can create files everywhere: touch /testfile04:18
free_rabbitso it seems that is not read only04:19
free_rabbitand when i wont that process i carried out not, theb i have to add these lines on a specific place in the grub config right?04:21
free_rabbitthen flashing the flash chip again with that edited grub.cfg inside04:22
fsmithredyou might be able to add the lines to grub.cfg automatically.04:27
fsmithredboot the flagship and run update-grub04:27
fsmithredif the usb is plugged in, grub should fin...04:28
fsmithrednever mind04:28
fsmithredit won't find it if it's encrypted04:28
fsmithredadd a menuentry to /etc/grub.d/40_custom04:28
fsmithredin flagship04:28
fsmithredthen run update-grub04:28
free_rabbit/etc/grub do not exist i need to change the configureation file and reflashing it.04:33
fsmithredwhat linux is flagship?04:33
free_rabbitbut no problem, thats what i need to done anyway, because i want to make a full disk encryption and using the vesa rom this time.04:34
free_rabbitwhat do u mean with flagship?04:34
fsmithredyour main linux installation04:34
fsmithredok, then /etc/grub.d/ should exist and have a few files in it.04:35
free_rabbitim not shure if i understand sorry X)04:35
free_rabbitno i didnt install a bootloader with the devuan installer04:35
fsmithredhow many linux installations are on your computer?04:35
free_rabbitgrub is inside the flash chip on my mainboard04:36
fsmithredoh, I assumed you had another linux on the hard drive04:36
free_rabbitno =)04:36
free_rabbitwhen you falshing libreboot you get libreboot as a bootloader and grub as a payload on you mainboard flash chip04:37
free_rabbitso you can make full disk encryption04:37
free_rabbitno one can easily manipulate you /boot partition and if anyone wnat to manipulate your grub he/she needs to flash the chip again but with the correct grub config entries to boot your system after that, and when you set a grub password... he or she wont be able to see those config04:39
free_rabbiti think thats a very cool security feature =>04:39
free_rabbitHAH! Take THIS NSA!!1!04:40
fsmithredoh, they'll just wait until to boot up to read your disk04:41
* free_rabbit makes rude gestics in NSA direction04:41
free_rabbitlol X)04:41
free_rabbitbut where are they?04:41
* jonadab inserts a backdoor into the microcode on the CPU.04:41
fsmithredMaryland, I think.04:41
EHeMMore likely the NSA would call in the CIA to do some rubber hose cryptography.04:42
free_rabbitlol no i ment on my computer04:42
free_rabbitjonadab: i have a t60. when you libreboot it the me will be removed04:42
free_rabbitEHeM: ehat is rubber hose cryptography? o_004:43
fsmithredsame as wrench cryptography04:43
fsmithredI hit you until you tell me the password04:43
free_rabbitfsmithred: then i hit back, i do quanfa since over ten years ;)04:44
* GoatAvenger would prefer to be bruteforced with tickles04:44
free_rabbitfsmithred: =D04:45
furrywolfgoats, rabbits, tickles...  did I walk into another furry channel?  :)04:45
GoatAvengerwell, technically I'm not a creature of the forest04:45
GoatAvengeror rather, goats aren't04:45
fsmithredtime for sleep. see you all later04:46
free_rabbitGoatAvenger: good night04:46
jonadabGoatAvenger:  Unscratchable itch.04:46
free_rabbitfsmithred: bye and thx a lot again!04:47
free_rabbitoh wait the Goat isnt going to sleep X)04:47
jonadabWhich, many otherwise mundane itches can be made unscratcheable by simple dint of securing the hands behind the back.04:47
furrywolfand bondage too!04:48
free_rabbitim going to sleep now. thx to everyone who helped me out and have a nice day or night or what timezone ever you are in right now ^^06:21
gnu-noobhey all08:52
gnu-noobfinally giving devuan a try08:52
gnu-noobgot so tired of debian and systemd08:52
gnu-noobthis feels nice already08:52
gnarfacewelcome aboard08:56
LtWorfgnu-noob: by the way you can install sysvinit on debian too09:05
LtWorfi think (hope) the devuan fixes to init scripts and such get ported09:06
gnu-noobyeah i know but that isn't the point09:06
gnu-noobdebian is infected with a whole new generation of people that beleive a whole lot of wacky stuff09:07
gnu-noobdebian is no longer debian, it has been lobotomized by a cult09:07
golinuxLtWorf: sysvinit is default on Devuan.  It installs itself unless you chose another init09:07
LtWorfyou do know that most of the packages in devuan come from debian tho right?09:08
golinuxOops misread.  I'm tired09:08
gnu-noobLtWorf: indeed.  this is debian before the takeover by the whackjobs09:09
golinuxThere is currently debate in Debian whether inits other than systemd will continue to be supported.09:09
LtWorfah you're here to insult people, got it09:10
golinuxNot for discussion here though09:10
gnu-noobinsults cannot be given, they can only be taken09:10
LtWorfgolinux: i see. I guess not many users are using them and it gets even more difficult to support them without frequent bugreports or maintainers using it09:10
golinuxNo that's not it. Let's go to #debianfork09:11
gnu-noobgolinux: /join #debianfork09:11
LtWorfgolinux: well considering that 99% of people who make debian packages have nothing to do with the init in use, and considering that those packages are directly imported into devuan… i don't see what you're solving09:12
gnu-nooboops sorry09:12
golinuxLtWorf: Answered on #debianfork09:14
LtWorfsince i'm not there and irc isn't slack, i don't see what the point is :)09:14
golinuxWell, that ends this discussion,09:15
golinuxHere at least09:15
LtWorfI replied to you on another irc server09:16
gyrobalo /join #debianfork09:22
dabcMaybe daily offtopic talks can be avoided if the channel topic will mention that for general discussions about init systems there is #debianfork. But I don't know how exactly this should be put09:25
dabcI guess #debianfork should be mentioned anyway09:26
holycowi don't think you need to be too black and white about the rules as the traffic here is not going to be too big for quite a while09:34
holycowsomeone can just remeind everyone of the rules when things get out of hand like earlier which is usually just fine imho09:35
dabcand that has been happening pretty much every day lately09:36
holycowah.  i can see where you are coming from then.  makes sense.09:36
onefangWhen I woke up today, I saw there was almost 400 lines to catch up on in this channel.  The last few lines where something about furries and bondage.  I didn't bother reading all of those 400 lines to see if there was support stuff I could answer, or things I might learn.09:49
onefang"This is the Devuan discussion channel "  maybe change that to "This is the Devuan support channel, discussions go to #debianfork "?09:50
dabcit sounds fine09:58
holycowgood night.  thanks for all the work on devuan.10:54
toprohi there, since raspi is a somewhat officially (?!?) supported plattform for devuan, is there going to be a 64bit beowulf image for raspi 4? If yes, is that one already actively being worked on?14:18
HurgotronThere seems to be a slight difference between the xterm in Ubuntu 14.04 and the one in Devuan ascii which is not reflected in the version numbers (both 327-2). Something about multibyte UTF characters.14:24
Hurgotronah fuck, I always have problems which are so special no one is able to reproduce them anyway -.-14:25
free_speechwhich debian release is the base of devuan ascii ?14:30
free_speech'cause I have xterm 34414:30
free_speechdebian buster ...14:30
Hurgotronyaay I got it. Took me a while.14:32
onefangDevuan ASCII is based on Debian Stretch.14:33
free_speechand ... isn't ubuntu (version doesn't matter in my context) based on debian testing ?14:33
Hurgotronok, maybe it helps someone: I have mutt (text MUA) in screen running on my server. With ubuntu xterm everything is fine, with Devuan xterm the formatting was messed up here ebay has weird UTF8 icons in their subject lines.14:34
onefangUbunut is generally based on Debian testing.14:34
Hurgotronxterm -mk_width fixes this. I guess it's default for Ubuntu.14:35
Hurgotron(the issue doesn't show without screen, for some reason)14:35
fsmithredpretty sure ubuntu is based on unstable. I think they did one or two releases based on testing, long time ag.14:39
Wonkaalso, didn't ubuntu diverge quite some way from debian? For years now?14:53
onefangMost likely.14:54
james1138For any interested: The newest kernels are out along with their bug fixes -
nemoI thought at first it was a joke article17:40
nemoheh. the forum thread is funny17:41
fsmithrednot a joke, and if you want to talk about it, #debianfork is the right place17:41
golinuxnemo: What fsmithred said . . . please18:07
UsLanyone good with xfce in here? I lost my desktop. Panels are there but the desktop is gone with its menu and icons.20:00
UsLhappened after normal reboot20:01
UsL from xsession-errors. Canberra module stick out, but I don't know what it means20:02
james1138UsL: This may help with Xfce:
Hurgotron<james1138> UsL: This may help with Xfce:
UsLthanks Hurgotron. Looked through it but no luck really.20:47
fsmithredUsL, try moving .config/xfce log out and log in. That will make it like the first login. If it doesn't work, you can put the old dir back.20:48
UsLI'll try that.20:49
gnarfaceUsL: if that doesn't work, make sure you have libcanberra-gtk-module installed still20:50
UsLwhat is canberra-module? I did have it missing in the log20:50
gnarfacethat is all i'm going on.  i googled the error and that's the first suggested fix.20:50
UsLI'll try it20:51
gnarfaceif that turns out to be the issue though, you're probably gonna wanna figure out what you did that removed it20:51
gnarfaceit is not something that it would have done without warning you20:52
UsLhm, I only do apt update/upgrade and apt auto remove really. Never really mess with stuff. Have no time for that ; )20:53
gnarfacewell, when you do that there is sometimes a field clearly labeled as packages to be removed.  it's important to actually read that and not skim over it20:54
gnarfacethough in normal operation it is not expected to do this except during upgrades, or if you're adding packages from other repositories (even backports or other versions of devuan)20:55
UsLI have main contrib and non-free20:55
gnarfaceit should only add or upgrade packages during normal operation as long as you stick with the official devuan repo and don't mix 3rd party packages in.20:55
UsLonly security backports I think.20:56
gnarfacecontrib and non-free shouldn't change that on stable - for testing and unstable your mileage may vary20:56
gnarfacethis type of stuff happens all the time to testing and unstable actually20:56
UsLI'll try with a fresh .config/xgce4 and see what happens20:56
gnarfacei should have started by confirming you're still on ascii20:56
UsLI'll need to save my beautiful panels somehow first20:57
UsLI am stil on ascii  : )20:57
gnarfaceyou could alternately just make a whole new user20:57
UsLbeen smooth sailing for 1½ year now20:57
gnarfaceor a backup of the entire home directory of that user20:57
fsmithrednew user is probably the easiest20:57
UsLyeah. I'll tinker with it20:57
UsLthanks for helping20:58
gnarfaceanything bad that is only happening to one user is almost certainly a corruption in that user's private configuration20:58
gnarfaceif you can figure out what and prove it wasn't self-inflicted, then you have good info for a bug report that might even be taken seriously by upstream20:59
UsLyeah, If I'll get illuminated in the process that is   : )20:59
UsLsee you on the other side20:59
gnarfacegood luck20:59
UsLthanks for helping fsmithred and gnarface21:00
nemooh. speaking of ascii. is the new release coming up soon?21:15
gnarfacenemo: no official word on that yet21:18
gnarfacepeople are already using beowulf though21:18
gnarfacei wouldn't recommend it, but people are21:19
nemognarface: I'm not about to try that on work servers so am not in a big rush21:20
nemognarface: however my SO's laptop could benefit from the kernel update21:20
nemoright now I'm manually cramming in a fixed kernel21:21
gnarfacenemo: you can get the same kernel from ascii-backports safely21:21
nemooh? finally?21:21
nemoI checked it semiobsessively for like a year21:21
nemothen gave up21:21
gnarfaceuh... for a few months now21:21
gnarfacewait, which kernel do you need?21:21
nemoI'll do that when I get back home21:21
gnarface4.19 is new enough right?21:21
gnarfaceor did you need the 5.2 one?21:21
nemoummmm let me check to see if the machine is active21:21
nemocan tell you real quick21:21
nemoYES. 4.19 will work beautifully21:22
gnarface4.19 is in ascii-backports, that solves driver issues for a lot of people21:22
nemoif I wasn't on my way home right now anyway, I'd update it immediately remotely21:22
nemognarface: yeah, after a bit of nagging, a debian kernel maintainer thoughtfully enabled the flag I needed21:23
nemobut getting the kernel patch he'd provided into stable debian was taking a looooong time21:23
nemothought I'd have to wait for the new devuan release21:23
nemoI've been maintaining a custom kernel on her machine for over a year now21:24
gnarfacelots of people are regularly in that position, so they created backports.  always remember to check there first21:24
nemooh for sure21:24
nemoI'd been checking like every week or two...21:24
nemothen every month21:24
nemoand as time rolled on kinda gave up21:25
gnarfacei think there might be some mailing list you can get on actually21:26
gnarfacenot sure about that21:26
gnarfacei thought there was an announcement list for package builds21:26
gnarfaceor repo submissions or whatever21:26
gnarfacelike from debian not devaun21:26
nemowell. I'd tracked the package creation, it was it showing up in backports that was taking forever21:27
nemoI guess writing a monitor script would've worked21:27
UsLsolution was to type 'xfdesktop' in a terminal and hit enter.21:55
UsLI am dead inside now.21:55
UsL: )21:55
gnarfacehmm.  xfdesktop4 - Xfce desktop background, icons and root menu manager?22:00
gnarfaceis that just a userspace daemon that should have been started automatically for him?  i still don't feel like we know what caused this issue.22:00
gnarfacemy hypothesis remains that something important got deleted or removed22:01
gnarfacebut it is not clear if this was a self-inflicted problem or not22:01
fsmithredyeah, xfdesktop should start without user intervention22:02
holycowhi all22:03
gnarfacehi holycow22:03
holycowanyone here have devuan virtualized on qemu and working with gpu passthrough on a radeon gpu?22:04
gnarfacenever tried it, but that is a thing that should work22:04
holycowi think the gpu firmware is not loading properly22:04
gnarfacedid you get the amd firmware package from non-free?22:05
holycowi tried firmware from debian repos to test but kernel crashes on boot22:05
holycowgnarface: i did indeed22:05
gnarfaceare you in ascii, using the ascii-backports kernel?22:06
holycowascii but not using backported kernel22:06
climbingturtleI did try it on Devaun at first, but did not get i to work. I tried Fedora and got it to work. But I probably could'nt get i to work in devuan cuse I did not had the knowledge at the time.22:06
gnarfaceholycow: this firmware package, right? firmware-amd-graphics-20161130-522:06
holycowthat is the one, correct22:07
holycownot using backported kernel though22:07
gnarfaceholycow: which radeon card?22:07
holycowr9 280x22:07
gnarfaceso a new one22:08
gnarfacei have a couple theories22:08
holycowwell kinda, its supported by the radeon drivers not amd-gpu22:08
gnarfacecan you dig the exact firmware loading error out of dmesg?22:08
holycowsure one sec22:08
gnarfacethis is on the host we're dealing with first, right?22:09
gnarfacegotta make sure it works right for the host before addressing any guest issues22:09
gnarfacepaste the relevant section of dmesg at paste.debian.net22:10
gnarfacebut i'm thinking you might need the backport kernel, which would mean you need to make sure to get that firmware package from backports too22:10
gnarfaceit might need bug fixes that didn't make it into the stable kernel22:11
gnarfacebut i also seem to remember someone with similar hardware finding out they also needed firmware-linux-free or firmware-linux-nonfree22:11
holycowi installed those as well22:12
holycownote: i am typing from the actual devuan guest, i removed the virtual gpus22:12
gnarfacehmm. ok22:12
holycownote: i have about a dozen virtual machiens (mostly debian) getting amd r9 280x gpu passthrough just fine22:13
gnarfaceok.  same exact hardware?22:13
holycowsame exact hardare, correct.  all running on same host.22:13
gnarfaceok.  good to know.22:13
gnarfacethat narrows it down to a probable permission or package version/installation issue22:14
holycowbasically debian just needs the radeon driver and the amd firmware package22:14
holycowi think so too22:14
gnarfacebut that's debian current stable right?22:14
holycowcurrent stable correct22:14
gnarfacethey're on stable sooner right now, so note that they'll have newer kernel versions than devuan ascii22:15
gnarfaceif that's the key difference, then the ascii-backports kernel should be what you need22:15
holycowwith devuan firmware the system does boot up and i can see the cli login via spice22:15
gnarface(or alternately you can use this as an opportunity to test devuan beowulf)22:15
holycowwith debian firmware the kernel crashes on boot22:15
holycowi was thinking i may need to recompile the kernel22:15
gnarfacerebuilding the kernel could work too but in theory someone has already done that work for you in ascii-backports22:16
holycowis this correct? --> deb <release codename>-backports main22:17
gnarfacewell it only exists for ascii but yes22:17
gnarfacesome day that will also exist for beowulf22:17
holycowk, lets see what happens22:17
gnarfacedeb ascii-backports main contrib non-free22:18
gnarfacedeb ascii-backports main contrib non-free22:18
gnarfaceeither of these should work ^22:18
gnarfacedon't forget the non-free part for firmware-amd-graphics22:19
gnarfacethose firmware packages are not intended to be interchangeable, they go along with specific kernel version packages22:19
gnarfacebut you will want to avoid getting *everything* from backports because the stuff in there just isn't as thoroughly tested22:20
holycowright right22:20
holycowgnarface: thank you kindly for the tips.  disconnecting, time to do some testing22:23
kahiruhey, I've read that "openrc is now an option at installation". Yet when I tried an install, there was no such option. Is it somewhere hidden and I need to look carefully?22:27
gnarfacekahiru: choose expert mode22:27
kahiruI see22:28
kahiruhere we go again22:28
fsmithrednear the beginning of the install22:28
fsmithredthere's a whole list of extra things to choose22:28
fsmithredopenrc is in that list22:28
kahiruis in in the graphical installer as well?22:28
fsmithredshould be22:28
fsmithredthey are the same22:29
gnarfaceNOT the "live" one though22:29
kahiruthis should probably be written somewhere22:29
fsmithredit might be in the install instructions22:30
fsmithrednope. The install guide (the one with the pictures) is for a regular install.22:32
kahiruwell either I'm blind, doing something wrong or its not in the graphical installer22:32
fsmithredyou weren't presented with a list of extra components to add?22:33
kahiruoh I see22:33
kahirugrub > advanced options > graphical expert install, not some kind of "i know what I'm doing" withotu the installer itself22:34
kahiruthat's a bit hidden, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction22:40
Di0genesWhere does Devuan install
gnarfaceDi0genes: varies by architecture.  if you have it installed and you're trying to find it, just run this: dpkg -S liblmdb.so23:47

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